Dance of the Title Fairy: Accepting Applications

A subforum entirely dedicated to the discussion of titles. The title fairy has carte blanche in this subforum.
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Post Post #3791 (isolation #400) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:32 am

Post by Psyche »

by this time next month, title bot will be live or i’ll step down one or the other
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Post Post #3793 (isolation #401) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:37 am

Post by Psyche »

and my replacement will be nexus
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Post Post #3804 (isolation #402) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:09 am

Post by Psyche »

sry vonflare
maybe as an april fool’s thing
actually i think this post rules that out
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Post Post #3805 (isolation #403) » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:10 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3776, Cheetory6 wrote:Nominate N for
Please Don't
.
Meaning kind of extends beyond just the catchphrase and maybe semi-captures some aspect of N's general sense of humour?

Someone might be able to think of something better. I think N should be someone easy to brainstorm stuff for.

Inb4 Please DoN't.
anyway sorry for distracting from this interesting nom
will remove that other title when im on a computer
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Post Post #3817 (isolation #404) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:19 am

Post by Psyche »

a title nom can't be considered serious if it doesn't come with any justification whatsoever
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Post Post #3822 (isolation #405) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:07 am

Post by Psyche »

reputation was also a cut above a lot of the noms here (though still bad yes)

ok if anix likes it, it's a thing

i assume i dont have to pm him about it
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Post Post #3829 (isolation #406) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Post by Psyche »

who is this novelty account
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Post Post #3831 (isolation #407) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:19 pm

Post by Psyche »

its not in the iso, and i skim a lot
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Post Post #3833 (isolation #408) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:26 pm

Post by Psyche »

just tell me; there are like 2-4 different people mentioned in your post
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Post Post #3844 (isolation #409) » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:15 pm

Post by Psyche »

It’s got at least one implied counternom, even one of the nths has all but allowed that the title is bad in 3828, and I don’t know enough about Alisae to assess it myself. So I’m gonna
require two more nths
for the Alisae non before I do the work of looking at it closely.
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Post Post #3861 (isolation #410) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:59 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3846, Ginngie wrote:and I dont get why you're fucking the system because you "don't feel like" looking into it.
Am not “fucking the system”, but rather trying to do my job. You have to understand, this is somebody who has already had a title until a few days ago. I went with the flow and gave Alisae the title because so many people earnestly supported it and I was afraid of receiving lowkey temper tantrumy posts like yours here in response. And the thing turned out to be so sucky it couldn’t even last six months without that consensus breaking down. Six month titles are
not
how this system is supposed to work and represent a failure on my part as well as on the community’s part to do its job to only give titles of lasting meaning and worth.

What I got from all that and even from the talk about the current nom is that there are so many people in this thread who throw out nths for iffy titles because of the person getting nominated for them, or because they don’t really care much about the system, or just because they have bad taste (would say that these are the people “fucking the system”) that just putting my own skepticism aside when a title does gets a lot of nths is bound to result in a lot of titles that I can’t readily defend even a few months down the line.

I’m *still* not handling these issues as dramatically as older title fairies, who’ve repeatedly completely stonewalled title noms they didn’t personally support. I’m just asking for more evidence that the title is not going to be deservedly abandoned by March ‘18 or something. If it’s so perfect, then getting a couple more nths shouldn’t be so hard. I mean, it seems like it already has. In sum, can you, like, cool it?
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Post Post #3863 (isolation #411) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:07 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3848, Alisaes French Maid wrote:
In post 3844, Psyche wrote:It’s got at least one implied counternom, even one of the nths has all but allowed that the title is bad in 3828, and I don’t know enough about Alisae to assess it myself. So I’m gonna
require two more nths
for the Alisae non before I do the work of looking at it closely.
I think its a good title.
I also believe it is comparatively better then a good chunk of the current titles that got nominated in this thread.

Like so many shit titles go through and then we randomly don't allow good titles for not being super perfect and unique.
I’m never gonna entertain the argument that because these other titles aren’t great, this one shouldn’t have to be either. All it can ever result in is more mediocre titles. If you think the community is not consistently holding every title to a high standard, speak up when bad titles start getting pushed through. Antinoms do a lot.
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Post Post #3864 (isolation #412) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:08 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3847, Ginngie wrote:I also dont get why you want to make a bot for this title fairy thing

It's like you dont actually like being the fairy my dude
You’ll understand once it’s ready, I think.
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Post Post #3868 (isolation #413) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:22 am

Post by Psyche »

We technically shouldn’t clog up this thread with talk about the bot. I’ll explain my current plans in the ideas thread. It’s not a matter of work-aversion (making bots takes work); I think it’ll ultimately be more detailed and more disciplined/reliable with administrative and other title-related work than
any
conceivable scummer on this site could be (rather than just me). Once it’s ready, I can finally start running this subforum the way I’ve always wanted to.

Anyway, I’m
counting panzer’s recent posts as a counternom
too, so the
Alisae title needs one more nth
before I fold under public pressure.
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Post Post #3881 (isolation #414) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:33 am

Post by Psyche »

Okay, at this point the Alisae thing is decidedly controversial, so I’m putting it in
limbo for a month
. Feel free to bring it up again on January 17, though ideally you can come up with something with more reliable appeal even before that.
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Post Post #3885 (isolation #415) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:38 am

Post by Psyche »

I’m gonna try to finish this before my christmas break is over.
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Post Post #3896 (isolation #416) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:18 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3886, Alisaes French Maid wrote:
In post 3881, Psyche wrote:Okay, at this point the Alisae thing is decidedly controversial, so I’m putting it in
limbo for a month
. Feel free to bring it up again on January 17, though ideally you can come up with something with more reliable appeal even before that.
????????????
It has 9nths and 2 counter nths.
3 counter nths, and your nth is questionable
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Post Post #3899 (isolation #417) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:26 am

Post by Psyche »

And there’s skrew too. Even assuming 9 and excluding skrew, 3 is enough when it’s so straightforward to just come up with a different nom. We’re explicitly going for titles with broad appeal.
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Post Post #3908 (isolation #418) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 3906, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 3854, Alisae wrote:Panzer what are your favorite titles?
Has anyone ever done a poll of favorite titles? Since the topic of "what makes a good title" is under constant debate, it might help if we had a good concrete examples of titling done right.
i was gonna make the poll myself eventually but maybe it would be better to delegate that particular thing
is n_m the right man for the job though?
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Post Post #3916 (isolation #419) » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:31 am

Post by Psyche »

yeah ill send you the list asap, today or tomorrow
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Post Post #3960 (isolation #420) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:59 pm

Post by Psyche »

sry friends im v/la through the end of this holiday season
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Post Post #3962 (isolation #421) » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:10 pm

