Rocky Horror Picture Show - players suck, game over

[Lifthrasil]

Hiya! Let's get the show rolling!

[Lifthrasil]

^ cult master 1/2 found

If you're so sure, why not emphasize that conviction with a vote?

[Lifthrasil]

So I asked the mod a couple questions about my wincon:

So by my understanding all of the 22 survivors in this game are aligned with each-other, meaning we can all consider ourselves to be on the same faction. If the survivors stay in the majority by the end of the game and that cannot change, all the living survivors win the game. I deduce that we also lose if we are no longer the majority.

I think that it is inherently WRONG to end Day 1 early because of this, because we really should just "scumhunt" the two cult leaders TODAY, WHILE THEY HAVE NO TEAMMATES, so that we can single them out for any roles that are in the game to hopefully neutralise them.

I agree to this. Ending Day 1 prematurely just gives the Cult Leaders a free conversion. However, finding them on Day 1 is going to be difficult since they, having probably no team-mates, will lack any interactions with other players that feel different than those with the rest. (I.e. they aren't aligned to anyone yet)

[Lifthrasil]

^ cult master 1/2 found

If you're so sure, why not emphasize that conviction with a vote?

why.......either this is really derpy or he's trying to bait a vote

Oh, you noticed? Congratulations! Here, have a trophy: http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh43 ... _lrg-1.jpg

[Lifthrasil]

Cults are founded to worship devil's.

How do you know what the cults in this game are founded for? Are you the founding member of one?

[Lifthrasil]

I'm not entirely sure what the votes are worth on Day 1. All we know is, that the person who got a majority didn't change alignment during the next pause. The Cult Leaders know who's immune as well and will target someone else. But we have no information about the alignment of the votee to start with.

I really hope that we do have some investigative power roles around here!

[Lifthrasil]

Who is my buddy?

Either everyone who is a neutral survivor - or everyone in your cult. So, which one is it?

[Lifthrasil]

I can be your buddy.

Who is my buddy?

Either everyone who is a neutral survivor - or everyone in your cult. So, which one is it?

You are the first one to take this stance.
I don’t like it. Your perspective feels off. You jumped up to vig target #1

D I S A G R E E
What's scummy about having original thought?

It’s not that it’s original it’s the mind set of it.

When I asked who wants to be my buddy people said “me”. My POV it looks like I’m alone and don’t want to be.

His perspective wasn’t that. His was “you are neutral or cult.” That just felt like a different perspective from a neutral who is all alone looking for a buddy.

Well, might I ask you to read the game description again? You ARE either neutral or cult! You cannot be anything else. And right now with your twisting and bread-crumbing to have a PR (no, please don't make that a real claim, it's much to early to claim), I'm leaning that you are cult.

Vecna's plan to bring two people to L-1 and force the CL's to make a decision doesn't read that bad, actually. It only hinges on the one in charge not being a CL himself. And it would be sensible play for a CL to suggest exactly such a play, putting himself in charge. Then again, the only person a 'town' or rather neutral person can trust is oneself as well. So the fact that Vecna tries to put himself in charge doesn't necessarily mean he's a CL, but as of now I don't trust him enough to go along with the plan.

One thing occurred to me: vote hopping might actually not be bad in this game. The play phase ends when someone reaches majority. So the CLs have to decide on a recruitment target before that - so bringing someone to L-1 and then hopping off, immunizing someone else might increase our chances. But this would run the danger of one CL recruiting someone who isn't at L-1 and then hammering. So probably the best for now is to immunize someone who is a good player and who feels 'towny'.

Gamma is one of the few players I have played with, so far, and seems to be his normal self as far as I can tell. Therefore:

vote GammaEmerald

Btw. I will be afk for the evening and most of tomorrow.

[Lifthrasil]

Toucha toucha toucha touuuch me.

I wanna be dirty!


I'm back. And I have two questions. One was asked before, but I didn't find an answer to it: what's the deal with these HURT / HEAL tags? The other: what's a virgin in the context of this forum or game?

Moreover: there was some discussion about the winnability of the game from the neutral (town) side. I'm quite sure that drealmer took care of that. Sure, without PRs and with no lynching town would automatically lose. The 'making one person immune' wouldn't help in the long run, since we can expect two conversion attempts per pause. But he already hinted in the signup thread that there will be deaths and we had a softclaim of a vig already. Also there will be more PRs who might be able to kill, protect or investigate. Also, since this is drealmer who's running the game, I also expect that there will be some non-standard PRs who can do all sorts of theme-fitting shenanigans.

So, what I'm trying to say: don't assume too much on Day 1. We don't have much information so all boils down to the usual WIFOM. We try to immunize someone, who we think the CLs might try to recruit. Alternatively we immunize someone who we are reasonably sure is towny, so that his alignment can't change over the pause phase. After the first pause we will probably have more information about this game setup.

[Lifthrasil]

Anyone still up?

Yeah, hey christi

So what do you think, should we have one wagon, multiple wagons, does it matter?

Yes, I think it does matter. I guess for now multiple wagons aren't bad, but eventually we should bring someone to L-1 ... and then immunize someone else. Or not. In any case force the CLs to make a decision or risk wasting their shot and then try to foil that decision.

Therefore, to further the wagon forming stuff:

unvote GammaEmerald
vote Almost50

[Lifthrasil]

Holy shit a new guy talking.

And an old player not answering to the questions of the new guy.

[Lifthrasil]

pictures and gifs are A-O-K

What's that about one of the German health insurances? ( http://aok.de )

[Lifthrasil]

Evidently the vig sucks

Why?

[Lifthrasil]

It's PAUSE, our votes don't matter.
I'm bummed out, I didn't get recruited during PLAY phase

And we should believe you ... why exactly?

[Lifthrasil]

It means the vig sucks.

Or the vig just doesn't care about whom you 'mark'. Especially since your choice of marks wasn't exactly well founded.

[Lifthrasil]

HURT: Venmar

But since you seem to be one of the few players, who actually answers to questions, I'll repeat a question from earlier: what's the deal with these 'HURT' tags? Is that just some thing you do around here in the forum? Or does that have any relevance?

[Lifthrasil]

@Cerberus: sorry! You're right.

@Thread: I wonder if there is any Deprogrammer or something. There must be a way for us to combat the cults apart from the immunizing vote. Otherwise the neutral faction loses automatically.
*sigh* I wish this was an open setup. Cult games can work out with a (mostly) open setup, but right now I have the feeling that we are very much shooting in the dark.

Also: please end this pause!

VOTE: RESUME PLAY!

[Lifthrasil]

note:

on the chance that 2 actions are submitted that have the same timestamp, I will queue them in the order that they appear in my INBOX (first received first, of course)

Do we get any flavour (may be pure fluff) what happened while we paused?

Also:

vote Almost50

- we know he didn't change alignment during the pause. Let's keep it that way for now.

[Lifthrasil]

Is Lifthrasil being a dipshit or have I been a dipshit this entire game?

Dammit. I am. Sorry.

unvote Almost50

Vote Lifthrasil

I'm 100% sure of my alignment, so please immunize me!

[Lifthrasil]

Why did I not get recruited?

You didn't? Are you sure about that?

Btw. Varsoon also complained about not having been recruited. What's with that around here? Do you really think it makes you look more towny? Or did you actually wish to be recruited - which in turn means, that you don't like playing for town (neutral). I think one should play for the side one is currently on and not banking on getting recruited. Otherwise you're hurting your side.

[Lifthrasil]

CAN NOBODY ELSE SEE VARSOON IS BEING PURPOSEFULLY OBTUSE??

I had the impression too. And going over the mechanics explanation, it actually would make sense for us to vote as quickly as possible. It's pointless to hope that one immunizes someone who has been targeted by a CL - that wouldn't rob the CL of the conversion, it would rob us of an immunization. So voting ASAP after the play resumes and getting to the next pause before the CLs get a chance to send in a conversion target would be good play for town. It's too late to do that in this play phase, but it's something to keep in mind.

unvote Lifthrasil
vote Inferno390

[Lifthrasil]

All i know is if I keep my abilities after getting recruited, ah man, that’s so cool. But for that full effect to be there, I need to be recruited early. My objective is to make sure I win, and with alignment changes, one has to take that into consideration.

So do abilities go away if recruited?

So, you ARE advertising that you want to be recruited and you are fishing for other PRs. If someone would reply to your question about whether his powers would go away or not, they would reveal that they have powers...

@all others: let's get this over with. Vote Inferno now and in the next play phase let's vote as quickly as possible to try to immunize enough people that the game becomes unwinnable for the cults. Unless, of course, someone has a better strategy.

[Lifthrasil]

Whatever.

Unvote
VOTE: Porkens

[Lifthrasil]

Btw. Am I the only one who thinks that there is far too little Rocky Horror Picture Show for a Rocky Horror Picture Show game? Let's change that:

"It's astounding,
Time is fleeting
Madness ... takes it's toll!
But listen closely..."

[Lifthrasil]

"I've got to...keep control..."

