Team Mafia 2018: Mafiosi Revolution (Over)

[Ginngie]

I want to give Cheet's thoughts on Ari some weight because he apparently knows him so well, and Ari seems like the kind of player that's very readable if you know him. Looking at his ISO in a scum game and a town one, I didn't get a very clear impression at all of the differences, and neither seemed especially similar to here. In the scum game I actually felt like his posts were a bit MORE game related and focussed, and lower in number, with a lower number of emoticons (Blessed Mafia). In camn's town game he posted a lot more than here or the Werewolf game, with a decent mixture of content and banter. I can't get a good feel for tone at all, and am probably looking at entirely the wrong things.

Looking at his stuff this game, some of his day 3 posts really do suggest he thinks the game is over: 3206 3306 3316 Dunno if he posts those as scum. Cheet mentioned that he himself would lurk out this period as scum, and if what he's saying about Ari's scumgame is correct, wouldn't Ari just lurk this out as scum?

2988 looks so town in some ways, and yet it bothers me how different this post feels to everything else he's posted.

I liked 3424 at the time, and still do. After that, meh.

Ari:

Can you talk about your Chara read a bit? It doesn't have to be something huge, but I feel like you've brought them up a few times even as far back as day 1, but never really talked about it.

Cheetory made a pretty strong case, but looking at Ari's posts was less conclusive than I thought. I could imagine him being scum, but I have to squint a bit and probably ignore what my gut tells me. I still think it's more likely to be Ginngie, but I don't have anything I can add to what I've said before on that. Unabombah melts my brain with some of his posts, but I still think his content is more... attackable rather than scummy?

[Ether]

Day 4, Votecount 19

---

Something has snapped within me
Something is sick of doubt
I'm through with sitting all alone
On every damn votecount
I want to see a role flip
I want to just get some sleep
It's time to trust your instincts
Close my eyes...
And sheep

-[

Defying Gravity,

Wicked soundtrack

]

3 Aristophanes (Firebringer, Cheetory6, Chara)
2 Ginngie (Patrick, UnaBombaH)
1 Chara (Kmd4390)
1 Firebringer (implosion)
1 UnaBombaH (Ginngie)

2 Unvote (Aristophanes, Spiffeh)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-23 01:00:00), on Friday, February 23 at 1:00 am EST.

---

[Cheetory6]

Today for sure. Probably starting ~2:30.

I'm only in surface chat mode atm.

It's stuff like this with absolutely no follow-up that really bothers me.
Ari made so many posts after 2:30 that are more or less just fluff posting/theorycrafting instead of catching up.

It could be lazyTown but like, man I just can't imagine being okay with Ari touching endgame when he's having this level of difficulty just seriously engaging with the game in a believable way. I've had scumgames where it feels like I need to read the entire game before posting to put together thoughts in a very careful way to prevent myself from making mistakes that people can jump on and that's exactly what this feels like to me. Ari has said he's been working on catching up previously and yet he has been waiting to put together thoughts on why he thinks certain people are scum. I think that method of dropping gutreads and not providing explicit reasoning is a lot more likely to come from cornered scum treading carefully.

TownAri probably pokes at more things and actually follows through on things like "hmmmmmm ginngie are you scum hmmmmm" instead of just joking it off when he's actually pressed on whether he'll do it. I think scumAri finds this stuff more difficult and I really think townAri feels worse about still being not caught up/probably just frankly replaces out to give the slot a better chance if he's having this much trouble getting into the game.

I'm ready to be convinced that I'm wrong, but singular posts addressing concerns that people have for you are a lot easier to make as scum than genuine scumhunting. And until I see any kind of convincing scumhunting from Ari I'm not postponing the pressure on him.

[Patrick]

Whenever I read a post you make against him I think he's scum <.<

[Aristophanes]

Cheet, I had no laptop access (well, I did but apparently I can't access Mac's wifi anymore) so I continued with surface level posting. I have now developed a huge headache and thus am tabling this for tomorrow evening. I know, excuses and no follow up are my scumgame markers to a T, but gimme a day before you string me up for it.

Of I never follow through I am obvscum. When I do follow through you'll see I'm just not all here.

[implosion]

VOTE: Spiffeh

[Ginngie]

bad vote

[implosion]

disagreement

[Firebringer]

Compromise

[Ginngie]

vote Ari

[Spiffeh]

bad vote

[implosion]

just like glancing at his last ~20ish posts they're so... empty.

He hasn't done any scumhunting in ages, he doesn't want to do any scumhunting, he's latching onto the easiest damn points in the world to latch onto, his only defenses of himself are LAMIST and saying that he'd be playing better/less lurkily here if he were scum... and there is a very, very strong trend in this game where scum have tended to say "but i can't be scum, there's no way in hell i would have done Z."

Cabd said there was no way he'd have not replaced out upon seeing he was scum with Mulch.

Mulch constantly berated me for scumreading/pressuring him while providing no actual substantive reasons to townread him. He constantly selfmeta'd.

I just can't buy spiffeh arguing that he's town in the way that he has been right now.

