Valentine's Dance - [GAME OVER]

[beeboy]

Maki my issue is you keep not actually addressing my concerns in these engagements?
Like iddddkkkk.

Is not actually selling me on you being town?
Like long term scum play and your actions over the duration of a game is always what I felt like was the most readable aspect of your scum game and I keep getting red flags you aren't really addressing about that.

[beeboy]

Your making me want to town read you and work with you but I don't actually have a reason to do it in all honesty.

[beeboy]

Maki doesn't it kinda suck how often 1 of us is scum when we play together?

[beeboy]

Spoiler: Maki's Read On Me

Like srsly how do you have these reads yet I really don't get it
I think alisae is weird but that's normal
beeboy is prob town but like
..that's it?

So Maki starts off hard town reading me.

I think varner is town I need to re read the monkey because at first I was townreading them for the "I'm prob gonna get left out" it felt really genuine but then I figured that could come from both alignments
beeboy...ehhhhh I flip on this read really hard this was like one of my hidden sr's then I like forgot why I was sring beeboy
Kokichi I've already explained

Paranoia.

beeboy isn't scum because they aren't with alisae.
Beeboys lack of paranoia/sr on me is weird though.

More paranoia.
Maki never really tried to ask me about her read on her.
I try to ask her to elaborate on this cause her posts about me consistently show paranoia but she never tries to talk to me about her issues with me like paranoia is townie but towns actually try and follow up on it / try and work out there issues which I don't think Maki is doing.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Maki never actually attempts to reevaluate me as a result of this post.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Also I am kind of curious but did this ever result in anything?
I really don't actually think I am playing particularly townie this game which is why I am asking.

I looked at your posts and I think you're more relaxed then scum you would be
you're not omg obv town but compared to other pairings I wouldn't lynch you by a long shot

This is a pretty standard tone read?
Like I think a read on me would expand beyond this if she expressed paranoia about me all game.

Harambay is doing a really good job of avoiding actually posting a read list.


pedit: I mean I am playing exactly to what my scum agenda would be which is why I am surprised my friends all TR me.

I mean when you post stuff like this you're making it hard to tr you.

I don't think Maki actually scum reads me for this post in particular. Seems low effort I guess?

Dunn also finds beebitch towny and they were correct on beeboy being scum in the
last game that involved pts like this so I trust him

Drops paranoia without really trying to evaluate me herself.

wait beeboy should be white

Oops I guess I am not really town?

anti talk to me on bee/dan
I don't want to vote varner/reck at all there t/t to me

Oh I guess I should die now.

Firebringer - Shiro
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Antihero - Kagami

Fire-Shrio dies flips scum
then kagami dies and flips scum

leaves us with
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Dunnstral - Maki Harukawa

Recks posting feels towny on the last page even if I disagree with it
so lynch bee slot and we win?
Pedit: Your "I would do ___ as scum" and "I sr everything" is really really bad and I feel like you're doing that tryhard scum thing again trying to be lamist
or it's dan
eh

Sets me up as a lynch.

I value NKA really highly because most players tend to be disgusted when it gets brought up.
I don't think scum ever try and WIFOM a kill.

The kill always has a purpose and I don't see the purpose of the kill in a world where I am scum?

I'm voting you after I get fire and shiro to flip

this is horrid
idc what dunn's telling me in the pt

like you've NEVER said this before
I feel like you're just throwing this in to give yourself a better agenda and I don't really think town you would believe this ever you're better then

this

"I am going to vote you after Fire/Shiro flips."
"Declares I am playing to a scum agenda"

Like a combination of the lolcat during twilight Maki did.
I think Ali has the ability of reading Maki.
Then Maki comes into the day and just hard tries to setup the 1v1 against me.

Like idk.
I really like my 1 on 1 interactions with her but I feel like I am having trouble overlooking everything else?


I don't really like Fire's defense of Shiro all game and Shiro isn't that great himself either. I also think Fire's interactions with scum could easily just be S/S.

Idk I don't trust either of these pairs and I see the world in which they are scum together.

I'm not trying to set up a 1v1 with you. I was leaning on your being town of your pair. And then you come into this "why don't you have me as town based on NKA"
Nka is outright shit
like disagreeing is perfectly fine and all that but you're trying to act like you should be lock clear when...no? You also don't seem be solving my slot at all

"I am not trying to 1v1 you"
(please look up as Maki cannot be unaware she is trying to set me up to die)

So basically to not really summarize the quotes which are there to just back up this paragraph anyway.

Maki has expressed paranoia of me roughly the entire game.

Maki has not actually at all stated where this comes from

at any moment in time.

She says I more likely to be town for 2 throw away reasons the sheeping the Dunnstral read (which he never explains) and a tone read.

Maki knows that I town read people who scum read me and I town read paranoia.

