Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[Hopkirk]

I actually find that replacement pretty scummy.

How long have you been having this problem.

Like Jingle and Luka.

Insanity in 36/8 on Athena is a bad push. Reads as pushing an obvious newbie for typical newbie behaviour. Response in 52 after Athena responds is on a minor thing and trying to make conflict. Doesn’t read as a natural extension. Still focused on a bad read at the expense of anything useful.
Insanity feels differently towards Keychain than Athena when keychain reads as emptier (like 84). Doesn’t seem to have a problem there.

Korts feels a bit calculated casual. Also at times (76 especially) feels uncaring towards developing reads. Commentary but with stances you could say I guess. Don’t really like the reads either though. Throughout I get a general sense of saying a lot but not doing a lot.

Reckoner in 55- concludes opposite of me. Don’t like the Ari townread in particular.

39 from Ari is odd. Claims Reckoner said everything he wanted to so he townreads him ever more strongly. The only posts he could be referring to are 20/21, but Ari posted in 19. Odd Reckoner could say things Ari intended to when nothing should have changed.

I feel like I should try and look scummy so Jingle metadives me and I can learn something. He seems to have a lot of time there.

Lol apparently I dont know my own meta at all!

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not scum. You have solved nothg at all! Feel free tolynch me if you like, but that really won't get you what you want it to

Meh.

Do I actually syill havs a Reck vote ? Lmfao
UNVOTE:

I like you insanity. Jingle feels like scum pushing a narratinmve tbh.

I dont lime their conclusions. They feel xoncenuevt.

Ari’s tone in 90-93 on the same thing seem very different. Might be meaningful Insanity was the only post in between.

If I had to sort everyone now I'd be leaning something like this. Mostly highly provisional though, and names are intentionally in a random order.
Townier: Luca, Jingle, Ray, Key.
Scummier: Ari, Insanity, Korts, Reckoner.

[Hopkirk]

Oops

VOTE: Ari

I thought we had 10 posts per day, not 1.
Can't really follow the tone that well subbing in. Why do people think activity is like it is?
Who is voting seriously?

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: As far as I’m aware, CoA was new to both the site and geriatric ruleset. If they weren’t then nobody seems to have commented on it. I don’t think it’s unbelievable, or even unlikely that a new player would ask ‘empty’ questions on pages one or two. Someone who played typical games would do that since it would normally be RVS, so it should be expected from someone who hasn’t played geriatric before. I’d understand if that was just something to push CoA, but you’re still treating it as significant, which is what I’m not liking. I agree the questions were pretty empty. I fail to see why that’s more likely to come from scum than town given the context.
Likewise, I could see CoA being confused by heavy terminology/theory use. Complicates understanding of gamestate for them, so it’d be hard to get reads. Consequently, wants to simplify it from their perspective.
Lack of reads follows and is probably the simplest explination- a new player struggled to understand a complex looking game, found it increasingly difficult to continue engaging/develop reads, and subbed out as a result. That could come from town or scum, so I read it as null.

I was strongly leaning towards putting my vote on Aristophanes before Jingle made any points on meta. Jingle’s meta points didn’t really increase my scumread. For one thing, not posting in the dead thread to complain doesn’t mean you’re not annoyed. Anyone would be annoyed there, so not specifically commenting doesn’t mean anything. I might not have got the point Jingle was trying to make fully though.
What I didn’t like was Ari’s reactions.

90- Attempting casual tone, minor ATE.
91- Questioning a significant point Jingle made. Suggests Ari made 90 without fully understanding/reading what Jingle was saying. 90 seems odder tone-wise in that context.
93- Jingle is now a scumread for convenient conclusions. Third reaction to the post, seems weird.
95- Changes topic.
The tone and development from post to post in the series doesn’t flow in a legitimate looking manner.

@Ray: Given you say you’re reviewing my slot, was your lack of commenting on what I’d said intentional (waiting to see more first) or because you didn’t have anything to comment on?

Want to look at Key again after I’ve engaged a bit with my current scumreads.

[Hopkirk]

@Jingle: could you specify the key point on Ari’s meta?

@Insanity: I agree that CoA doesn’t jump out as town. There’s not enough to justify that (without meta I guess). However, a.) CoA doesn’t do anything that jumps out to me as scum either, and b.) I can easily see town CoA not doing things that jump out as town- due to being overwhelmed maybe.

