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Screenplay's comments early in the phase about putting a player at L-1 and they will then auto hammer, followed up by some comments that attempt to justify that, concern me.
Later in the phase, they posted a strange list of reads that included the mod, and then also indirectly referred to Creature as 'null'. When these reads were questioned, provoked a vote on Creature who had just been prodded.
To me a vote on one of Screenplay's supposed scum reads would have been more natural; this looks like a reactionary vote attempting to divert focus to an afk player (that is less likely to defend themselves) rather than a real effort at scumhunting.
UNA's 142 vote on a claimed town PR with no counter claims concerned me at a strategic level.
The post itself did not ping me as scummy. However given that this is a semi-open setup that will become increasingly more open as the game goes on, this kind of claim appears too dangerous for scum to have made.
Anybody sitting down and thinking about it for more than about ten seconds would realise this.
So I think this says interesting things about UNA's alignment and I'm more inclined to believe trigger-happy town than scum-trying-to-get-a-cheap-mislynch at this time.
Almost50's troubling posts later on aside, I'm inclined to believe the claim for now.
I initially strongly liked Mutant's 147 post and they abandoned it pretty much immediately as soon as Almost50 posted their previous crumbing efforts. It came shortly after UNA's post and feels like an opportunistic vote - but - there was some effort in the post initially so I don't really believe this is the case. Probably indicative of town!mutant.
Almost50s vote on mutant feels bad because he's directing town to do various things. These kinds of posts always make me feel like its scum trying hard to do what's best for town or straight up appeal to emotion. I don't like it. He doubles down in 163 but later switches to Screenplay.
I enjoy Lego's 249. I appreciate the wagon analysis and an attempt to understand the motivation behind why players do things. Strong town post.
Subsequently I disagree with Skitter's 265 and do wonder the motivation behind it.
I like UNA's 271 and it very strongly captures everything that I feel wrong with Mutant's 147. I'm town reading UNA from this post.
Reads
Town
Almost50 - currently believing claim. Some posts concerning.
Skitter - a lot of posts that are actively engaging with other players. Probably indicative of town.
Espeonage - a lot of posts that are actively engaging (and disagreeing) with other players. Posts feel like they are advancing game state.
Lego - I like a lot of Lego's posts - they are actively looking at the game state and trying to assess the motivation behind players actions. Almost certainly town.
UNA - I liked UNA's analysis of Mutant and I haven't really seen anything bad from UNA all game. Probably town.
To Sort
Montosh - a lot of posts but nothing really attracted my attention. Needs ISO.
theworst - no posts pinged me as scummy, but has not elevated themselves to town yet.
mutant - null here but leaning town. I do like the post they made but generally agree with everything UNA wrote about that big wall post. Other content is generally town though. SO null because undecided, not because no presence.
Scum
Creature - I'm concerned that Creature was active very early in the phase but didn't throw down an RVS vote and their posts seemed to talk about the game rather than engage with players. That looks like scum MO to me.
not_mafia - a number of posts but they all feel very distant and not really engaging at all. Holistic playstyle feels indicative of somebody not really trying to become one with the town block.
Screenplay - as noted. Also response to being at L-1 is to panic and attack the most recent vote instead of claiming or doing anything town alignment indicative.
Elmo - doesn't really exist. See Not mafia. Also interestingly voted not_mafia in RVS then shortly after switched away. Many posts with no real content.
Since I am sure it will come up, I'll clarify. I was not reaction testing - I genuinely believed that was an L-1 vote, and I just miscounted because there were a number of votes between the last vote count and my own.
Screenplay/Jay - let's be civil, name-calling leads to modkills.
Screen
Math. A pretty good town player.
Math is not a player in this game.
Your list of reads is a little difficult to parse. Can you confirm for me if this is what you meant?
Scum:
Jay
Lego
Sky
Null:
A50
Elmo
Montosh/Mutant (presumably both since you have them mixed up)
Not Mafia
Town:
Espeonage
Skitter
UNA
Worst
You included Sky/Reaper and Jay/Creature twice each so I've taken the liberty of consolidating them in the same slot. You at least didn't switch your alignment read based on the player, which would have been interesting ^_~
I'm pretty sure for Creature in particular actively choosing to ignore the game while being active onsite elsewhere *is* the scumtell. Like I'm pretty it's not that Screen happened to pick Creature, one of the group of AFK players, so much as he thinks Creature ignoring the game makes him more significantly more likely to be scum.