She avoided having a read on me

or talking about my posts directly this entire game.
I assumed the general paranoia was townie but looking back at the read there really is never any follow up or anything that indicates that paranoia is coming from a town mindset. So I just feel like she is saying she is paranoid of me because it's what I want to hear? Like not interacting with me is 100% ok if there is nothing to talk about but if she was truly paranoid of me all game then I feel like she wouldn't approach her read on me the way she did.

Paranoid towns interact with there reads and talk about them while Maki is really just stating paranoia all game without specifying anything in regards to it or talking to people about me.

Then she opens the day by saying I am scum and starts to push me which also comes out of nowhere?
Without ever really trying to engage me or sort me herself?
And while trying to kill me at some point she says she is not trying to setup a 1v1 on me which is literally what she is doing?

Her entire read on me does not reflect a town trying to sort someone, it's scum acting paranoid to avoid engaging me.

tldr: bold sentences.

Maki has lock towned Venmar/Reck the entire game.
Has scum read one half of Fire/Shiro the entire game.
Doesn't really talk about Kagami until day 2 where she locks them as scum based on POE.

I like her read progression on Fire and Dunnstral and that's about it?
And I need to think this relative to pairs and I don't like Maki's lack of real read progression on the Fire/Shiro pair itself.

[beeboy]

Honestly the fact that everyone is just ignoring Maki having completely stagnant reads and not actually saying why she is town is annoying me a lot.
Like I don't care if no one agrees with me but just being completely ignored by everyone and no one explaining there town reads is kinda frustrating?

[beeboy]

At the same Maki your townread on Venmar and Reck

Do you not look at this and potentially see it's alignment indicative?

[beeboy]

Or Claire can just be scum.

pedit: PEOPLE WILL LISTEN TO ME IF I DEMAND IT.

Anti I think I got my Maki scumread back.
Does that matter?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH

Can you just lynch Venmar for me?

I 2 can use random arguments to support my reads.

[beeboy]

If I wasn't on phone I would explain its a mix of tone, the reaction to Gamma back on day one and

the nk which makes no much sense from her side.

wot

[beeboy]

Why does Maki kills Chess and ell? I don't see it as a valuable kill for her in anyway

Like who do you suggest Maki kills? (Is this player necessarily town)
Why is the kill not being taken place in regards to her buddies and not something for her?

Also Maki was lower half POE in Chesskids reads so IDK it even has the really straight forward meaning of "I don't want to die"

[beeboy]

I'm not ignoring them, I'm waiting for my more curvaceous half.

Even assuming a scum there though where are the other two Kags

remind me what you were waiting on again lmao
something meta something maki?

Elli was going to use his tools to meta Maki and never had the chance to do it.
Like I don't know it makes perfect sense as a kill?

[beeboy]

Also Maki had really awful tone and during Alisae's twilight.
Like that's what triggered my sus of her.

[beeboy]

Honestly the reaction to Gamma was my lock toggle the rest has been add ons. I don't see that being dragged on by scum.

P edit

You or me and fire in all honesty.(Assuming kagami is scum here cause otherwise killing anywhere but there is bad in its own way) And then there is that. She can only be scum with kagami imo but leave that aside.

If you say me and fire are bad I disagree. Not matter how it looks like everyone knows I am very hard to mislynch

Uh why does Maki kill the slot she can lynch (you)
Or kill the slot with the player that doesn't intend on playing (Dan)

Your conf biasing the shit out of this Shiro.

[beeboy]

Elli declared he was going to meta Maki
Chesskid had her as lower half


It really is a kill she'd make or be ok with if her buddies wanted.

[beeboy]

Like long term scum play and your actions over the duration of a game is always what I felt like was the most readable aspect of your scum game and I keep getting red flags you aren't really addressing about that.

Maki has an a lot weaker scum game as far as long term play is concerned, while her ability to engage people and look town in multiple short term engagements is really strong. So I think you should look at this from the POV I am looking at this from?
So I don't think 1 engagement with Gamma isn't enough to call her town and like I still feel like your over looking her read progression this game.

Like I am not even sure why you think the Gamma engagement was townie?
But idk either way maybe acknowledge that the engagement isn't worth overlooking her play over the entire duration of the game?

[beeboy]

Because I am not mislynchable. That is a fact. If engaged too much I obv town to death

Do you think kagami is also scum?

You seem pretty mislynchable atm? Like especially compared to Elli and Chesskid.
You have been bottom half of the POE across the board all game.

Kagami is probably town but I am willing to reconsider it I guess but not now?
I wanted to refrain from killing in Dan/Kagami since there is at max 1 scum between us while there is 2 scum across the other 3 sets.

[beeboy]

I can iso her after work tbh.

Still though, who do you think she can be scum with?

Firebringer and Dan.
Maybe Kagami upon review?
I think she only isn't aligned with the Reck pair?

