The LSG listmods have put together a rough outline of what a possible grading criteria for games moving forward would look like.
We are bringing our first draft to the community to solicit feedback and identify any potential areas that need improvement. Below, you'll find a rubric, as well as a few examples of some games that have run to show what kind of rating they would get. We also think this would be a living document. It's open to evolving as games on the site evolve. If, at some point, communication outside of PMs becomes the norm (IE tribe chat rooms, open GD forums, etc) we would adjust the rubric as needed. The categories of each game, that is, the titles, are open for discussion. Not sure complex/twisty/standard/vanilla are really the best signifiers.
In this system, the listmod in charge would be assigning a rating prior to the game entering signups. This would be no additional work on the game mods' part. Game mods are also free to reveal as much about the grading as they want -- the only thing the listmods would reveal is final scoring. Game mods could then choose to reveal, for example, "This game is considered complex, due to
eliminations
and
idols/items
.
Complex Game: 15-20 points
Idols & Items:
Idols and unique items/powers are heavily prevalent in the game and exceed previous qualifiers.
Communication Methods:
Traditional PM communication either does not exist, or is only a piece of the full ways of ability to communicate.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
The game is in a fairly constant state of flux, or there are extreme methods of game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Multiple elimination rounds will be common, and/or players will be expected to be voted out in non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
The game will feature multiple unique/themed mechanics that are mostly or entirely secretive and players should expect to be surprised by design.
Twisty Game: 10-15 points
Idols & Items:
Idols could be re-hidden, or there could be more than one idol per tribe / Items & powers in this game are fairly standard.
Communication Methods:
PM communication exists, but there are multiple other potential ways to talk to someone.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur frequently, or there are non-traditional game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Players should expect that there will be occurrences of multiple eliminations in a round, or players being voted out in a non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists in this game should be expected, but they will be partially explained ahead of time.
Standard Game: 5-10 points
Idols & Items:
One idol per tribe, maximum, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication is mostly limited to PMs, with some minor exceptions
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur with more frequency.
Eliminations:
There's a potential for more than one player to be eliminated per round, based on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists only include twists/mechanics from the TV show, and/or any new mechanics/twists are fully explained ahead of time.
Vanilla Game: 0-5 points
Idols & Items:
There are little-to-no hidden items or idols in this game, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication in this game is strictly limited to PMs.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
There is only one (or none) tribe shakeups in the game per % of playerlist.
Eliminations:
Players will be eliminated once per round, based only on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Nothing in this game would be surprising to see on the first few seasons of Survivor (TV).
Spoiler: #2016: Twisty Game
Complex Game: 15-20 points
Idols & Items:
Idols and unique items/powers are heavily prevalent in the game and exceed previous qualifiers.
Communication Methods:
Traditional PM communication either does not exist, or is only a piece of the full ways of ability to communicate.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
The game is in a fairly constant state of flux, or there are extreme methods of game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Multiple elimination rounds will be common, and/or players will be expected to be voted out in non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
The game will feature multiple unique/themed mechanics that are mostly or entirely secretive and players should expect to be surprised by design.
Twisty Game: 10-15 points
Idols & Items:
Idols could be re-hidden, or there could be more than one idol per tribe / Items & powers in this game are fairly standard.
Communication Methods:
PM communication exists, but there are multiple other potential ways to talk to someone.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur frequently, or there are non-traditional game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Players should expect that there will be occurrences of multiple eliminations in a round, or players being voted out in a non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists in this game should be expected, but they will be partially explained ahead of time.
Standard Game: 5-10 points
Idols & Items:
One idol per tribe, maximum, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication is mostly limited to PMs, with some minor exceptions.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur with more frequency.
Eliminations:
There's a potential for more than one player to be eliminated per round, based on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists only include twists/mechanics from the TV show, and/or any new mechanics/twists are fully explained ahead of time.
Vanilla Game: 0-5 points
Idols & Items:
There are little-to-no hidden items or idols in this game, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication in this game is strictly limited to PMs.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
There is only one (or none) tribe shakeups in the game per % of playerlist.
Eliminations:
Players will be eliminated once per round, based only on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Nothing in this game would be surprising to see on the first few seasons of Survivor (TV).
Spoiler: PSV: Standard Game
Complex Game: 15-20 points
Idols & Items:
Idols are heavily prevalent in the game and exceed previous qualifiers.
Communication Methods:
Traditional PM communication either does not exist, or is only a piece of the full ways of ability to communicate.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
The game is in a fairly constant state of flux, or there are extreme methods of game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Multiple elimination rounds will be common, and/or players will be expected to be voted out in non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
The game will feature multiple unique/themed mechanics that are mostly or entirely secretive and players should expect to be surprised by design.
Twisty Game: 10-15 points
Idols & Items:
Idols could be re-hidden, or there could be more than one idol per tribe.
Communication Methods:
PM communication exists, but there are multiple other potential ways to talk to someone.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur frequently, or there are non-traditional game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Players should expect that there will be occurrences of multiple eliminations in a round, or players being voted out in a non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists in this game should be expected, but they will be partially explained ahead of time.