In regards to (scum)reads:
Ari: Not about scumreading my slot.
Korts: Nothing to do with voting my slot.
You: Largely about scumreading the slot since you seemed far too committed for the reasoning you were giving. Also seemed to be at the expense of other stuff. Trying to develop this read (as I said, that was all a first impression).
Reckoner: Don’t really follow his thought process. The read on CoA partially plays into it. Probably my weakest read due to lack of material though.

[Hopkirk]

Understand Jingle's point on Ari/meta now. Want to lynch him even more.

I actually find that replacement pretty scummy.

Since a couple people have mentioned this... I just think CoA did enough scummy shit that the drop out looks more in response to pressure than most replacements I've seen.

Could you respond to my thoughts on that and/or point out the scummy shit.

Do you disagree that Ari is scum, that I should be confident in this read, that Ari as scum would selfhammer at this point, or that Ari as scum would use the vengekill on me at this point?

I have no issue with your case or the strength of your read. I don't really see the argument for a self-hammer, and have no opinion on the vengekill.

My problem is with you acting like it is a given that the town will follow your Ari case, and are already giving warnings about L-1 before a wagon of any kind has developed. I can't decide if that is just hubris, some sort of LAMIST play, or something else.

Given scum have daytalk, I also don't really see why a self-hammer is a danger.

[Hopkirk]

Could you respond to my thoughts on that and/or point out the scummy shit.

Which thoughts, specifically?

132

The parts addressed to Insanity are in regard to CoA,

[Hopkirk]

Daytalk reduced lets them coordinate bussing a lot better. I assumed impact on associations was the impact of self-hammer. Didn’t think about them self-hammering to silence you, though I'm not 100% they would kill you.

@Insanity: Korts is approach to his reads, not the reads themself. You are the only one due to a specific read, and that's because you seem(ed) overly focused on the slot despite that seeming odd.

Regarding Reckless:
Jingle being his top scumread doesn’t really follow based on 20/21. Jingle was a RVS vote when made, and 20 sounded like he didn’t scumread Jingle. Based on 20, not switching to CoA in 21 seemed strange.

From 55

I didn’t get the townread on insanity. I didn’t like her by this time due to the unjustified looking push on CoA. If Insanity was his top townread here then I don’t follow why he’s going after Jingle instead of joining her on CoA. Overall, I got the impression here he was trying to buddy a bit with insanity who had Reckless as town and Jingle as suspicious. Also, this would make Insanity more likely town if Reckless flipped scum since it seems less likely to occur between partners.

The scumread on Jingles seems fairly unjustified. The point about Jingle could be a good reason, but on the other hand I don’t really see why scum Jingle benefits from doing it. Reckoner doesn’t show that either. Mainly given the context that Reckoner makes absolutely no attempt to follow up on it after that post. Right now I’m feeling he’s waiting to see which way the wind blows on Ari.

I didn’t really like Ari by that point and the townread Recknoer gives doesn’t seem good- just that Ari was close to him in reads but he was cautious.
Doesn’t push at the null people there, or much later.

[Hopkirk]

I'll be able to properly catch up and post over the weekend, response to one question I can respond to quickly:

Hopkirk, my lack of response to your posting was due to my choice to wait and see what further contributions you made to the thread before placing a judgment.

'I fluffed a response to.': What do you mean by that?
What about the RayFrost vote?

I have no idea who you scumread right now, and I don't like that in this scenario. As far as I can tell:
You like Jingles/Insanity/Reckoner, somewhat like Korts, haven’t mentioned RayFrost or ASP/Luca,
You also imply in one post that you dislike Keychain/CoA, but without making any attempt to push either of them or develop the read, despite it only coming in 48- and even there it’s agreeing with someone instead of mentioning either of them.

[Hopkirk]

@Mod:

Can you prod ASP, it’s been 100 hours since he made his first and only post.

I'll be able to properly catch up and post over the weekend, response to one question I can respond to quickly:

Hopkirk, my lack of response to your posting was due to my choice to wait and see what further contributions you made to the thread before placing a judgment.

'I fluffed a response to.': What do you mean by that?
What about the RayFrost vote?

I have no idea who you scumread right now, and I don't like that in this scenario. As far as I can tell:
You like Jingles/Insanity/Reckoner, somewhat like Korts, haven’t mentioned RayFrost or ASP/Luca,
You also imply in one post that you dislike Keychain/CoA, but without making any attempt to push either of them or develop the read, despite it only coming in 48- and even there it’s agreeing with someone instead of mentioning either of them.

