Mini Normal 1985 No Spoilers (END)

[Fro99er]

GG FL. You def made the right kills

I had fun this game with a fun playerlist

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't recall where I saw mafia miller could be normal. I fucking hate myself and should really just stop playing tbh uif I'm not gonna fact check myself like this

[Fro99er]

You’re fine gamma don’t sweat over it <3

[Flavor Leaf]

I still don’t like the fact scum could have gotten wrecked Day 2. Role cop on encryptor, antihero on me, that’s game over.

[Fro99er]

Yeah I agree there FL on that part. It’s swingy-ish

I voiced game possibly being over D2 in the first review I did and got laughed out for it, and decided being a part of the NRG wasnt for me. I think we’ll just have to expect games can end D2 in 13p normals here

[Gamma Emerald]

WTF
Why is the NRG so dumb

[Flavor Leaf]

WTF
Why is the NRG so dumb

I mean, scum did win, so it’s not like it wasn’t possible.

Also, I literally said “did we really get double guiltied? If Mulch tracked you...” in the neighborhood, when I meant to say that to Creature.

I thought either Antihero was traitor, and I got guiltied. I thought that day 2 was all going down for me. In the end, I think that Day helped us kill Fitz, and then i got to turn it around by going Creature.

[Fro99er]

Also, I literally said “did we really get double guiltied? If Mulch tracked you...” in the neighborhood, when I meant to say that to Creature.

[Flavor Leaf]

And yeah, Gamma, I wouldn’t worry about it. I thought you played rather townie, and it was shown with Hawk refusing to ever vote you.

Just made the wrong decision at the end, which I was hard pushing for you to do.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, I literally said “did we really get double guiltied? If Mulch tracked you...” in the neighborhood, when I meant to say that to Creature.

It’s a big reason I didn’t want Chara in the neighborhood.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah I agree there FL on that part. It’s swingy-ish

I voiced game possibly being over D2 in the first review I did and got laughed out for it, and decided being a part of the NRG wasnt for me. I think we’ll just have to expect games can end D2 in 13p normals here

Part of the problem is that towns are so consistently ineffective you need kind of a ridiculous amount of power to be at all competitive... and sometimes you get setups where the swing is such that, yeah, towns can basically win on d2.

Something like a 3-man scum team with a roleblocker merits a LOT of town power to counter, and something like...

D1 roleblocker lynch
N1 vig shoots a goon, gunsmith checks the other goon, and for jollies let's say there's a doctor and a 1-shot BP as well doing things that don't destroy town

= D2 game over

But you run 100 times
goon, goon, roleblocker
against a town of vig, gunsmith, doctor, 1-shot BP

and you'll see scum win probably 55-60 of them.

As a simple example, my first mini normal was

goon, encryptor, 1-shot strongman
against vig, doc, tracker, 1-shot bp

and scum won it fairly easily (just one of them dead)

It's kind of shitty that towns need THAT much power to be effective... but they do.

[Gamma Emerald]

WTF
Why is the NRG so dumb

I mean, scum did win, so it’s not like it wasn’t possible.

Also, I literally said “did we really get double guiltied? If Mulch tracked you...” in the neighborhood, when I meant to say that to Creature.

I thought either Antihero was traitor, and I got guiltied. I thought that day 2 was all going down for me. In the end, I think that Day helped us kill Fitz, and then i got to turn it around by going Creature.

lol I didn't get it either
don't really know why Hawk didn't notice that tbh lmao

[Fro99er]

yeah, I agree with everything you said mhsmith -- and like I said, balance-wise I thought it was fine, so you're not gonna get an argument from me there on the run it 100 times over (I'm a statistician for a living, so I prefer to live in larger sample sizes anyway )

I also just personally prefer less swing where it can't end on D2 in a 13p game (or has a really really low shot of it), but that's me. I thought this game maybe had a bit higher of a chance than I'd care for.

One way to counter designs that need a ton of town power is by having less scum power so you don't have to give town as much power as well. Not quite sure how I'd do that here (limit the roleblocker to non-consec or 1-shot or something then reduce town accordingly?), but I'd have to think more on that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think encryptor being Mafia Ascetic and just not having scum have day chat could have worked, but I tend to like a bit more out there kind of normal games which I understand is definitely not everyone’s cup of tea.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that might have been my first game as scum in 3p lylo in my 4 years on site.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah you can definitely balance around lower scum power, but that's a mod preference sort of thing.

Ironically, scum win rates in 3-goon setups are substantially higher than in basically everything else (as of last time I checked, which was a few months ago iirc), which actually suggests that we collectively do a poor job of giving town the proper amount of power against a 3-goon team, and/or the nature of day play when scum have PR's that they need to keep alive provides additional information to town as things move towards mid game and late game. not quite sure which is the bigger driving force, but I suspect it's a combo of the two.

[Fro99er]

^thats not a bad idea (ascetic for encryptor)

Obviously encryptor was put to discuss the traitor stuff so as to not lynch their unknown teammate, but a good scum team should be able to work around not having day chat in a traitor setup.

PEdit x2

[Antihero]

I still don’t like the fact scum could have gotten wrecked Day 2. Role cop on encryptor, antihero on me, that’s game over.

and what is WITH scum being able to kill anyone they want amirite? i mean... me night 1 and chara night 2 then town's outa power

so broken, plz nerf

[Antihero]

Yeah I agree there FL on that part. It’s swingy-ish

I voiced game possibly being over D2 in the first review I did and got laughed out for it, and decided being a part of the NRG wasnt for me. I think we’ll just have to expect games can end D2 in 13p normals here

my response to that is if scum are playing badly enough to draw cop checks on the first two nights they deserve to get crushed

[Hawk]

Also, @Two - I legit was just away from the game and wasn’t really caught up, so when you came in and pushed me, it made it easy for me to post and tunnel onto you the first few days.

And yeah, I kill off my threats when they don’t incriminate me. Transcend, Antihero, Frog, all we’re my immediate threats that would have pushed me. Two got townie, and it allowed me to kill there. Chara was the kill that was worrisome for me, but it worked out.

Chara was the right kill. I pushed Chara harder than I needed to because I wanted you to bring him. If it wasn't sheep and down to the two of you after Charas initial reaction I flipped my read. But I couldn't say any of that going into f3...

[Antihero]

Part of the problem is that towns are so consistently ineffective you need kind of a ridiculous amount of power to be at all competitive...

not really

it's not that town need -ridiculous- power bc they're bad. it's that they need it to balance for scum getting a factional NK, which is crazy powerful even tho no one acknowledges it.

[Hawk]

WTF
Why is the NRG so dumb

I mean, scum did win, so it’s not like it wasn’t possible.

Also, I literally said “did we really get double guiltied? If Mulch tracked you...” in the neighborhood, when I meant to say that to Creature.

I thought either Antihero was traitor, and I got guiltied. I thought that day 2 was all going down for me. In the end, I think that Day helped us kill Fitz, and then i got to turn it around by going Creature.

lol I didn't get it either
don't really know why Hawk didn't notice that tbh lmao

Probably because I was scouring the main thread... I didn't dive into the neighborhood as much because I was there for most of it and it was much shorter....

[TwoInAMillion]

I need to find a way to be more convincing...

[TwoInAMillion]

Well played, FL. I am definately not backing off next time you are scum with me.

[Srceenplay]

Op had been updated with links.