Standard Game: 5-10 points
Idols & Items:
One idol per tribe, maximum, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication is mostly limited to PMs, with some cross-tribal chat through open forums.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur with more frequency.
Eliminations:
There's a potential for more than one player to be eliminated per round, based on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists only include twists/mechanics from the TV show, and/or any new mechanics/twists are fully explained ahead of time.
Vanilla Game: 0-5 points
Idols & Items:
There are little-to-no hidden items or idols in this game, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication in this game is strictly limited to PMs.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
There is only one (or none) tribe shakeups in the game per % of playerlist.
Eliminations:
Players will be eliminated once per round, based only on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Nothing in this game would be surprising to see on the first few seasons of Survivor (TV).
Spoiler: LoL: Twisty Game
Complex Game: 15-20 points
Idols & Items:
Idols and unique items/powers are heavily prevalent in the game and exceed previous qualifiers.
Communication Methods:
Traditional PM communication either does not exist, or is only a piece of the full ways of ability to communicate.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
The game is in a fairly constant state of flux, or there are extreme methods of game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Multiple elimination rounds will be common, and/or players will be expected to be voted out in non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
The game will feature multiple unique/themed mechanics that are mostly or entirely secretive and players should expect to be surprised by design.
Twisty Game: 10-15 points
Idols & Items:
Idols could be re-hidden, or there could be more than one idol per tribe / Items & powers in this game are fairly standard.
Communication Methods:
PM communication exists, but there are multiple other potential ways to talk to someone.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur frequently, or there are non-traditional game shakeups.
Eliminations:
Players should expect that there will be occurrences of multiple eliminations in a round, or players being voted out in a non-traditional methods.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists in this game should be expected, but they will be partially explained ahead of time.
Standard Game: 5-10 points
Idols & Items:
One idol per tribe, maximum, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication is mostly limited to PMs, with some minor exceptions
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
Tribe swaps occur with more frequency.
Eliminations:
There's a potential for more than one player to be eliminated per round, based on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Mechanics/twists only include twists/mechanics from the TV show, and/or any new mechanics/twists are fully explained ahead of time.
Vanilla Game: 0-5 points
Idols & Items:
There are little-to-no hidden items or idols in this game, with no re-hiding of idols.
Communication Methods:
Communication in this game is strictly limited to PMs.
Swaps & Game Shakeups:
There is only one (or none) tribe shakeups in the game per % of playerlist.
Eliminations:
Players will be eliminated once per round, based only on who is voted out.
Mechanics & Twists:
Nothing in this game would be surprising to see on the first few seasons of Survivor (TV).
In post 3, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Adjust the scale from 4-3-2-1 to 4-2-1-0. That fixes the can't-have-less-than-5 problem and let's the super-complex games stand out more.
I support this, actually!
In post 4, xofelf wrote:I think a good way to test if these are effective is looking at our past games that are already kind of outliers like doctor who, Hogwarts, game of thrones and see how they fit. And if the rating doesn't seem right, we gotta fix accordingly. Like does knowing about twists before signups change the rating at all?
Yeah, the mechanics rating takes into account how much is known ahead of time.
I would argue introducing items into the game should count heavily because they're very volatile. Open to ideas of how to better crunch that down though
What would really help is if people with more familiarity with the games (IE the mods of each game) would give their games scores using the current set of classifications. I think just putting all the scores out there and going "where do we draw the line" is probably a good method.
In post 40, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Swaps and Shakeups: 2. There were multiple swaps at unpredictable times.
We should maybe define the swaps one a bit more because I hard-disagree with this and think anything 2-swaps and below should be a 0 and that 3 or 4 swaps should be a 1.
IMO it really depends on the number of players
3 swaps in a 24 player game is way different than 3 swaps in an 18 player game
oh nvm monty said this
and regarding the other questions:
Yes, it's enough of an issue that we need a way to clarify it.
MLS was a big impetus for this.
But also, the backlash to the returnee twist in Civ and what mods considered "not that twisty" vs what players saw as "not that twisty" means we need to speak with the same language.
Mafia games split and splintered into queues over time as the format grew because there became a need for people to know what they were getting into. This is our first step into that, because the idea of what it means to play a Survivor game has evolved over time -- both on the show, and online. Someone who comes in from ONLY watching the show would be completely flabbergasted by some of the things we consider to be "standard" in a LSG.
So, this is about creating a language that mods, veterans, and newbies can all use to understand each other.
In post 45, Shadoweh wrote:this raises some interesting questions around grey areas that we can consider:
DBZA Had an item that let you communicate with the jury. Do you think that should affect the Communication rating?
Civilization had a private forum controlled by the winner of it that let them invite chosen friends at any time. Should that affect the Communication rating?
what if it was a chatzy
In Magic Kingdom the majority of my communications with people weren't PMs at all, it was all skype chats and chatrooms. What kind of rating does that earn?
Do the 1-4 immunity necklaces handed out every round during the merge count as items/an outstanding twist enough to get max points?
I didn't mean that Big Brother in Survivor is normal :p but that we wouldn't use a scale that decides if survivor games are whack to say a BB game is normal so shouldn't do the other way around either and MLS was not a Survivor game.
I would say that both of the first examples would affect communications, yes?