This should have been quoting Ari's post above, rather than RayFrost. I’m surprised/suspicious Insanity didn’t notice since she was the next post, and should have noticed given her suspicion of my slot.
Also @Insanity: what are your thoughts in response to 156- that I made in part in response to your question? I’m kind of suspicious that you haven’t really mentioned me much since starting to vote Ari.

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: I don’t ‘scumread’ you. That’s too hard a term. I’m suspicious and working on sorting you. I’m most suspicious of Ari/Reckless right now. You seem like a less likely partner for either.

I don’t scumread people for townreading you. Why did you conclude that? If you’re talking about my Reckless comment, that’s about not following why he townread you, not

that

he townread you. Do you agree Reckless hasn’t followed up well on his Jingles read?

‘What's there to notice?’: It seemed a bit weird you didn’t pick up on it. Not bad weird though.
I was mistaken that you didn’t mention me much after voting Ari.

@Keychain: ‘why would scum ever be this honest?’: The most obvious reason is obviously to get this reaction. If he feels like he’s caught scum then he might as well try anything.

[Hopkirk]

'I fluffed a response to.': What do you mean by that?
What about the RayFrost vote?

Your vote is based on tone and an assumption that 39 is weird, but it is not. Sucks.

I believe I already addressed Ray? Sorry the posts were such a mess.

I'll be able to properly catch up and post over the weekend, response to one question I can respond to quickly:

Hopkirk, my lack of response to your posting was due to my choice to wait and see what further contributions you made to the thread before placing a judgment.

'I fluffed a response to.': What do you mean by that?
What about the RayFrost vote?

I have no idea who you scumread right now, and I don't like that in this scenario. As far as I can tell:
You like Jingles/Insanity/Reckoner, somewhat like Korts, haven’t mentioned RayFrost or ASP/Luca,
You also imply in one post that you dislike Keychain/CoA, but without making any attempt to push either of them or develop the read, despite it only coming in 48- and even there it’s agreeing with someone instead of mentioning either of them.

What are your current reads?

[Hopkirk]

I’m still happy with the Ari lynch, but I would like Reckoner’s V/La to end before we end the day.

@Insanity: My dislike of those reads is largely like the first point- how they form the reads. It’s not that they have reads I disagree with, but that they have reads I disagree with that I don’t really buy the thought process for.
What I thought you should have noticed is a pretty minor point. You didn’t comment when I quoted the wrong post, despite it making the post look quite confusing. It seemed slightly odd you didn’t notice if you scumread me substantially- since you’d probably then be reading my posts more closely (and you made the post after it). I can see plenty of town reasons for not mentioning it, but I’d kind of like to know which one it was.

193 from Ari feels like trying to avoid giving associations. His reads still aren’t clear.

TGP is inconsistent in multiple ways as Insanity pointed out, so there’s not much point me repeating it. However, 196 from Ari doesn’t really sound like someone talking to a partner.

[Hopkirk]

@TGP: You’re still saying you think Ari is town and scum at the same time. Do you mean:

a.) You’re not sure about Ari
b.) Ari is scummy and you think a partner(s) is bussing (this seems like the best match for what I think you’re trying to say)
c.) He’s scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch
d.) You want something else before you can sort him
e.) He’s probably town
f.) He’s probably scum
g.) Something else
Withholding other comments until I can understand what you mean.

@TGP: Which of my town games have you read that you think I’m inconsistent with? Are you saying you’ve metadived me?

[Hopkirk]

@TGP: You’re still saying you think Ari is town and scum at the same time. Do you mean:

a.) You’re not sure about Ari
b.) Ari is scummy and you think a partner(s) is bussing (this seems like the best match for what I think you’re trying to say)
c.) He’s scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch
d.) You want something else before you can sort him
e.) He’s probably town
f.) He’s probably scum
g.) Something else
Withholding other comments until I can understand what you mean.

@TGP: Which of my town games have you read that you think I’m inconsistent with? Are you saying you’ve metadived me?

b, c, and d
Yes, I'm saying I've metadived you.

Can you give an indication of this and what you learnt?

@Insanity: Posts aren't meant to be confusing. The misquote was a mistake. Your reason is one of the town/NAI responses I was thinking of so I don't have a problem with it.

