♥ ♠ Open 711: Stack The Deck - Game Over ♣ ♦

[the worst]

VOTE: Montosh

MS game #2 what's up!

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Reaper's entrance is easily the worst so far. Like I get that it's so overly trolly it's bordering on impossible to analyse but it's also annoying

I want to see more content from A50.

Probs liking Srceenplay the most so far

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VOTE: not mafia

We can not let him get to endgame

Mind elaborating on this?

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Smoking kills

Keeping an eye on u reaper

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@Elmo anything else to add to the policy vote of NM or do you second Esp's comment?

I think that’s three I found now.
GG

Humour me, who are your 3 and who do you like the least?

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Srceen has been poking a lot which feels like he's trying to inspire discussion
I haven't settled on whether it's an explicit townread yet or if I'm just enjoying it

A50 is talking lots but not saying much, he stuck out more to me than others from a skimread. Who would you say has contributed less so far (excluding single posters and those who haven't rocked up yet)?

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@Elmo anything else to add to the policy vote of NM or do you second Esp's comment?

Howdy Elmo! If you're around mind commenting on this?

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Srceen has been poking a lot which feels like he's trying to inspire discussion
I haven't settled on whether it's an explicit townread yet or if I'm just enjoying it

A50 is talking lots but not saying much, he stuck out more to me than others from a skimread. Who would you say has contributed less so far (excluding single posters and those who haven't rocked up yet)?

On Almost50, what high levels on content are you expecting on page 3 right out of RVS? If he was the only one doing this I'd get it but I only see a few people saying much. A50 seems to in the majority. What sets him apart?

A50 is talking lots but not saying much, he stuck out more to me than others from a skimread. Who would you say has contributed less so far (excluding single posters and those who haven't rocked up yet)?

I had been including the single-posters, but outside of them, I feel like Montosh's posts have been fairly similar to those of A50.

This isn't like a bad thing since when they both posted it was still kinda RVS, but I thought it was odd that you called out A50 in particular given that it was RVS and since you could've easily said the same thing about other players as well.

p-edit: yeah I see that Montosh has posted while I was writing this.

Both very fair calls, A50 stuck out to me more when I read through. Maybe because he seems to be posting/interacting more than for instance Montosh with the same null content.

But I have nothing mind blowing yet either, so I'm asking and saying what my gut tells me to ask and say!




@Reaper what is your maf experience? Other forum mafia, Town Of Salem etc.?

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Joined: May 16, 2014

If that said Jan 15, 2018 I wouldn't be voting him

Check post count too NM, I want to hear him tell his story

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I get the Maf/WW Salem thing in general but seconded, if he's a TOS player and new to forum mafia then he's probs used to a very different kind of play

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You're on the money Montosh, just want to see if he actively knows what he's doing is annoying or whether he's accustomed to the full shitpost game opens

His post count is vry low and I didn't dive so this could be his 1st/2nd FM game conceivably

Also UNVOTE:
RVS vote and I don't wanna pick a fight with the moon
Still deciding where the best vote is

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Just stepping back to the original pre-intent to hammer Reaper by Srceen because this definitely feels like a play style from over here.

How would you compare Srceen's normal town play to this, Esp?

FWIW I don't like the idea of saying he'll insta-hammer L-1 on page 4 either
(particularly because I'm concerned Reaper is either a troll or inexperienced with FM)

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yeah Reaper is a waste of time
he's been around since 2014 with like 50 posts
he rocks up every couple of years, joins some games, rolls town, makes a few posts, gets scumread then goes v/la and gets replaced
let's focus on more interesting stuff for now and hope he sticks around to talk to us

No policy, no abnormal play, no jarring stances

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73968

I hate meta, but this coupled with the players he had his formative games with feels really bad.

ngl meta hasn't helped me much yet. But I'll give this a read tomorrow and revisit my stance on srceen

Alright I just read this game again.
I'm down to policy screen and NM take your pick.

any reads?

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Love the Irish artists!
I'm looking forward to it.

It's an open set-up?

Since when did you start trolling?

You think I’m trolling?
I think I’m generating content.

I second this, srceen hasn't struck me as trolly at all.
But alignment is much more interesting and I can't decipher this yet

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A50's reactions stink but I agree there is an opportunistic feel about the reactions (particularly Mutant).
Is it common for BP townies to claim D1 outside of the Matrix6 newbie setup?

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Reaper's backup post will help me decide if he's town.

I like NM better than Elmo at this point. her vibes suck and I don't like being ignored.
Mutant feels a bit too tryhardy for my liking, and I can't really get behind his reasoning.
Esp is very difficult to read but I've got a gut based scumlean.

Srceen is feeling towny again. So is A50, and I'm taking his BP claim at face value rather than trying to consider the wifom fustercluck. Even if scum have taken no abilities, there's a 1/3 chance of instant kill on D1. I really can't see scum motivation for laying it down so damn early.

I THINK Lego is town but need to make sure I'm not rolling conftown bias from our last game over
good feelings from Montosh, too.