Post by Psyche »

yeah
uncommon but possible
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Post Post #3995 (isolation #422) » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:15 am

Post by Psyche »

i knew it!
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Post Post #4037 (isolation #423) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:27 am

Post by Psyche »

i never really thought about the visual impact of having a title like that above a username all the time
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Post Post #4045 (isolation #424) » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:29 am

Post by Psyche »

i don't think colorful formatting in general is particular tough to stomach, at least in mafsilver
it's right there adjacent to the generally colorful avatar, after all
but in this particular case, the rainbow on black highlight thing seems like an eyesore in and of itself
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Post Post #4060 (isolation #425) » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:28 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4055, Annadog40 wrote:Though if a user becomes inactive for a long time, can the title also be given to another who embodies the title?
nah
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Post Post #4064 (isolation #426) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:09 pm

Post by Psyche »

i know of some who’ve reportedly used ones they’d written
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Post Post #4076 (isolation #427) » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:41 pm

Post by Psyche »

what an amazing way to start my favorite page of this thread
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Post Post #4079 (isolation #428) » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:47 pm

Post by Psyche »

okay, stop
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Post Post #4098 (isolation #429) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by Psyche »

you make a mockery of me and this entire operation and expect me to just roll over? like that??

ok ill pm the appropriate parties
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Post Post #4101 (isolation #430) » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:24 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4099, SleepyKrew wrote:bro will get shade brigade back right?
oh boy i missed that title
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Post Post #4111 (isolation #431) » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:44 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4109, Alisae wrote:
In post 4107, LicketyQuickety wrote:Plus it has nothing to do with Mafia at all.
no one
actually cares about this nowadays btw.
lickety does!
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Post Post #4114 (isolation #432) » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:43 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4112, Vijarada wrote:Of the titles given out in this thread, only wisdom's, mhsmith's, singer's and fferyllt's are related to mafia (4/12). in the last thread i think it was even less.
yah but enforcing groupthink is bad
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Post Post #4126 (isolation #433) » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:16 am

Post by Psyche »

5 days
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Post Post #4127 (isolation #434) » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:22 am

Post by Psyche »

Think Wraith should maybe get his own title instead of getting Bro’s. “Expert Marxman” feels uninspired by itself, esp wo some ties to the sharpshooter allusion in the title. Remain happy reverting BRO’s title though.
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Post Post #4132 (isolation #435) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 am

Post by Psyche »

meh, bro's a big boy
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Post Post #4136 (isolation #436) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:12 am

Post by Psyche »

it's ultimately his call, but it's a communitarian institution he's not the only one with a vested interest in the issue
the motion has gotten the requisite number of nths and i disagree that there's anything inherently wrong with it
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Post Post #4141 (isolation #437) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:11 am

Post by Psyche »

sry, i suppose the topic we're talking about is sort of ambiguous let me explain
the motion with 7 nths involves removing bro's current title and giving it to wraith; all i've been saying lately is that i see nothing wrong in principle with any part of that motion and will implement it if the relevant parties consent
i've only lately suggested that maybe a different but similarly themed title would be better for wraith; it's so far resulted in no actual noms and is atm only more loosely tied with the status of bro's title
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Post Post #4165 (isolation #438) » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 am

Post by Psyche »

think “hood rat” is a bit...
charged
to play on in a tite
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Post Post #4168 (isolation #439) » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:57 am

Post by Psyche »

oh right, that
what was it before?
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Post Post #4188 (isolation #440) » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by Psyche »

yeah why is no one calling me out
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Post Post #4198 (isolation #441) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:21 am

Post by Psyche »

no i was not!
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Post Post #4200 (isolation #442) » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:56 am

Post by Psyche »

what a punchline
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Post Post #4369 (isolation #443) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:00 am

Post by Psyche »

is water "wet"
and if not, are squids really "damp"?
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Post Post #4392 (isolation #444) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:52 am

Post by Psyche »

smooth criminal confuses me
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Post Post #4393 (isolation #445) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:00 pm

Post by Psyche »

errant said it has something to do with annie but i dont see what
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Post Post #4396 (isolation #446) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by Psyche »

oh i see
i suppose i understand the appeal
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Post Post #4406 (isolation #447) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:41 am

Post by Psyche »

I've pmed the appropriate party.
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Post Post #4408 (isolation #448) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:44 am

Post by Psyche »

congratulations everyone uve given rc a title
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Post Post #4451 (isolation #449) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:46 am

Post by Psyche »

seems like the shitposting has decidedly gotten out of hand again
please don’t make me have to be more strict about it
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Post Post #4458 (isolation #450) » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:44 am

Post by Psyche »

please dont make me be less milquetoast
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Post Post #4476 (isolation #451) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:45 am

Post by Psyche »

im ok w doot now generally speaking
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Post Post #4483 (isolation #452) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:23 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 4480, Cheetory6 wrote:antinom
i am the memekiller
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Post Post #4494 (isolation #453) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:39 am

Post by Psyche »

48 hours to collect more feedback on doot
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Post Post #4514 (isolation #454) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:28 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 4509, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 4494, Psyche wrote:48 hours to collect more feedback on doot
It's dumb.
yes but is it also bad
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Post Post #4531 (isolation #455) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:20 pm

Post by Psyche »

im ambivalent but it just seems to capture vonflare specifically rather well
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Post Post #4558 (isolation #456) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:24 pm

Post by Psyche »

yeah, answer that
what is vonflare besides a forced meme? what else is he on this site?
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Post Post #4562 (isolation #457) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4558, Psyche wrote:what is vonflare besides a forced meme? what else is he on this site?
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Post Post #4564 (isolation #458) » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:46 pm

Post by Psyche »

who is papa zito
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Post Post #4578 (isolation #459) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Psyche »

working assumption is that people like his obnoxious shitposting
i hope they aren’t nthing if they actually don’t, though i suppose there’s an argument for nthing titles when they match a person whether you like them or not
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Post Post #4596 (isolation #460) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:56 pm

Post by Psyche »

The justification is more than that it's forced and people are forcing it; it's that vonflare's essence here on MS is the sort of forcing that "doot" embodies. If the community likes the kind of thing vonflare does, then it's not bad behavior.

I feel like these criticisms could be better if I explained why I'm taking the nomination seriously. If someone came forward today with the best title imaginable for vonflare, in which ways would it be different from "doot"? Because to me it seems to check all of the main boxes of a title. It 1) references an interesting incident, playstyle or characteristic of the user, and 2) makes the reference in an interesting way that's 3) accessible/appreciable to the broader community. It's easy to explain doot, it's clear why the title fits vonflare in particular, and the way it fits vonflare is at the same time not totally unsubtle. Besides the fact that I honestly don't like vonflare's schtick much at all, it seems perfect for him otherwise, assuming that all the people nthing him for it have a more positive attitude about his schtick.