Reading Insanity as town now. I like her tone over our interactions, and most of the problems I had have been resolved.

[Hopkirk]

I asked you to elaborate on your reads a week ago. You've given no clear indication of who you read, how you read them, or why. That really doesn't seem like a pro-town response to being wagoned in this situation.

[Hopkirk]

I need to reread TGP/Ray's slot and the game as a whole at some point.

@Reckoner: What do you think about my thoughts on you from yesterday?

Still waiting on TGP to go over which games he's talking about. If he just meant the one we were in together, that's finished now.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry, I meant to get to this today but the whole no deadline thing just makes it seem less urgent. I'll give it time tomorrow. Want to go over the Reckoner thing.

I need to reread TGP/Ray's slot and the game as a whole at some point.

@Reckoner: What do you think about my thoughts on you from yesterday?

Still waiting on TGP to go over which games he's talking about. If he just meant the one we were in together, that's finished now.

Gest Idea
Dragon Hunters
Marked for Death #1

Why did you read me specifically and have you read anyone else? Like I don't really get your mindset in regard to deciding to do the metaread.
Plus what Insanity asked.

[Hopkirk]

Reread Rayfrost and I still like him. TGP has a lot of odd phrasing and perspectives, but I can see that being newb-town. This is partially meta based since I just finished a game where the only scum was his top townread. Want to get more from him on what I’ve asked though since I don’t understand the point he’s trying to make with the meta stuff- or rather why he’s trying to make a point there.

Oh, I see it now

CoA wasn't new enough to use it as an excuse. They had played several games already, so I don't think it's that telling and I think it undermines your argument.
My read is that CoA did a bunch of empty questioning, got pressure/flak for it, then replaced out under pressure.

Only having played several games is still new. Being new makes her easy to push since she’s less likely to defend herself well.

@Keychain: The first point there isn’t complex. I’m saying Reck looks fake since he says he has a strong townread on Insanity but doesn’t act like he does. If he hard townreads her for her stuff on CoA he should be voting CoA with her at that point.
Also, I townread Insanity based on those interactions. It sounds like you’re trying to paint it like I’m nitpicking her then scumreading her for it.

I need to reread Keychain, especially given his position relative to the Ari wagon.

[Hopkirk]

'If he hard townreads her for her stuff on CoA he should be voting CoA with her at that point.'

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: TGP's jump off was bad, but I can see him doing it as town if he thinks he's got something. That's why I want to establish what he thinks he's got and if it looks real.

I like Keychain after rereading the iso. Yesterday I though he'd acting a bit oddly in regards to Ari, but his approach is consistent- not at all what I was thinking.

[Hopkirk]

Luca's slot needing a fourth player technically makes it suspicious.
TGP I still need to sort fully. Unlikely to be with Korts (s/t or t/t).
Reckoner/Korts are my scumreads/leans right now.

[Hopkirk]

Do you actually know what POE means? If it's me by POE then I have to be a scumread already given you have neutral reads.
Plus it's dreadful POE if you eliminate all but one person when there's three scum left.
Saying Ari's reads are gospel because he's dead is stupid.
You haven't answered anyone's questions.
You haven't explained your read on me/why you think I'm scum.

[Hopkirk]

Not hammering since I'm having a hard time seeing scum being so stupid when he's on L1 and his 'top scumread' isn't voting him yet.

[Hopkirk]

TGP, none of that explains your meta angle. You brought up three specific games where Hopkirk's play... was different as town, I guess? You didn't say what about those games was interesting. Please clarify.

Or have you ditched the meta argument in favor of this process of elimination thing? How does a null read eliminate someone from suspicion?

The games he mentioned were actually groupscum, town, and (third party that changes alignment) in a upick that I broke.

Not hammering since I'm having a hard time seeing scum being so stupid when he's on L1 and his 'top scumread' isn't voting him yet.

Does this mean that you are reading TGP as incompetent town?

Currently yes.

[Hopkirk]

Reading back through his iso of the game I played with him (both town) and it looks very different to how I remember it- and very different to this game. He was engaging across the playerbase rather than focusing, and some of his analysis was good.

More likely scum than I was thinking actually.

[Hopkirk]

First off, there's no incentive for me to actually lie about that since (one would assume) TGP would correct me in his next post. I simply mistook the games for more recent ones with similar names.