In my catch-up I skimmed through and I seemed to recall somebody saying that Creature was generally absent all over the site and that him flaking this game was therefore not AI. I may be mistaken, but that's the reason why I feel a vote against Creature for the reason of being afk is poor. I do think that Creature's initial posts were holistic and the lack of RVS vote despite being present raised flags.
I'm not sure what you're asking me to clarify here? I rather disliked that Lego post because it continued a general pattern of waffling from him.
You said that Lego was waffling and pushing votes on afk players; I disagreed because I feel that Lego's voting analysis is on point. YMMV, I enjoy players explaining why they think certain things.
I wondered why you picked up Lego for this; at the time Lego was voting for Screenplay and your post says he was pushing an afk slot. That's not my interpretation of it.
Could you please clarify your position on Lego at this time?
And both replacements coming in and wanting to vote / voting Screen is part of the reason why I'm getting this overall vibe of complecancy that's making me kinda wary of the wagon. Like it's an easy push to make for both of them to make, and a lot of people are just vote-parking the wagon and it's feeling kinda off/stale/complacent at this point.
Which of the votes against Screen do you dislike and why?
It looks like I missed that point re: Creature in my catch up. In that event I could abide by a policy vote from Screen against Creature for targeted inactivity.
My main hesitation is that I think I might be conflating new-ness with scumminess.
I'll look into that and get back to you with my further thoughts.
people replacing in are complacent with it. Like there's too much consensus, and it feels wrong in this gamestate for this many people to be OK with it.
My main thoughts on Screen are that the slot has gone through a bit of a melt down in the last 24 hours and that's always interesting to see. I do think that the votes against Screen are largely justified. If Screen is scum, I am imagining Lego as the scum counter wagon - when I was reading catch-up I seemed to recall votes appearing for Lego at around the same time.
I am not against a quickhammer on day 1; in every game I can ever recall playing, the first wagon of the day was usually on scum. I don't enjoy the prospect of Not Mafia hammering before Screen gets a chance to claim however.
I'm somewhat invested in the fact that he twice townread Math? Anytime somebody is caught out with their reads it insta-points to them having fabricated their reads, and lynch-all-liars is one of the hardest policies to argue against. I'd like to have more than this though. One factor I'm adding to this is his comments about planning to hammer anybody who got to L-1 and not attribute any malice or reasoning to it. To me this looks like a message that this player is the scum traitor, and that he wants some way of communicating to his buddies so that they don't accidentally shoot him. So yes, I think this implies that scum did not recruit traitor!screen.
Note that Not Mafia has exactly the same MO (hammer at L-1) and he is also in my scum reads list ^_~ However, NM hasn't been caught getting his reads wrong - twice.
There's like no resistance to it, and a whole bunch of people I find null or scummy seem to want it, and people replacing in are complacent with it. Like there's too much consensus, and it feels wrong in this gamestate for this many people to be OK with it.
So now we have Screen at L-1 and this is the point where I expect to see movement. It seems you're the only one against it so far.
IMO Town at this point would rather claim than 1v1 though.
Just a thought: If Srceen is scum then that means Jay is probably the scum's counter wagon and hence FoS on skitter and the worst. (Doesn't mean they are definitely both scum but I do think they should be looked into and pressured over it).
That was my first thought but I think it's incredibly unlikely the scum team would throw their entire game in the bag just to save Screen (assuming team of Skitter/Worst/Screen). The sudden emergence of Jay as the designated counter wagon with those three on it isn't meaningful at this point I think. All of these votes are somewhat credible - Skitter has made their misgivings clear and iirc Worst said something about it as well.
Would appreciate an explanation for Espeonage's vote though.
Earlier you gave the impression that you would hammer if a wagon was at L-1. You haven't really done anything this phase except fail to follow through.
I think interactions around Screen are probably more interesting than Jay, particularly Skitter/Not Awful.