So, I'm leaning toward approving it. This doesn't mean that I'm opening the door to more titles like this (it would make vonflare's title less...individual), but rather that I'm accepting that vonflare fits the niche that the title identifies him for. I've got zero expectation that he'll change the way he is after getting this title, so the idea that he shouldn't get it because it's the design of some fleeting campaign just kind of falls flat, especially since such a campaign is exactly among the sorts of things motivating the nomination.

No one seems to contest that it fits him. They contest that the stuff about him that makes the title fit should be rewarded with a title. I have to decide whose opinions to weight more. And if they're balanced, shouldn't I also weight how well the title plainly matches him?

At the same time, though, I also understand the value of not approving plainly controversial titles. It just seems like a cop-out to take that stance, though, especially with my awareness of many controversial noms ultimately getting approved by past title fairies. So, I'm still thinking. And I'll allow plenty of time to react to these thoughts here.
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Post Post #4600 (isolation #461) » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 pm

Post by Psyche »

will be easier to reject the title if none of the nthers can offer a good answer to that
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Post Post #4615 (isolation #462) » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:49 am

Post by Psyche »

there actually seem to be too many titles based on high posting volume; i’d def be likely to say no to one based on it now
agree that it’s unfortunate that no concrete/serious explanation for doot’s come up
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Post Post #4623 (isolation #463) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:49 am

Post by Psyche »

he’s not the best character but he is his own
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Post Post #4626 (isolation #464) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:03 am

Post by Psyche »

shea was a great title
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Post Post #4629 (isolation #465) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:55 am

Post by Psyche »

dude!
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Post Post #4630 (isolation #466) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:55 am

Post by Psyche »

yes that’s right i unironically say dude sometimes
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Post Post #4640 (isolation #467) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:57 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 4637, Papa Zito wrote:Next title fairy is a bot guys
maybe i was always the bot all along
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Post Post #4657 (isolation #468) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Post by Psyche »

ok, im approving doot for vonflare
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Post Post #4658 (isolation #469) » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Post by Psyche »

In general I'm more liable to approve titles I don't personally like that have enough support and meet basic standards. So if you dislike doot, just try to maybe wash it out with a lot of successful noms of your own.
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Post Post #4664 (isolation #470) » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:54 am

Post by Psyche »

some side was going to be unhappy
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Post Post #4701 (isolation #471) » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:46 am

Post by Psyche »

nah i have at least half a decade in me
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Post Post #4703 (isolation #472) » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:47 am

Post by Psyche »

comical third option is approved!
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Post Post #4717 (isolation #473) » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:20 pm

Post by Psyche »

where have i heard that one before
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Post Post #4736 (isolation #474) » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:17 am

Post by Psyche »

so, it’s usually unheard of for a newbie to get a title
will we cross that line
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Post Post #4755 (isolation #475) » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:36 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 4739, Inferno390 wrote:He's relatively new to the site.
would you say he’s...
green
?
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Post Post #4757 (isolation #476) » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:38 am

Post by Psyche »

get it?
green like the color of grass?
like the title?

the nomination is perfect
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Post Post #4766 (isolation #477) » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:20 am

Post by Psyche »

some title noms are joke noms even if the ones making them don’t know it
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Post Post #4807 (isolation #478) » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:01 am

Post by Psyche »

it's an interesting nom with obvious interest, but you'll have to do the 5 nths and stuff again when he returns and is able to accept a nomination; i'll more deeply consider the rule issue then

sorry!
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Post Post #4823 (isolation #479) » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:30 am

Post by Psyche »

would say that "gifts" are different from "rewards" and that the most important features of a title to me are that it 1) references an interesting incident, playstyle or characteristic tied to the user, and 2) makes the reference in an interesting way that's 3) accessible/appreciable to the broader community

i don't think any of these necessarily exclude titles that reference an incident of bad behavior or rule-breaking, but i am definitely open to debate over whether something should be added that does
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Post Post #4878 (isolation #480) » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:54 am

Post by Psyche »

i will delete all of these posts
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Post Post #4879 (isolation #481) » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:55 am

Post by Psyche »

kk's is fine though a very good point
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Post Post #4892 (isolation #482) » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:54 am

Post by Psyche »

am really amazed how many decent titles can emerge from so banal an episode
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Post Post #4907 (isolation #483) » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:50 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 4894, animorpherv1 wrote:Psyche why are you so apathetic to shitty titles?
i want to empower the community to make its own calls about what is and isn’t shitty
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Post Post #4938 (isolation #484) » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:16 am

Post by Psyche »

Really not considering any title noms for currently banned users.
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Post Post #4947 (isolation #485) » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Post by Psyche »

oh my
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Post Post #4979 (isolation #486) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:06 am

Post by Psyche »

i listen to it more and more w each day
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Post Post #4981 (isolation #487) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Psyche »

it's already implied
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Post Post #5036 (isolation #488) » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:46 pm

Post by Psyche »

ok so i'm ok w either. will move forward after 48 hours open discussion period.
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Post Post #5054 (isolation #489) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:31 am

Post by Psyche »

as you all know, it's always been my intention to make the title fairy position obsolete. for that reason i
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Post Post #5055 (isolation #490) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:34 am

Post by Psyche »

im sharing this edgy webcomic




Image removed - Zito
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Post Post #5059 (isolation #491) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:46 am

Post by Psyche »

it's super funny
just not in a "haha" sort of way
more "hmm. heh! mmm"
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Post Post #5061 (isolation #492) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:53 am

Post by Psyche »

open discussion period
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Post Post #5063 (isolation #493) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:12 am

Post by Psyche »

interesting
i suppose it’s not very unreasonable
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Post Post #5086 (isolation #494) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Post by Psyche »

ok discussion period over
ill let the people nommed decide what particular form they want their title to be in or if they want one at all
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Post Post #5090 (isolation #495) » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:33 pm

Post by Psyche »

tryhard psyche is tryharding having a healthy perspective on work and self-importance
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Post Post #5093 (isolation #496) » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:51 am

Post by Psyche »

im not apathetic!
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Post Post #5094 (isolation #497) » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:54 am

Post by Psyche »

im
minimalist
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Post Post #5098 (isolation #498) » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:52 am

Post by Psyche »

if you commit to minimalism too hard it becomes the opposite of minimalism
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Post Post #5100 (isolation #499) » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:29 pm

Post by Psyche »

the titles havebeen accepted stay tuned for the award ceremony
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Post Post #5114 (isolation #500) » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:55 am