Oh, I think he was referencing my last three completed games: Dragon Hunters, Beyond

death

and

grand

idea. The names are very similar, and it didn't make sense for him to be referencing the ones he actually did.

Greatest idea was an ongoing game when he said he'd metad me (though finished when he said the name), so I assumed he wasn't referncing that one.
Marked for death I assumed he wasn't mentioning because I had two other town games since then that he hadn't mentioned (one shorter, one longer). I don't see why he'd scroll that far down instead of picking recent ones.

In which case I'd like to know why TGP picked MfD, and why he didn't notice I was confused about which ones they were. Also- since he didn't look at a scumgame- why he didn't look at my scumgame.
Plus all the other questions he'd been asked.

[Hopkirk]

I'm okay with which games you picked (except the lack of looking at a scumgame).
I was confused when I said I was TP/Town/Scum in those games as I thought you'd mentioned different games.

About 4-5 people have asked you the same question: what in those games don't you like/do you think differs to my play this game.

[Hopkirk]

I think Kort's recent attack on me was neutral. What do you mean it was for show?
It's starting to feel like TGP is taking the piss here.

[Hopkirk]

The trusting Ari is worse when you consider Ari made it clear he wasn't invested and hadn't finished a reread.
@Reckless: Why are you only responding to/questioning TGP’s posts now? The first one you asked about there is ten days old. Your vote being on him until you switched it now also feels weird since (unless I missed something which I might have) you didn't mention TGP directly until now.

[Hopkirk]

Did you make that post in response to Jingle's request?

[Hopkirk]

You've passed from the point of 'could be new town' to 'this is intentional'.

If you don't contribute anything else by then I'll hammer tonight.
Apart from anything else, there's no way we can take that into lylo.

[Hopkirk]

That is the best beetlejuice I've ever seen.

[Hopkirk]

I find it hard to belive Blackvoid- with no posts and no investment in the game- was too lazy or unmotivated to post for 8 days then still takes a tone criticizing the mod for starting to replace him.

[Hopkirk]

I'm as suspicious of TGP as I was (seeing as how he hasn't posting again yet), but I'm not willing to hammer anyone until Blackvoid weights in.

[Hopkirk]

Didn't you have a light townread on TGP recently? Did you do the iso of him like you said you were considering?

[Hopkirk]

Oh, I misread 289 as you saying you intending to iso him that rather than saying you had (in 287).
287- the iso- you’re still debating on whether he’s town or scum. I don’t see the point where you move from this to 'willing to hammer'.

[Hopkirk]

TGP needs a prod, and 4 hours until BV does.

[Hopkirk]

I'm also happy with a TGP hammer.
Blackvoid needs to be replaced. 11 days without posting- except for a prod dodge- is a joke.

[Hopkirk]

That wasn't a hammer.

You have one scumread- which you haven't explained. There's three scum. What does that make you think?

[Hopkirk]

Actually how did you think that was a hammer?
5 to lynch, you're not voting, Blackvoid obviously isn't voting, me/Jingle made it clear this page we weren't voting you yet. That's 4 who are obviously not voting you which means not enough for a hammer.
The votecount is on the last page so easy to find. Me/Jingle right above you said we were willing to hammer. I don't get why you'd post 'I think that was a hammer' then not look back to the previous page to check given two people have obvious intent to hammer.

[Hopkirk]

Getting BV to take a stance prehammer was to make him take a stance, not just danger of a nightkill.
Scumflip seems likely though.

[Hopkirk]

@Reckoner: Can you go through your read on Korts?

[Hopkirk]

Playing around a bit with coloured spreadsheets, and I could (physically) see Korts/Void/Key.

[Hopkirk]

I need to do a full reread, but right now I'm struggling to see any scumteams without Korts. Currently thinking Korts/Reckoner/BV.

I am going to do a reread and/or look at ISOs over the weekend.

Playing around a bit with coloured spreadsheets, and I could (physically) see Korts/Void/Key.

This was posted before the mod posted the flip. Did you no longer see TheGoldenParadox as scum?

That team was based on that thing. I'm leaning slightly more toward Reckoner that Key.
TGP was about 50-50 whether he flipped scum or not. Made sense to lynch either way since he's got good odds of being scum, but if he's town I'd expect us to always lose the lylo.
The difficulty of the TGP lynch, and to some extent the Ari one, somewhat implicated BV.