IMMUNITY VOTE #2

-
Porkens - 6 - Chickadee, Varsoon, Porkens, Gamma Emerald, SnarkySnowman, Lifthrasil,

Inferno390 - 4 - Inferno390, Almost50, Lifthrasil, northsidegal, Ms Columbo,

JaydragonKing - 1 - TheGoldenParadox,

Vecna - 1 - Creature,

-

it currently takes 13 votes on 1 player to attempt to make them immune to recruitment

if I have your vote in the wrong spot please let me know via PM

I'm a madman, doing the Time Warp!

...and I'm seeing myself double in your vote list. The numbers seem to be correct, but my name is still in the Inferno line.

[Lifthrasil]

@Gamma: thanks for the notice.

[Lifthrasil]

I'm a madman, doing the Time Warp!

hmmm...that's not quite the next line....has the cult gotten to you, Lift?

Drinking those moments when...

The blackness would hit me
And the void would be calling:

(no, but I like that version. We used it when performing the Rocky Horror Show in school. I was Riff-Raff)

[Lifthrasil]

Oh man could it be that it's a nightless game where town has no agency/lynch in which there have been no flips so far?
That could never be a nightmare for activity.

Hm. No feedback for Town. We have no way of analyzing trains, since we get no reliable information. Town isn't even defined as town but as a bunch of neutral survivors, which in turn leads to some playing their own game and intentionally trying to get recruited... you might be on to something there. The only thing we can work with are the posts of the various people - so the cults can very well try to lurk their way to victory. And we have no lynches with which we can exert pressure on lurkers.

[Lifthrasil]

Idiotic.
This game is frickin' idiotic.
We know almost nothing, goddamn it.
How the

h-e-double-hockey-sticks

are we supposed to do any-frickin'-thing?
There's no kills, no fun things, nothing. This game is boring as heck.
Let's do something about it. I don't care if it's playing against wincon, because in this state of the game
a) first of all we didn't have wincon in our role PMs
b) with the amount of info we have, we really don't know if it's for or against wincon.
I suggest we massclaim. Who's with me?

We can do that if the majority is for it. I only see one drawback: if everyone claims, then the cults will know who is recruitable and who not. That increases their chances of recruiting - and I don't like that.

This Pause out of the blue without any warning sucks. Let's vote quicker next time.

[Lifthrasil]

Whats an avatar?

Something like a Paladin!

[Lifthrasil]

Let’s do the time warp again

It's just a jump to the left -

[Lifthrasil]

game is in pause just chill out and stop posting

Why? Pause just means that no actions can be sent in and that no votes will be counted, not that we shouldn't post. At least that's how I understood it.

[Lifthrasil]

Clearly you sent your action before me, so your fine...

Her fine for what? Has she been fined for something?

SCNR

[Lifthrasil]

How else are we supposed to keep cults from snatching people up? If anyone can make a big orgy happen, do it!

Oh yes! An orgy sounds awesome!

[Lifthrasil]

This game was not advertised as a mature player's game and there is quite a bit of NSFW content here, which I will never join a game with.
I will replace out if this continues. This is not meant as a threat. However, there are definitely quite a few minors on this site. I refuse to play a game with this much sexual content in it.

That's funny. You enter a game based on a musical about transsexual transvestites where most of the actors run around in lingerie, with the main figure seducing everything he can, and then you complain about mild sexuality. Nice joke.

At least I hope this was a joke. It's on par with complaining about the mentioning of organized crime in a regular mafia play or complaining about 'horror' themes in a werewolf game.

[Lifthrasil]

I don’t like the idea of limiting ourselves like that, but I do like the idea of getting down to business.

I can protect someone from being recruited but they won’t be able to do anything if they have an ability. Just FYI.
I’m
Just going to claim the other part of my role since I don’t have to worry about being killed by scum. I’m a pack of wild dogs. I’m addition to big shots, I can also chase someone, which means they cannot use actions and actions cannot be taken against them. That also means that they cannot be immunized while they are being chased. So it’s wise not to vote that person for immunizations. It’s also limited #. I have yet to use any of those but do plan to use one in the next phase and will announce.

You seem familiar with the show, do you have an idea how a pack of wild dogs fits with this theme? Except perhaps metaphorically?

There is a scene in the movie where Rocky breaks his chains and escapes, whereupon Magenta releases the dogs who chase him back to the castle.

Two questions: what is a geriatric ruleset? And how would a game within the game work?

[Lifthrasil]

A geriatric ruleset is one where you can make a max of 10 posts a day and have a "reserve" of 20 posts that you can dip into if you exceed your daily limit.

Ah thanks. In that case, no, I'm against doing that. Too much activity isn't exactly one of the problems of this thread!

[Lifthrasil]

OK, so Porkens, just to be sure your sentence 'no PMs or anything' means that you didn't get a message saying you were immunized?

If that's so, we might as well finish the train on Porkens to make the immunization final.

VOTE: Porkens

[Lifthrasil]

OK, so Porkens, just to be sure your sentence 'no PMs or anything' means that you didn't get a message saying you were immunized?

If that's so, we might as well finish the train on Porkens to make the immunization final.

VOTE: Porkens

Almost has already confirmed you don't even get a PM when immunised by vote. So what's the point of voting Porken's to immunisation?



To be honest, I don't think many people understand the optimal way of voting. We should be voting for the people who are likely to be recruited. The very fact that the flavour MAY be a sign that Porkens is immune to recruitment means that the cults probably won't target him. Do you really think the cults are going to risk missing out on an extra recruitment for a player like Porkens? I've never played a game with him in the past but my impression is no.

I don't think we should be voting inferno today either. Like no offence to him but some things he has done HAS been kinda scummy. This means he shouldn't be voted for 2 reasons. First of all, he is a possible vig target. What's the point of immunising someone if they are just going to get killed? Secondly, cults aren't going to recruit people who have received heat are they?

I'm not trying to dictate who we should be voting for, but I just feel that very little thought is actually going into who we immunise and that feels scum driven. Y'all can vote for these 2 if you want but I won't be. We shouldn't be voting randomly and I'd prefer it if we chose a new target for the immunisation.

My point was, as explained yesterday, to close a train fast - if the first half of the players who appear after play resumes manage to immunize someone and we are lucky enough that the CLs or at least one CL belongs to the second half of players who appear later - then they miss out on the chance to convert someone. Especially with a more than half finished train at Play-start, that could have worked. But by now too much time passed for that.

Also I disagree on not voting randomly. Without any actual knowledge who is cult and who not, voting randomly isn't that bad. The point is, if we immunize someone who has a high chance to be recruited, that one also has a high chance of being already recruited. Remember, if the recruitment post comes before the immunization train closes, it is still valid. That means if we successfully 'immunize' someone who has been targeted by a CL - the immunization does nothing. All we achieve with that is losing one immunization shot. So, wouldn't it be better to use the first few cycles to immunize as many 'second tier' players as we can to secure a town/neutral base? And treat those who have a high probability of being recruited as 'probably cult by now'?

Another thing that for me personally makes the voting quite random is, that I hardly know anyone and without any flips it is very difficult to crosscheck your play and arguments against some solid facts. So it's slow learning in this game. So, in conclusion, I'm basically OK with voting anyone that hasn't set off any scum-flags so far. And since you might be right and voting Porkens isn't getting us anywhere:

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Lifthrasil]

If whoever caused the phaseshift to happen last play is still a survivor you should probably get in contact, so I can attempt vote vs cult recruitment shenanigans and at least try to get a good outcome........but otherwise theres just no point in trying to slow this down and risk a repeat of yesterday.

I don't think that whoever caused the phase shift is still neutral. Ending a phase before an immunization can happen is quite a cult thing to do.

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Prepare for another long pause. (probably, considering the first two pauses)

[Lifthrasil]

'bout time
And an actual roleflip

But no alignment flip. I mean, we can assume that a dog cannot be recruited to be a groupie, but it would have been nice to have a confirmation of alignment.

[Lifthrasil]

Seeing that we don't have any actualy way of fighting them (apart from vig shots), cult may very well try to lurk their way to victory. So converting low-activity players is a valid strategy. Of course, going for known strong players who then influence the game in favour of their cult would be a valid strategy too. Which one of these strategies the cults choose is pure speculation.

All in all this game is a demonstration of why most games have some mechanic to encourage lurkers to participate. (prodding, penalties, whatever)

[Lifthrasil]

Yes, if Vecna is the one who ended the second 'Day' prematurely before we could finish the immunization, then he's definitely scum. That was not a 'town' move! (I know, I know, formally it's neutral, but you know what I mean)

[Lifthrasil]

Ahh yes of course.

Did they say at the end that she was related to Rocky or half of him or something? I was confused at that part.

Nah, she just had a relationship with Eddy. Actually she left Frank for Eddie - which is why Frank gets jealous and kills Eddy eventually.

[Lifthrasil]

Lol you say eventually as though Eddie had much screen time.

Well, he had that one motorcycle ride and then he was present at the dinner - even if not alive anymore.

[Lifthrasil]

Top tho

We're SO proud of you!


But there isn't enough party going on around here. Come on, let's rock!