Post by Psyche »

feel all is moving at a quite reasonable pace given the purported permanence of the outcome and the time-sensitivity of what we’re doing
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Post Post #5117 (isolation #501) » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:29 pm

Post by Psyche »

you know what, forget it

Creature/BBM have their titles
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Post Post #5152 (isolation #502) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:28 am

Post by Psyche »

SEVENTY-TWO HOUR WAITING PERIOD
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Post Post #5234 (isolation #503) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Post by Psyche »

Ok 72 hours as well
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Post Post #5261 (isolation #504) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:54 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5245, SleepyKrew wrote:lolbalance is weird to me because I know it's not intended as an insult, but it's exactly how I'd complain about an Alisae setup that I didn't like.
Is this an antinom? I am keeping track of these things.
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Post Post #5312 (isolation #505) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:54 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 5290, Mathdino wrote:I get paranoid every time someone anti-noms something that Psyche is gonna put it on the table for another 3 months while he continues working on his title bot tbh. It's more about convincing Psyche (and other users who don't have the context of playing mafia).
I think your approach here might deserve a little re-calibration, as I've pivoted a lot from my thread philosophy in recent months. Let me be clear again about this. I've made calls about title quality substantially less Title Fairy-centered and much more community-centered. Therefore, when you make a case for a title or debate the quality of a title with another user, the thing I'm looking as a Fairy (it might impact me as a community member who can nth and anti-nth titles) at isn't so much whether your argument is personally convincing to me, but how the community takes it as a whole. I think this sort of disengagement is healthier for the institution as a whole. To compensate for this scaling down of Fairy-driven title filtering, though, I've increased the role of community dissidence as a filter for title nominations. It can seem that a single antinom counts for a more than a single nth because titles are expressly
supposed
to have broad and mostly noncontroversial appeal. But the way to get a title moved forward when antinoms arise isn't to try to win my personal backing for the nom, but rather to outweigh dissidence with more backing from the community.

A lot of what I'm doing in this thread can look like disengagement/apathy, but I've tried to make it clear that it's driven by my specific philosophy about how titling should be handled. I think the call about whether a title is "good" should not center around my own or any specific Title Fairy's own tastes, so that (and not apathy or distraction) motivates me to take a back seat on points of disagreement I might otherwise strongly engage in when they don't concern basic standards for titles or other institutional policies. At the same time, I don't think mere majority support is alone good enough evidence of broad appeal to make a nomination a title, either, so that (and not apathy or distraction) motivates me to table titles that are clearly controversial.

I think these changes overall place the institution under sounder footing principle-wise while making it easier to get titles pushed forward, not harder. And that's reflected by the higher quantity of titles that ultimately get approved when they find support. We aren't in a situation where a tiny minority of naysayers (including often myself) is so reliably knocking down strong noms that titles never get through; in fact, I feel we're much closer to an opposite situation, where a plurality of highly agreeable regulars approve titles so readily that quality standards don't matter so much anymore. This is something I hope to ameliorate by normalizing the idea that my input as a community member about the quality of a title shouldn't crowd out differing opinions; we aren't there yet I think, so I hang back. I think it would also be useful to maintain institutional memory about dissidence that arose earlier in the thread to specific nominations. Also, something more specific I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't hand-wring so much about titles that don't get through because there was substantial dissidence surrounding them: there are plenty of fish in the sea. You can come up with new ideas for titles that get much more support than opposition. It's important to not get so attached to specific ideas that this thread becomes a point of paranoia for you, and maybe just appreciate the role of the community in distinguishing between one's good and one's great proposals, or at least between proposals with specific and with broad appeal. Something has to be that filter, and frankly you should be glad in recent cases that it hasn't been me.

Now, that's not all I need to say right now, I know that. Give me a sec.
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Post Post #5327 (isolation #506) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:22 am

Post by Psyche »

So, panzer's posts @mathdino sort of cross the line and he already has a history of doing that in this thread. The reason they cross the line is because they amount to unduly personal attacks in a discussion about little strings of text under people's usernames. Two weeks.

I kinda want to warn others, too, to avoid critiques of users that don't bear directly and clearly on our discussion of titles. If someone is contributing in good faith to a discussion about titles, I don't really care much about your personal opinions about their mental state or personality or writing style, and I don't think most users care either. They're channeling what they have for the community and I'm glad for it. Keep criticism focused on the substance of their ideas and maybe the workings of the subforum, and make use of the many tools available for disengaging from users you have a problem with. MafiaScum is an internet forum, and that means your posts are always going to be adjacent to ones by people you don't necessarily know or like.
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Post Post #5328 (isolation #507) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:34 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5317, Mathdino wrote:@Psyche: My concern is still in that this forum is dominated by people who no longer play mafia, and don't know about the current generation's gimmicks, memes, playstyles, contributions, personalities.

Titles however long ago were basically given for "those moments" in mafia games that everyone knew about because everyone played mafia. Because people don't, I think there's unfair weight against the current gen and in favour of Speakeasy related things. Things like
- RC's title HAVING to be pushed through (because people don't like him) when it's just as good if not better than Pine's "In Your Head" for being good at scum
- Discussion on Mulch's title fizzing out and immediately pivoting to Ari relationship thread memes followed by yet more ego fights

I'm here because I want more titles under the names of people that I play with. I smile when I'm playing and notice RC's title or Creature's title ingame. I really don't see many tho.
I hope people take this criticism seriously, but it's my position that it's the function of the thread for disagreements about what deserves a title to be hashed out through nths, anti-nths, flat-out ignoring of noms and discussion surrounding those. The community has to decide for itself what deserves a title, and that includes people from the Speakeasy. But indeed, maybe the thread should be sanitized more thoroughly for the sake of people who'd like to participate in these calls but are relatively timid.
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Post Post #5335 (isolation #508) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:54 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5331, McMenno wrote:zlulSyBI2aY[/youtube]
what a blast from the past
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Post Post #5346 (isolation #509) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:18 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5342, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 5328, Psyche wrote:The community has to decide for itself what deserves a title
I thought the point of the Title Fairy was to take that decision (mostly) out of the hands of the community.
maybe it was now it ain't
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Post Post #5354 (isolation #510) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:02 am

Post by Psyche »

Moving forward on lolbalance.
Another day for Gotta Go Fast, as there seems room for further discussion.
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Post Post #5362 (isolation #511) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:23 am

Post by Psyche »

alisae has lolbalance and ive successfully preserved their scummie banner in the process
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Post Post #5371 (isolation #512) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:23 am

Post by Psyche »

did i stylize mulch's title right
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Post Post #5411 (isolation #513) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:02 am