[Hopkirk]

@Everyone:

Both end of day votecounts are wrong. It was brought up earlier that Jingle was one of the people voting Ari (and ray/TGP wasn’t), but the VCs were not fixed. The order is slightly wrong for the second one. Don’t try and do VCA from the current VCs

@Reckoner: why is there ‘obvious scum’ within ‘{me, Korts, Hopkirk, insanity}.’ If you’re looking at the first wagon, Jingle was as much in support of it as anyone, and BV-scum would explain how it took so long.

Also @Reckoner: you

didn’t

hammer both wagons. Jingle hammered TGP.

Haven’t gone through Reckoner’s day one analysis yet.

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: Korts/Void/Key is one of the scumteams I’m most considering at the moment. Reckoner/Key (/maybe Jingle) is the bit I’m most flippy about.
@Jingle: Based on townreads/flipped town/myself, Kort’s posts consistently break up long town interactions, Key’s timings support Korts, and Luca’s posting follows a consistent pattern relative to others. It’s not evidence so much as something to help me visualise the game/look for patterns.
@Reckoner: Wanted to give a vague overview of my reads when entering, but I like to interact with people to form reads. I don’t think Jingle was ever not on board with the Ari wagon considering he never tried to argue against it (which he could have if he’d wanted since several people bought his meta).

Rereading Jingle first.

[Hopkirk]

Reread Reck first since Jingle is too long for me to want to reread right now. Liked it, and seemed less likely with Korts than I was thinking. Probably town.

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: If TGP was in the game right now then he’d already be voting someone. Given his behaviour yesterday as town, we just wouldn’t be able to win a lylo with him in it. Clearly not going to actually do/be receptive to analysis if she can’t even answer a question in a week. His behaviour was scummy, but I’ve played with him before- which is why I was cautious about actually lynching him since he seemed like he could still just be a hard VI. In the end I thought he was plausible scum since he seemed more VI than I’d seen him before, but it was part policy that I wanted him lynched towards the end. Although I could have lynched him at pretty much any point for a week. Legitimately wanted to hear properly from him before I could fully sort him, so my scumread of him even towards the end was partially policy I suppose.

Keychain reread- (any use of she/her not referring to Key here is a mistake as I initially got Key’s gender wrong and had to find/replace. This might mistakenly confuse/change meanings in parts I missed).

Keychain has Korts as scummy early on (49). Interactions with Korts in 84 by answering Kort’s question about CoA, but doesn’t ask Kort’s anything. Reads Korts as null/wants to sort at the end of 84. I really don’t get the sense from this post that she was legitimately trying to sort Korts. Earlier scumminess she said Korts had also disappears here without any clear intent to follow up. Her interactions with Jingle between here and the next section feel a bit empty since I don’t get the impression Keychain is developing her reads during it.

Townreads Korts after reading in 131. Does not appear to have reread Luca as well and doesn’t look like she intends to so only rereading Korts here feels like it’s intentional/partner. Makes a couple of points for Korts town- general points, but scumpoints on Korts are given specifics. Pointing out specific points here gives the impression it was easier for him to find evidence for scum Korts, yet read Korts as town- which makes me think partners. Similarly in 145 Insanity questions Keychain and she can quote more things to support the scumreasons on Korts. Yet she’s still pushing CoA at this point when it sounds like she has reason to be pushing Korts. Instead, she’s not really trying to interact with Korts.

I still don’t like her Ari town stuff in 180. Saying ‘why would scum ever be this honest’ doesn’t strike me as something town says. Obviously if Ari had been scum there she’d be saying it since she’d been on L1 for a while, and would be willing to try anything not to get lynched. Despite being against it here, she said in 168 she agreed with part of the case- though this part was one of, if not the, most significant parts of the case on Ari. Further, despite ‘not being a fan of this lynch’ Key isn’t doing anything to actually oppose the lynch. Her posting at this point is entirely devoid of any attempts to push someone over than Ari/form a counterwagon. I get a strong sense here that Key is just saying she doesn’t like the Ari wagon while actually being happy it’s going through- or rather her actions in regard to it going through don’t resemble her words against it. Backing off from me I could definitely see as an excuse/not legitimate if he really townread Ari.

Next interactions with Korts is in 198, just a quick question about her read on Ari. Doesn’t seem to be interested in developing the Korts read from earlier. 210- Reading the end here as ‘if someone doesn’t hammer soon I’m flipping this read and hammering’. Don’t see much development on reads over day two. Supports the TGP lynch D2 after being off the wagon D1 is consistent with Scumchain. The specific post quoted isn’t the worst of TGP’s evasion.