The whole interaction between Jay/Screen suddenly going for a 1v1 is super strange though and I do feel strongly there is scum between the two of them. I am not averse to a lynch on either slot.
I would be keen for a Not Mafia lynch at present as he is deliberately avoiding meaningful discussion. This is a clear distinction from passive lurking and actively evasive behavior.
Probably if I was the vig I would hit that slot tonight.
I need to look at Mutant closely and see what I think of that supposed scum claim. I'm away most of today though so for now
VOTE: Not Mafia
Screen has had his time in the sun and the meltdown while close to lynching was interesting, but, he seems to have mostly settled down now. I'd like to shine a light on NM and see what his shadow looks like.
Basically a prod dodge post. I have a job interview in about 48 hours and I need to focus for that. I'll be around and able to read posts but don't expect any walls from me until then.
Looks like I have some time today so I'll be going through my reads again. In particular I am interested in sorting Mutant as I think I earlier had them at null and now they are at L-1 so a decision one way or the other is required.
Probably need a claim from Mutant but at this stage I am not interested in hammering.
Note this is our third wagon iirc if we have another town PR come out we may be better off just mass claiming and lynching from among counterclaims/VTs.
Actually I am really concerned about Una's vote of Mutant. I'm looking at Una's ISO now and it looks fairly opportunistic with lots of trivial reads with little follow through. I'll give more in depth shortly.
by the way, i'm skeptical towards the idea that the pr claims will "resolve themselves".
I presume the argument is that since the game is semi-open, if the claims are fake, this will become immediately obvious when scum accidentally kill the real roled town.
e.g. the maximum number of town roles in the game are:
- Goon Cop
- Roleblocker
- Tracker
- Bodyguard
- Vigilante
Because Innocent Child was not declared, it's not in the game. With 13 players, 2 scum + 1 traitor, that leaves a minimum of three vanilla town slots, one of which is claimed by Screen presently.
Scum know exactly how many roled town there are, and therefore, how many VT's there are. However, town will become aware of this mid-game once the number of players gets too low to support the claims.
EG if we have no other claims reported, and all the claimed players are alive once the player base is down to 8 players, then there are three scum among the six not-roled town, and with Screen's VT claim, there are two scum in the remaining five slots. At the time, town demands a mass claim and lynch counterclaims (hint - scum will all claim VT) and we lynch among the vanilla town. At this point scum are forced to hit A50 and Jay to keep the vanilla town lynch pool as large as possible.
The more picks scum made at night 0, the more difficult their late game will become. They need to kill off the town PR's as soon as possible to have a chance in mid-late game.
That's why people are saying the night roles will 'sort themselves out'. If they're still around after about night 3 then scum probably lose.
While scum know the number of roled town, they don't know what those roles are. So when they fake claim, there is a chance they claim a role that town actually has.
That is why I am inclined to believe Almost50 and Jay's claims. They did so not knowing what roles are already out there and may have been counterclaimed. That's a big risk. If they were scum fake claims, it would have been safer to claim VT. That is why I I put more faith in Jay and Almost50's claims than Screen's claim.
Now those claims are out there and have not been counterclaimed. We know there are at least two town power roles because of the setup. If there are only two power roles, then scum could now safely fake claim those power roles. However, the roles they would have to claim are strictly governed by what's left -
- Goon Cop
- Roleblocker
- Tracker
- Bodyguard
- Vigilante
The remaining three roles have abilities that must be reported and are powerful roles that, if they are in town hands, must be dealt with by scum in one way or the other. So if somebody claims day 3 while they are at L-1 that they are the vigilante, and have not shot, or that they are the goon cop/tracker and only have results that are on obv town, they are probably scum fake claims.
It is by no means guaranteed. The claims are not automatic town clears. However the fact that they came out and have not been counter claimed, and they claimed first, is good enough imo to trust that the claims are legit. And if they are not, then both players blind guessed correctly a 3/5 chance. I would not commit my game to a dice roll, and I feel confident in saying most players would not do so either.
let me ask you this – you were scumreading jay before the claim, yes?