Whatever happened to Saturday night?
When you dressed up sharp and you felt alright
It don't seem the same since cosmic light
Came into my life, I thought I was divine
I used to go for a ride with a chick who'd go
And listen to the music on the radio
A saxophone was blowing on a rock and roll show
We climbed in the back seat, really had a good time

::Hot patootie, bless my soul
Really love that rock and roll::

My head used to swim from the perfume I smelled
My hands kinda fumbled with her white plastic belt
I'd taste her baby pink lipstick and that's when I'd melt
She'd whisper in my ear tonight she really was mine
Get back in front and put some hair oil on
Buddy Holly was singing his very last song
With your arms around your girl, you try to sing along
It felt pretty good, woo
Really had a good time

::Hot patootie, bless my soul
Really love that rock and roll::

[Lifthrasil]

Skillful way....

You beat the other girls to the bride’s bouquet!

The river was deep, but I swam it!

Janet

The future is our's so let's plan it!

[Lifthrasil]

Lets try a thing

No. The Thing is a completely different movie!

[Lifthrasil]

I an state at least two things wrong with this is this is true

What?


Also
VOTE: Lifthrasil

[Lifthrasil]

Why do you want to be immunised?

Why not? I don't want to be cult. There are two cults, at least one will lose. So if I get recruited, there is a more than 50% chance that I will be forced into the losing team. But if I manage to stay neutral and survive until the end of the game, as a neutral survivor (like most of us were initially) I guess I win. Also, we have to vote someone and by now I'm the only one of whose alignment I can be sure.

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: Lift
don't see why not

How about how self-votes are inherently scummy, especially if they are the start of your own wagon? He could very well be a cult member trying to get us to waste an immunisation on him. I'm more comfortable with other people suggesting wagons on people. Sure, they can still be influenced by cults, but at least then we can form more probable associations and if we see someone trying to push someone else too much we can take it as a sign they are a cult with them.

Well, by now we can assume that the cults have more than one member each. So cultists can just as easily start a train on one of their buddies. Therefore I disagree with your assessment and stick to my vote, since, as I said, I can be sure of my own alignment.

[Lifthrasil]

Why are we voting Venmar though? I thought he was a good cult recruit choice.

I thought so too. He's one of the players where I got an odd vibe. But you all know him better than me.

Happy Birthday, mutant!

[Lifthrasil]

What's the point of voting V? Can someone doing it explain it to me?

[Lifthrasil]

Yes, that's true. We are very low on actual information and I don't really know how to play a game that has hardly any feedback.

[Lifthrasil]

Aw shit, it's my scumday.

What is a scumday? The day where you were recruited as scum? Or something like a birthday? In that case: happy scumday!

[Lifthrasil]

What are sheep votes?

[Lifthrasil]

What are sheep votes?

Following, or copying.

Ah, thanks!

[Lifthrasil]

Suuuuure. It's not like you haven't self-voted or suggested we vote you or questioned why we're not voting you several times before.

I have self-voted and I still would like to be immunized. You argued that that is scummy, but I still don't agree to that reasoning.

[Lifthrasil]

It could be scum baiting immunize votes

I know. But so could be any other train. And honestly, I don't know who to vote for. You seem to be playing your normal town game, but you don't want to be immunized. I don't want to vote Venmar or Srceenplay and I have no read whatsoever on Boonskiies. ...

Ah well, without a successful vote this play phase might never end and the game might become even more stuck than it is already. So I'll just tag along on Boon.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Lifthrasil]

Or one could ask the mod. ... Survivors win, when no cult has the possibility to outnumber the survivors. (paraohrased what the mod said when I asked)
That means, that the game ends when all remaining players are either in a cult or are immune and no killing shots are left.

[Lifthrasil]

Can someone please finish the train on Boon, so that the game can progress? Or, if you have reasons not to, share those reasons?

[Lifthrasil]

I don't want to vote boonskies because our immunity giving is finite and I'm not comfortable with him as non cult.

Then who would you feel comfortable voting for?

[Lifthrasil]

OR cult could have recruited them and THEN he could have been wagoned.

But in any case we can assume that the scum buddies of boon were on his train. No matter whether he was already recruited when the train started or whether the recruitment was decided after the train got traction. Perhaps 'after the train got traction' is even a good assumption, seeing how fast it evolved.
"Hey, there is a train forming." --> "Let's recruit him."-->"Now let's make sure that this train remains the only viable one."

But the second cult probably didn't know that Boon was cult. So no information on in which half of the players they were, the voting ones or the non-voting ones.

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: chick

Why?

[Lifthrasil]

I think that mutant is right on this. We got the 'information' that only virgins are recruitable from the voice and we have established, that the voice is not infallible. There is nothing in the rules saying that only virgins can be recruited. So it's dangerous to assume that anyone who isn't a virgin gets a free pass.

However, it would be strange flavour wise to say that a pack of dogs can become a groupie. The only question is: do the rules always follow the flavour? I think it's a valid assumption that a pack of dogs can't be a groupie. But keep in mind that it is only an assumption.

Somehow I get the impression, that mutant is actually trying to make sense of the game and to make progress. That doesn't necessarily mean he's neutral. He might as well be cult scum-hunting for members of the other cult. But well, we have to vote someone and I think mutant is a better choice than venmar.

VOTE: mutant

[Lifthrasil]

Dont immunize me please, if I can actually still be recruited i wanna be part of the cool guys club now.

Ya'll are boring, maybe some scheming in a cult chat will liven things up.

I have the feeling that this might be some kind of reverse LAMIST statement. "Hey, I don't want to be town any more but I totally am! For realz!"

...but then again, scum doesn't gain much from being viewed as town unless they draw a vote on them. So pretending to be town while saying 'but don't vote for me' would be sub-optimal play and if Vecna actually is still neutral, then he would deserve to be voted for for this comment and be stuck with us other boring neutrals forever!

[Lifthrasil]

Lifthrasil, you are as neutral as I am potato.

You're a potato? But there is no potato in RHPS! So 'potato' is unlikely to be your role and you can't be a potato in real life, since potatos can't write. So, your statement is false!

[Lifthrasil]

Lifthrasil, you are as neutral as I am potato.

You're a potato? But there is no potato in RHPS! So 'potato' is unlikely to be your role and you can't be a potato in real life, since potatos can't write. So, your statement is false!

Vecna already claimed to be lips.

You don't say? You mean he DIDN'T want to claim potato with that line? But... but, what else could he POSSIBLY have meant?

[Lifthrasil]

Lifthrasil, you are as neutral as I am potato.

You're a potato? But there is no potato in RHPS! So 'potato' is unlikely to be your role and you can't be a potato in real life, since potatos can't write. So, your statement is false!

Vecna already claimed to be lips.

You don't say? You mean he DIDN'T want to claim potato with that line? But... but, what else could he POSSIBLY have meant?

He's saying he's not a potato so you're not a neutral
I mean you made the point without getting the thing he was pointing to...

Lift is being sarcastic...he get's it.

Thank you! At least one person here understands sarcasm and hyperbole. I'm relieved, Chick and Gamma already made me fear that I had dropped into a pocket dimension where everything is taken depressingly literal.

[Lifthrasil]

Lifthrasil, you are as neutral as I am potato.

You're a potato? But there is no potato in RHPS! So 'potato' is unlikely to be your role and you can't be a potato in real life, since potatos can't write. So, your statement is false!

Vecna already claimed to be lips.

You don't say? You mean he DIDN'T want to claim potato with that line? But... but, what else could he POSSIBLY have meant?

He's saying he's not a potato so you're not a neutral
I mean you made the point without getting the thing he was pointing to...

Just to make sure that I get the point across, even in literal country: yes, Ms Columbo is right. I got the point quite well and I responded in kind. Since you and Chick seem to like explanations, here a step-by-step explanation of the underlying thought process:
Vecna used a comparison to state, that he believes I'm not neutral. "You are as neutral as I am a potato." - Of course he meant that, him being not a potato, I am not neutral. Anyone with half a brain would understand that. But since I know that I am neutral I turned the comparison around. If he were as potato as I am neutral, he would have to be a potato. Which he isn't. Therefore his statement 'You are as neutral as I am potato' was false. Get it now?

[Lifthrasil]

Concerning votes: I won't vote Venmar or Srceenplay. Those two come across as quite scummy.
I am voting mutant and think he's a decent choice since he is one of the few players coming across as actually somewhat towny. I would also vote myself (I know, some of you say that's scummy. I don't agree, since my alignment is the only one I can be sure of). And I would vote Ms Columbo. I don't see why some read her as scummy. She doesn't seem that different from her usual town play - but she has fooled me in the past. As a 'last straw' fallback solution I would also be willing to vote Vecna, just out of spite because he doesn't want to be immunized.

[Lifthrasil]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

They don't. Normal, more solid reads, are based on train analysis. At least that's what I usually try to do. We can't analyze most of the trains and generally other rules apply. So all we're left with is a feeling. That makes this game difficult. And the lack of participation enforcement and deadlines makes it s-l-o-o-o-w. Nico has a grand total of one post and Cheeky's last participation is more than two weeks ago. In a normal game they would have been modkilled or lynched for lurking long ago.

