Mini 1990: Terror in the City (Game Over)

[Kop]

VOTE: TFL

We haven't even heard from everyone yet. I have a bad feeling about someone asking for scum leans already.

VOTE: Brassherald

That vote stinks. Opportunistic, and not worthy enough reason for me that warrants a vote.

[Kop]

@Fitz: That's a good point. Looking at Y's complete game, he gets straight into it when making his first post a similar number of posts in (as town).

@Kop: how do you feel about TFL?

I don't scum read him. I read his ISO, and nothing of note is pinging me apart from when he said that he is always lynchbait.

I feel at the current moment that he seems to be an easy out for a wagon without really much resistance. Scum are likely to push this one because I think they will feel it could easily take off.

I didn't notice that Brass took his vote off TFL, but I still stand by my point. His vote seems very opportunistic, not knowing the vote count on said person is just a non-viable excuse. That's careless and could have easily on another day hammered someone. Someone asking for scum leans isn't a reason to vote for someone, as I've seen countless others asking for peoples reads, it's virtually the same thing, you wouldn't really get a bad feeling towards the people asking for them reads in all honesty.

[Kop]

Scum are likely to push this one because I think they will feel it could easily take off.

I'm town, am I not allowed to push this?

I wasn't specifically say that you aren't allowed to push it, I said scum are likely to jump on to push that wagon further as it seems the easiest one to hop onto and not bring any attention with it.

The entire wagon could be all town, but I would think with a wagon forming on TFL so easily, I could see one scum jumping onto it.

[Kop]

I can go with that vote.

VOTE: TNE

[Kop]

@mod V/LA for today, will be on tomorrow.

[Kop]

Over read most of the thread again.

A few of the points I saw could be irrelevant at this point because that slot replaced out, however I am going to ask his replacement Almost50, to see if his side of opinion on the matter.

Spoiler:

@Almost50

Nothing actually happened while I was gone

VOTE: Hop

Seems like a better vote right now

now I know it might seem like OMGUS

But its only 15% OMGUS so its on the threshold

Do you agree with this vote? How do you read Hop, are you on the same level as TNE, or are you reading it differently?

@chickadee

VOTE: TFL

We haven't even heard from everyone yet. I have a bad feeling about someone asking for scum leans already.

That’s bad reasoning.

TFL is null for me so far, but I think all the votes on him are bad votes.

Since when can’t we scum hunt until everyone checks in?

I don't disagree with what you said to Brass, however the point that I do disagree with is, the fact that you have specifically said there were bad votes on TFL wagon. What I would be interested in, is what you see as the bad votes, and who you actually believe is scum being opportunistic. What you have done personally, is take a stance towards the whole TFL wagon, but not actually take it apart. The feeling I get, is that there is a chance that you are scum, see a wagon that isn't getting much resistance for it taking off, and your fence sitting trying to defend it subtly whilst not actually contributing to it by showing who the bad votes are. It reeks of if the wagon did take off and TFL is lynched, you'd take the stance 'I did say it was a bad wagon, there was bad votes on blah blah blah'.

I feel like I kind of already covered the TFL thing when addressing Brass. Didn't feel the need to bring it up again.

Yes, why do you not feel the need for it to be brought up again? I think I'd actually like to see your stance on the bad votes, you can't just say it's a bad wagon but not actually engage with any of those on the wagon, or even try to show us the bad votes then we can actually move forward on finding a ground that we can work from and find scum.

@Chickadee: Expanding on the above, the votes on TFL were (Nero, TPG, TNE, Brass, Hop). You seemed ok with TPG’s vote, later said mine was fine, and haven’t commented on Nero/TNE or followed up on them afterwards. It feels like you’re saying the entire wagon is bad, but only following up on Brass- while not looking at (or in two cases, not even mentioning) the rest of the wagon.

Idc personally I find your playstyle exhausting. I’d be fine with being lynched just to not answer your questions because I know you’re not gonna leave me alone.

This isn't a defence. I'm sorry, it's not a defence. This is coming off weird. I just feel, I don't know, as if you are trying to avoid the issue in case you say something that could incriminate yourself, I just don't know. I don't see a town mentality in this sort of defence.

@Assemble

Well, he asked for it.
VOTE: Yurkin
I want to see the Yurkin who suicide-bombed scum and unlocked the lynch, not the Yurkin who's never there.

Absolute cop out of a vote.

@Kokichi

Kokichi town lean for now - purely gut

@Nero, any thoughts on someone besides fuzzy?