Yes, I had scum read Jay for their previous slot - Creature. I hadn't really seen anything from Jay to improve their position, and the 1 v 1 against Screen seemed unneeded and strange. Nothing from Jay really strikes me as town, and their performance since being out of the lynch's way seems disinterested and vague. The claim is the only reason I don't have them in my scum pile, and if anything were to come up to question that claim, I'd be happy to vote there again later.
I think because players (myself included) shy away from lynching claimed town PR's on day 1 before we have other evidence (e.g. vote count analysis, night results, etc) to use against the claim. Revisit this topic day 2 with some night results and a flip or three and there might be more traction.
Screen was my preferred lynch but both Screen and Jay (along with NM and your predecessor) were in my 'probably scum' pool. I thought at the time Screen's behavior was more scum AI than Jay but I still saw Jay as scummy and would not have been upset with a lynch at that time.
Wagon analysis. Will bear more interesting fruit day 2 once we have some flips. For now it's mainly interesting in looking for unexplained voting blocks or strange votes that could be investigated.
Progression of votes. Players who have replaced out have had their names filled in with the new players for ease of reading.
I'm interested in strange voting patterns - players that regularly vote together (blocks), players that change their vote frequently (wagon hopping), players that join wagons late (scum getting in on a mislynch), players that vote park and make no effort to secure a lynch (pretending to be active), empty unvotes (town are always looking to improve their vote, scum have to fake it) and any other thing that jumps out.
Note that even though we've had three players at L-1 during the phase, for most of the game votes have been spread out over four+ players. I think that is highly unusual - players usually seem to congeal around two or three slots and for us to be all over the place like this likely indicates the lack of a strong town block. This is super strange to me given that we have two claimed town PRs (Jay and Almost50) who are confirmed town until counterclaim. You two should be working together because you have no reason to doubt the other persons claim at this stage....right?
Spoiler:
northsidegal - No interesting vote interactions. Voted on Screen early on and stayed there even after the wagon dismantled. Vote is not really AI as we haven't seen NSG make a vote of her own, presumably as she's still catching up (just finished now) and I'm interested to see where she does vote. Cut many times by strongly implying she's going after Jay, long after the wagon fell apart, which I think is meaningful.
jaydragonking - Initial votes afk because Creature slot. First vote on to Screen wagon (which then emerged as counterwagon), and then on to Mutant.
Players who wagon hopped with Jay - Una, Almost50, the worst. Less AI as Screen was a counterwagon to Jay.
Screenplay - vote switches a lot. Initial votes on Lego, then NSG, then Lego, then 1v1 to Jay. Latest vote puts Mutant at L-1. Jay countervote not AI although the manner in which it happened was odd - request for 1v1 and players obliged.
I am suspicious of these votes and the latest vote for Mutant. Screen was super active while they had votes against them, and since the activity has switched away from Screen, has taken it easy.
the worst - several empty unvotes. Most votes alongside Skitter and semi-regularly Almost50, big chunks of time with votes on nobody. Was NOT on Screen's wagon, but WAS on Jay's wagon. Suspicious and need to examine Worst posting history at this time and see Worst/Skitters justification for this.
Espeonage - Early votes for claimed town PR ( ... ) which is probably scum. Was on both Screen and Jay's wagons for large periods of time at critical moments e.g. putting them at L-1. Now back to voting uncounterclaimed town. No real effort to advance lynch. Probably scum for this.
Not Mafia - vote parked Sky and done nothing all game/made no effort to interact with town or advance lynch. Players who have spent any amount of time voting with NM are Espeonage and NSG briefly.
almost50 - has been on all the wagons, but also spent some time on a few other players. Had been pushing for a mutant lynch earlier in the phase so this later shift to the wagon is consistent and probably AI of town, claim notwithstanding.
mutant -
This troubling vote block at 150:
♣ Almost50 (3): Espeonage, UnaBombaH, mutantdevle
Concerns me.
Mutant empty unvoted while he was at three votes and failed to vote on the Screen wagon and called everybody on it sheep.
Has failed to have a vote for almost the entire game. Probably indicative of scum MO.