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ty will do

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hmm Lego checking vote counts is against his town meta!
(just kidding )

I think your reaction to A50's claim was

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tbh, so I think I want to do this for now.

I sat here for like a minute before I realised you weren't talking about me

I like your post there Skitter. if it's normal for Mutant to "try hard" and lay down large kinda inductive cases then I'm comfortable that his approach was towny.
A Una wagon feels pretty good. VOTE: UnaBombaH

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hmm Lego checking vote counts is against his town meta!
(just kidding )

Are you even a little serious?

not even slightly.

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Una hadn't pinged me much til your post. but having a look through, he probably feels like the opposite of Mutant atm - it hasn't felt like there's been much intent to find scum in his posts yet.

early days and not much to go off. nobody else really feels scummier atm. as he's planning to analyse recent events I'm pretty comfortable sitting on this wagon and seeing what kind of insight he has so far.

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omg I suck!

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Paranoia about the state of a case (TvT/TvS/SvS) and inability to form an opinion about it is a newbtown tell to me

But yes I'd like to hear your thoughts on this Lego.


I detest being a sheep but Skitter is speaking right into my soul. If it's between Una/Srceen Una is the correct player to pressure at this point.

Srceen is difficult to read but I'm leaning towards rude-null-town and not rude-scum. I'm getting a "why would Maf enter the game this way" kinda vibe.

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Pricelsss

TOWN WIN
mafia recruits traitor
STILL TOWN WIN

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In b4 someone makes a cult game where the game doesn't end until everyone is cult.

Awfully tempting. - Math

Pre /in

I was thinking a cult game with endgame recruitment (regardless of living status) could be great too.

One last "fku" to [player here]

Sorry I've had my fun now

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Srceen is difficult to read but I'm leaning towards rude-null-town

Well that sucks. I’m not trying to come across as rude.
I like rocking the boat and going against the grain but my goal is not to be rude.
Sorry you or anyone else feel that way.

Ahhh "rude" might be poorly worded. I'm not offended by your play at all so far. Maybe "assertive" is a better substitute.

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Oh, I read alright.
Now I need the time to write.

I'm leaving for work now, so will try to write in ~12 hours.

The anticipation is killing me!!
Can we have a couple of clues?

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Just gonna slip in and say that's v consistent with Lego's townplay in our last game together. He's verbose but came good in that game

@skitter30 I'm not quite sure how to read you for now I just agree that Una needs a squeeze

Don't feel buddied

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Actually need to be careful
I'm finding it really easy to townread Lego
The correct move for him would be to pocket me (which..... he maybe hasn't not done)

A50's reactions stink but I agree there is an opportunistic feel about the reactions (particularly Mutant).
Is it common for BP townies to claim D1 outside of the Matrix6 newbie setup?

Too little, too late (to be a post with any AI). Also a very fence-sitty post in nature -

only one sentence, has a "but" in it, and compliments both "directions" of the argument!

Please read carefully, this was a criticism of both of them!!!
A50's reactions came off terribly. If we removed the claim I'd be softscumreading him. Rn I'm happy to take the claim at face value.

Mutant's original push felt very verbose and opportunistic (i.e. making the most of an opportunity (i.e. scummy reasoning)) at first but now I'm thinking he's looking more like tryhard town

I'm gonna put this down to a misinterpretation and assume you're not reading me incorrectly for such ridiculous reasons.

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Townish
Math

Disagree, mod is scummy

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Mono = Montosh?

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Who's Math?

AtE
Let's wagon this

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I'm finding it really easy to townread Lego

Why? I see very little to townread. The only reason he isn't a hard scumread right now is because I'm not sure if I'm conflating newer-player behaviors with scummy behaviors

We just finished a town game together, I think im very light confbias a town read based on that

I have this paranoid scummy gut feeling though, and now I'm starting to suspect scum!Lego might be pocketing me a little. Not really sure how to respond to this but it's probably a net scumlean

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@skitter

Lego played very similar last game but probably more paranoid D1. The verbosity and hesitancy to make concrete reads til late is consistent. He's definitely been friendlier this game which is my main scum concern.

Una felt very different that game but he was ICing. He was inadvertently quickhammered by another Townie. Scum!Derpy (for those who know him) was pushing the wagon so the tone was very different. But Una was certainly defending much more confidently as town, and by the time the hammer happened it was almost obviously town flailing.

Basically by limited meta I could see either of them as scum. Trying to meta read Lego who has been in one completed game is ridiculous so I'm trying to reserve the scummier part of my read to this thread only.

Una I've only played one day phase with him but I have an uncomfortable feeling here... Have you played with Una before? What are your thoughts?

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Mine is gut meta only. Assists my reads but massive margin of error and I wouldn't suggest taking it as gospel.

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Una I've only played one day phase with him but I have an uncomfortable feeling here... Have you played with Una before? What are your thoughts?

On Una in general - if he's scum I think he's the traitor.

Just thinking on it. I totally agree with this. It feels way too risky for like proper teamscum

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I'm tr af on Mutant so I'd really rather not

Lego is the only one of your 3 I can read as scum atm

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Welcome Jay.