[beeboy]

Spoiler: Maki's Read On Me

Like srsly how do you have these reads yet I really don't get it
I think alisae is weird but that's normal
beeboy is prob town but like
..that's it?

So Maki starts off hard town reading me.

I think varner is town I need to re read the monkey because at first I was townreading them for the "I'm prob gonna get left out" it felt really genuine but then I figured that could come from both alignments
beeboy...ehhhhh I flip on this read really hard this was like one of my hidden sr's then I like forgot why I was sring beeboy
Kokichi I've already explained

Paranoia.

beeboy isn't scum because they aren't with alisae.
Beeboys lack of paranoia/sr on me is weird though.

More paranoia.
Maki never really tried to ask me about her read on her.
I try to ask her to elaborate on this cause her posts about me consistently show paranoia but she never tries to talk to me about her issues with me like paranoia is townie but towns actually try and follow up on it / try and work out there issues which I don't think Maki is doing.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Maki never actually attempts to reevaluate me as a result of this post.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Also I am kind of curious but did this ever result in anything?
I really don't actually think I am playing particularly townie this game which is why I am asking.

I looked at your posts and I think you're more relaxed then scum you would be
you're not omg obv town but compared to other pairings I wouldn't lynch you by a long shot

This is a pretty standard tone read?
Like I think a read on me would expand beyond this if she expressed paranoia about me all game.

Harambay is doing a really good job of avoiding actually posting a read list.


pedit: I mean I am playing exactly to what my scum agenda would be which is why I am surprised my friends all TR me.

I mean when you post stuff like this you're making it hard to tr you.

I don't think Maki actually scum reads me for this post in particular. Seems low effort I guess?

Dunn also finds beebitch towny and they were correct on beeboy being scum in the
last game that involved pts like this so I trust him

Drops paranoia without really trying to evaluate me herself.

wait beeboy should be white

Oops I guess I am not really town?

anti talk to me on bee/dan
I don't want to vote varner/reck at all there t/t to me

Oh I guess I should die now.

Firebringer - Shiro
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Antihero - Kagami

Fire-Shrio dies flips scum
then kagami dies and flips scum

leaves us with
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Dunnstral - Maki Harukawa

Recks posting feels towny on the last page even if I disagree with it
so lynch bee slot and we win?
Pedit: Your "I would do ___ as scum" and "I sr everything" is really really bad and I feel like you're doing that tryhard scum thing again trying to be lamist
or it's dan
eh

Sets me up as a lynch.

I value NKA really highly because most players tend to be disgusted when it gets brought up.
I don't think scum ever try and WIFOM a kill.

The kill always has a purpose and I don't see the purpose of the kill in a world where I am scum?

I'm voting you after I get fire and shiro to flip

this is horrid
idc what dunn's telling me in the pt

like you've NEVER said this before
I feel like you're just throwing this in to give yourself a better agenda and I don't really think town you would believe this ever you're better then

this

"I am going to vote you after Fire/Shiro flips."
"Declares I am playing to a scum agenda"

Like a combination of the lolcat during twilight Maki did.
I think Ali has the ability of reading Maki.
Then Maki comes into the day and just hard tries to setup the 1v1 against me.

Like idk.
I really like my 1 on 1 interactions with her but I feel like I am having trouble overlooking everything else?


I don't really like Fire's defense of Shiro all game and Shiro isn't that great himself either. I also think Fire's interactions with scum could easily just be S/S.

Idk I don't trust either of these pairs and I see the world in which they are scum together.

I'm not trying to set up a 1v1 with you. I was leaning on your being town of your pair. And then you come into this "why don't you have me as town based on NKA"
Nka is outright shit
like disagreeing is perfectly fine and all that but you're trying to act like you should be lock clear when...no? You also don't seem be solving my slot at all

"I am not trying to 1v1 you"
(please look up as Maki cannot be unaware she is trying to set me up to die)

So basically to not really summarize the quotes which are there to just back up this paragraph anyway.

Maki has expressed paranoia of me roughly the entire game.

Maki has not actually at all stated where this comes from

at any moment in time.

She says I more likely to be town for 2 throw away reasons the sheeping the Dunnstral read (which he never explains) and a tone read.

Maki knows that I town read people who scum read me and I town read paranoia.

She avoided having a read on me

or talking about my posts directly this entire game.
I assumed the general paranoia was townie but looking back at the read there really is never any follow up or anything that indicates that paranoia is coming from a town mindset. So I just feel like she is saying she is paranoid of me because it's what I want to hear? Like not interacting with me is 100% ok if there is nothing to talk about but if she was truly paranoid of me all game then I feel like she wouldn't approach her read on me the way she did.

Paranoid towns interact with there reads and talk about them while Maki is really just stating paranoia all game without specifying anything in regards to it or talking to people about me.