[Lifthrasil]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

They don't. Normal, more solid reads, are based on train analysis. At least that's what I usually try to do. We can't analyze most of the trains and generally other rules apply. So all we're left with is a feeling. That makes this game difficult. And the lack of participation enforcement and deadlines makes it s-l-o-o-o-w. Nico has a grand total of one post and Cheeky's last participation is more than two weeks ago. In a normal game they would have been modkilled or lynched for lurking long ago.

So you're saying that nobody is utilizing any sort of rational system to determine who they believe is or isn't trustworthy?

No, I can't say that. I don't know how rational the others are. I'm saying that my usual rational rating system failed in this game and that I am basing my readings mostly on feeling. And I guess I'm not the only ones, when I look at the posts that seem to give readings mostly by instinct. How about you? Do you have rational readings or do you play by feeling too?

[Lifthrasil]

Takes Varsoon's dead body and saws it in half

fuck you

Necrophiliac caught!

(Wait! That's not the definition of necrophilia! Carry on.)

Depends on which half Gamma fu... ahem.

[Lifthrasil]

This game has a person in it that has posted once, 25 days ago

And I thought I was bad!

Going to see if I can finally catch up tonight.

Don't fret. Even our mod seems to have given up on this game and is missing since more than 4 days.

So, how do we proceed? Do we proceed? We seem to be unable to reach a consensus on whom to immunize and without that consensus the 'play' phase doesn't end and no powers are processed and the game doesn't proceed. Unless one of the people with time-warp power end the play phase prematurely, which would be bad for town (neutral), since it leads to one missed immunization chance.

How about we call it a draw and let the game rest in peace?

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Who did the Time Warp again?

[Lifthrasil]

I mean, theres only 2 pages since someone very blatantly signaled what was about to happen, but I guess reading even a page a week is hard.

So your 'Stop, Hammertime?' was an announcement that you would end the Day soon?

[Lifthrasil]

I recall a stop, but no hammer.

Stop hammer time is a lie.

Just in case that that wasn't a joke (you can never tell around here), I was referring to this post: viewtopic.php?p=9988599#p9988599

[Lifthrasil]

T'was joke.

I thought so. But since we have two very literal minded players, I wanted to make sure to avoid misunderstandings.

[Lifthrasil]

All y'all talking motherfuckers are cult members by now. Everyone that is still a survivor has long abandoned mission.

Since you are still talking AND you say that ALL those who are still talking are cult, this line is basically an admission, that you yourself are cult. Isn't it? Fits with ending the play phase prematurely. Again.

[Lifthrasil]

All y'all talking motherfuckers are cult members by now. Everyone that is still a survivor has long abandoned mission.

Can confirm this is true for me.

You confirm that you are in a cult?

[Lifthrasil]

@Srceenplay: I'm surprised, but thanks.

@Gamma: why? Do you only vote for players in your cult-group? Or do you really think me a cultist?

[Lifthrasil]

@People voting Venmar: why? He basically admitted that he was the one who stopped the Day prematurely. Yes, the play was boring but ending the Day without an immunization helps scum. Also he inderectly stated that he is in a cult. He said that in his opinion ALL town player have checked out and the ONLY ones still playing are cult. He is still playing. So his assumption only makes sense if he is cult.

So, why are you voting him? Is it because you are in his cult? Or because you just want this game to be over, no matter who wins and you're fine with handing him and his cult the win?

[Lifthrasil]

@People voting Venmar: why? He basically admitted that he was the one who stopped the Day prematurely. Yes, the play was boring but ending the Day without an immunization helps scum. Also he inderectly stated that he is in a cult. He said that in his opinion ALL town player have checked out and the ONLY ones still playing are cult. He is still playing. So his assumption only makes sense if he is cult.

So, why are you voting him? Is it because you are in his cult? Or because you just want this game to be over, no matter who wins and you're fine with handing him and his cult the win?

im not even playing that much and this confuses me. please point to the posts where i admitted to or said ANY of this. are you confusing me with varsoon?

He's getting you and Vecna mixed up.

Ooops. Yes, indeed I am. Sorry! Venmar/Vecna ... kind of confusing. Sorry, I take my critique back. Fine, I'll sheep along. Quite fitting after having made such a sheepish error.

VOTE: Venmar

[Lifthrasil]

Boonskiies - 12 - Gamma Emerald, Varsoon,

Lifthrasil,

Cerberus v666, Chickadee,

Almost 50,

Srceenplay, mutandevle,

Ms Columbo,

Drixx,

Porkens, TheGoldenParadox

immunity vote #4

-

Venmar - 7 -

Almost50,

Nancy Drew 39,

Ms Columbo,

Chickadee,

Porkens

, mutantdevle, Gamma Emerald, venmar

, Lift,

TGP

UNVOTE:
fuck no

This IS a SCUM CLAIM for all practical reasons. Gamma was the FIRST ONE to vote Boon, but is accusing others of being scum

Why would I draw attention to this as cult?

Because if you were cult and venmar town, then you wouldn't want him to be immunized. If you (or your CL) already submitted whom you try to convert today. Cults want immunizations to fail, obviously.

Also your argument for excluding Chick doesn't work. Her shooting Boon does make sense if she is scum quite as much as if she is town. Scum-Chick would be quite happy to shoot somebode from the other scum-team. So her killing scum doesn't make her town. Her role might, if flavour dictates the rules. But that's an IF that wasn't confirmed yet.

[Lifthrasil]

So gamma got caught up, right?

Kind of. At least to me it looks like he's scum together with Chick. I might be wrong, but that's the impression I get from this exchange.

[Lifthrasil]

I took it. Probably shot wrong, but I took it.

Did you shoot me? Please tell me you shot me!

[Lifthrasil]

I spy with my little eye something that's grey.

[Lifthrasil]

@Chickadee: can't you just send in a generic action like 'Kill all cultists' so that the game is finally done?

[Lifthrasil]

Too bad. I'm a bit bored with this game.

...and the fact that I'm mostly waiting for my simulation to finish while writing a publication doesn't help either.

[Lifthrasil]

fine fuck it
VOTE: Nancy Drew

Her. Not 'it'!

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Looking at how the wagon developed either Nancy is scum and everyone from her team jumped on her wagon to speed it up. Or almost everyone is beyond caring and just wants this play phase to be done. Whatever, I would still prefer to be immunized myself but that's not going to happen in this game. So let's end this game one way or the other. If the immunization on Nancy is wasted, I'll just hope that Chick hit some scum when she used her shot. The game is probably anyhow won or lost by dumb luck deciding which PR actions go through. Not by the votes any more at this point.

VOTE: Nancy Drew

[Lifthrasil]

L-1 if I counted correctly.

[Lifthrasil]

Well, now we wait for drealmer.

Meanwhile, happy birthday, Srceenplay! Even though you are probably scum.

[Lifthrasil]

Well, now we wait for drealmer.

Meanwhile, happy birthday, Srceenplay! Even though you are probably scum.

Why are you only saying this about screen now...

You aren't really reading what I write, are you? Or you read and forget. Not that I take offense at that, in a game that drags on so much it's hard to remember who has written what. So as a reminder: I have pegged Srceenplay as scummy for quite a while now. - That doesn't mean that I don't agree with him that you feel scummy too. Don't know whether you are on opposing teams or whether his observation that you appear scummy was meant as distancing, but he had a point.

[Lifthrasil]

[Lifthrasil]

Porkens was a bad choice, ...

Only for town. But if Chickadee is scum, it's a valid choice for her.

[Lifthrasil]

Kill them all

Was that a public command to the minions of your cult?

[Lifthrasil]

immunity vote #4

-

Nancy Drew 39 - 11 - northsidegal, Porkens, Srceenplay, Gamma Emerald, TheGoldenParadox, mutantdevle, Ms Columbo, Almost50, Lifthrasil, Chickadee, Nancy Drew 39,

Venmar - 1 - Venmar,

Vecna - 1 - SnarkySnowman,

-

it takes 11 votes on 1 player to attempt to make them immune to recruitment

Am I now, the last one to have been immunized?

The latest one, yes. Unless you were recruited before the train finished. Or something else prevented your immunization. But why the 'last' one? Are we out of immunization shots? Do you know something we don't?

[Lifthrasil]

Did the mod confirm to you?

No, but apparently one needs 11 or more votes, and I counted exactly 11 - including myself.

Yes, obviously. That was the reason the play phase ended. Because we achieved a majority. You didn't read the rules, did you?

[Lifthrasil]

To explain further: just that you got the majority of votes doesn't necessarily means that you're immunized. If some CL submitted a 'convert Nancy' action before the train finished, then the immunization is worthless. Actions are resolved in the order in which they are submitted and as far as I understood it, the 'hammer' counts as submission.

[Lifthrasil]

Do it please. Unlike cutting the play phase off before immunization, shortening the pause phase is good for town, I think. Or at the very least it doesn't hurt town and makes the game continue.