What about my posts give you that feeling?

I don't know why, but I found this post weird. Why would you be so interested to see what posts give her that feeling?

On top of that, the whole interaction between you and Dunn doesn't feel genuine.

Chickadee, Dunnstral, why such empty opening posts?


-Key

I don't know, I wasn't invested much into the game at that time

I actually think this is a wagon worth starting:

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

It would be nice to explain.

Nah I'll explain

I don't think you've done much to be notable at this point, I think I would have expected you to notice me hard lurking but maybe I'm wrong

And what have you done that's notable?

Nothing, that's the point, I think you would have at least commented on that

Am I overthinking things?

So you're scum reading me for doing the same thing you're doing?

VOTE: Dunn

Nothing, that's the point, I think you would have at least commented on that

Am I overthinking things?

So you're scum reading me for doing the same thing you're doing?

VOTE: Dunn

That's not what I said though

Also, this is a bad vote and you know it. Are you trying to start a 1v1 with me?

It's the truth.

I'm looking at how I expect you to act, not how I expect myself to act

What do you think of my Chickadee post?

The whole thing is just giving me a strange vibe. It feels like scum distancing.

@nero

@Nero, any thoughts on someone besides fuzzy?

no, I'm happy and content in my tunnel.

idk. I'm kinda tunneling TFL and I'm not a fan of you or KOP blanket discrediting a TFL wagon but I know that disagree=//=dcum so IDK but no one else seems real scummy to me.

I'm still pretty much here. Also, add your name b/c you were against the TFL wagon too. But I'd prob want to lynch Mom if/when fuzzy flips scum for pushing this absolutely ridiculous "he's funny, lets keep him" line. The others don't strike me as scummy or are useless lurksacks that I guess could theoretically be scum but lets lynch TFL.

I don't like tunnels. And especially this one. I personally think you've tunnelled the easiest person you can tunnel, without any real content to back it up and just stuck with it, because you feel that it's the easiest route to go down.

Can you point out any other reason you scum read him, other than meta.

Fuzzy is normally a lurksack. I think its entirely plausible he rolls scum and goes "hey, I get lynched as a lurksack so I'm going to be active to not get lynched" I didn't really like his reaction to my naked, reasonless vote. It was very defensive. Of course, his excuse was he was "trying to get the game started" Maybe you buy that, I don't.

So really not warming up to his meta makes him scum? So in reality from what I'm seeing, the only reason your scum reading him, is because he isn't matching his meta, yeah? I'm sorry I don't really buy that as a genuine reason, people change, things change, circumstances change, I don't really look at previous games to base a read on in this game.

I'm happy to vote within Nero, Chick, Kokichi, Dunn.

VOTE: Kokichi

[Kop]

Well, to say the least: Hop is currently my top TR for the effort he's putting into the game.

I also don't think anyone else would notice you asked them questions in that spoiler because you only addressed me outside of it.

@Chickadee/@Asseble/@Kokichi/@Nero

you all need to read inside that spoiler Kop put in his post #334

Yeah, I made a mistake, should have made it clearer.

[Kop]

@nero

@Nero, any thoughts on someone besides fuzzy?

no, I'm happy and content in my tunnel.

idk. I'm kinda tunneling TFL and I'm not a fan of you or KOP blanket discrediting a TFL wagon but I know that disagree=//=dcum so IDK but no one else seems real scummy to me.

I'm still pretty much here. Also, add your name b/c you were against the TFL wagon too. But I'd prob want to lynch Mom if/when fuzzy flips scum for pushing this absolutely ridiculous "he's funny, lets keep him" line. The others don't strike me as scummy or are useless lurksacks that I guess could theoretically be scum but lets lynch TFL.

I don't like tunnels. And especially this one. I personally think you've tunnelled the easiest person you can tunnel, without any real content to back it up and just stuck with it, because you feel that it's the easiest route to go down.

Can you point out any other reason you scum read him, other than meta.

Fuzzy is normally a lurksack. I think its entirely plausible he rolls scum and goes "hey, I get lynched as a lurksack so I'm going to be active to not get lynched"

I didn't really like his reaction to my naked, reasonless vote. It was very defensive.

Of course, his excuse was he was "trying to get the game started" Maybe you buy that, I don't.

So really not warming up to his meta makes him scum? So in reality from what I'm seeing, the only reason your scum reading him, is because he isn't matching his meta, yeah? I'm sorry I don't really buy that as a genuine reason, people change, things change, circumstances change, I don't really look at previous games to base a read on in this game.