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I'm struggling a tiny bit keeping up the last day or so.

The Srceen wagon feels too accepted yuck

I'll try and catch up and be more relevant tonight.

If I've glaringly obviously missed anything I need to reply to please let me know.

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I get the feeling despite playstyle clashes Srceen has a generally positive attitude towards the playerlist. Reading between the lines a bit I suspect he's gambiting with his bold play and reading firmly into opportunism in the reactions. I'm liking it.

I feel like there's very little scum motive to assertively townread players the way his readlist did. Even if we assume worst case scenario and he's scum setting us up for a mislynch today it would be ridiculously difficult to bitch out of it tomorrow. His approach to the A50 wagon is incredibly pragmatically pro town.

TBH it just feels like if Srceen were scum he'd be making way too much work for himself later in the game. Reading this with his faint disinterest read (i.e. including the mod in his readlist) the idea just seems to cancel itself out.

Am I waffling or hallucinating?....this feels right in my brain

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So now your defense is your personality is kinda crappy and we got to get used to you so we can town read you, even with the possibility that your not even town this game. Wonderful.

Along with personally going for a Meta thing I can't even defend myself with? This fricken sucks.

Derpy Hooves in my last game played very like screenplay. Very aggressive. When pressured on it, he said that it was his normal play style and not AI. Turned out to be scum. Do you think this could be a similar situation here? Because I could very well see it.

Not really. Derpy made some very anti town plays but it was his meta to do so as either alignment and he was extremely convincingly earnest. Only found him out via PoE tbqh

Srceen's play so far has been messy and trolly but quite pro town. I'm like, confused as to why this wagon is even getting so much traction??

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Elmo is like. Generally unsettling

VOTE: Jay strongly preferable to voting a strong townread, this slot is null/scum and needs some pressure.

Still not getting a good feeling from Una ftr

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Having more than one of the same power role sounds a bit wonky from a balance POV

@MOD/MATH

sorry to ask but since it's open hopefully it's ok. Can there be more than one of the same PR either player/scum?


pedit this feels TvS for sure, if its SvS I'll cry for a week postgame D:

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This isn't even a Survivor play at this point, though now everyone who hasn't played with me before, you can fill them in on it.

I am not saying I'm a PR, but I'm also not NOT saying it either. I'm going to see what scum are going to do with that, because I'm currently doing something different. A fun segment, if you will.

"What would Dino do?"

Pretty fun so far.

Most accurate post all gams so far

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Newbie moment: I know talking about ongoing games is not on but uh
Is he in an ongoing game with Math?
Am I allowed to ask this?

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@Math, iirc Srceen says he mixed you up briefly with something from another game in his read lists in this game. Without asking him to make ANY comment on his stance on you or any other player in any other game may I ask him simply to refer to the player list of the other game which resulted in the confusion?

I am so "fine line" on this question (his elaboration may technically cause an inference to another game even unintentionally) so if it's a grey area it is not worth pursuing.



(FTR I plan to give Srceen a more thorough read because I really like him at surface level but obviously at least some more experienced players who are Town are seeing something I'm not. If this post is knocked back under site rules please don't take it out of context.)

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Thanks Math, I had a similar feeling.



I'll proceed with my re-read without that most likely tomorrow

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I think they look unsettling in a good way.... This isn't a game about warm fuzzy feelings!

Yeah there is no way I want to get involved with the Srceen wagon. He's not flipping red. Jay felt like a clear enough option when I voted them but rn it's even stronger. It feels like they're making flimsy efforts to pull Una back into the lynch pool..... When is emoji abuse a scumtell?

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@Jay: Are you a hydra?

Oh of course. But you got to keep it a secret from the others.

--- Elsa

keeping secrets from town
scumteam confirmed

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This weekend hasn't been good activity wise. Honestly a lot of the setup talk has kinda floated a little bit over my head (or maybe just didn't interest me heaps), but I understand both sides of the argument.
UNVOTE: (if I'm still voting anyone)

I still feel like Srceen is a terrible lynch today. Mutant definitely isn't a strong scumread on me, but I'd gladly see him lynched before a townread.
will try and keep on top of this during the week.

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just had a little bit of a reread and did some ISOs. I'm honestly struggling with the player count and like overabundance of awesome playstyles here but I'll try my best to be more valuable winding up to day end.

mr. lego

sorry to focus on you D1 in 2/2 games but would you be kind enough to give me a readlist?

i'm at page four and i already think espeonage is obvscum for 86 to 88.

northsidegal

762 is my new fav intro ever
sorry to bomb you while you're catching up but I have to ask, why do you find those posts obvscum?

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So you declared intent to hammer but you didn't mean it because you didn't scumread him but you would've done it if he didn't claim even though you didn't scumread him

Is his defence like.... an epic bluff or a scumclaim?

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Vc

I've been holding out for a VC (can't count higher than 3) Math are you trolling us

Sorry! Doing that now

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Wait who's Screen?