Then she opens the day by saying I am scum and starts to push me which also comes out of nowhere?
Without ever really trying to engage me or sort me herself?
And while trying to kill me at some point she says she is not trying to setup a 1v1 on me which is literally what she is doing?

Her entire read on me does not reflect a town trying to sort someone, it's scum acting paranoid to avoid engaging me.

tldr: bold sentences.

Maki has lock towned Venmar/Reck the entire game.
Has scum read one half of Fire/Shiro the entire game.
Doesn't really talk about Kagami until day 2 where she locks them as scum based on POE.

I like her read progression on Fire and Dunnstral and that's about it?
And I need to think this relative to pairs and I don't like Maki's lack of real read progression on the Fire/Shiro pair itself.

Like read the bolded to get her read on me in the first post.
Find a spot in the game where she would consider killing Reck.
Try and find a spot in the game where she won't kill your pair.
Then Ctrl+F Kagami.

[beeboy]

Like read the bolded in that post where i explain the paranoia is really meh and not town.
Then ctrl+f living player names.
I am trying really hard to make this clear.

[beeboy]

One of those pairs is being voted by me

[beeboy]

VOTE: Maki/Dunn

Your wrong on both Shiro and Dunnstral but you know what!
I am ok with that because whatever works.

[beeboy]

I though you scumread me bee??

I think Firebringer is aligned with Maki.
But I guess you upcoming reevaluation will also help me with my read.

[beeboy]

need 3 more venreck votes

4 more Maki/Dunn votes

[beeboy]

Venmar I always thought was town.
And I am starting to doubt my Reck scum read as well :/

[beeboy]

Spoiler: Maki's Read On Me

Like srsly how do you have these reads yet I really don't get it
I think alisae is weird but that's normal
beeboy is prob town but like
..that's it?

So Maki starts off hard town reading me.

I think varner is town I need to re read the monkey because at first I was townreading them for the "I'm prob gonna get left out" it felt really genuine but then I figured that could come from both alignments
beeboy...ehhhhh I flip on this read really hard this was like one of my hidden sr's then I like forgot why I was sring beeboy
Kokichi I've already explained

Paranoia.

beeboy isn't scum because they aren't with alisae.
Beeboys lack of paranoia/sr on me is weird though.

More paranoia.
Maki never really tried to ask me about her read on her.
I try to ask her to elaborate on this cause her posts about me consistently show paranoia but she never tries to talk to me about her issues with me like paranoia is townie but towns actually try and follow up on it / try and work out there issues which I don't think Maki is doing.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Maki never actually attempts to reevaluate me as a result of this post.

I need to see if I'm bias tring beeboy again...I don't think so but it doesn't hurt

Also I am kind of curious but did this ever result in anything?
I really don't actually think I am playing particularly townie this game which is why I am asking.

I looked at your posts and I think you're more relaxed then scum you would be
you're not omg obv town but compared to other pairings I wouldn't lynch you by a long shot

This is a pretty standard tone read?
Like I think a read on me would expand beyond this if she expressed paranoia about me all game.

Harambay is doing a really good job of avoiding actually posting a read list.


pedit: I mean I am playing exactly to what my scum agenda would be which is why I am surprised my friends all TR me.

I mean when you post stuff like this you're making it hard to tr you.

I don't think Maki actually scum reads me for this post in particular. Seems low effort I guess?

Dunn also finds beebitch towny and they were correct on beeboy being scum in the
last game that involved pts like this so I trust him

Drops paranoia without really trying to evaluate me herself.

wait beeboy should be white

Oops I guess I am not really town?

anti talk to me on bee/dan
I don't want to vote varner/reck at all there t/t to me

Oh I guess I should die now.

Firebringer - Shiro
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Antihero - Kagami

Fire-Shrio dies flips scum
then kagami dies and flips scum

leaves us with
Venmar - xRECKONERx
beeboy - ActionDan
Dunnstral - Maki Harukawa

Recks posting feels towny on the last page even if I disagree with it
so lynch bee slot and we win?
Pedit: Your "I would do ___ as scum" and "I sr everything" is really really bad and I feel like you're doing that tryhard scum thing again trying to be lamist
or it's dan
eh

Sets me up as a lynch.

I value NKA really highly because most players tend to be disgusted when it gets brought up.
I don't think scum ever try and WIFOM a kill.

The kill always has a purpose and I don't see the purpose of the kill in a world where I am scum?

I'm voting you after I get fire and shiro to flip

this is horrid
idc what dunn's telling me in the pt

like you've NEVER said this before
I feel like you're just throwing this in to give yourself a better agenda and I don't really think town you would believe this ever you're better then

this

"I am going to vote you after Fire/Shiro flips."
"Declares I am playing to a scum agenda"

Like a combination of the lolcat during twilight Maki did.
I think Ali has the ability of reading Maki.
Then Maki comes into the day and just hard tries to setup the 1v1 against me.