Firstly, you aren't new. Town tunnel all the time. What makes you believe that this is a scum tunnel and not a town tunnel? Secondly, its been ages but we have played together. I can't remember if I tunneled in the games we've played together or not, most likely yes as I tunnel a decent amount. Which brings me to my next point, tunneling is NAI for me. I do fake tunnel as scum but I also really do tunnel as town and players that have played with me before can confirm or you could just look at my past games.

I'm also just really confused as to why you are claiming that I'm tunneling him

SOLEY

on meta when the very next sentence I give a reason that's not meta related. Why did you ignore that?

Yes, I may not be new to this game, but it's been a while since I've seen a tunnel to the extent you've gone too. So whether it's a scum tunnel or a town tunnel, I don't know for sure.

I don't remember playing with you, so I can't really comment for certain how you played in that game were together, since I can't remember it.

So it's just meta and his reaction to your vote. Ok.

[Kop]

I'm also just really confused as to why you are claiming that I'm tunneling him SOLEY on meta when the very next sentence I give a reason that's not meta related. Why did you ignore that?

Could you answer that and then explain why you didn't answer that in 343.

I feel like the whole argument that you've based your tunnel on is meta related. One other thing doesn't necessarily add to the tunnel because most of the argument I can see, is you commenting on what TFL said about altering his game style, which has prompted you to latch onto it because it isn't matching up to his meta.

And I didn't answer it in my previous post because I'd just woke up and wasn't really focusing.

[Kop]

VOTE: yurkin

[Kop]

Might aswell claim, because every ****** has a hard on for me. If I was scum, I'd be sure to be consistent in my play rather than play loosely.

Town Jailkeeper.

[Kop]

VOTE: kokichi

Fitz, would you cater to vote for koki?

[Kop]

@nero I voted for yurkin as a wagon that would give us a lynch.

[Kop]

VOTE: kop

Don't like the claim.

What did you not like?

There's one thing that I will say, and you can go through my previous games, I have never fake claimed a PR as scum, I have fake claimed VT as it's the most convenient, but never a PR.

[Kop]

VOTE: kokichi

Fitz, would you cater to vote for koki?

What is your read on Assembler/brassherald?

What do you suspect about Koki?

I can still vote for Assemble/Brass. I still don't like how he jumped onto TFL early on in the game, and Assemble hasn't really altered anything.

Koki, is just a weird one, I think I already covered Koki, I just didn't get any impression that tells me this could be town.

[Kop]

VOTE: kop

Don't like the claim.

And a part of me, thinks this vote is piggy backing what Hop said above. If Hop didn't specifically said what he did in the post above this vote, I don't actually think Koki would have said this.

[Kop]

VOTE: kop

Don't like the claim.

And a part of me, thinks this vote is piggy backing what Hop said above. If Hop didn't specifically said what he did in the post above this vote, I don't actually think Koki would have said this.

Piggybacking? Hop kind of made a case for not lynching you today. Which his comments evho my thoughts wrt your claim.

The part where hop was aiming at not liking how I claimed. I just think koki expanded on that point and voted me.

I wasn't appealing to koki, I'd actually like to see his input as to why he didn't like my claim.

[Kop]

VOTE: Mom

L-2. I think overall, this would give us a lot more than what lynching Assemble, Dunn would.

[Kop]

VOTE: Mom

L-2. I think overall, this would give us a lot more than what lynching Assemble, Dunn would.

What kind of things do you think we'd get from either a scum or townflip?

@Gamma:
654 from me just above is a case on Mom.

How's your catch up going?

Lynching Mom:

Town!flip - We can look at the people that strongly pushed that wagon the most, and who opposed lynching Mom. Those opposing the wagon would hint at possible scum who know that Mom would flip town, so objected to lynching that slot and attempt to gain townie points. However, with that said, I don't recall seeing anyone objecting to lynching Mom, but we can clearly look at the others who decided to go elsewhere, i.e Fitz jumping on Dunn when it appears that Dunn isn't a wagon that really isn't gaining as much interest as Mom is.

Scum!flip - Those who pushed the wagon, we can rule out at possible team mates, because I don't think scum would bus a partner on day one. Yes it is a slight possibility but I wouldn't believe that would be the case. The only bussers would be the ones that jumped on by realising that it's probably the safest thing to do at the time.