UNA - Initial vote on A50, then empty unvote, then votes for mutant. Did not join Screen wagon (threatened to hammer but failed to do so), voted for Jay (L-2), now voting for mutant. Would have expected some comment when they revoted Mutant how they'd always been scumreading this slot etc etc. ISO is short and all over the shop. Feels like scum. Strange interactions with Not Mafia.
Skitter - Players Skitter has voted for: Screenplay, Lego, mutant, UnaBomber, Jay. That's a lot of vote hops. Most votes with Worst/Almost50. MMmm.
I'm hard pressed to pick an alignment for Skitter based on voting history. There are a lot of votes but from the surface those votes appear accountable.
Lego - Empty unvote after RVS troubles me. Was early on the Screen wagon which made it a wagon but then unvoted/switched to Una, now empty unvote. A lot of time voting for nobody. This vote history is troubling.
Montosh - Vote parked on Screen the entire game, appears disinterested and unimpacted by others. Likely indicative of a player feeling disengaged/helpless. Could be scum traitor.
And with that I think that's everyone. So...
Feels like Espeonage/Una could be a scum pair.
I'm not convinced Screen is town even with the claim. Voting and posting history seems cloudy. A couple of my early town reads (Lego, Esp) now less convincing.
Summary:
Almost50 - confident town.
northsidegal - While I do like the entry, I want to see more than a focus on our claimed PRs.
Sky_Paladin - posts are sparse but excellent, the very pinnacle of what town should aspire to.
Jay - I like the claim but the rest is bad.
Not Mafia - player does not really exist. Deliberately trying to avoid engaging with players. Player feels less isolated than Montosh - probably scum traitor.
Espeonage - Not really trying to do anything and strangely pays attention to NM. Scumpooled.
Screenplay - As stated above, probably still scum.
the worst - some concerning interactions. I'm not confident that I'd lynch this but I'd like to revisit on day 2 with some flips and see where worst lines up on those votes.
mutant - probably scum. Am now more interested in hammer. However we have quite some time left so I'm not interested in doing that right now.
UnaBombaH - see Espeonage. Feels like there's links between these two players. Would like a flip here or on Esp.
skitter30 - I think probably town based on several good quality posts iirc and voting history, while sporadic, appears engaged. This is probably town mo.
Montosh - My pick for scum traitor. Slot needs to exist. Isolated players are unlikely to be scum pairs though so undecided for now.
legoboyvdlp - Concerning. I initially town read Lego for a number of good posts although the vote history is weak.
So -
Probably Town: Almost50/Jay/Skitter
Undecided: Northsidegal, the worst, lego, Montosh
Probably Scum: Screen, Espeonage, Una, Mutant, Not Mafia
So that's five players who I think are scum and I only get to pick 3, ugh.
In the world where Screen is scum - I'm probably picking Espeonage and Una as his buddies.
In the world where Mutant is scum - unsure. Probably still Espeonage and Una, but not Screen.
In the world where Espeonage is scum - probably scum with Una and either Screen or Mutant.
In the world where Una is scum - Espeonage and Not Mafia.
In the world where Not Mafia is scum - Espeonage and ???
Espeonage is coming across as scum in all of my imaginary teams so I think that's probably where I'll ISO next.
Let's say for a moment that one of Jay or Almost50 have in fact fake claimed a role that town already has, but town doesn't want to give themselves away by straight up counterclaiming them.
How do you think the town power role goes about getting a lynch on that player without giving themselves away?
I didn't - I chose Screen, who was at L-1 for quite some time, and then voted Not Mafia because I felt that player slot needed (and still needs) pressure. When I came back, the Screen wagon had fallen apart and Jay was at L-2. I felt that Jay was behaving very strangely for a player who had gone from just about to secure their preferred lynch to being the main lynch candidate, and that was in line with me scum reading the slot from earlier. So I voted and pushed for a claim and, well, here we are now.
I don't think the screen wagon had fallen apart at all – from my count, both screen and jay were at l-2, and you chose to put jay at l-1 and get a claim out of him instead of voting screen. To me, the fact that you did this instead of voting who your stated preferred lynch was seems like you were fishing for claims, hence voting the person who hadn't claimed over the one who had.