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VOTE: mutant

Really liked his earlier play but he's been super super defensive and awkward around this wagon. This is worth sheeping


Kinda similar feel to Esp, I have some uncomfortable scumvibes but I'd really strongly prefer to keep my eye on them right now :/

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Apologies for the more deader activity, I'm in two games currently (which is something I promised myself I wouldn't do while I'm still a n00b). This is my 2nd game on the site. FTR out of respect to town and the mod's activity requirements if my activity will remain poor/get worse I'll replace out.

Skitter I am sheeping a little while I don't feel like I can be strongly influential. Also I think you're town which makes you v easy to gravitate towards.

This game has been a lot more overwhelming than expected esp. while juggling another. I definitely lack the knowledge when it comes to setups playstyles etc. so other than reading IIOA into half the player list I'm not really sure how to contribute quite yet. Far from giving up, just currently have very little to contribute.

Lego is a gut scum lean so defs not buddying him this game I just think he's a nice dude.

Incidentally it's quite difficult to explain why I'm scumreading him. Probably because I'm finding his posts less substantial than I did during out last game together (T/T). It kinda feels like he's trying not to commit on as much as possible and keep a low profile. Being a touch verbose and dramatic is a part of his personality I think but there's just less intent to solve the game here.

Anyway pushing a scumread based on circumstantial crap on a newbie with 1 game's meta feels like a complete farce (unsubtle shade) so I don't have a lot of grounds to push my main scumread.

Other than this I'm getting a lot more town feelings. I'm very comfortable with A50 being town (his play gets increasingly towny even writing off the claim). As far as the claimed PRs go Jay has more of a feeling like they've claimed ERGO they don't have to put in effort. This read could be 100% crap and I also don't feel like its necessarily AI. Srceen for example has been a lot less ambitious after his gambitty day open but has stuck around and made some pretty neat prods.

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That definitely makes sense. I'm not sheeping for no reason, I'm sheeping because I think you're pushing a good agenda and I happen to agree with you mostly.

FTR I draw a line between sheeping due to disinterest/disengagement, and sheeping due to low confidence. I am aware of what I'm doing I'm just not coming up with any better conclusions rn. If I find you're scum later then I am equally accountable for getting sucked in and sheeping a scummy wagon!


[I understand there's parts of your point I'm not responding to but they're acknowledged. Mostly rn I intend to quantify my level of engagement ]

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Esp have you played with A50 before?

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Is this level of like confidence and stuff typical of him?

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Is this level of like confidence and stuff typical of him?

Why don't you just go ISO me for my most recent couple of games (make that 3 if you intend to read the SK game). Also check the last game on the wiki page of "Almost Chara" (my hydra with Chara/Not Chara but I was the one posting for like 90% of the game). My games are on my wiki page too, and I think it better if you get the read yourself rather than hearsay, and especially with someone of as high caliber as Espeonage involved.

Thanks for the transparency. As far as educating myself here goes, first hand knowledge always contains another dimension than a retrospective meta read (especially one done by a newb like myself!! )

That being said I'll do some reading!

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Fun fact: if Lego or Mutant flip groupscum I v much doubt they took daychat.

Still enough time to empty vote my bigger scumread (sorry dude)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lego

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I feel like claiming VT and giving a pretty meh readlist is too scummy for scum coming from Mutant. Could be traitor or maybe there's no daychat tho ig

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Empty vote?! Nothing empty about that!

Yas a scumclaim!
Thank you for putting my mind at rest.

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Mutant has lost like all conscientiousness the only scum tell he hasn't done is self hammering (which scum would have done surely given his lack of intention to get involved in the game).

I am starting to really doubt scum would play the way he's playing rn.

Who has been opportunistic around his wagon? Besides Jay who is tragically a claimed PR

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Tfw you thought you were the sheepiest person in the room and someone outsheeps you

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I don’t like to vote scum reads without making my own analytical push.

Make an analytical push please, I don't want to lynch you atm

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I love Elsa Jay. Top 2 most fabulously confusing players to read (of those I've played with so far)

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now number one!!!

Mutant and Screen are the only ones close to wagons and neither of them are worth lynching. We've still got a few days to find a suitable parallel wagon. (someone else do my work for me please, I am literally the worst)

unvote, vote: lego

Worst has good restraint. So consider this my consolidating off a vanity wagon.

this too is a vanity wagon

I should get into sheeping it sounds fun

monty If you had to shoot one player RIGHT NOW who would it be and why?

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Yo A50 maybe stop buddying with the newbie.

I'm the biggest newb here and you joined my wagon...
BTW Esp do you find A50's play this game consistent with your experience of him? Forgot to follow thru on this when I asked

@SP I'd shoot Lego rn I think we've got scum!
But I appreciate the N_M logic. Also yes I asked Monty for a reason.

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Why are those 4 confirmed to you?
In particular pls explain Pala

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So I'm town for semi-scum-reading Mutant?

Anyway The Worst

Scum

mutantdevle

Null

Everyone else - null
Skitter - town-null
the worst - town-null
Srceenplay - town-null

Town

None

That is

only

what I've seen from this game, that is, not counting gut-feely thingy

If you want that too... well, let me know, I really need to go right now.

