Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

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VOTE: Mumble

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Day 1 can be useful, especially for looking back on later in the game. Vote Mumble with us to get a wagon going and stir some reactions. As far as I'm concerned, the faster we get out of RVS the better, and wagons are the best way to do that.

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But why, instead of having a wagon of 2 we could have a wagon of 3

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But why, instead of having a wagon of 2 we could have a wagon of 3

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Now this is a wagon I can get behind.

VOTE: Havo

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I agree, help me wagon Havo instead.

Havo, why are you advocating your own wagon here? Not that I'm disagreeing with the sentiment, just wondering

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What is that, L-2 I think?

Hey i'm awoo. Last time I played mafia I got pretty stressed out and overthought things a lot which caused my reads to go into the toilet, so I'm gonna be taking it easy this time around.
Also of 5 games I played in my faction lost every time, until this one, which I managed to win.

VOTE: Havo

Either my reading comprehension is terrible or you're saying you already won this game.

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When did he self vote?

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I don't want to argue on Havo's behalf, but I've seen self-votes do good for your faction. I still can't believe that gambit you pulled worked, Riggs.

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I don't want to argue on Havo's behalf, but I've seen self-votes do good for your faction. I still can't believe that gambit you pulled worked, Riggs.

Wait...which one?

I don't remember the exact game, and I was only spectating anyway I think. But you self voted which put you at L-1 iirc, then everyone on your wagon proceeded to unvote. And I'm pretty sure you were scum lol

So anyway, Cedrick, what are your thoughts on joining the Havo wagon? Let's get to L-1 on page 2, that'd be great.

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Also

@mod, vote count please

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I don't want to policy lynch you, I want to real lynch you, if I think you should be lynched. Which I don't necessarily think, yet.

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I want to spark some debate, get people stirred up. And I want to see how people interact with the wagon.

Right now we've got:
fitz
Zito
Lexa
numberQ (me)
Awoo
Riggs

on the wagon

oh hey, we are at L-1, unless I missed an unvote.

WE'RE AT L-1, FOLKS

What do you think of the people who jumped on your wagon, Havo?

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Wait, nevermind. Not sure why I thought fitz was on Havo, he voted Mumble.

FALSE ALARM, FOLKS, STILL L-2

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What resolution are you waiting for?

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What resolution are you waiting for?

Either town realizes my Disclaimer isn’t A.I. and is okay with me staying in the game, thus removing their votes

Or I get lynched. In which case if I happen to be around during twilight I’ll give my thoughts. If not then .....

C’est la vie.

Makes sense I guess. I just think we've got a fair amount of talking points already. For example, fitz caught Lexa in a contradiction and Awoo clearly thinks my behavior is self evident enough to vote me without explanation.

Everyone who was or is on Havo's wagon: why were you or are you on Havo's wagon? None of those votes looked random, so why'd you do it? I'm on it because I wanted to form a wagon so I could ask questions like this.

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Has anyone played with Cedrick before? His opener of digging into Havos game history is interesting and I'm curious if anyone has seen him put in that degree of effort in a scum game in the past.

Never played with him before, but I don't put much stock in meta. It has its place I suppose, but in general I prefer going off of what happens in this game. Cedrick's meta investigation against Havo was circumstantial and lacked context, and I don't think your current meta investigation against Cedrick is going to uncover anything worthwhile. Would a previous scum game of his where he put in this exact amount of effort make him more suspicious in your eyes?

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Intent to hammer at L-3, beautiful. So you're convinced he's scum? Is that entirely because of the self-vote/self-hammer thing?

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I'm gonna have to side with Havo on this one. I think there are specific scenarios where self-voting can be beneficial to your wincon, and I don't mean bastard roles like jesters and the like. It's the same difference as between a regular vote and regular hammer. And clearly you understand that difference because you stated intent to hammer, but you're not voting him to bring him closer to that hammer.

Also, why are we arguing the merits of self-voting? I'm more interested in why Cedrick would hammer Havo but doesn't want to vote him.

PEDIT: @northsidegal, I dunno, shits and giggles? Haven't decided where I want to move my vote yet. Now that we're talking about real stuff I don't have as much reason to use my vote as a talking point.