Like idk.
I really like my 1 on 1 interactions with her but I feel like I am having trouble overlooking everything else?


I don't really like Fire's defense of Shiro all game and Shiro isn't that great himself either. I also think Fire's interactions with scum could easily just be S/S.

Idk I don't trust either of these pairs and I see the world in which they are scum together.

I'm not trying to set up a 1v1 with you. I was leaning on your being town of your pair. And then you come into this "why don't you have me as town based on NKA"
Nka is outright shit
like disagreeing is perfectly fine and all that but you're trying to act like you should be lock clear when...no? You also don't seem be solving my slot at all

"I am not trying to 1v1 you"
(please look up as Maki cannot be unaware she is trying to set me up to die)

So basically to not really summarize the quotes which are there to just back up this paragraph anyway.

Maki has expressed paranoia of me roughly the entire game.

Maki has not actually at all stated where this comes from

at any moment in time.

She says I more likely to be town for 2 throw away reasons the sheeping the Dunnstral read (which he never explains) and a tone read.

Maki knows that I town read people who scum read me and I town read paranoia.

She avoided having a read on me

or talking about my posts directly this entire game.
I assumed the general paranoia was townie but looking back at the read there really is never any follow up or anything that indicates that paranoia is coming from a town mindset. So I just feel like she is saying she is paranoid of me because it's what I want to hear? Like not interacting with me is 100% ok if there is nothing to talk about but if she was truly paranoid of me all game then I feel like she wouldn't approach her read on me the way she did.

Paranoid towns interact with there reads and talk about them while Maki is really just stating paranoia all game without specifying anything in regards to it or talking to people about me.

Then she opens the day by saying I am scum and starts to push me which also comes out of nowhere?
Without ever really trying to engage me or sort me herself?
And while trying to kill me at some point she says she is not trying to setup a 1v1 on me which is literally what she is doing?

Her entire read on me does not reflect a town trying to sort someone, it's scum acting paranoid to avoid engaging me.

tldr: bold sentences.

Maki has lock towned Venmar/Reck the entire game.
Has scum read one half of Fire/Shiro the entire game.
Doesn't really talk about Kagami until day 2 where she locks them as scum based on POE.

I like her read progression on Fire and Dunnstral and that's about it?
And I need to think this relative to pairs and I don't like Maki's lack of real read progression on the Fire/Shiro pair itself.

[beeboy]

I am going to just stop waiting for this, but now that I am bringing this up Maki doing a follow up kinda loses cred.

When I asked her about her lack of read progression and ever really stating a reason to have any kind of read on my slot she kinda just said she had a thought process rather then actually stating what it was.

And for every single pair outside my own (where she never really spoke about reasoning) her reads on all the teams have stayed the same throughout the entire game.
She never really spoke about Kagami all game and Kagami is now lock scum for POE?
She locked town Venreck all game.
Has been pushing to kill one of Fire/Shiro all game.

Like I don't know when I read her iso and look at her individual reads I don't see how it comes from a town POV ever? Like Maki doesn't play mafia like that and she isn't town this game.

[beeboy]

I also don't really like her twilight?
Also I am tired of everyone calling Maki town and not actually saying why, outside Shiro who said the Gamma interactions.
But I am not sure if Shiro ISOd her like he promised >:(

[beeboy]

well idk why

on either count

I still think the pushing the IC thing comes from town in all honesty even if you hate that as a line of reasoning in regards to Venmar.
Like if Venmar is scum he is making it is primary goal to just piss everyone off and I think wanting all that attention comes from town 9/10 times?
I also just town read his Alisae read in all honesty.


For Reck.
His early posts I just town read in general? His push on Harambey really wasn't needed the whole "lol fck harambey being a newbie" i think is more likely to come from town since that wasn't really needed to push him.
I think generally his thought processes come from a town POV?

He has had some reads he held for way too long and I didn't really like that.
And his most recent post was kinda bad as well?

But like the first reason applies to Maki 10x harder and the 2nd reason I guess I am more willing to overlook at this stage since I don't want to read people based on individual posts when people are just getting lazy across the board.

[beeboy]

Ctrl+f player names to see her read progression.
Read progression you should be looking at on an individual basis?

Like read her entire ISO when you get home if you'd like but I think looking at this stuff individually is also important.