(quoted for laziness!)

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I'm prepared to allow a bit of flexibility to his avoiding listing gut reads so mutant as the only scum is fair in his former readlist.

Now I wanna see how his thinking is progressing :3

A50/Jay is a good question

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You realise that's a quote of his post of thet number in full rite Pala

My reads are different but as stated, I've been struggling to stay woke thru big segments of this phase

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Cheers Legz. I've had a lotta coffee today!

Please explain your read on Pala?

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Thanks friend. It's OK, I understand. Being scum is exhausting.

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Pala let's ask random players questions. If they're in the top half of the player list I'll answer the questions for them. If they're in the bottom half, you answer for them.

Legs' previous read on you was on point with my thinking, pretty much null but I'd be prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt today. The fact he's suddenly town blocking you and you're answering questions for him is ringing alarm bells for me


Pedit: I'll accept the terminology difference but it's still a bit curious for me how you're pulling him back to town lean now

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That was directed at lego regarding his liberal use of "confirmed town". Acknowledging that I use the term EXTREMELY literally so won't hold it against him for using it when I'd use something like "strong townread" or "not in my lynch pool for today"

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You're definitely very literate. I realised I enjoy your posting style mid D2 last game together.

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What danger was he in? Why would I want to town block him -- that is terrible
play as scum.

howwwww so?

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Ok, so either TW or NM or PL is scum then NM

Splain

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Is that post srs Pala? o.O

Seconded I'm enjoying N_M a lot. I also don't think he's playing terribly nor do I think he's scummy. Whilst I appreciate policy lynches/vigs in a theoretical way there is no reason to wagon him IMO

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N_M u make it so hard to logically argue for your survival

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I really don't like this fixation on pl's tbh.

Like, instead of finding scum we're using the lynch to remove players that may or may not be town but whose posting style we don't like?

+100
Skitter pls be my new best friend

may i propose the espeonage wagon for everyone's consideration?

I wouldn't hate the idea, what prompts this proposition?

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R00d I'm in his defence and I'm the towniest player I know of

Convince me N_M is scum or has a chance of being scum
If he flips red what do we learn
If he flips green you realise all we'll do is go after people who over pushed NAI stuff right?

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Who are your scum partners?
In this ""hypothetical scenario""

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You answered weird questions directed at lego in an effort to read him. If you two are scum buddies this makes sense. If you're scum and he's town this makes sense. If you're town and he's scum this doesn't really make sense.

I am defending N_M because he's a terrible wagon rn and I tr him

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may i propose the espeonage wagon for everyone's consideration?

I wouldn't hate the idea, what prompts this proposition?

it's kind of more of a gut-based read which i don't often push, although i can type up a more specific case on his weird vote progression / voting patterns when i get a bit more time. if it means anything to anyone i have experience with espeonage as scum where he was caught day one (although to be fair, that was only one game).

This is pretty much where I'm at with Esp.
I'll compromise here if it comes to it

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[Alright, here's the deal (heh). At this table, we play Stack the Deck. 13 seats: 10 belong to

townies

, 2 belong to

mafia goons

, and 1 belongs to a

mafia traitor

(who knows the identity of both mafia).

Who are your scum partners?
In this ""hypothetical scenario""

Let's say that NM or myself are the non-recruited traitor, so we don't know who our mafia buddies were, and vice versa.

SP groupscum or town confirmed

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NSG do you think it was a fake slip?

VOTE: Espeonage
Back to sheeping, my one true calling

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I may need to take a step back

SP looks scummier and scummier since NSG appeared which I think is my sheep spirit animal coming out to play

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I see you Jay! <3

Can I go to bed now?

Yes I won't deathtunnel you overnight I promise

i mean, is anyone else looking at 1093 and seeing the same thing that i am?

Yes. Scarily so

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A50 is in the same category as N_M now, I want him to stick around

I think Esp is on Lego not you now tho

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Sigh I was excited for Una's catch-up too
Why are people assuming the full scumteam would rush to the defence of one of its members who is flailing hard regardless of alignment?

I think he's town but that wasn't a great catch-up have a good night Una

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tbh I'd be down to lynch Yankee's slot

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I think that's L-2 tbh

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if you join us on Esp today I'll join you on Yankee's slot tomorrow?

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BTW, can it be as simple as this: Sky_Paladin, JaydragonKing, Espeonage?

I could see it tbh


VOTE: Yankee as promised, this slot probs flips red anyway

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VOTE: Northsidegal

Please explain this sudden desire to get off the Mutant wagon and attempt to flashwagon.

This also goes for TheWorst.

I'm not really interested in Montosh/Not Mafia at this stage.

This feels alignment informed and terribly executed.

It was very obvious Mutant was going to flip green towards the end of the day. If you're actually town read my ISO for my reasoning.

If you didn't spend the night phase looking at why people were on his wagon and felt it was appropriate to put on such a lame farce that's not my fault.

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Hmm now you've met me before coffee. I'm often brilliant but leave clues for myself to work out exactly what I meant later.