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And lol @ Lexa asking for meta on a 2 day old account, I didn't even catch that.

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The wagon and the reactions are there, feel free to analyze. I've been asking questions and participating in conversations that have spawned directly off of Havo's wagon. My vote accomplished what I wanted it to do, who knows, maybe the little guy can accomplish even more if I leave it where it is.

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- Asking a lot of unnecessary questions 34, seems like the only purpose of that is to """be town""" or show concern for the game

Asking for clarification on something I'm confused on is trying to show concern for the game?

- Doesnt understand that im going to win the game 31

Oh yeah I forgot my bad

- 71 [talking about self voting] [Also, why are we arguing the merits of self-voting?] more useless posts why??

Yeah that whole argument line probably was useless, that's why I pointed that out in my post and turned attention back on Cedrick's statements.

- 72 @Q ok what do you make of this? is it AI? because there are votes on lexa, so what do you think of that?

I didn't really make anything of it, seemed to me that Lexa also didn't notice the account was 2 days old. The off-siter comment is weird as hell though. I think it pairs well with north's comment about the meta question being out of the blue and possibly indicative of scum-buddying.

-74 - doing it again "look at me ive been asking those questions and analyzing" - you shouldnt have to bring this up. your ""townyness"" is being shoved in my face so much that I am forced to question your motivations!

Out of context, sure, but I was directly replying to north implying I wasn't doing anything with my aggressive wagoning of Havo.

@north, is there another reason for your vote other than weird interactions with Cedrick? If not, why Lexa and not Cedrick?

In fact I'm gonna vote Ced, pending his explanation for the hammer-but-no-vote comment.

VOTE: Cedrick

PEDIT:

Good case

You mean first case. Didn't you jump on the Havo wagon too, at the first sign of any momentum?

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I think it's a pretty good vote. Do you think his actions aren't vote-worthy?

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^ that was to Awoo

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You know the feeling you get when something is so nondescript it stands out to you? Basically that. The rest of the playerbase so farmostly have had something distinctive or defining about them. Not so much riggs. Hence, caught my notice, hence, thinking about if it's meaningful

This smells funny. Other players are more distinctive so Riggs is suspect? That doesn't make any sense.

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Was his vote on you not attached with game related reasoning? He quoted some of your posts, expressed confusion/doubt, and voted you.

PEDIT: This is where you said you were suspecting Riggs, maybe not in so many words but I'm not gonna get into a semantics argument. The point I was making is you were throwing him into doubt because he wasn't distinctive enough? If I'm understanding correctly.

With respect to Riggs I'm trying to determine if his entrance was genuine or not. His #26 seems towny on the surface from a tonal level but it's also the kind of vanilla entrance I've seen scum do practically every game; I'm trying to decide if there's more to read below the surface or not which is why I wanted your thoughts, to see if I was the only one it concerned.

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VOTE: Lexa
(putting the vote first kinda ruins the flow of my post, but I'll make the sacrifice for the sake of the vote counter)

I think Mumble came away from that argument looking a lot better than Lexa. tbh I found both initial votes slightly strange, but Lexa's was a reaction that only later got any justification, and it was fairly weak justification too. If I'm understand it right, their vote was for Mumble's weak entrance to the game, fair enough. But then they switched to Alex after that argument made Mumble look more towny, I guess? Lexa never said why, except they "can't see mafia being this obtuse". And the Alex vote is in spite of several other even weaker, naked-er votes in the game. Why did you not go after those posts, Lexa?

As for the OMGUS stuff, it can certainly be scummy in context, though I guess it depends on your definition of OMGUS and let's not have another semantics argument please. The point is, Mumble explained why Lexa's vote on him was scummy, and it made more sense to me than Lexa explaining why they voted him.

mumbles push looks bad to me and omgus isn’t scummy. Mumbles did something mildly suspicious and got voted for it and it looks like he tried to put a townie spin on it. He should have known a reasonless vote hop on somebody was going to generate that kind of reaction. Lexa’s Reaction imo is normal

That's not my interpretation. I see it the exact opposite, that Lexa did something suspicious and is trying to put a townie spin on it. Particularly the poorly reasoned hop to Alex felt like scum with bad intentions.

