Team Mafia 2018: Mafiosi Revolution (Over)

[Chara]

so you're saying you think Cabd decided to fakeclaim BP instead after the kill failed?

pedit: if Una doesn't have a claim that warrants his behaviour, he's done.

[Ether]

Day 4, Votecount 11

---

I'm the lynch, I'm a leader
I just told you how to read her
I don't mind it, we'll make do
You'll get them on Day 2
I look strange, I concede
I know I'm hard to read
I hope you listen to the things I tried to say

-[

Bitch,

Meredith Brooks

]

2 Ginngie (Cheetory6, Patrick)
2 Kmd4390 (Chara, UnaBombaH)
1 Aristophanes (Firebringer)
1 Chara (Kmd4390)
1 Firebringer (implosion)
1 implosion (Ginngie)

2 Unvote (Aristophanes, Spiffeh)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-23 01:00:00), on Friday, February 23 at 1:00 am EST.

---

[Patrick]

pedit: if Una doesn't have a claim that warrants his behaviour, he's done

This is true, but I much preferred to use the word bomb.

[Kmd4390]

Or he realized during the night that he was going down that day and shouldn't take his partner with him.

[Patrick]

Ginngie - I really dislike that she hasn't been challenging anyone on their Patrick townreads in spite of her having come into today with a hankering to lynch him. I disagree that Ginngie was being widely townread before the claim, so I don't really see why there isn't any kind of incentive to, as scum, in a position where no town PRs are dead, do something that gets you a lynch that might otherwise be difficult, something that completely fucks up the entire tone of the game from "fuck you scum you're getting stomped" to "fuck this game" from town's POV and generates a shit-ton of WiFoM as to why scum would do something that stupid. Biggest hesitation is that this is like next level melodrama that I think would be hard for scum to fake, but if Ginngie is still coasting by on this self-pity shit in a day or two then I think it's more likely a scum gambit than not

I like Cheet's idea of providing a top 3, but I'm struggling because I feel like Ginngie is the only player I have a net scumread on. Let's see where it goes anyway.

One thing I want to say about the notion that she wouldn't fakeclaim as scum, is that scum-Ginngie was in a really really bad position going into day 3. Basically anyone as scum would be, unless it's someone everyone has completely fallen for, and even then the win would not be trivial. I agree that Ginngie probably wasn't getting lynched on day 3, but I think her chances of making it to the end would be extremely slim bordering on none. When your starting position is terrible, making a high risk / potential high reward play becomes more appealing, and in Team Mafia there are 5 heads who can cook up something like that. Playing reasonably or just lurking a bit was not a strategy that would win the game from day 3.

The only decent point I thinks been brought up is that if it is a gambit, the tone / ATE side of it has been played quite well. But since in the last Team Mafia I had to fight extremely hard to lynch ETL-scum, who basically suckered people by using a lot of the same techniques to try and cover up poor scumhunting and arguments, I'm not convinced Ginngie is town just because she sounds indignant.

Also just kinda think she's shading a banana boatload of people today with very little depth. 3338 implies suspicion of both me and Kmd with no commitment or specifics, 3336 kind of attacks implosion for expressing a reasonable sentiment, then she votes me for not voting her immediately, then Firebringer for not having any legit pushes, then Spiff suspicion (maybe for lurking, don't know), then Unabombah (which I do agree his post is weird). It's a very very wide net and I'm not convinced she's actually trying to sort these players.

This:

Una a lot of us know I'm town

I will understand right before M/LyLo but nothing sooner

If you don't actually have scumreads and are pushing what is essentially policy then that looks really bad

Contradicts the earlier statement that she should be lynched today or left alone for the rest of the game in 3398, but what I really want to say here is that I'm pretty scared about leaving Ginggie around until the day before lylo. That gives ample opportunity to shape the town in such a way that Ginngie supporters outnumber the people who want Ginngie lynched, and I don't trust remaining town to actually go through with it. I want it to happen today.

Since I said I'd do the exercise, two people I'd look at if Ginngie is town would be Firebringer and Chara.

Firebringer I find pretty impenetrable tone-wise, and my read has defaulted to neutral almost every time I've looked at his posts this game. I thought the hopelessly late insistence that Assemble was going to flip town was a bit of a town tell for Firebringer because scum usually try to manufacture something to get on the wagon late, and Assemble's very sloppy posts would have given that opportunity. His team thoughts on day 2 looked decent to me, but I think if he is a competent scum player they wouldn't have been that hard to produce. Good luck to implosion if he intends to produce a compelling case for scumship here, because I don't see one, lol. It's more just an absence of stuff that reads as strongly town. I think his posts are more fakeable than most.

Chara I almost feel bad for having here, they seem like a very pleasant poster and bring up a decent number of points over the course of the game, I'm just not sure that they're town. Their points against Kmd are easy ones to make, but I guess sometimes the obvious points can be right. One point I don't like as I read through is this one:

finally, a petty point, but: in Mathdino's own words, the alignment of Kmd-slot can be determined by accuracy of reads. i'd kind of love to call him on it.

Far as I remember, mathdino did call Mulch correctly in the Transcend v Mulch argument, and had Transcend as obvtown, an argument that you assessed the opposite way. You were also on Kagami in the Kagami v Mulch race, and you weren't even that strong on cabd, so I don't get the tone of this quote at all. I assume you're being critical of mathdino's slightly ridiculous position on cabd, but I wouldn't mind hearing from you what you think the scum motivation was. I don't think Kmd slot as scum would think they could preserve cabd's life, and beyond that I don't see a lot of point.