[Lifthrasil]

Depends. If the cult-chats are always open, cutting the pause short doesn't have any effect apart from speeding things up. If the cult-chats, however, are 'pause-only', cutting the pause phase short shortens the time they have to plot. That would be good for town. Therefore, cutting the pause phase short is either neutral or good for town. It can't be bad for town.

But preventing an immunization by cutting the play phase short can be bad for town!

[Lifthrasil]

Depends. If the cult-chats are always open, cutting the pause short doesn't have any effect apart from speeding things up. If the cult-chats, however, are 'pause-only', cutting the pause phase short shortens the time they have to plot. That would be good for town. Therefore, cutting the pause phase short is either neutral or good for town. It can't be bad for town.

But preventing an immunization by cutting the play phase short can be bad for town!

Haven’t read but this sounds decent based on the rules? How do I cut pause short?

You probably don't. There are some roles that have the power of 'time warp' which can switch between play and pause. But if you don't have that power, you can only wait for play to resume like the rest of us.

[Lifthrasil]

So, if I got 11 votes to immunize but no notification of any kind; what does that signify?

Honestly, I don't know. I wasn't immunized yet and the rules don't say if one gets a mod confirmation if the immunization worked. On the other hand, if you would have been recruited, you would have to be notified (hard to play scum if you don't know that you are scum). So you not getting any notification probably means that the immunization worked. Unless there is some scum PR around that can interfere with that. But that would feel kind of bastardy.

Oh and yes, with 'hammer' I meant the last vote on your train.

[Lifthrasil]

CheekyTeeky is replaced by MathBlade

Now how about replacing Nico? He's been absent for basically all of the game. Even 9 days longer than Cheeky at a grand total of one post.

That being said: welcome MathBlade! I hope your presence here will increase the activity a bit.

[Lifthrasil]

And that’s just one small fraction from the main attraction.

You need a friendly hand - and I need action!

...but Janet is dead and she was cult!

[Lifthrasil]

At least, according to the voice

What are cults like TV show hosts or something?

Maybe. At least one of them is. Or to be more precise: the castle has some kind of PA system and someone's role seems to allow them to use it to broadcast messages and since that voice is spreading false information (among the fluff), my guess is, that it is in the hands of one of the cults.

[Lifthrasil]

Ohey we're on pause! I have to read a lot still. Sorry

You don't have to. Hardly anyone still does (at least that's my impression). Just start posting and get some action in here!

[Lifthrasil]

Foes that help?

Are foes that help really foes?

[Lifthrasil]

so you should probably push through an immunize vote QUICKLY because im pushing this into pause again as soon as I can.

Out of pure boredom? Or did you decide not to even try to hide anymore that you're scum?

[Lifthrasil]

So what next? With no investigative results (nothing public anyway) and no lynches and the Vig out of shots.. do we have any sort of idea about what to do next (or more precisely whom to vote for the immunization)?

@Mathblade: Welcome and HAPPY BIRTHDAY

I wouldn’t mind the immunization

I would like to be immunized too. But apparently asking to be immunized is seen as scummy around here. At least by mutant and some others.

But my problem with immunizing you is, you replaced Cheeky, who was a nice lurky player to recruit without the danger that anyone could analyze a change in her behaviour. There was no behaviour to analyze after all. So probably she has been converted some time ago - which in turn means that you have a higher than average probability of being cult.

[Lifthrasil]

But my problem with immunizing you is, you replaced Cheeky, who was a nice lurky player to recruit without the danger that anyone could analyze a change in her behaviour. There was no behaviour to analyze after all. So probably she has been converted some time ago - which in turn means that you have a higher than average probability of being cult.

why do you have a problem with mathblade here but not with nancy drew, who you just voted for?

Because at the moment we still have a bit time to try other options. Nancy was: 'better her than nobody' before Vecna ended the day. Might as well get to the same point with Math, if we don't have any other viable option by the time his time warp is charged again.

But as I said, I would prefer to be immunized myself, because in my case I can be sure of my alignment.

Well, let's make that a vote and see where it goes.

VOTE: Lifthrasil

[Lifthrasil]

I chased somebody. :/

Whom?

[Lifthrasil]

Any result?

As far as I understood her, chasing isn't investigative. It's a kind of role-block.

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: Lifthrasil

I trust you spelled your name right, so I'm copying it from your own post.

Yes, I'm reasonably sure that I spelled my name correctly.

[Lifthrasil]

Wow. No post at all since yesterday. That's even lower activity than usual, even in this game.

[Lifthrasil]

Ok.

I'm not too far, but this game is basically:

If neutral try and immunize others you think to be neutral still. Try and find cult leaders so someone can vig them.
If cult try and immunize people who are already in your cult. Try to find the other cult leader so someone can vig them.
If cult leader recruit like a mad man/woman/person. Immunize people already in your cult. Try to find the other cult leader so someone can vig them.

-People should not advocate for themselves because it is at best anti-town and at worst cultish behavior.
-Neutrals thoughts on who might be cult leaders will be 100% true, while cult members/leaders thoughts will only be half true.

Is there anything else I should know?

Yes. The Vig, or at least one of the vigs (Chickadee) might be in one of the cults. And she said that she used up all her shots. If she still is neutral, I guess that is true. So either she can't kill any more or she is playing against 'town'.

But I disagree on the not advocating oneself as town. I can see that that is something cult would try to do. But as town I also have a vested interest in being immunized if I want to stay town. So why is voting for the one person one knows 100% to be town anti-town?

Also, Vecna already threatened to end the play phase as soon as his ability to do so is recharged. If we go by Magenta's flip, who also had the power of time warp, that recharge takes 77 hours. Which means this play phase will end some time tomorrow afternoon or evening. (Depending on your time zone) If we don't finish a train by then, no one will be immunized. Which is as good for scum as voting one of them.

[Lifthrasil]

Also, im not caught up on recent events, but Vecna is willfully trying to end the phase before we get votes for immunization? So hes prob in a cult?

Yes. That's what I think too. And he doesn't even try to hide it anymore.

[Lifthrasil]

"Staying interested" is a broad term. This game is basically dead, but I'm stubborn. As long as it officially continues I will keep playing. However, I am totally up for calling it a draw and ending the game.

[Lifthrasil]

Are we all self-voting now?

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

You already have been immunized and if that immunization worked, it will last all game. There is no point at all in voting yourself again.

[Lifthrasil]

Well, apparently we aren't in Pause yet. So either Vecna didn's submit his action yet or our mod is awol. So vote as long as it's still possible!

[Lifthrasil]

well, now that ive made sure cult have used their recruitment.....we can actually choose a target without fear of it being recruited.

So that was your play? Nicely played! I was sure you were scum not giving a fuck about hiding any more.

[Lifthrasil]

I wouldn't trust that voice. It has been established some time ago that is doesn't come from the mod and isn't guaranteed to be true. So it's most likely some power of some player who can make announcements - and that player might very well be cult. Or even CL. Flavourwise, from the movie, the power to use the PA would fit Riff-Raff best. But Frank might have access to the PA too and so might Magenta have had.

And now we wait for the mod to end the play phase. Let's see what happens at night and if the voice appears again.

[Lifthrasil]

As you have been already told, there hasn't been a confirmation for any immunization so far. Why do you assume that drealmer would make an exception in your case?
Let me go again over the rules: if a recruitment of you would have been submitted before your immunization, that recruitment would have made the immunization invalid. However, a recruitment would mean that you have to be told who your co-cultists are. That means you would have received a recruitment post. (see example in the rules). If you didn't receive anything, we can assume that your immunization worked.

...or that you are now scum who just pretends that she didn't get any notice.

[Lifthrasil]

But didn’t you say, to be immunized; I needed to be mod-confirmed?

No. I think Srceenplay asked whether you had received a mod confirmation. I just pointed out that the fact, that you got a majority doesn't mean that you are successfully immunized, because you still might be scum. But for the record, I tend to believe that you are clueless town and not scum acting clueless. Sure, I pointed out that that possibility exists. For completeness sake. But if your confusion is an act, it's a very good one. So probably you're neutral and will stay that for the rest of the game.

[Lifthrasil]

Anything going on here yet?

No. Not even a pause. Seems we lost our mod.

[Lifthrasil]

Ok im bored and im just gonna hardclaim. I was culted two days ago. My cult has been playing truely dreadfull (like absolutely total shit), even with how the survivors have been playing were only 3 man large.

My cultleader is lifhtrasil, and we just trolled you all bigtime.

Cerberus was his first recruit, and he's just been giving him all kinds of bad advise, resulting in failed recruit after failed recruit.

I respectfully disagree with your second line. I'm still town and if you and the other cult didn't recruit me before the hammer, I will stay town now.
But I totally can imagine that you are cult and that your cult is playing dreadfully.

@Cerberus and all: but I am totally up for calling it a draw. Shall we make a vote about it? Evereyone votes AYE or NAY If all who have been active over the last week are in favor of ending the game on a draw, we'll do it. Those who were absent for more that 7 days don't get a vote, because they have given up anyhow.

So,

In favor of draw? AYE!

[Lifthrasil]

Tbh I think any cult leader would be bored rn.

Everyone else is also bored.