Lynching a low profile like Assemble/Dunn, isn't going to give us any real information, like possible associations, interactions etc. If they do flip scum, great, but the biggest issue it's just a stab in the dark that doesn't give us a foothold on day two, and if there is any other PR's that don't give us anything, for us to move forward with information, we need them to come out which I object too.

[Kop]

I jailkept gamma last night. Note the flavour of the kills that chick mentioned.

VOTE: gamma

[Kop]

Why jk Gamma over Mom....who you voted much of yesterday...all the way to the end of day.

I was torn to who I was going to go for, but I was feeling dubious on how quick that Yurkin wagon derailed.

Kop's answer makes sense (not that I believe him) if you 1) employ reading comprehension and 2) consider that there could be a 3rd party based on the nk flavor.

Kop is obviously banking his entire case on Gamma on the fact that there was a non-mafia NK which involved stabbing. 

If we are opposed to this train of thought and believe mafia NKs will/could have stabbing as their flavor...then Kop has in fact cleared Gamma as at least not being the killer (though Gamma could still be mafia).

If we do not think stabbing indicates a 3rd party (sk or ??) then Kop's vote on Gamma makes no sense. 

And then there is also the option that Kop is just lolfakeclaiming to stay alive as long as his lurksackish self can.  Which is not out of the question given:

• - Kop was widely scumread D1
  - Kop has no business still being alive today
  - Kop's jk target doesn't make sense given his D1 suspicions...seems more like Gamma is the flavor of early D2 so why not implicate him?  Even if Gamma IS lynched and were to possibly flip town...Kop could just say Gamma must have been the target instead of the person performing the nk.
  
  - Kop completely dismisses the potential that Gamma was the target instead of the killer.
  
  
  - Kop completely dismisses the potential that mafia's nk flavor is stabbing.

Waiting until tomorrow and seeing if there is more than one kill or any kills with different flavor might be the prudent thing to do but I think Kop's claim and concerns listed above just ring scummy.

I'd like to hear Kop's thoughts on the points I list above wrt him possibly fakeclaiming and his "jailkeeping action" not being a conclusive guilty on Gamma..

And Fruzzy...I never said we should all assume there is a third party.  But it's not something we should totally dismiss either.

And you can't say there is "no evidence for " a 3rd party killer in the same post where you say "Flavor is not strong evidence". 

FYI..."Not strong evidence" is still evidence. 

So a 3rd party should be considered at some level.

Maybe we shouldn't look too much into the flavour, and use it as concrete evidence to confirm whether he is mafia, or he's telling the truth in being a VT, but I can't rule out in my mind that there's a chance in a game of this size, that there is a SK and the flavour is actually giving us information and we're half ruling it out.

I'm in the mindset right now, is to use that flavour as some sort of evidence, and push Gamma.

As for your question in bold, I am ruling out that Gamma was the target, purely because I don't see Gamma as a viable target. Yes Kokichi seemed the same in similar sense, but nobody suspected him, and I'm sure a few town read him because of how people weren't interested to go there. Gamma wasn't really in the same mould has what Kokichi kill was.

As the bit in italics, I am not familiar in a flavour where mafia stabbed. I've always played in games where SK was stabbing, Mafia shooting, along with vigilantes, and werewolves mauling. I've never participated in where mafia kills were put in the stabbing flavour.

[Kop]

Sorry folks. Weather is absolutely horrendous here in the UK, we are currently battling with the beast from the east and being a delivery driver, it's taking me a lot longer at work driving in deep snow and blizzard conditions, so I'm shattered when I'm eventually getting home and have zero energy to come on laptop. I will hopefully be on tomorrow or over the weekend.

[Kop]

I've got zero interest in lynching Mom. It shouldn't really be the topic of discussion if she's telling the truth about her role.

If we believe the flavour indicating possibilities, then that would point to a SK being in the game, and there's the chance that I jailkept scum (Gamma).

Whilst lynching Mom and skipping a night does sound like not a bad risk to take, if she's telling the truth, then we're effectively keeping the scum team at there full potential and being a townie down, then we need to discuss the next lynch the next day, and Gamma is going to be the topic of discussion again that day. And if we don't lynch scum, we are down another townie and then relying on me finding a partner, if incorrect, we could be down a further two townies if the SK doesn't hit scum.

So at this stage, the only real option I see, is lynching Gamma.

[Kop]

Um, pardon? I feel like there's an issue with your logic. Do you have other scumreads? Let's note that another night equals another chance for actions

What issues do you have in our logic?

Another night equals another chance for actions, how does that work if Mom is telling the truth, that means skipping a night phase?