Post by Psyche »

afraid i'm not counting inferno's nths related to this episode of dance of the title fairy due to the uninformed nthing
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Post Post #5412 (isolation #514) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:04 am

Post by Psyche »

paragone has enough nths (EDIT: well it needs more due to antinoms actually), but what about the blank banner thing? is that a no?
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Post Post #5422 (isolation #515) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:05 am

Post by Psyche »

so let me talk as not title fairy
what if the banner/paragone were just a temporary gag and not, like, a full title thing
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Post Post #5429 (isolation #516) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 am

Post by Psyche »

ok let's do the tally that titlebot would've done
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Post Post #5431 (isolation #517) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:29 am

Post by Psyche »

ok we are in the discussion window phase now for both the banner and the title
paragone has so much support (somewhere around 11 vs 2) that i feel it outweighs the opposition atm, though i am also weighing the concern that this nom is too soon
the banner also has a lot of support (not as much), and much of the opposition to it is tied to its permanence - it could easily be a temporary addendum to a permanent title - i'm officially enabling that possibility
so over the next 72, hopefully the community can hash these points out and further think through its stances
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Post Post #5444 (isolation #518) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:04 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 5432, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 5262, Kublai Khan wrote:Oh, count me as an antinom to everything.
im not going to do that
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Post Post #5452 (isolation #519) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Post by Psyche »

it's like
a portmanatee
(also it's totally a pun)
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Post Post #5462 (isolation #520) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:31 pm

Post by Psyche »

r u reneging
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Post Post #5472 (isolation #521) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:25 pm

Post by Psyche »

Hmm so right now it seems about I'm to move forward on Paragone but not on the banner.
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Post Post #5478 (isolation #522) » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:47 am

Post by Psyche »

there are some powers associated with this position that i will not let go of lightly
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Post Post #5482 (isolation #523) » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:53 am

Post by Psyche »

not a discussion for my thread
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Post Post #5484 (isolation #524) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:45 am

Post by Psyche »

Kodak Moment {YearOfAward}
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Post Post #5488 (isolation #525) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:53 am

Post by Psyche »

Here are some cons you should understand, though. This would be a bit of work (get list of past scummy winners, filter out those who already have titles, create unique titles for the remainder, handle repeats and multi-winners-within-a-single year, assign them to the people on this list, repeat every year for expired winners), and easy to do wrong or in a way that's just cluttered. Furthermore, it could overshadow the current titling tradition and/or the titles of people who got their titles the traditional way.
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Post Post #5490 (isolation #526) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:55 am

Post by Psyche »

im exaggerating its not that hard when you have my mad programming skills
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Post Post #5493 (isolation #527) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Psyche »

I feel like this discussion might be bigger than this thread per se. Lots of people do a lot of work around the scummies or are invested in the scummies but not in titles, and they ought to be explicitly involved too.
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Post Post #5495 (isolation #528) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:35 am

Post by Psyche »

ok. implementing this would be very easy, then
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Post Post #5499 (isolation #529) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:56 am

Post by Psyche »

uh no i didnt say that
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Post Post #5501 (isolation #530) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:01 am

Post by Psyche »

in fact i think i've done the opposite, and further articulated in a way you haven't some big issues with the proposal
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Post Post #5536 (isolation #531) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:52 am

Post by Psyche »

could make a thread in site ideas but fine keep it in here if you want
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Post Post #5561 (isolation #532) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:41 am

Post by Psyche »

so, titlebot is just about ready, and thus we're on the edge of a major reorganization of how this subforum (and shortly perhaps even some mafia games) works
i'd like to discuss with you guys some ideas about what this reorganization will look like

the centerpiece of titlebot should be its automated assembly and regular presentation of detailed votecounts
these should help everyone track explicit support and opposition for different noms, even when discussion get longwinded, divided, distracted, etc
i expect that these regular votecounts will help discussion stay title-oriented and also reduce the costs of temporary disorientation

included in these votecounts will be links to each nom/nth/antinom/etc related to each title
this'll help people track discussion of titles in the short run, and in the long run could serve important historical purposes in an archive in the thread OP or the site wiki:
anyone who wants to know what a title is about will be able to quickly jump to where discussion of the title happened and observe why
so yeah, from detailed votecounts, we'll also have detailed (and ever-up-to-date) OPs and wikis!

a side-effect of this process will be easier filtering of joke noms/etc
noms/nths/antinoms that fail to follow a very simple (i promise!) structure specified in the OP just won't be counted, and so can be made and ignored freely

a con of all this will in turn be that users will have to make the deliberately small effort required to structure their nominations et al in the specified way for them to count
i considered designing titlebot to be really flexible about what to count as nominations, as that is the ideal configuration of a votecounter in mafia games (it's really dangerous and messy to not officially count votes that other users might mistake as votes!),
but i think it serves the seriousness of this thread (it's not GD!) and improves readability for current and future readers to require clear structure
this is similar to how the scummies nomination thread worked when it was thread-based, and i think i kind of want to go for a more light version of that thread's culture for our title discussion
still, i will handle the burden myself when users make mistakes structuring their noms, either by editting their posts or by telling titlebot to interpret your post as a nom or whatever

i'll also start using a special font/style for all thread moderating activities to distinguish official acts from casual participation in title discussion
as many of you know, lately i've turned against the idea that this place should be the fairy unilaterally deciding which titles should be approved or rejected
i favor community deliberation with the fairy focused on facilitating and implementing the outcome of that deliberation,
and the titlebot should be thought as part of the expression of this stance; it moves us one step closer to the dissolution of the fairy diktat

anyway, i posted this here not just to see your reactions to all this, but to field some feedback on these particular issues:

1.
What should be counted as a nomination/nth/etc?

My initial thoughts are that the vast majority of title noms should be of the form "nominate X for Y", all on their own line and with one of those 4 bolded. If a user or title or poster preference would make trouble with these requirements (some examples of this would be multiline titles, usernames with " for " in them, or when someone wants a line to include more than the nomination), they can wrap X or Y in " "s or ' 's (depending on preference or whether the name/title itself includes "s or 's). This seems to very nearly match how it's usually done (which is very important!), and I'll manually handle cases where it's impossible and edit posts where it
is
possible but not done as required.

Nths and antinoms shouldn't have to mention the user that the title is for. In fact, I should be able to accept bolded "nth"s and "antinoms" that quote a nomination or nth or are posted immediately afterward, but don't mention the title explicitly.

2.
How long should a nomination that doesn't get above-threshold support stay in the votecount?

I'm thinking 7 days since the last nth.