I'd voted Screen and he'd been at L-1 for nearly 72 hours and not hammered before the Jay wagon emerged. OK, the wagon had not 'fallen apart' - it had certainly stalled. We are splitting hairs. Here's my post -
Sky_Paladin
I’d like a claim from Jay and then a little time for us to consider the plausibility of said claim.
Screen is my
preferred lynch by a small margin, followed by NM, and Jay is third.
But all three are in my initial scum reads.
I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Yes, I scum read Jay (past tense). Yes, I believe his claim. Short of something coming up to make me question the claim, I'm probably not going to vote there again today.
Yes, I scum read Screen (post tense and present tense). I'd be happy to lynch that slot. If I'm choosing between Jay and Screen, I'd lynch Screen. There was a chunk of time where Screen calmed down that I started to doubt my scum read, but as time went on it became increasingly that Screen was no longer invested in hunting scum - his MO was stay in the game. That kind of selfish mindset I think usually comes from scum (but not always).
Yes, I put Jay at L-1, but I was not fishing for claims. I straight up asked for him to claim because he was at L-2 and his counter wagon - Screen - had already claimed. Either of which I would be happy to lynch. So I decided "Let's advance the game state" and push for a hammer. TBH I expected Jay to claim Vt and get hammered which I would have been OK with, but he claimed town PR, so I was :V well maybe we can lynch Not Mafia now?
Instead we have a Mutant wagon so I'm like sigh guess I'll do the iso.
To clarify on that last part – I've thought this through and I'm pretty sure that me not claiming anything is strategically a very good choice.
I am fine with that. My thoughts are that you look distressingly like a town PR that wants to counterclaim Jay without actually giving themselves away and if Almost50 spotted it right away, odds are everybody else did too.
In which case, you might as well claim and get the lynch done right today. That's the spirit behind my question.
I'm struggling to understand the basis for NSG push for you on day 1, and the only reason I can think of is that she's counterclaiming you, but doesn't want to counterclaim you.
Almost50 did put a good light on it though explaining NSG position so I'm not like scum reading her for it.
That is quite recent and Mutant's last post clearly indicates he believes players at L-1 should claim. The skeptic in me thinks this is him hoping the wagon will magically go away, while the optimist believes people can sometimes just be busy.
Intent to hammer in 24 hours if Mutant has not claimed.
Mutant and Screen are the only ones close to wagons and neither of them are worth lynching.
I'm not at all convinced this is true.
monty If you had to shoot one player RIGHT NOW who would it be and why?
Same question to you?
If it was me, I probably would pick Not Mafia for his deliberate refusal to engage meaningfully with players making him a liability; we can't have him in LYLO so he has to die earlier. However it's more because it's not alignment indicative - he's done nothing to look town, so choosing between him and a bunch of other grey player slots is fraught with danger. So I'd be shooting him as a service for the town (aka 'Taking out the trash') but not necessarily expecting him to flip scum.
That's my answer to The Worst's question. Montosh is free to answer how they see fit. I provided my answer so that Montosh (and others) can see the standard of response I expect, and also so that I can take credit/be held accountable if I wish to be, should NM flip overnight.
outed PRs have a responsibility to push the game properly. So for example, not muddling by playing scummy and drawing their claim in to question, and also not derailing the game or devolving it in to a sheep the universal town read.
This however is true. As Almost50/Jay have claimed they are the closest things to confirmed town we have, and thus should be acting as town leaders. I'd intuitively like to go along with them, but I haven't really seen any leadership from these slots yet.
I'm town because I am reasonably active, make posts that advance the game state, have reads that are consistent and improving over time, engage with players, and am clearly trying to solve the game.
OTOH I do that as scum too so I by no means believe players should be town clearing me, but it means I tend to confirmation players with shitty posts and activity.
It also means I tend to town read players who play/act in the same way I do, which is a weakness I am aware of but struggle to combat. The hardest scum for me to find are the ones right in the middle of poor post content and good post content - players like Espeonage/Lego/Skitter are right in my blindspot, and if any of those are actually scum, I probably won't catch them out.