[Ginngie]

KMD has some really unfortunate reads on Day 1 with defending both Mulch and Cabd while mostly going after Kagami who has flipped town

I do think he would have really overextended on defending Mulch if he were his scum buddy but it's possible he thinks that's necessary with only a 3-man scum team. There are a few things I find odd and make it a little more unlikely for KMD to be the final scum buddy:

Re: Cabd

sounds like he's claiming Friendly Neighbor, which probably makes him town.

Independent of that, I've been a little fence-ish on him in general, but I have a reason (which I don't think will be respected by the crowd) to think that he's unlikely to pick up a scum PM for him team.

I remain curious what exactly he expects from me, as he knows I'm not a super-interactive player. I continue to expect something and remain patiently waiting.

Not sure where you are getting friendly neighbor from, but I'm surprised you'd be so quick to believe it considering you won a game as scum where your partner fakeclaimed friendly neighbor.

Not only does KMD seem to not even be aware that Cabd was claiming friendly neighbor, he scolds Kagami on believing it in the first place.
If KMD were scum with Cabd, I would expect
1. Cabd to brief his scum buddies on his planned fake claim so KMD should probably know about it
2. KMD to not shit all over a friendly neighbor claim if he knows his scum buddy is trying to save himself with one

Also this gives me pause

I only have one reason for reading him because the way he plays makes it hard to take him seriously. He has like 300 posts. Probably two are readable. So good luck finding them. As I've said before, if you want to policy Lynch him I'm not against it especially because it's what my team wants anyway. It just feels weird to do it when I think he's town. I will say I'd rather Lynch mulch than cabd.

because Mulch clearly had the better role and if given the choice scum!KMD would probably prefer to keep the roleblock over what was basically a goon. Especially since KMD had done so much work defending Mulch throughout the game, he wouldn't have had to make up a reason to justify wanting Cabd lynched over Mulch.

None of these are really smoking gun material for KMD's towniness but it's enough to make me doubt that he's the third scum.

goodposting

[Ginngie]

V/LA til Wednesday the 14th

[Ginngie]

scumread rekt

[Ginngie]

Also

Spiff is a mirror match up of Girls <3 Girls 2

so also town

[implosion]

Gamma was following along closely enough to notice me mentioning him, but he has no reads/input on the game itself.

Yeah this is probably the biggest indicator of scum in this game

Teammates following along but not having any input are probably not teammates of a town player

There's literally no point in following along if you're not going to give any reads and discuss things with the player actually in the game

(I have to check the actual context of this but as it is now it's p. damning)

this post just feels like scum saying "hey here's a thing i can latch on to" and latching on to it.

It just feels so noncommittal and unoriginal and icky. It's the kind of post that scum loves to make, because they get to explain reasoning in a way that makes it look like they're actually having a line of original thought when they're really just echoing what someone else is saying.

[implosion]

Whenever I read a post you make against him I think he's scum <.<

i also sympathize really strongly with this sentiment. Which makes me feel a little bit better about Patrick, who I'm a little bit afraid that I'm just townreading because i'm accidentally sheeping popular opinion?

But like. I understand keely's posts and sort of agree with them but simultaneously reject them and feel like Ari just can't be scum here.

[implosion]

Ok I've completed my reread

Time for the moment you've all been waiting for

Town: {Cheetory6, Ginngie, Kmd4390}
Townlean: {implosion, Firebringer, Aristophanes, Chara}
Null: {Mulch, Patrick, Eddie Cane, Cabd}
Scumlean: {Kagami}
Scum: {Toranaga, UnaBombaH}

ew.

[Ginngie]

why ew?

[implosion]

ew because that makes so much sense for scum-spiffeh to do, on a quick glancing thought. I mean, generally putting scumbuddies in a nullpile is really easy/convenient to do because it lets you leave potential avenues open to go either direction, and doesn't force you to fake reasoning for a scumbuddy being town which in some cases can be easy to pick apart or incriminating later. Ew because null on cabd just feels maybe off:

Cabd would be a scum lean without the friendly neighbor claim because he's done nothing worthy of being town read beyond that.

I honestly personally feel like that should be a townread on Cabd. I think that an explicit (well, i guess this wasn't explicit, but it was REALLY DAMN OBVIOUSLY there) friendly neighbor claim (even softclaim) should lead to him being in the town pile. Even if you have a scumread on him otherwise. I think other people might have done this too but it felt a little icky then too. It just looks like scum who wants to hedge because they know the claim is fake.

[implosion]

If scum-spiffeh puts Mulch in a town or scum pile, it's really inconvenient, because suddenly if he calls Mulch town he has to draw ire from all the people scumreading him and give justifications for calling Mulch town, and if he calls Mulch scum he has to bus in what looks like might otherwise be a day one Kagami mislynch.

Instead he does this, and sort of gives very vague justification for throwing Mulch+eddie as null that feels very blah.

[implosion]

@Aristophanes:

do you specifically not enjoy scum/enjoy town significantly more than scum, or do you just consider yourself bad at scum?

[Spiffeh]

Yeah I really capitalized on that null read on Mulch by never voting for him and easily justifying a vote on my stated scumlean Kagami to secure a mislynch

Oh wait that didn't happen

[Spiffeh]

implosion pretty much all of the stuff you're suddenly pulling out looks like you decided to scum read me and are combing through my posts in order to find some stuff to justify it

What do you think about my interactions with Mulch later in the day?