Hence, I have just proven that everyone is a cult leader.

Nice deduction. Let's just lynch everyone. Oh wait, we can't lynch! But you're right on one count: 'bored' is surely the biggest faction now. So I would say everyone who is bored has won!

[Lifthrasil]

I hope you're right and he is ok. It's not like him to disappear like this without a serious reason.

[Lifthrasil]

One dissolution coming up:

[Lifthrasil]

FINALLY a pause from all that hectic action going on here!

Now we wait for the play to start again.

[Lifthrasil]

I wonder if the game is over now. Was I the last one whose alignment wasn't fixed? I didn't get any PM so far, so I assume that I wasn't recruited and my immunization worked. Is everyone now immune or cult? Will the game end soon? One can only hope.

[Lifthrasil]

Well, while we wait for the Day to start I think it's time to claim. So at least something to talk about happens and also so you might understand why I wanted to be immunized.

I am Eddie. I have two powers. One is passive: I cannot be killed until I use the other power or until I am recruited. (Probably because the other power is called 'The last ride' ... and until Eddie goes on that last ride he is in the freezer in the movie and therefore quite well protected). Because of the line saying that I lose this power when I'm recruited, I knew that I was recruitable and also that being recruited would be negative for me.
With my second power, 'The last ride', I can make myself and one other person un-targetable. But I lose my immortality over that - and I didn't trust any of you enough to sacrifice that.

So now I am immune to recruitment and immune to being killed. One townie that will survive until the end of the game, guaranteed. If there is some killing role left, they are welcome to test it. Shoot at me, if I am scum, I will die but as long as I am still town (or neutral), I will survive all killing attempts. Side note: while this claim was also partially made out of boredom, it isn't a joke claim like Vecna's. This is an actual role-claim.

[Lifthrasil]

@lifth

Unless its worded different un-target-able would = immortal in this game I would think.

I still believe math is cult, not sure if hes one of the leaders or not. Wish we could lynch.

@mutantdevle
Y is nancy a cult leader

Not entirely. I paraphrased, of course, since quoting role PM-s verbatim is usually frowned upon, but as far as I understood it, un-targetable would make me and my passenger also immune from being recruited or being immunized for one night. It effectively removes me and my passenger from the game until the next play phase. But I don't know how that fits with the 'first action sent in is resolved first' tenet.

And yes, I believe as well that math is cult. Not sure about Nancy though.

[Lifthrasil]

Lets start making a list of cult-people to look for correlations.

Mathblade
Vecna

For possible cult leaders if not then likely cult subjects

mutante

I would add Chickadee. Probably she has been recruited (and kept her power) before her last kill. I'm quite sure that a town-vig wouldn't have killed Porkens.

[Lifthrasil]

Also, the mod allowed me to do an early play-shift due to the delays, so thatll happen whenever he's back online

Awesome. So we just have to wait until drealmer find his way back here.

But perhaps I was the last convertible? Perhaps the game is over already and he is just writing the wrap-up? Who knows. In that case it's not that important who is what anymore.

But upon re-thinking I am not that sure that Vecna is scum anymore. His 'forcing cults to make their decision before immunizing someone' might have been his genuine goal and not just a justification. And it might have worked too since no one intercepted the train on me by converting me. ... Or both cults thought that I'm already a member of the opposing cult.

But I'm quite confident about the cultiness of Mathblade and Chickadee. If Nancy is cult, however, she deserves an Oscar for her cluelessness act!

[Lifthrasil]

Ooookay. Game isn't over yet. So there are still unprotected neutrals out there. Now we have to find out whom to immunize while scum tries the same to find out who is still convertible. I have honestly no clue who to vote for, but voting is the only thing we can do.

[Lifthrasil]

Also Drealmerz implied that there -COULD- still be people not talking about their abilities that might have some impact on the way this game is supposed to be played. He was extremely vague, but I have the feeling were missing out on at least some part of how this game shouldve been played........

Maybe some of the more important roles went missing with the players who decided not to play after all. (Nico et al).

Anyhow, if I didn't miss anyone, these are the immunized players so far:

me,
Nancy,
Boon (who died right afterwards AND turned out to be scum)
Snarky,
Almost50

If I did miss someone, please say so.

[Lifthrasil]

Plus we had at least one Pause phase without any successful train (or were those two?). We started out with 24 players, two of which were CL. Each CL had the chance to recruit at least 6 cultists by now. So we might be at 7+7+10 total. Of which one scum and 5 townies are dead. So 6+7+5 is possible.
(Or 8+8+8 total, if there were two Pauses without immunization train or if cults started out at CL+1, but then we probably would already be out of townies now).
It is unlikely that every single conversion attempt succeeded, so it is possible that town is still the biggest faction. Now if we could lynch, we might make something out of that. But like the game is, I'm afraid it will go on for quite some time while we try to immunize the townies who are left over and aren't immunized yet.

Anyway, still available as immunization targets are:

Srceenplay
Vecna
northsidegal
Drixx
mutantdevle
Ms Columbo
Venmar
TheGoldenParadox
Vaxkiller
Cerberus
NicoRobin
Ahsoka Tano
Chickadee
MathBlade

[Lifthrasil]

I wonder how much of this game is just taking place in the two cult chats

Depends. If the cult consists mostly of absent players, the chats will be quite as slow as the main game. But maybe the cults are having all the fun while we while away the long hours in this thread?

@Cults: how is that? Are you having fun without us in your respective threads?

[Lifthrasil]

@MOD CAN WE GET SOME PRODS PLEASE?

Unfortunately drealmer said at the beginning that there would be no prods. Combine that with the fact that there are no lynches and therefore we don't have any way of dealing with lurkers and you get the state that the game is in.

Srceenplay

Vecna

(unsure about him)
northsidegal
Drixx (replaced Jay)

mutantdevle

Ms Columbo
Venmar

TheGoldenParadox

(didn't want to be immunized, if I remember correctly)
Vaxkiller
Cerberus

NicoRobin

- if anyone was an easy target, it was him. No chance of reading any change in an absent player.

Ahsoka Tano

- replaced Dunkerdoodles. Kind of. Might also have been converted long for the same reason and the only think he posted so far were promises to catch up, IIRC.

Chickadee
MathBlade

(Strike through: probably scum. Italics: not sure, but only going to vote for them if no other majority can be found.)

[Lifthrasil]

@Saske: thanks for jumping in. Unfortunately this game had no prods or other way of enforcing participation, so it suffers heavily from lurking. And yes, we didn't get any cult leader so far, as far as we know.

@voting attempts: funny. One of the two scummiest players starts a train and the only player even more scummy than him jumps right on. No point in hiding that you are scum partners any more, huh, Math and Chick? Sorry, but I won't vote for any of you two.

But so that scum isn't the only faction with a going train, let's start a different one:

VOTE: Vaxkiller

He seems genuinely invested in the game, in spite of the slow pace. Of course scum can also genuinely try to find scum from the other team. But so far he seemed to me somewhat towny.

[Lifthrasil]

were not doing vax either

Ok. Why? Anything concrete? Or just a feeling?

And whom would you vote for?

[Lifthrasil]

What do you mean by proxy you?

Happy Easter to all, by the way!

[Lifthrasil]

And Chick shot Porkens, who was one of the more towny players at the time. A while before that she had said that she would go after lurkers - but she never shot Nico. And she never replied to the question why she didn't kill Nico. Then she killed one of the more active players instead who, of course, turned out to be town. So I think it is very sure that Chick is cult - and with the way MathBlade reacts, it looks like he's in her team. So, if you aren't on their team, vote anyone but these two!

[Lifthrasil]

(were like 90% immunizing cult here, but w/e)

What are your reads saying that he is cult? I mean yes, the probability is high, no matter whom we pick, but anything concrete?

[Lifthrasil]

That's right. The surge is suspicious - might be scum acting right after their CL has submitted their recruitment decision. However it might also be town desperation playing into it and not wanting to end another day without a vote. Or both. But if we can get a different train going that's not on Chickadee, Mathblade or Srceenplay, I'm happy to join that too and perhaps get an actual immunization out of it, now that scum have probably already sent in their decisions.

[Lifthrasil]

Im not certain he -was- cult before today, but I find him an excellent target for a cult recruitment today.

So, isnt this a good thing im going to be immunized? Or do I miss-understanding the order of actions in this game.

Yes, actions resolve 'first submitted, first processed'. And unfortunately the LAST vote counts as immunisation action submission. That means, if a cult holds back their conversion attempt until a train is going, they can convert the person about to be immunized, thereby invalidating the immunization. It's a stupid rule, but that's how it is. The only thing they risk by doing so is that the other scum team is quicker and submitted their conversion of the same person a bit earlier.

The only thing going for town is, that cults, once they have submitted a conversion attempt, can't change their conversion target for this play phase. That means, if then another promising train starts, they can't switch targets. Also, they cant switch to Vax if they already submitted some other target before the Vax train started, out of fear of Vecna ending the play phase prematurely (thereby losing their conversion shot). So it is possible that you are going to be converted tonight, even if the train on you finishes, but it's also possible that both scum teams are already locked on someone else. Then you would be safe from conversion for the rest of the game.