Your weird questioning of NSG felt far too pre meditated, but I would expect someone who actually read the damn thread to understand exactly why Mutant's wagon was overwhelming dense.

[the worst]

I think it's

probably

NSG/TheWorst/Screenplay but it miiiiight still be Skitter.

I'll be back in a little bit to expound on why this is so.

I'm looking forward to this.

[the worst]

Anyone elsa think I should immediately give out my result or wait until later in the day for strategic reasons? I'm fine with either but will listen to the majority.

The only strategic reason I can think of is if you're fakeclaiming scum worried about accidentally naming a town PR so I'm down for an immediate result.

If you think there is a distinct advantage in holding off please explain when you get to it. (I'm a newb so stuff like this rocks my world )

[the worst]

Pedit - naming a town PR who wasn't blocked last night obviously

[the worst]

And at this rate the mafia will be claiming VT regardless.

Rly now, please explain?

[the worst]

And at this rate the mafia will be claiming VT regardless.

Rly now, please explain?

[the worst]

1. Why tf would vig shoot anyone N1?
2. What is your town motivation in shooting me?

[the worst]

what scumteam would ever choose bulletproof? that's like the second worst option you could choose.

i agree that lynching the worst mechanically seems like the better play, but i also think that you're lying.

would like to hear from everyone else.

A50 raised a good point about this - by selecting the 2 powers available they effectively nullify the RC

[the worst]

Also if I really was protected by A50 last night
Thank you!!! @A50's ghost

[the worst]

EcplIn your scumread on both of us

[the worst]

Not bulletproof.

[the worst]

Derp... my bad

Still waiting for you to answer my questions BTW. The fact you boycott actually backing your alleged actions up to respond to someone else screams suspicious

[the worst]

In what way was I a better NK than Skitter?
I'm the most lynchable dude on the planet particularly with associatives

[the worst]

Anyone know which order NAs resolve in this setup?

Presumably

Protect
Vig
Scum NK

[the worst]

Anyone know which order NAs resolve in this setup?

Presumably

Protect
Vig
Scum NK

Aren't kills resolved simultaneously?

Thats what I want to know.

For this to be true Esp is suggesting he targeted me, I would have had to be protected by A50 which means scum then shot either A50 or the traitor?

So that reduces the chances. If Esp is telling the truth, either scum had to pick bulletproof or theworst is a traitor.

Shadee

[the worst]

I'm trying to sort in my mind whether scum would fakeclaim vig like this. Going by his attitude and his comment about A50 being stupid I actually don't think he's lying. His tone around the claim have been very serious and he's responding in pretty good time to questions. Like he's either pre meditated this a lot as scum or he's telling the truth.

That being said I have no idea if Esp is capable of this as scum.

[the worst]

I get the feeling Esp is very good as well. I am just a n00b and not a competent meta reader.

[the worst]

VOTE: Montosh
Opportunistic af

[the worst]

i'll consider that i'm off here and that it actually is the worst – i don't think it is, but i had him as a scumlean catching up.

still waiting on everyone.

Not seeing Espe's aim as scum here, if the worst flips town the best hope he has is "lol whoops that gosh darn A50"

perhaps a desperation play / not a long game play?

I don't see why someone like Espeonage would put his scum life on the line for a player like Worst... No offense, of course.

What's probably happened so far is this-

Espeonage shoots The Worst
Mafia shoots JaydragonKing
Almost50 protects JaydragonKing

That also means the mafia PROBABLY don't have the JOAT since they could strongarm me and get Almost hung. And since they didn't get the traitor, they either have a RoleCop or daytalk.

This is my train of thought too.

That being said if scum didn't take any abilities there's a very very high chance Esp is actually fakeclaiming scum

[the worst]

Train of thought re. I couldn't see Esp gambiting this hard to get me lynched. Like I'm so MLable sometimes when I sneeze too hard I accidentally fall onto gallows.

[the worst]

That being said if scum didn't take any abilities there's a very very high chance Esp is actually fakeclaiming scum

if scum didn't take any abilities then at least one of espeonage and elsa would be confirmed to be lying.

How so?

[the worst]

That being said if scum didn't take any abilities there's a very very high chance Esp is actually fakeclaiming scum

if scum didn't take any abilities then at least one of espeonage and elsa would be confirmed to be lying.

How so?

[/blonde]
Ignore this.

Esp is far more likely to be lying IMO given he's blasted out of the woodwork now that all the town roles in this situation would have been outed.

[the worst]

VOTE: Montosh
Opportunistic af

Anyone who doesn't believe Esp or believes A50 may have protected me please please sheep this

[the worst]

Yup that was a blonde post sorry.

And yas my life is sheep in one way or another but yours is scum!!

[the worst]

If you're scum we lynch one of your buddies today then you confirm yourself tonight.

If you're town we lynch scum today then you prove yourself tonight.

[the worst]

That is true but depressing

[the worst]

Can anyone else see how Mont gets scummier with every post?