3.
When should votecounts be posted?

I'm thinking at the start of every new page, after events that reset the votecount (eg title implementation), when a nom reaches threshold, and if i want one

Does all this sound alright? Lemme hear your bs now instead of later.
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Post Post #5563 (isolation #533) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:51 am

Post by Psyche »

that's not constructive, and it wasn't constructive last time either
you're being a dick
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Post Post #5569 (isolation #534) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:10 am

Post by Psyche »

first of all, i think the mere existence of this conversation and many conversations like it itt proves that i'm totally comfortable making judgment calls people dislike
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Post Post #5574 (isolation #535) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:05 pm

Post by Psyche »

Whether a title nom goes through or not will never be the result of a simple count of nths and anti-noms, or of any automated process. Titlebot just keeps track of the state of the thread and posts/pms/changes titles when told to. The stuff it does is more thorough than what game moderators normally do, including linking to votes within votecounts and updating several posts simultaneously, in all enabling a more cohesive title nomination experience than would be possible under a typical Title Fairy.

***

My biggest beef with the "adult in the room" idea is that it's dishonest, either to the reader or to yourself. Just from your description of what the "adult in the room" is supposed to do, it's clear that what you're looking for isn't an "adult in the room"; you want someone to enforce your personal tastes over those of people who don't share them, even when they outnumber. You're using the "adult in the room" idiom and stuff like it because you're trying to vaunt said personal tastes to the level of objective truth as justification for prioritizing them over those of everyone else. I'm not going to be party to that, and I disagree that it's the role of the Title Fairy to be party to that. In fact, I'd say that every time a Title Fairy has been party to that, they've been bad in that moment at their job.

At the same time, though, I completely agree that a Title Fairy needs to shoot down nominations that fail to meet certain standards. However, imo this isn't because otherwise titles will get through that I personally or you personally won't like (as fairies have done before tbh), but because the noms and nths people post in the thread aren't complete windows into whether a potential title is accessible/appreciable to the broader community. When I say I want to kill the Fairy diktat, I'm not saying that the Fairy will abdicate this role, I'm saying that the Fairy will avoid imposing or privileging their own personal tastes and instead base the evaluation of whether to allow a title nom through mainly on expectations about how the community will receive it. The titlebot advances this by facilitating the demarcation between the fairy's exercise of administrative authority determining whether a title lives or dies, and the user's casual input as a community member about how they like a title.

If you don't like a title, it's very straightforward to make a post saying so, and even more helpful to explain why. There's a very long waiting period between when a title get nominated and implemented for you to do stuff like that. I've basically never allowed through a title unless it had
vastly
more support than opposition. If you happen to always be part of the opposition in these cases of overwhelming support for a title nomination, consider the possibility that instead of the title process being broken, you're just out of touch with the broader community's tastes.
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Post Post #5575 (isolation #536) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Psyche »

"i like you" isn't a pass for a pattern of dickishness, kk btw
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Post Post #5578 (isolation #537) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:15 pm

Post by Psyche »

yup
handles stuff btd brought up too
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Post Post #5585 (isolation #538) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:45 pm

Post by Psyche »

paradoxical to say i'm too willing to let titles get through that i don't like, but also that i consistently ignore everyone who disagrees with me
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Post Post #5591 (isolation #539) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:39 pm

Post by Psyche »

anyway, im grateful for all the feedback and will take it all into account for the next phase of my fairying
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Post Post #5597 (isolation #540) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:30 pm

Post by Psyche »

I think it’ll become obvious quite quickly that it’s doing more good than bad, but yeah sure I’m definitely doing it because I find it more fun than keeping things manual.
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Post Post #5599 (isolation #541) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:47 pm

Post by Psyche »

both of those are bland!
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Post Post #5602 (isolation #542) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:26 pm

Post by Psyche »

I've deliberated on your feedback, and I've decided that the titlebot will stay a meme. There are things around the site I could make bots for that people are less likely to label vanity projects. Furthermore, I will chart out a different vision for fairying that's even less concerned w/ the exact number of nths and antinths a nom gets than it already is and more concerned with the actual discourse justifying or discrediting individual noms.

Advise for future title-pushers and title-opposers is to give more time to explaining how your nomination 1) references an interesting incident, playstyle or characteristic of the user, and 2) makes the reference in an interesting way that's 3) accessible/appreciable to the broader community,
at least and especially the last one
. Whether a lot of other people agree with you ITT still matters a lot, but i will try to pick apart the reasoning, and the process will be stalled until i'm confident a nom and it's justification needs no further fleshing out.

This will ensure that title discussion is thorough, facilitate brainstorming, and give me a clear role in title deliberations beyond dictating my personal tastes and tracking support.
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Post Post #5613 (isolation #543) » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:29 am

Post by Psyche »

eurgh
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Post Post #5628 (isolation #544) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:22 am

Post by Psyche »

?
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Post Post #5631 (isolation #545) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:50 am

Post by Psyche »

tf is chickadoodle?
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Post Post #5637 (isolation #546) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:39 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5635, Espeonage wrote:Bruh this is literally the sitechat name for her artistry. Y'all wanted something that includes her art, this is it.

Don't throw out antinoms without knowing the context of the nom.
consider offering explanations for noms when you make them
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Post Post #5640 (isolation #547) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:05 am

Post by Psyche »

it's a rule but it seems a bit much to ban people over it rather than badger them / let their noms flounder
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Post Post #5693 (isolation #548) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:25 pm

Post by Psyche »

let me try to explain its appeal in my terms
title might be easier argued by translating it as "a god from a machine"
the reason we use "deus ex machina" to refer to these situations is because something miraculous/god-like is too clearly in fact a work of artifice, i.e. an invented machine
to the extent that the associated narrative just isn't as satisfying to hear

the nom for elli is nice because whereas the expression is normally applied figuratively (the "god" is usually a metaphor for some implausibly fortunate event and the "machine" usually refers to an too-obviously-artificial plot point) and seems to describe many games that elli plays (ruins?), for elli it's a bit more literal: he's become a god thanks in part to his use of a literal machine - or at least so the mythos around him goes. The title doesn't just refer to a thing he does, but per the function of titles it goes further to apply the idiom to describe what he
is
: a god from a machine.