[Lifthrasil]

Maybe cults really just have been trying desperately to try and recruit PR's only to get burned in the effort.

It's quite possible that some PRs are immune to conversion, but I find it strange that that isn't stated in the role PM. Mine implied that I could be recruited (by saying that I lose one of my powers if I'm recruited, which wouldn't make sense if recruitment wasn't possible). So perhaps it's the other way round and one is only recruitable if the role PM says so. ... We'll probably only know once the game ends.

[Lifthrasil]

Apparently despite all prior attempts failing, someone has complained that I'm not using my ability or something. Someone who has reason to expect I won't think you're a cult give me some targets please.

So far no town-aligned investigative PR has stepped forward with any information. So probably none exist. I'm not going to use my active power ever, since I don't see any point in using it. So you are welcome to block me all you want, but it would be a waste of your power. And you probably can't block Vecna, since regular powers only are processed at 'Pause' - i.e. after the Time Warp is already processed. The claimed killing PR (Chickadee) is in cult hands and according to herself out of kill-shots by now but can roleblock too. So you might block her, just to be on the safe side. Or, since we don't know what we are doing anyhow, you might as well exhaust all your shots in one Pause and block everyone. Then you at least have a chance of blocking one or both CLs and preventing a conversion, I guess.

So, this would be my advice: either block Chick or block everyone.

[Lifthrasil]

My role PM simply tells me that I'm an elevator, and I can jailkeep people.

Nothing else.

Not even a win con.

(which is why I was suggesting maybe I'M actually a cult leader!)

I guess if you were a CL, your PM would tell you that you can convert people. Also, from the flavour of the movie, I would expect the opposing CLs to be Frank and Riff-Raff. Or Frank and Dr. von Scott.

[Lifthrasil]

Maybe you should address what I said earlier about how unlikely it is that Chickadee is actually culted, given that she's a pack of dogs.

A pack of dogs can be trained, so I don't buy her claim not to be recruitable. And her shooting Porkens seemed very scummy to me.

[Lifthrasil]

If it's not possible to recruit me, why would it be possible to recruit her?

Two questions:
1. Does your PM say that you are immune to recruitment?
2. Do you see any difference between an elevator and a (pack of) dog(s)?

If the answer to the second question is no, please do me the favour and try to enter a dog to ride it to another floor the next time you see one.

[Lifthrasil]

Second question re-worded a bit more seriously: even if your conjecture, that you are immune to conversion is true, why do you assume that that conjecture is valid for other PRs too? Assuming anything in a drealmer game isn't very promising.

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: Vax
done with dagame

Do you mean that you personally are done with the game? Or do you somehow know that the game is done with this vote?

[Lifthrasil]

Or maybe elevator is a fakeclaim to protect Chickadee from the "oh so dangerous public opinion"

I literally claimed this shit on D1.

Yes, I remember you did. But you're still basing your 'read' that Chick is town on pure conjecture, making an assumption about rules based on another assumption about your own role. That's very shaky. If you, however, try to look at what Chickadee did and wrote - i.e. try to base your read on behaviour, not on meaningless assumptions - then you will have to agree that she looks very scummy. I don't have any other explanation for her choice of targets and neither has she.

But maybe things aren't immune to conversion either? Maybe that is just pretense on your part and you have become culted long ago?

Doesn't really matter since we can do nothing about Chick being cult or anone else. We can just keep voting and hoping that the game is over soon.

[Lifthrasil]

Well, we'll see who of us is right at the end of the game.

[Lifthrasil]

excuse me can I please be culted now

No, you can't. It's Pause phase. All actions have to be submitted during Play phase!

[Lifthrasil]

What could be interesting is a Flavour-Name mass-claim. We are still missing some important roles that are sure to be here. We still don't have a claimed Frank or Riff-Raff or Dr. von Scott (and we probably won't get them because Frank is surely one of the CLs and one of the other two is probably the other).

We also don't have Columbia, so far and Rocky is still missing too, I think. We know Brad, Janet and Magenta are dead, I'm Eddie. All the movie-characters should be here. Perhaps the Narrator too, unless that's the mod.

[Lifthrasil]

I would think the Narrator is whoever sends the messages through the mod.

Isnt lips the narrator in the movie? Because I only have the timewarp shit

Nope. This is Lips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKhPVHoodrU

and this is the Narrator: https://youtu.be/ncFcwSduHwI?t=3

[Lifthrasil]

And I guess the one making the announcements, so 'the voice', is Riff-Raff. He's using the PA in the movie, after all, to make announcements that are heard everywhere in the castle.

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Let's make a list. Help me out there, I don't remember every claim, so please correct errors and fill out the list with all the roles/characters that have been claimed so far and add your own character:

1. Porkens -

Impressionable Transexual Transylvanian

2. Almost50

3. Varsoon -

Brad

4. Lifthrasil -

Eddie

5. Srceenplay
6. Vecna -

Lips

7. Nancy Drew 39
8. northsidegal
9. Drixx
10. mutantdevle
11. Ms Columbo

12. Creature -

Impressionable Transexual Transylvanian

13. Venmar
14. TheGoldenParadox
15. Vaxkiller
16. Cerberus v666 -

Elevator

17. SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis
18. SnarkySnowman

19. Gamma Emerald -

Magenta

20. timewarp -

Single-Eared Dog

21. Ahsoka Tano
22. Chickadee -

Pack of dogs

23. Boonskiies -

Janet

24. MathBlade

[Lifthrasil]

Don’t have time to go through my iso

So you would have to ISO yourself to find out what role you claimed? In other words, you openly admit that your claim was made up. Because if it would have been true, you wouldn't have to look it up. You could just state your true character.

[Lifthrasil]

Yes let’s help cult by doing that?

Been up way too many hours and see 0 reason for mass claim.

OK. Please explain to me how this would help cult? Please, try to make something up. It might be entertaining.

Now I can totally see, why cult would be AGAINST revealing their character. Especially if they have one of the characters that are automatically suspicious. So a character-mass claim (NOT a role mass-claim) might inconvenience scum. But it can't hurt town.

However, I'm not surprised that you are against it, since scum can have valid reasons to be against it.

[Lifthrasil]

Someone should make a list of who is immunized and who isn’t.

Already did that.

[Lifthrasil]

So who’s Columbia, Frankenfurter, Riffraff, the blonde dude (can’t recall his name atm).

Rocky. Exactly, that's the question and that's why I made the list. So, who are you? Not your role or powers, just your character name.

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Thanks. Now we wait for drealmer to start the play phase again.

[Lifthrasil]

Trying it again to get one of your cult immunized?

VOTE: Nancy Drew

Better than Mathblade.

[Lifthrasil]

Oh right. Perhaps I should read the lists I make... this game drags so much that I totally forgot that Nancy already was immunized.

Fine, let's go with Vecna. He probably is either already immune from his role or has been culted long ago. As one of the stronger players I guess that at least one cult if not both have tried to recruit him. But then again maybe they believed his claim to be non-recruitable and he is one of the players left to immunize before this game ends? Let's try. I would say the chance that this is a wasted immunization shot is large, but it isn't 100% and maybe we move closer to the end of this game by this.

VOTE: Vecna

[Lifthrasil]

My character is Columbia.

Heh. I kind of expected that based on your name. It just fits too well. But what is the likelihood that Ms Columbo gets Columbia as a role? Does that mean that the roles aren't assigned entirely randomly? Did drealmer have his fun when distributing the roles?

In any case, if this claim is true then we are kind of an item, aren't we, sweety?

My head used to swim from the perfume I smelled
My hands kinda fumbled with her white plastic belt
I'd taste her baby pink lipstick and that's when I'd melt
She'd whisper in my ear tonight she really was mine
Get back in front and put some hair oil on
Buddy Holly was singing his very last song
With your arms around your girl, you try to sing along
It felt pretty good...Whoo!
Really had a good time
Hot patootie, bless my soul
Really love that Rock and Roll

[Lifthrasil]

I'm bored. But I just discovered that this forum has a nice table feature. So I played around with it.

Claimed and confirmed characters
Porkens	Impressionable Transexual Transylvanian	dead
Almost50		immunized
Varsoon	Brad	dead
Lifthrasil	Eddie	immunized
Srceenplay
Vecna	Lips
Nancy Drew 39	Noname (whatever that means)	immunized
northsidegal
Drixx
mutantdevle
Ms Columbo	Columbia
Creature	Impressionable Transexual Transylvanian	dead
Venmar
TheGoldenParadox
Vaxkiller		immunized
Cerberus v666	Elevator
SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis
SnarkySnowman		immunized
Gamma Emerald	Magenta	dead
timewarp	Single-Eared Dog	dead
Ahsoka Tano
Chickadee	Pack of dogs
Boonskiies	Janet	immunized and dead
MathBlade

[Lifthrasil]

How about we ask drealmer to lower the necessary number of votes to 50% of the players that are actually active? Instead of 50% of all players that are nominally alive. For example, players who are inactive since over a week lose their vote. Otherwise, with more and more players dropping out and even the replacements disappearing again it will become increasingly difficult to achieve the necessary number of votes. At the moment we have 13 players who were active during the last 7 days. That would mean 7 votes would be necessary for immunization instead of 9. What do you think? Might help ending this game sooner without crippling town by just cycling the play/pause phases via Time-Warp without any successful immunization votes.