[the worst]

The worst part of this is like
I believe Esp is legit
I know I'm town
I do not know what happened but hey I'm alive

Of everyone on my wagon Montosh is giving immensely scummy vibes so I'm totally voteparking there.

[the worst]

who do you guys expect a scum espeonage would do this to?

Someone more experienced who is more difficult to lynch lategame TBH but even so I don't really think he's scum rn :/

[the worst]

Skitter for second most opportunistic
I'm sad

A50 had to have protected me last night for him to he correct which is not inconceivable for me

[the worst]

Skitter for second most opportunistic
I'm sad

A50 had to have protected me last night for him to he correct which is not inconceivable for me

So now your only defense is to say Almost didn't die to the mafia, but to the vig shot block?

Then who did the mafia shoot?

I have no idea but if Esp is being honest A50 would have had to protect me. Assuming Esp is vig apparently Maf must have shot A50 or their own traitor I guess.

[the worst]

Lynching outside the two of us is objectively the correct play.

A50 continuously stated that he would NOT be naming his townreads due to his night action.

[the worst]

who do you guys expect a scum espeonage would do this to?

Did you answer this? Because you'd need to explain to me scum!esp's motivation for doing that for me to find it remotely plausible.

Who was this at?
Also why?
I'm not sure if this is a misunderstanding or throwing shade but I don't like it.

[the worst]

No it's probably a misunderstanding TBH

[the worst]

No I think we're both town. That can be confirmed tonight.

[the worst]

Sadly. Esp shooting me.
NSG is correct.

[the worst]

Anyone know which order NAs resolve in this setup?

Presumably

Protect
Vig
Scum NK

This is important btw

[the worst]

I'm phone posting so will not explain in full til I'm home.
Think about all the possibilities equally. If we look for scum today and let Esp shoot me tonight then we've gained a lunch. This will resolve itself tonight or tomorrow.

[the worst]

Skitter are you tired? Just checking

[the worst]

He's just saying if people lynch anyone but me he won't shoot me tonight.

Get some sleep, we can go over it tomorrow <3

[the worst]

That would be dumb.
Espy shoot me tonight
Think about the different angles, please please please please don't tunnel

[the worst]

Thanks Jay.

@Esp think of it from the angle of a scum player (Montosh for example) please see what I mean

That would be dumb.
Espy shoot me tonight
Think about the different angles, please please please please don't tunnel

The fact that you say your town yet you want to redirect the vig to shoot you again is very telling. You really are a complete Bulletproof mafia.

If I was bulletproof mafia why would I want to cut myself? I'm vt. At this stage my flip is a lot more valuable than my life but I am the WRONG choice for D2 lynch

[the worst]

But like. He'll probably die tonight tbh. Shooting me is the best course of action and if I'm still alive tomorrow lunch me

[the worst]

I feel like my point of view isn't even being entertained
This situation makes complete logical sense to me. Why would you want more players dead for the sake of it? Like expose scum and kill them

If Esp shoots elsewhere he has a 37.5% chance to hit scum (if I'm counting correctly) and like all due respect but I know for a fact his scumdar is bad this game

[the worst]

Let's say he is vig (likely) and hits town (likely) and scum doesn't kill tonight (possible)

Esp is the solitary NK and claims he targeted the NK target but like who is going to believe him?

You're potentially pushing town into two mislynches if I'm right

[the worst]

The only chance I'm taking is that you're town and your claim is true.
I don't consider that slim but suit yourself my friend.

[the worst]

@Jay I think that no NK is an obvious scum tactic when you've got a possible/unconfirmed vigilante in semi open or closed setups. Please come back to this post-game if you disagree, I'd like to talk more about it.

This is why I keep imploring people to think through this shit though. The more I explain where I'm coming from the more WIFOMy logical shit will come out.

[the worst]

I changed my mind. He's literally insane. We gotta hang him immediately.

Execute Order 66

Not incorrect still a bad idea though

[the worst]

I think my flip is a necessity to advance this game but I'm a far better N2 NK than D2 lynch. Reread A50's posts regarding his night action. He expressly stated a resistance to naming his townreads because it might misdirect night actions or alert scum to where to shoot. This makes a lot more sense than you're giving it credit for. ALSO it makes a lot of sense for scum to target A50 N1 regardless of PR. He was very easily townread and could have caused NK issues in future phases. I think it's more likely scum targeted A50 but either of those scenarios are very plausible.

Anyway while you're tunnelling I'm gonna look for real scum :3

For emphasis VOTE: Montosh

[the worst]

BTW I respect what you're doing Esp. Occam's razor is overpowered and when applied correctly gets very good results.

Unfortunately you're wrong here. You don't have a N1 guilty. The results of your night action are speculative at best. If you're town please remember win con > night action.

I think my flip is a necessity to advance this game but I'm a far better N2 NK than D2 lynch. Reread A50's posts regarding his night action. He expressly stated a resistance to naming his townreads because it might misdirect night actions or alert scum to where to shoot. This makes a lot more sense than you're giving it credit for. ALSO it makes a lot of sense for scum to target A50 N1 regardless of PR. He was very easily townread and could have caused NK issues in future phases. I think it's more likely scum targeted A50 but either of those scenarios are very plausible.