It's better than a lot of the stuff that gets through. I wonder if we can make it do more? Like refer to something about who he is? Perhaps that's greedy. I feel like there's room for a pun here.
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Post Post #5697 (isolation #549) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by Psyche »

i like deus ex machina more and for around the same reasons as dino
it connotes a more nuanced attitude than "god from a machine", which suggests just outright amazement at elli's exploits
in contrast, when people normally talk about deus ex machinas, they're criticizing something: they're pointing out something that they think deflates or cheapens a narrative
in the same way, "deus ex machina" pokes fun at elli for deflating games with his program, rather than just worshipping him
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Post Post #5701 (isolation #550) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by Psyche »

i still think it could be a lost opportunity if we don't give it some consideration
a small pun on deus, for example, would still connote the basic joke and might make the title even more personal as well
but then again, maybe a worthy pun does not exist
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Post Post #5726 (isolation #551) » Fri May 04, 2018 4:08 am

Post by Psyche »

no one's gonna ever have deus ex mafia if elli's getting deus ex machina
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Post Post #5729 (isolation #552) » Sat May 05, 2018 7:20 pm

Post by Psyche »

moving forward on deus ex machina
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Post Post #5758 (isolation #553) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:03 am

Post by Psyche »

in honor of inifinty war i am randomly replacing 50% of all titles with doot
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Post Post #5762 (isolation #554) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:59 am

Post by Psyche »

i did and it was fun
but i read a lot of spoilers first
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Post Post #5765 (isolation #555) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:50 am

Post by Psyche »

im going w Deus ex Machina unless elli says "oh no not that"
those words specifically
if it were me id lowercase it all
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Post Post #5770 (isolation #556) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:40 am

Post by Psyche »

yeah idk what happened but right now im looking at it and it seems plain
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Post Post #5774 (isolation #557) » Mon May 07, 2018 8:58 am

Post by Psyche »

wouldn't say that it actually made it through the process if it was never given, and kk isn't the title fairy
you can feel free to nom it again, if it stands the test of time and people agree with you it should get an overwhelming amount of support
but i honestly think it's lucky that the title didn't go through; now we have a chance to come up with something that's good
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Post Post #5777 (isolation #558) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:33 am

Post by Psyche »

the process is completed once a title is given

it just would really put a bad taste in my mouth doing this after deus ex machina
like, there's a basic problem justifying a title nom by saying that it's identical to the name of a pop song: hardly any idiom is not the name of a pop song
is the song mr know it all so iconic that it stands out as a song to make references to in the same way smooth criminal or other noms are?
not to mention that the whole point of said pop reference was that it was in conflict with haschel's trivia knowledge and thus presumably also his interests/ knowhow
and without that, the title is just "haschel knows a lot of things", which is essentially nothing

i own that i screwed up not raising these issues then or implementing the title when i said i would,
but i think that just putting the title through now without even one second thought would be one more screw-up on top of these
if it's as good a title as what haschel deserves or i'm wrong to not hand it to him at this point, you'll probably be able to get the noms you need before tomorrow and you and i both will be happy about it
but i really think this is a good chance to brainstorm something before before something mediocre gets set in stone
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Post Post #5779 (isolation #559) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:37 am

Post by Psyche »

they're now officially instead of just implicitly expired
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Post Post #5781 (isolation #560) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:47 am

Post by Psyche »

my mistake was letting the title get as far through as it did, and i'm fixing it right now by putting my foot down. this isn't a negotiation, sorry. i've made my decision.
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Post Post #5783 (isolation #561) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:49 am

Post by Psyche »

If it gets enough support again, I'll implement it. I've already said this. Why do I have to say it again?
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Post Post #5788 (isolation #562) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:00 am

Post by Psyche »

If the title was always good and worthwhile, then title will get through. If not, then it should never have gotten through in the first place.
Rather than dumb, I think this is a straightforward way to factor in my concerns as title fairy about the nom without overruling the community's wishes.
If I'm wrong and being a dick, then the community can right my wrong very quickly with a quick flurry of posts. However, I think it's my job as title fairy to give noms I think are bad a hard time.
I believe I stumbled before in this role, and I don't think that commits me to stumbling again right now.
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Post Post #5790 (isolation #563) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:06 am

Post by Psyche »

I would not take away a bad title that went through. Titles that I have concerns about will always have more trouble getting through, and that's how it's always been.

And ani's been banned from the thread for 3 days for breaking the civility rule. Arguing with something I've cemented a decision about or calling me retarded is not going to get titles you like implemented. Bolded noms and nths will. As long as I'm title fairy, the community will always have the ultimate call over whether a title is implemented or not.
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Post Post #5793 (isolation #564) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:10 am

Post by Psyche »

When did I give him 24 hours to gather noms for a title? The title can re-nommed whenever anyone wants. It's my job to moderate this subforum.
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Post Post #5794 (isolation #565) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:11 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5792, Alchemist21 wrote:Have you even considered that some of us will just Nth it anyway because we feel it should already be there in the first place?
I've specifically said that they can several times since this discussion started. If you guys are going to respond to my posts, why don't you read them?
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Post Post #5796 (isolation #566) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:15 am

Post by Psyche »

you can feel free to nom it again, if it stands the test of time and people agree with you it should get an overwhelming amount of support
if it's as good a title as what haschel deserves or i'm wrong to not hand it to him at this point, you'll probably be able to get the noms you need before tomorrow and you and i both will be happy about it
If it gets enough support again, I'll implement it. I've already said this. Why do I have to say it again?
As long as I'm title fairy, the community will always have the ultimate call over whether a title is implemented or not.
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Post Post #5797 (isolation #567) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:16 am

Post by Psyche »

thereby negating the entire arbitrary process you've put in place for this particular title
which i would be totally fine with, please quickly get on with it
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Post Post #5805 (isolation #568) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:32 am

Post by Psyche »

It's not arbitrary.

My objections to the title are substantive and meaningful. And I've set out a clear way for the community to overrule me if they disagree with these objections. I've put tons of titles into limbo before. The only difference in this case is that the title got further along in the nom process before I limboed it. The title was never implemented, so I disagree with the position that I'm locked into it now. I have straightforward but substantive reasons for disagreeing with the title nomination, but as has often bein the case in situations like these, instead of just saying "no" to it, I'm letting the community decide if it goes through or not. That way, if my concerns or handling of this situation are wrong, they will be quickly overruled. But if there is merit to my position, they won't. I disagree that the most orderly thing to do when I make a mistake is to just double down on the mistake.

What I'm trying to do is right my wrongs while empowering the community to make the call about what happens next instead of myself.
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Post Post #5806 (isolation #569) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:33 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5802, Davsto wrote:That post was originally a lot more strongly worded but I decided to chill it so you had no excuse to ban me for
disagreeing with you
"being uncivil"
the original version of your post was fine!
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Post Post #5808 (isolation #570) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:34 am

Post by Psyche »

Do you disagree as well that ani crossed a line? Because I think there's a clear difference between how other users have handled their disagreement with my decision and how he did.
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Post Post #5814 (isolation #571) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:42 am

Post by Psyche »

It's completely natural for the Title Fairy and community members to disagree over stuff. I have gone through great pains to ensure that compared to previous Title Fairies, the community is empowered to overrule me when they think I've done something wrong.