[beeboy]

(obv you can't ctrl+f shit on a phone but like before you iso her do that tyty)

[beeboy]

I still think the pushing the IC thing comes from town in all honesty even if you hate that as a line of reasoning in regards to Venmar.
Like if Venmar is scum he is making it is primary goal to just piss everyone off and I think wanting all that attention comes from town 9/10 times?
I also just town read his Alisae read in all honesty.

he hasn't pissed anyone off besides me as far as i know... he spat venom at ME (and i think chesskid and harambe?) but he hasn't gone out of the way to alienate himself to the game in general sooooooo i really don't know what you're talking about. and all the ppl he's lashed out at were voting/suspecting him anyway so it's not like he's gone out of his way to make enemies this game.

and yeah you're right i don't think discrediting the IC is town

idk what all the "town POV" stuff is or how you're gathering it. neither reck nor ven have pushed anything good all game. the KO, ali, and harambe pushes from ven were all bull (and the dunn push is bull now) and the chesskid OMGUS from reck was bull. [aaaaand THEY WERE ALL TOWN. predictably.]

which push was from a town POV? quote it.

Kinda garbage to say that Maki has done any good pushes this game as well.

Scum are less likely to hard push lynches early then town are in a nightless setup and both Venmar and Reck balls deep pushing people early in a way that I don't really take issue with. (Venmar to Alisae, Reck to Chesskid, Alisae, Me) in particular.

Maki pushed Ali, Maki pushed Gamma and ignored Chesskid.
Like I the pushing town argument kinda just applies to anyone almost at random and doesn't hold a lot of weight? Like Maki didn't go deep pushing Gamma in all honesty. And going deep is what I'd consider separates the town from scum in this regard.

Like what Pie did in the last lover's game we were in together to Cakez is I guess the comparable example I can come up with. (oh boy that was a long time ago) Like Reck is giving me the vibes pie gave me that game when I read his Chess read. And you just think Venmar is the one less likely to flip scum so I think on some level you have to agree with me on that?

I don't know no one has yet to talk to me about my Maki read. People are just getting mad about it which is dumb because if someone reasonably explained why Maki was town then maybe I wouldn't have grounds to keep pushing her. And honestly I don't want to push someone this hard it's just very difficult to not do that when I am the only one willing to talk about the slot.

[beeboy]

bee:

- I told her not to talk about Kagami pre-dance. I told this to you guys as well.
- I talked about my read on you to her
- Her reads aren't stagnant and I've talked to you about the gamma/harambey thing

And it's hard to sympathize with you when you're pushing my slot for death while also going on about how venmar/reck is town and how you might leave the dance if we're both town
Like, look at post 2777?

I actually think us leaving -> you leaving has a high chance of a town loss, no thanks, if you think maki is scum and always with fire, you should just be trying to lynch them? And if, for instance, Shiro is scum but not fire, you won't think Maki is scum?

Like your Maki read has some conditionals on who else has to be scum with her so you should be looking there first?
I don't want to be the next pair voted out in any case, I think some of the stuff you have posted is wrong and I'm concerned about how you're reading the game otherwise

My Fire read is the one with conditionals not Maki actually.
I think Maki being scum is completely independent from everything else.

I think POE is a bad excuse to scum read Kagami.
I heavily disagree on Maki's reads not being stagnant. She unvoted Gamma for the AtE thing which I think Maki is just sensitive to regardless of her alignment? I don't think it's fair to look at that one instance and unvote by her and say that my argument of her having 0 other read progression is mute. Cause like I feel like Maki would feel bad pushing that through as scum.

[beeboy]

Didn't you say earlier that you thought maki needed to set up a 1v1 with your pair to be lynched eventually? But then you later think actiondan could be scum with maki, does this all still make sense

She was setting this up at the start of this day phase is what I said, I think?
She outright said she would try and get me lynched after Shiro/Fire.

[beeboy]

Scum are less likely to hard push lynches early then town are in a nightless setup

what is this based on?

Experience while playing nightless games?
The people who go super hard trying to get people lynched are a lot more likely to be town.

I am sure you can find an instance of scum doing it? But I can't really think of one off the top of my head.
Like we can argue WIFOM but I don't really want to go in circles about that.

[beeboy]

idk what maki has to do with venreck

Well Maki is my top scum read if you haven't noticed.
I don't think Maki and Reckmar are aligned.

So I go for the stronger read first before I attempt another push.

Also just in general I am just voting my strongest scum read.

[beeboy]

I don't think Maki hard town reads a scum buddy the way she does Reckmar this game.
Her buddies are the people lower on her read list she is either talking about lynching in the future Dan/Kagami.
Or people she had some kind of progression on like Firebringer.

Because you'd be more self aware as scum.
Also, I changed my mind on Kagami
I think Maki is always scum.
I don't think Reckmar is scum with Maki.

And lynching Reckmar first kinda just tosses a pretty easy win into the garbage?

[beeboy]

If I vote Reckmar and they flip town then everyone refuses to consider Maki for scum still and don't actually ever reply to Maki case can I be really bitter the entire time and exclaim how I hate mafia?

[beeboy]

I am willing to just move on but I am not happy about it.