Anyway while you're tunnelling I'm gonna look for real scum :3

For emphasis VOTE: Montosh

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Even if scum target A50 N1, then it doesn't explain why you survived Esp's shot. Unless you think he's lying, which you said you don't.

Doesn't it? Are you reading what you're typing Mr. Scum?

[the worst]

Tbqh A50 HAD TO have targeted me last night for me to be alive unless A50 is lying.

Scum probably attacked the same target (omg unless Una was the scum killer and Jay correctly roleblocked him.... This doesn't bear thinking about yet)

[the worst]

EBWOP: unless Esp is lying*

[the worst]

Whether he is lying or not he's incorrect and neither of us are likely to survive long.

So I think town needs to play these phases optimally

[the worst]

feels like i'm going up against a scum block.

At least you'll get the satisfaction of being correct.

A brief ISO of Worst shows he is massively favoring NSG and Screen.

So I'll call the scum team Worst/NSG/Screen at this point and wall post why it's game over when I'm finished work.

As per before I'm looking forward to this
What's your experience with mafia?

[the worst]

Are Montosh and SP really transparent scum atm or is it just me?
I will not scumread everyone on my wagon but these guys are so opportunistic and keen to push a lazy lynch without reading the thread... o_0

[the worst]

Are Montosh and SP really transparent scum atm or is it just me?
I will not scumread everyone on my wagon but these guys are so opportunistic and keen to push a lazy lynch without reading the thread... o_0

First off, it's not exactly a lazy lynch. There's a 1v1 that does need to be resolved. We've got a claimed vig saying he shot you and you didn't die. Conclusions if Esp is telling the truth: Either A50 protected you and scum no killed or also targeted you, or you've got BP, which only scum has. The former seems unlikely, and since there's little benefit to scum!Esp fakeclaiming vig Day 2 to get you lynched, then this is something that probably needs to be resolved.

Do you really not get this?

Apparently you haven't read anything else this day phase so I'm glad you understood that bit at least!

My wagon is a very easy lynch. Unfortunately I know for a FACT that I was either protected by A50 or Esp is lying. But neither of those possibilities are even slightly remote (I think the former is very slightly more likely but that's mostly because I liked Esp's tone around his claim).

You are really lazily throwing shade at me and egging the wagon on while others are doing the hard work. You haven't even voted yet. Like your attitude around my wagon just opens the door for you to come back and lynch Esp tomorrow without really being involved in the wagons.

If I'm lynched today and flip green hopefully you'll be revisited soon so if you're town please try and give us some kind of way to notice

[the worst]

@Monty I never said we should lynch Esp. I said we should lynch actual scum today. RTFT. Also saying you want to ride the day out but don't want to vote and risk a quick day comes across as far more interested in appearances than interested in game solving

Tbh montosh it doesn't change a whole lot of the day does end quickly. The worst already claimed by.

I claimed VT. Should we lynch all VT claims? Yowch

[the worst]

Basically Mont please gamesolve by solving the game not by blindly following night actions.

Allowing for the fact that {me/Esp} cannot be the full scumteam obviously following this 1v1 into oblivion is pointless. Outside of us 2, if you had to pick a scumteam who would they be?

[the worst]

NSG you're in my head

On re-read this is super tunnelly and like, gross. The BG died last night it would be ridiculous for an ACTUAL vig to come out of the woodwork and insist that they 100% are certain that they found bulletproof scum. A sensible vig would actually shoot the person again the next night if they still scumread them while the BG is not in play.

Basically I'm 100% certain that Esp is too intelligent to throw down this piss-poor a game state if he was actually town vig.

VOTE: Espeonage
We either have
1. A scum fakeclaiming a vig
2. A vig who is caught in crazy tunnel vision (huge town liability)

Mont/Esp is 100% possible for groupscum. They are now my lynch pool today (SP and Lego to be revisited depending on flips and further play )

Tbh montosh it doesn't change a whole lot of the day does end quickly. The worst already claimed by.

This is also a scumclaim for sure while there's such delicious conversation going on

[the worst]

Una do you think this is SvT?

Explain what about the argument is scummy on whose part without going on the night actions please (considering they're absolutely not provable either way)

[the worst]

I think you're right.

It's night time where I live and I fully expect to be lynched overnight. I really wish whoever is left would at least consider what's going on but it's difficult af arguing with death tunnelly NK interpretation.

Also I still flip vt good luck town

[the worst]

More night actions on me next time!
Sorry anyone whose nose I knocked out of joint. Skitter & NSG you guys were absolutely terrific.

Jay your scumgame scares the fuck out of me!! How ambitious to claim on D1. Shame you hurt my feelings so we're not friends anymore.

N_M I was townreading you even when I knew you were not-not-mafia.

Overall really enjoyable game. Wp everyone and congrats scumteam!



I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks I should have done something differently d1/d2 (but just curious)

[the worst]

Don't you dare Montosh you were fun to play against!