I hope that no matter whether you disagree with me or not about my handling of Haschel's nom, you at least understand the effort I've undertaken to give the
community
not [/i]me[/i] power over how this process unfolds.
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Post Post #5820 (isolation #572) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:54 am

Post by Psyche »

I agree that it’s bad that I did not implement the title, but I also think it would be bad for me to implement a title I think is weak without giving it a hard time. From the moment I forgot to implement Mr. Know It All, or perhaps from the moment I let the title slide into haschel’s dms, I was already committed to some major bad thing. I believe I’ve set forward a process for the community to decide what to do with my mistake.
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Post Post #5822 (isolation #573) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:02 am

Post by Psyche »

anyway ill count ani as a yes for mr know it all atm
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Post Post #5823 (isolation #574) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:05 am

Post by Psyche »

In fact, now that I think of it, I’ll do one better. If the community doesn’t come up with a better title for Hash this week, I’ll give him what I said I would. I have no backbone, and that’s what I should’ve said in the first place.
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Post Post #5825 (isolation #575) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:15 am

Post by Psyche »

Well i dont think im spineless per se
It’s just an obviously superior way to respect Haschel while getting what I want, too
I can’t stick to one decision when I know there’s one that’s better.
Maybe that’s my problem.

Anyway, this way people can feel free to discuss the possibilities for improving the nom without feeling like they’re potentially denying Hasch justice.
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Post Post #5827 (isolation #576) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:18 am

Post by Psyche »

no i need to make the right decisions at the first pass that is my problem
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Post Post #5829 (isolation #577) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:29 am

Post by Psyche »

there are many ways to not do one’s job
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Post Post #5842 (isolation #578) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:04 pm

Post by Psyche »

with a brain like mine i cant afford to have a spine
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Post Post #5845 (isolation #579) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:36 pm

Post by Psyche »

nope
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Post Post #5852 (isolation #580) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Psyche »

Yeesh. Okay, you’ve both made your points.
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Post Post #5868 (isolation #581) » Tue May 08, 2018 11:35 am

Post by Psyche »

can we just get back to talking titles
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Post Post #5873 (isolation #582) » Fri May 11, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Psyche »

clock ticking
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Post Post #5902 (isolation #583) » Mon May 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Psyche »

im antinomming
As like a casual community membertm
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Post Post #5916 (isolation #584) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Post by Psyche »

it’s a lot of fking work
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Post Post #5919 (isolation #585) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by Psyche »

when i tried to get to work on automating much of archiving i got lowkey shut down by a listmod
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Post Post #5922 (isolation #586) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by Psyche »

somewhere else
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Post Post #5924 (isolation #587) » Sat May 19, 2018 7:55 pm

Post by Psyche »

its pretty objectively bad!
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Post Post #5935 (isolation #588) » Sun May 20, 2018 5:50 pm

Post by Psyche »

So...

I've decided that I should start winding down as Title Fairy. It's really easy to stick to something, to double down on something only because you've already put so much into it and want some "closure" for the experience, but I've always tried to be the sort of person who constantly questions the what and why behind what he's doing and then takes those questions seriously. And looking at why I tried becoming Title Fairy, what my ambitions for this subforum and in general were before and are now, it seems clear that I'm now a different person who wants to spend his time and energy and personal investment on different things. Despite the personal growth this experience has prompted in me and the good (decent?) titles I've helped give along the way, I honestly feel ashamed of how much I put into this thing. I find I just don't
want
to be the kind of person who cares whether Mr. Know It All is a worthwhile title or not, but to a key extent, that's the Title Fairy's job. So instead of chugging on for a to-do list I no longer believe in, I'm moving on to cultivate a new one.

So now we're in a moment of transition. I'll handle this the same way Chevre did.
If you're interested in being the Title Fairy, send me a pm explaining why you think you'd fit the position and giving me an idea of how you'd handle it
. What am I looking for? Ideally, it's someone who's active, well-known, maybe even broadly liked across the community's various spheres. Someone skittles like Zor would trust. Someone who can manage 'hot' discussions and is not liable to start them. Someone who has a good grasp of and respect for this institution and its traditions but isn't quite a slave to them. Someone reasonably thoughtful and well-spoken. If you feel like you're qualified but that I might not treat your application fairly, I suggest giving it a try anyway; I try really hard all the time to be really open and objective.

I'll keep running this thread like normal until I pick someone and have it okayed by relevant higher-ups, and I'll be taking my time doing that. Please don't discuss your or anyone else's applications around this subforum (it'll be deleted and you'll get warned), and please limit that talk elsewhere, too (it certainly wouldn't help your chances). Let's keep each application mostly between you and me. Please PM me if you have any further questions about this process.
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Post Post #5946 (isolation #589) » Tue May 22, 2018 9:59 am

Post by Psyche »

some things are better left implied

the next title fairy will understand
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Post Post #5950 (isolation #590) » Tue May 22, 2018 10:20 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 5948, SleepyKrew wrote:curious how the next title fairy would respond to the above post
ill make sure to mention this in the interview phase
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Post Post #5965 (isolation #591) » Sun May 27, 2018 10:32 am

Post by Psyche »

the next phase of the title fairy selection process will involve a game of mafia between the finalists with PRs distributed according to how much i liked their initial applications
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Post Post #5966 (isolation #592) » Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 am

Post by Psyche »

this is a funny joke i came up with
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Post Post #5969 (isolation #593) » Sun May 27, 2018 10:55 am

Post by Psyche »

I kinda like the caled title but agree it could be better
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Post Post #5986 (isolation #594) » Sun May 27, 2018 6:16 pm

Post by Psyche »

it made me laugh but in the “wow” kind of way
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Post Post #6028 (isolation #595) » Tue May 29, 2018 8:41 pm

Post by Psyche »

I can remember titles given to other users (like Ms Marangal) for their alts, and what was compelling about their noms is that they managed to do more work than just say they had a lot of alts, I think. It’s worthwhile to try making a title say something about the kind/traits of the alts she maintains.
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Post Post #6030 (isolation #596) » Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 pm

Post by Psyche »

Anyway, I think today will be the last day I accept applications, though I'll give later apps some wiggle room if they come before I move forward in the decision process. May send some followup Qs to applicants I have some questions for, and will finally pick the new fairy by the end of the coming week.
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Post Post #6032 (isolation #597) » Tue May 29, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by Psyche »

I agree!
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Post Post #6054 (isolation #598) » Wed May 30, 2018 3:31 pm

Post by Psyche »

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... eManyNames

man i wish the more the mariar were a good title
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Post Post #6058 (isolation #599) » Wed May 30, 2018 9:40 pm

Post by Psyche »

imagine it under that username
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