[beeboy]

VOTE: Reckmar

I don't think this is right but I don't want to yell for another 20 pages only to end up at the same point and be toxic.

I think I spoke about my read as much as I could.
I feel like a lot of things are just being ignored but like whatever I accept that sometimes you just have to move on.

Like I really just don't feel good about this :/

[beeboy]

If like I am at a 7 right now.
This flipping town brings me up to like a 9.

If this flips scum ima just shut up for the rest of the game.

[beeboy]

I would still be astonished if Maki-Dunn is scum-free.

Ok I have decided voting town reads is stupid

VOTE: MakiDunn

Let's go.

[beeboy]

I don't think Maki hard town reads a scum buddy the way she does Reckmar this game.
Her buddies are the people lower on her read list she is either talking about lynching in the future Dan/Kagami.
Or people she had some kind of progression on like Firebringer.

Because you'd be more self aware as scum.

I think she wouldn't just lock town a buddy as town all game, she'd be more self aware and try distance / like give herself room for doubt so people can look and not have her look completely awful.

[beeboy]

DID U REALLY JUST SAY SHE HAS PROGRESSION ON THE DUNN READ.
WHICH IS LIKE THE ONE READ I SAID SHE HAD PROGRESSION ON CAUSE DUNN IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POCKET TO HER.


THANK YOU SHIRO FOR OPENING MY EYES
I NOW SEE IT MAKI IS TOWN AND I AM WRONG
I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP SO MUCH

[beeboy]

she had progression on fire as well.
It just shifted to scum reading you directly after which I didn't really like?

I also just think pushing Gamma after the physical reaction thing is outside the realm of things Maki would be willing to do as either alignment.
Just due to where her moral compass lies. (+ the slot died soon after her TR anyway hard to say what she'd do)

[beeboy]

Like her backtrack on Gamma was specifically for that 1 reason and nothing more so ehhhh?

pedit: I wanna lose in style tho.
At least take your scum win while I can say I told you so to everyone else kekkerino

[beeboy]

Let's get to the nitty gritty rn.
I'm not losing this
let's go beebitch I'll get you to tr me using everything in my power (minus ate)

Like what I want to say is.
"Let's go back in time and have me engage you about your reads 5 days ago"
But I can't really do that anymore.

[beeboy]

Sorry my laptop ran out of charge and finding a spot to sit in the library was hard af.

[beeboy]

I ALSO DON'T HAVE EARBUDS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(If ima be here for like 5 hours I am seriously tempted to buy some for 15$ but then i need to find a seat again.)d

[beeboy]

Read change:NONE

Still town.

You should try realizing that her read on me has been explained 0 times throughout the course of this game.
And at no point in this game has she not had your slot as a primary kill target.
And like your kill spec isn't actually valid
and she her reads on teams as a whole have not actually changed throughout the entire duration of the game.

Kagami -> Scum
Fire/Shiro -> Scum
Me/Dan -> Paranoid
Reckmar -> Town
Themselves -> Town

Which still doesn't even include 3 scum anymore reeeeeeeeeeeee

[beeboy]

@Maki

Like I feel like instead of just talking about your progression your just stating that you had it?
And like I am not specifically saying I want you to talk about your thought process throughout the game because bullshitting it isn't exactly hard and I was more hoping you'd just have a response in the following.

And it's like something I've been waiting for cause like I feel like it would just be a natural response.
"You have no progression"
And your brain would go
"Well fuck you beebitch I have been working my ass off"
and you go on to explain your thought process.

or like you just see my concern and address it?

Like I am not stupid enough to think you'd react in such a specific way as town and all other cases make you scum.


But I just think if you wanted to address my concerns about you having a lack of progression and not really at any moment in time actually stating what your progression was you'd like actually just tell me your thoughts throughout the game.
But now that I am asking you to explain it I am worried you won't have trouble bsing me

[beeboy]

Idk I just don't feel like your town here?

[beeboy]

L-2 SHIRO YOU CAN DO IT, YOU CAN FIX YOUR READ.
I BELIEVE IN YOU

[beeboy]

ok ok ok ok ok ok Maki ima try my hardest to let you pocket me.

Why were you paranoid of me this game?
What did Dunn say that made you think I was town?
How has your day been going today?
What did I do this game that you think comes from scum?
Why is my read on you from a town POV when as scum I have to go really deep to lynch you then come out looking good to win?
What did you have for lunch today?
Why haven't you really considered Reckmar to be scum or Fire/Shiro to be town this game? Like why express so much paranoia about me and none anywhere else?
What did I do in that turbo where I tried to piss on my town meta that I also did this game that made your read shift?

[beeboy]

(note you can like 1 sentence answer all those)

[beeboy]

Idk it's hard for me to look at your posts throughout the entire duration of a game decide that it's scum.
Then in an engagement with you decide that your town.