I do get a pretty good feel from skimming through Chara's ISO, I thought Cheetory's point about consistency was silly before, as I don't view it as a protown sign, but I can kind of see what he's getting at. As I read this, I wonder if Aris should be in this spot instead, even though I think there are problems with that theory as well.

Have to cut this off and go to bed, but I'd mainly like it if people who are on the train of Ginngie would never risk this as scum could read what I say above and tell me why that couldn't possibly have happened. If someone has some specific request for me to do tomorrow let me know and I'll do it, I think we're at a point where that kind of thing is useful.

[Chara]

i was referring to the slots reads as a whole. i don't remember all of Mathdino's reads, but i did remember Kmd hard-townreading Mulch, same as me.
it was mostly snark, as i think the reads Kmd has pushed have been wrong. especially now, as their best-guess scum is me, Spiff, and Cheetory of all players. as well as the Cabd thing.

[Kmd4390]

I don't have cheet as scum.

My top three are probably you, unabomb, and implosion.

[Ginngie]

Cheet should know why i don’t do this as town

He’s seen me get absolutely fucked over with my team

I seriously don’t post

I don’t play

I give up

You see me say it a lot but this game largely is my ego

I’m not joking there, the better my side does

The cockier I am

If my side gets its shit kicked in, then I’m high key upset

I feel like everything is ruined, one reason i actually hate scum

Is because i hate that feeling that everything is over



Also this is really important for you to understand here.

You say the chance of me being not lynched this game is slim to none

But the thing is, I’m never lynched as town my dude

Literally only once, you’d be smart to listen to the people that actually play with me

I’m high key a transparent player regarding both town/scum

Also one final thing, literally go fuck off.

If and only if you meet these two conditions:
1. You think Ginngie and mastina would be smart enough to gambit as final scum to pull off a win comeback style
2. You think Ginngie and mastina would be dumb enough to gambit as final scum that gurauntees my lynch

If you actually hold the notion that we are simultaneously smart and also dumb then you need to check yourself for being intellectually dishonest with yourself and the others in this game.

@Cheetory

Im serious, I would really love for you to tell me how much I playing like Real Folks Blues Day 7

[Ginngie]

Btw Patrick, i answered all this and the reason I’m saying all this and asking cheet directly is because he is the rare few that got a scum game with me and also saw me in near the end game and how much I don’t actually play and give up.

He of all people should be able to differentiate the difference here and it bothers me that he doesn’t

[Cheetory6]

Vote me.

[Cheetory6]

Cheet should know why i don’t do this as town

Also gg.

[Ginngie]

Lmao

Point still stands

[Ginngie]

If you could not avoid the question

[Chara]

hey, you're both probably town, and can we not.

[UnaBombaH]

None of the above actually contradicts my thought that Ginngie got unmotivated, and went with the all or nothing "scorched earth, burn the bridges" -approach once her buddies went down so early.

[UnaBombaH]

My favorite thing from the last pages was kmd theorizing that Cabd would've crumbed for me to claim a FN-result

[UnaBombaH]

so you're saying you think Cabd decided to fakeclaim BP instead after the kill failed?

pedit: if Una doesn't have a claim that warrants his behaviour, he's done.

I'm only slightly worried..

Mainly that the roles wouldn't make sense.

[Ginngie]

Great job Una

You decided to completely ignore everything else i talked about you

[UnaBombaH]

Didn't read anything worth me commenting.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Una

One of those things is literally you saying who scum is

[Spiffeh]

V/LA til Wednesday the 14th

I have 7.2 million things to do in the next 48 hours

Also I'm not scum so anyone keeping me in consideration is welcome to write me off as town to make mine and your lives easier

I promise I'll try to find the remaining scum Wednesday

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I more or less think everything you just posted is wrong, in particular this idea that anyone is calling you dumb if you're scum, because nobody is saying that.
It's just if you're town, then you pulled the dumbest thing I've ever seen in the most inappropriate setting possible. There is no "Ginngie and mastina are both dumb and smart", there's "townGinngie and their team are fucking garbage at mafia" and "scumGinngie and their team are pulling a gambit that would have been driven mainly by desperation". Kind of baffling that you can't grasp this.

Plus this idea that because in one game, which was an melodramatic slog in which you didn't have four other people you could rely on/talk to/motivate you, where you lurked it out as scum, that means you HAVE to be town here because there's no way that you could be trying harder here because hey what's the point of context right? I really don't see why there's any reason to exclude you from being scum because of a weak sampling of meta.
This is the game to tryhard as scum.
Your teammates are the teammates who are going to push for tryharding as scum.

A lot of this is moot because I don't really want to lynch you.
But it is really funny that you're trying to shade me right now.
If you really are scum, I recommend trying to pitch me as scum. It makes it a lot easier for me to not care about parsing someone when they push obviously townMe as scum.
(:

I'm also not unvoting you.

Reck wants a massclaim because we can lose info with the nightkill and the slots that are more likely to be lynched are more likely to get sorted via nightkill/can be properly targeted by PRs.
Kind of leaning that way atm too because the only lynch I can really imagine getting behind right now is Aristophanes and that's partially because it seems like he's started intentionally lurking this game out.

[Cheetory6]

And maybe massclaim will make figuring out who to lynch easier via gameplanning things?
I feel like the biggest threat to the PR squad was the roleblock and now that it's gone and there's only one scum left we can probably figure out a gamewinning strategy with a massclaim.

[Spiffeh]

I am down for a mass claim

[Ginngie]

UNA IGNORES EVERYTHING BAD ABOUT HIS PLAY TODAY

HI

CAN WE PLEASE NOTICE THIS

THANK YOU