[Lifthrasil]

Or we could ask him to be even more drastic and just kill anyone who is missing for more than 14 days. I think anyone who has been gone for two weeks has abandoned this game for good and should be removed from it.

[Lifthrasil]

Any of those will do. Does getting the number of votes end the cycle?
Why are we voting Vecna?

I don't really know. I'm voting Vecna because he seems to be the only viable train that isn't Mathblade at the moment. I'm quite sure that Chickadee and Mathblade are cult together, so I'm fine with anyone else.

And yes, as soon as we get the necessary number of votes, the play phase ends and the game proceeds one step.

[Lifthrasil]

Because we haven't tried to immunize them yet, and I just made them immune to all actions and unable to act. We can immunize, and move on systematically.

Good. And you said, that you will be informed once you run out of jailing shots, right?

[Lifthrasil]

Maybe we can end the day before the cultists wake up? Dreal mentioned only 1 person has been recruited each night in one of his mod posts.

Nope. He clarified that that wasn't a mod post. That was just 'The Voice' - i.e. some role using the PA of the castle to make announcements. That means those posts came from some player, not the mod, and probably from a cult player at that. My guess is Riff-Raff, since he uses the PA in the movie.

[Lifthrasil]

You could use this to test my jail keep claim? Only value in extending day.

Since confirming you as a jailkeeper doesn't confirm your alignment I don't see any point in extending the day for that. I don't see any reason for you to lie about being a jail-keeper, even if you are cult.

And yes, immunizing Vecna is probably a waste. But what else are we supposed to do. I will happily switch to a train on northsidegal, Drixx, Ms Columbo, Venmar, TGP, Saskels or Ahsoka.
Hell, as the game keeps dragging on I find myself more willing to vote even for players whom I read as cult (mutant, srceen, math and chick, in the order of increasing scumminess), just to get it over with.

But one call out to the cultists around here: if you are as bored with the game as everyone seems to be and want to end it, please just stop blocking town immunizations. I guess the game will only end once no one of changeable alignment is left. Ideally we can fix the alignments of 3 persons per play phase: one immunization and two conversions. If you keep blocking immunizations of players who aren't in your cult, you extend the game. So let's just immunize anyone who isn't immunized yet, you try to convert someone else, not the one the train is on (with the Cult that Janet was in starting from the top of the list and the other one starting from the bottom) then we can end this game in finite time. Or even better: write in the list who is in your cult, so that we don't waste any immunization shots on them either!

Or we just end the game now and play something else.

[Lifthrasil]

OK, that acutally is a valid concern. If jailing really invalidates an immunization, then we are surely wasting our shot (since I believe Cerberus his jailing claim)

Since I don't exactly trust you, Chick, I took the liberty of asking drealmer the same question just now. I hope he comes online and answers soon.

Also @Cerberus: did you only jail Vecna? Or did you jail everyone? I think you said something that you can target multiple targets, or did I understand that wrong?

[Lifthrasil]

Unvote Vecna

until I get a reply from drealmer.

[Lifthrasil]

What day is this?

Tuesday. At least in my time-zone. Since about half an hour.

[Lifthrasil]

Or, you know what, I could vote someone else while we wait for drealmer to answer. If Vecna is right, he is immune anyhow. So there is no hurry immunizing him. Let's take someone else from the list in the meantime.

VOTE: The Golden Paradox

TGP seems to have given up the game, true. But that doesn't tell us much about his alignment, since both sides can be quite frustrated with this game. At least his frustration at not being able to do anything in this game seemed genuine. No telling if he has been culted in the mean-time, but I would be OK with getting him off the list now and, if necessary, return to Vecna tomorrow.

[Lifthrasil]

OK. Drealmer answered. He said he can't answer directly if a jailing prevents immunization, but said instead that the immunization is the last action in any play phase.

I conclude two things from this:
1) if Cerberus power says that it protects the target from ALL actions, then it prevents immunization too
2) even if 'Pause' isn't announced yet, any action sent in after the 'hammer' vote will be void

In any case 1) seems to mean that Chickadee was right. Surprisingly. So I call all on the train to drop Vecna and vote someone else ASAP, so that this play phase ends soon. Because if all actions on and by Vecna are prevented we can't even count on him to make the game progress with his power.

[Lifthrasil]

Yes, it also means that if any immunization candidate was jailed, our list of immunizations is wrong. So we might be missing to immunize someone because the immunization didn't work - leading to an infinite game because we never reach the 'all alignments fixed' state.

So to all jailers and similar PRs: did you ever prevent an immunization (and not recruit that person afterwards, if you're scum)? That might be important to know if we don't want to be stuck in this game forever. I didn't. I could make myself and one other person untargetable for all kinds of actions until the next play phase, but I didn't use that power so far and I don't intend to use it.

Side note: I suggested the speed-up modifications to the setup to drealmer, but he didn't reply yet. Probably he is loathe to change the rules of a game while it is running. Which is entirely justified normally, but in this case it may become necessary to either modify it or to abort it.

[Lifthrasil]

seems to mean that Chickadee was right. Surprisingly.

Sorry. Your choice of kill targets screamed 'scum' to me and the rest of the posts didn't do anything to change that impression. That you now warned about a caveat and stop us from doing something that would definitely have hurt town genuinely surprised me. You have no reason to play towny if you are scum in this game at this point any more. So you have successfully confused me.

[Lifthrasil]

Come on, guys! Vote! Even if TGP isn't in your cult, do you want this game to last eternally? If we don't get a vote through, this play-phase won't end.

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: Nancy

Come on, stop being a d.ck! And no, at the moment of that vote you couldn't know that Cerberus elevated Nancy, unless Cerb is in your cult. Which means: either you start a second train, preventing the end of the Day out of pure spite. Or you have a reason for not wanting TGP to be immunized. Did you already submit your conversion for this Play phase and it wasn't on TGP? So you don't want TGP to be immunized, because you can't change your conversion action to him for today?

My vote stays. And with the 'elevation' messing with immunizations this game has become even more unplayable. I'm out of here for now. I might check back in a few days to see if you managed to end the play phase somehow, but at the moment this game is just too annoying.

[Lifthrasil]

Hope you are well, Nancy!

I see. The weekend has passed and we are no step closer to a successful vote. Srceenplay is stubbornly blocking the vote on TGP and since we are so few players by now, that ALL have to agree on a candidate to get anywhere, this play phase will not end. Also, Cerberus revealed that ALL our immunizations were void. Which means two things: 1) Scum know that now too and can get additional shots at converting us 'immunized' players. 2) The game will take even longer, since all 'immunized' players will have to be re-immunized or converted until the end condition is met.

So, basically we start all over again, only with as slightly worse start for town and all in all we are looking at another three months of nothing happening. I suggested this already twice and some were always supportive, but we didn't get a majority yet: let's abort the game and call it a draw! Perhaps we can do that now?

VOTE: Abort Game!

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

This game is still not mafia.

No, it's not. We have a cult instead.

Nope. Two.

[Lifthrasil]

initiating suicide bomber on a50 next phase

#Me too, please!

Argh, no! Doesn't work. I'm immortal as long as no one converts me. Please, if we still don't get a majority for aborting the game: someone convert me and THEN someone kill me!

[Lifthrasil]

VOTE: Abandon game

drealmer said via PM that he is willing to end the game if more people ask for it, after I asked him about that via PM. But apparently I was the only one to do so. So if you want, you might PM him too to tell him if you would like to abandon the game or if you want to carry on.

[Lifthrasil]

Like, I would really like to play an accelerated version of the game (2-3 Days play 1 day pause with the highest majority of players on a wagon gets the immunization) but I'm not sure if everyone else is interested.

I think speed isn't the main problem of this game. It's lack of participation - and that in turn comes from lack of enforcement (no prods AND no lynches are a bad combination) and from lack of feedback. A game where the majority of the players doesn't know anything and has no way of finding out anything becomes boring fast. We didn't get any feedback if the immunizations worked or not. We had no lynches to test theories and alignments. There was no feeling of progress or danger, since we had no way of knowing how good or bad we were doing. So the game felt pointless after a while. And from that point on it became a vicious cycle. People disappearing because they lost interest (and weren't encouraged/forced to keep participating) and the game kept getting less interesting because people disappeared.

[Lifthrasil]

I think the lesson here is not to join cult games

I disagree. Cult games can be fun, but they NEED to be open setups. If you don't know the rules AND are playing in a game with changing affiliations there is just too much that can go wrong. So the players need to know the rules. Then they play the unfamiliar setting in a meaningful way. Combining the difficulties of a cult setting with the difficulties of a closed setup just multiplies those difficulties. Taking away the feedback (no information about successes or failures) was the last nail in the coffin of this, in concept, rather nice game.