@Lego
The 'that is true and fair' was addressed to The Worst. I personally hate it when player x defends player y. Player y should defend themselves because if player x does it, should either slot flip scum later down the track, the other slot now looks bad. So rather than argue with Worst for being wrong, I accepted they were right. Me posting that didn't help you make your answer (which still hasn't appeared, actually) and now that I think about it was just wishful thinking.
Why NM over Espeonage -
Espeonage has made their opinion on certain player slots (e.g. A50) quite clear, and they have been fairly active during the game so far. If I don't have a clear picture on who is scum, then my next best option is to lynch the least valuable contributor, since at the very least if we mislynch we're not losing anybody that matters. Espeonage, bless his little misguided heart, even though he is probably wrong about A50 is at least active and his position is fairly clear. I feel like Espeonage is more useful to town, while NM is not.
My last game with Not Mafia was waaaay back in 2015 when we were scum together. He was a lot more active then but his posting style is still similar. Since it was nearly three years ago I'm not sure if we can take much from it.
NM has literally dozens of games under his belt and is probably a good player. Either he has a strategy for playing this way (e.g. mafia traitor) or he has mentally checked out of the game. If so, I expect he would have replaced though.
I am undecided on Mutant. My preferred lynch was Screen, then Not Mafia, then Jay. Jay has claimed so he is not on my list for today and there doesn't appear to be any real interest in a Screen lynch.
I think there is a good argument that Mutant is scum. I could lynch that slot even though I am not specifically scum reading him. Some of his posts/votes are troubling and I don't think he is a shining example of town.
But out of my choices, since Jay and Screen are currently pencilled out, I'm now interested in NM, specifically as he is happy to make empty content posts, and supposedly unrelated people jump in to defend him. I'm deeply bothered by players who think that NM's conduct is desirable to have in the game because scum gain advantage from this style of play.
Let's be clear, I am not demanding a policy lynch of NM. But since there is some interest going his way, I would love for more votes to go to his wagon so we can see if he does anything interesting with a fire up his ass that IS alignment indicative.
Until now, nobody seemed to care. Now people care, but the ones who spoke up are in his defense and that is, as I mentioned to Worst a moment ago, quite anti-town.
@Worst
Two pages ago you said you had alarm bells when I answered a question directed at Lego.
Do you not see why I might be concerned when players don't care about Not Mafia at all until there's votes on the wagon, and that is only to defend NM instead of letting him post for himself?
what's anti-town about defending someone i townread?
It's anti-town because if NM flips green down the track, you will get town cred, but you might actually be scum.
It's anti-town because if NM flips red down the track, players who defended him will become suspicious, even if they are actually town.
It's anti-town because if you flip red down the track, NM will be suspicious because scum defended him.
It's anti-town because if you flip green down the track, players will be less inclined to think NM is scum because why would they kill somebody who is town reading their slots.
Defending other players is not scummy behavior, but it IS anti-town. Players should be able to defend themselves and be accountable for their posts.
If they can't, then maybe it's because they're scum.
That all said, I do agree that policy lynching a slot on day 1 is a good option if we haven't got a better scum read, but the scum read should be the first option.
Why did you ask this question?
I want to highlight why allowing an alleged non-alignment indicative lurker to coast through to endgame is bad for town.
In what world would you want that in LYLO over me?
Scumworld imo.
@Worst
Oh, colour me surprised. In every game I've played, traitor never knew who the goons were. I thought the recruit mechanic in this game was to allow the goons/mafia to know each other.
Remember, I replaced in to this game and since I am town, did not read the mafia roles as closely as you appeared to have :V
let me ask you this – if you think i'm scum who's been lurking until now just to defend my buddy, why have none of the wagons that have been on l-1 for many of the past days ever gone through to completion? If not mafia is scum, he's a known quickhammerer as either alignment (and yet he hasn't this game), and if i was scum with him, why haven't i come up with some reason to intent someone yet, unless you're calling the scumteam right now?
hnnnnnnnnnnn
That is a really solid point. One that I don't have a good answer to.
My thoughts are a bit of a mess now because I was so sure it was about to be NSG/Worst/Not Mafia as the scum team. But I think now I just let my confirmation bias and emotions get the better of me. I'll take a short break and re-evaluate.