Like maybe i am just hard biasing this but this is hard for me.
And honestly you usually make reading you incredibly easy when your town like I really feel as though this should be a lot easier for me then what it is.
Am I shit at reading you when your scum? Yeah. But like your town game is usually very obvious.

[beeboy]

Pls <3
Think of our first newbie where we bonded and became bffs

[beeboy]

You flaked and I was mafia trying to whiteknight youto get cred ?

I'd be lying if i said I read the game past page 3 kek.

[beeboy]

I mean on that condition yes.
Idk Maki can reply to posts first?
I don't think it will change anything but it's worth a shot.

[beeboy]

I like giving my friends a chance

[beeboy]

Oh god i am sorry I am fucking awful.

[beeboy]

sigh

://///

[beeboy]

#prayinmymakiread
#prayinthedoubetroll

[beeboy]

Btw if Dunnstral is scum I am quoting my tin foil post 100x.

[beeboy]

Actually I still just think Maki is scum memeing me.

[beeboy]

Let's just wait and see.

[beeboy]

inb4 2 scum flips
Kappa Keepo

[beeboy]

inb4 2 scum flips
Kappa Keepo

Called it.

[beeboy]

YOUR WELCOME BTW

[beeboy]

Me - Dan
Reck - Venmar


Both lock town
Anti I think you should just suicide but I can talk about it.

[beeboy]

My fire read at this stage is a given I assume?

[beeboy]

VOTE: FireShiro

[beeboy]

btw i do agree beeboy is town but holy fuck we cannot throw ACTIONDAN into that town list

If Fire doesn't end it Kagami does.
I am likely leaving in the lylo with us 2.

[beeboy]

@Anti hit us up with that sweet double flip :p

[beeboy]

VOTE: Kagami

[beeboy]

Reckmar isn't scum.
I trust that.

If it's Dan sorry for wasting motions but I think it's just you because of Maki's throw away read on you.

[beeboy]

Not losing this to Kagami.

Kagami > Dan

We are doing it in this order.

[beeboy]

It's Kagami, not Dan, not Reck, not Venmar.

[beeboy]

I will literally leave in twilight and treat you can treat all other actions as a scum claim need be.

[beeboy]

I know how Maki interacts with her scum buddies.
It's not how she interacts with Reckmar.

She was scum-scum
She doesn't throw the game by hard defending her buddy she just lets Reckmar die.

[beeboy]

Kags leave now and I leave in twilight.

[beeboy]

You won't actually do it cause I think your the last scum Kappa.
But it's fun to say since if I am wrong on you it's Dan.

[beeboy]

She was scum-scum
She doesn't throw the game by hard defending her buddy she just lets Reckmar die.

does she think she-dunn can carry by themselves tho...?

Let Reckmar died (her defense was a WK kinda it wasn't helping keep the slot alive outside the 1 less vote)
Plead to the fact she called Reckmar town so I lynch my actual scum read of firebringer over her. Either by going "you and dan are town so lynch the rest" or something.

But in reality there was more chances to lynch TvT pairs then what I thought.

That's a loss right there.

[beeboy]

viewtopic.php?p=9871163#p9871163

Closest thing I can find on a glance to support my point. But like just trust me on this? I was the only one with the right Maki read I think I have a decent idea as to how she plays.
Maki doesn't WK a near dead scum buddy while she is the winning SvS pair like I am almost positive of that.

[beeboy]

ANTI JUST LEAVE THE DANCE DONT DO THIS TO ME PLEASE

[beeboy]

ANY OTHER SCUM TEAM JUST KILLS THE IC PAIR EXACTLY

[beeboy]

THE ARGUMENT DAN WIFOMS THE KILL ON CHESSKID DUE TO HIS VAST READ PROWESS ON DAN DOESN'T REALLY WORK CAUSE LIKE

KAGAMI IS ALSO IN THAT FRIEND GROUP AND IS ALSO A THREAT.

[beeboy]

Anti pls <3

[beeboy]

Anti is fine.
I think he is just paranoid and doesn't want to rush it and we all made up our mind.

[beeboy]

ggwp!

[beeboy]

Maki and Dunn threw by pairing up.

Idk seems like a good strat?

Me + Claire then I just get pocketed and lose maybe only other line I see that I think could be better?

[beeboy]

God damn u beeboy

<3333 Masons 4 Ever

[beeboy]

I don’t understand how you thought me and maki were paired beyond her reads on me

Sorry I didn't like how you went back on your read.
I also just had to find a 3rd scum somewhere and just threw you in I guess

Yeah it wasn't the best read of mine.

[beeboy]

you know who sucks

all u fuckers with 2 page PTs

Me and dan were the town MVPs.
TYVM

[beeboy]

I think both Reck and Chesskid played well btw.