Other things:

VOTE: Cedrick

lexa's speedwagon makes me iffy actually

Does it make you iffier than the Havo speedwagon?

Im actually going to make this public knowledge so no one can "townslip" this:

My first game was scum, and I was unable to post in the game due to the whole "alt detection" thing, but I was able to post in the scum PT pregame despite it.

How is that a townslip? If anything it would be a scumslip, or am I interpreting what you're saying wrong?

PEDIT: oh jesus this is what I get for walking away for a half hour while writing this post. I don't have time to read the last page and a half right now, I skimmed it and I don't think anything changes what I just wrote out.

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@mod, I think Lexa's at L-1, latest vote count is missing northsidegal's vote in 237.

Also I'm interested in Lexa's reaction to being at L-1. If you weren't under pressure with Mumble's vote, surely you are now.

That's not my interpretation. I see it the exact opposite, that Lexa did something suspicious and is trying to put a townie spin on it. Particularly the poorly reasoned hop to Alex felt like scum with bad intentions.

I’m actually surprised you feel that way. I’ve seen way more townies act like that instead of scum. Scum try to remain calm where as townies typically act based on emotions. That seemed like an emotional reaction to me.

I've seen it both ways, scum can get emotional too. What do you think about Lexa's vote on Alex at the end of that argument? I thought it looked like scum jumping off a conversation not going their way, wasn't too impressed with the apparent reasoning of trying to get Alex to post better.

(Lexa and Alex are anagrams of each other, scumteam confirmed)

What's everyone's thoughts on Luca Blight?

Apart from being a pretty good villain in Suikoden 2.

Kind of null to me. He's making some relevant observations, but that's pretty much all they are. I'm not seeing any real analysis from his posts. His read on rb in 178 is especially hilarious - he says rb's posting is very surface level, but I haven't seen any better from Luca himself in his 4 posts.

VOTE: Mumble

So far, mumble, as well as a couple others, have been rubbing me the wrong way reading their posts. Not sure on a lot of things at the moment, but this seems like a better idea than havo at the moment

Care to expand on “a couple others”?

Kinda hard to expand on them when I don't know why.

I just have "this doesn't sit well with me" type reactions on Awoo, Cedric, luca, lexa, and north

Not sure why, but I do

Any specific post or behavior from those on your suspect list you can point to as unsettling? You've gotta at least have some concrete thoughts on Mumble if that's where your vote is.

NSG, your theory relies on Cedrick and Lexa being scum partners. Not only is it way too early to get worked up about potential scumteams, don't you think scum would be mindful of how they communicate with their partners early in the game? I can't imagine a situation where Cedrick and Lexa have a conversation in the scum pt about how they both play on a different site, and then Lexa goes straight in the thread and greets him as a '

fellow off-siter

'.

It was an interesting and worthwhile observation, but putting so much stock in it as you have done seems ridiculous to me.

As for Cedrick being too experienced to make the 'pre-game' comment - I agree with rb that, regardless of his experience, there is no way to know if he genuinely intended to deceive with this comment. I'm pretty sure I've had a scum game in the past where the game had started before I even had a chance to post in the pt.

Bold part is from me, what makes the observation worthwhile if it's not worth putting stock in? How much stock is the limit before it starts getting ridiculous?

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What's everyone's thoughts on Luca Blight?

Why are you asking for thoughts on Luca over anyone else in the game?

Why are you asking about this post over everything else in the game?

But seriously, what are you hoping to gain from rb answering this?

Something about this posts feels weird, I'm going to copy Awoo's case against me and say fitz is asking a lot of questions so he looks town. I'm having trouble putting a scumhunting mindset behind most of his posts so far, 254 is just the most stand out example that caught my attention. 55 is somewhat of an exception, but it's only justifying a vote he already placed.

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@mod, please replace me

I feel shitty doing this but some real life issues have arisen recently and I'm not able to play mafia right now. Sorry, everyone.