I’m now thinking Korts/Keychain/BV (BV being kind of POEish)

[Hopkirk]

@Lord Gurgi

: D1 votecount is missing Keychain’s vote completely, and Reckoner hammered D2 rather than insanity.

@Hopkirk, 346.

@Hopkirk, how exactly did you come to the conclusion that the "difficulty" of the wagon/reason it took so long implicates me? Can you also expand on your Korts/Reckoner theory? Those two are people I have as probably not scum together.

I agree Korts/Reckoner doesn't seem that likely- I said I moved Reckoner up to town based on this in 356 I think.

Difficulty of the wagon is because there was no real attempts at counterwagons/both seemed consensus, but they took forever to actually happen. Therefore, It seems unlikely that either lynch had all three scum on it (though D2 is possible). This is also another reason I'm suspicious of Key. His approach to both wagons seems intentionally different, and D2 was easier to the same degree it felt different.

D1: off the wagon BV/Keychain. D2 off the wagon: You and me.

[Hopkirk]

Why is Luca(BV)/Korts not likely?
Why is Key/Hop likely?

[Hopkirk]

Just to motivate myself to catchup, if I've not posted in-depth thoughts and contributions by tomorrow night (~36 hours), I won't argue with the mod just straightup replacing me out.

95 hours since this.
Are you planning to catch up?

[Hopkirk]

The giant 1v1 didn't really lead to anything substantive/permenant, and an early argument between scum that doesn't even lead to a major wagon isn't uncommon. I don't see what's leading to that conclusion.

TGP, what was the basis for your Hopkirk suspicion yesterday? Where do you stand on him today? Has Ari's townflip changed your mind about Hopkirk?

Hi. I'll be catching up over the next few days. As a heads up, I'm usually online in the mornings and after midnight.

How is your catchup going, BlackVoid? I am interested to see this slot get back in the game.

Korts isn't overly agressive towards BV, and he was willing to vote TGP before BV caught up, so he clearly didn't have the BV slot as hard scum.

[Hopkirk]

Why is Luca(BV)/Korts not likely?
Why is Key/Hop likely?

To the first, check the giant 1v1 that dominated the early game (before my Ari push, so pages 1-3).

To the second, I didn't say it is likely, just that I don't think it's unlikely enough to completely discount. If you think I should reevaluate there, please tell me why.

Key/Hopkirk is in 3 of your 5 possible scumteams which makes it sound like you think it's likely.
I don't see how my trajectory today makes sense for Key/Hop/Korts given they're my two top scumreads.

Specifically on Key's, she's also been light on my slot all game. She was on me at the end of D1 while avoiding the Ari wagon after being on me earlier. She comes back and makes weird attacks on me in 243/274 that make it look like he's planning to vote me, then she settles for TGP instead with weak justification. She then came into today and it looks like she's intenting to continue her attack on my slot. She's been after my slot all game, except when going for the easy lynch. Her read on me doesn't progress naturally, it's been a consistent scumread without real basis. I don't see her voting that way on a partner.

[Hopkirk]

Korts/Keychain from Kort’s iso.

Korts mentions Keychain a couple of times early game, but not substantively. Doesn’t really follow up on anything. Interactions are not with Keychain, they’re just about Keychain without trying to directly engage. Differs quite a lot to other interactions he has.

209 is Korts responding to Keychain’s request he outline his scumcase on Ari. Keychain does not follow up once Korts outlines the case. Neither seem to care. The interaction there seems fake. Seems like Key pushing for the Ari wagon by getting a partner to justify it since he can’t. Aligns with Keychain not making any effort to push against the Ari wagon despite allegedly townreading Ari.

277 is the next and last time Korts mentions Key. They’re working together on the TGP lynch this time.

At no point in the game does Korts really express a read on Keychain. He doesn’t try to interact with him or read him, and doesn’t seem to care. Given his multiple comments on even BV/TGP, it seems unlikely he’d be happy not to have any thoughts on or interactions with Keychain.

[Hopkirk]

BV needs a prod again.

@Anyone who disagreed with my assessment of CoA due to him having played a couple of games before. Why didn't you look at those games?

Preference today is strongly for Key.

[Hopkirk]

Lots of new players take a while to stop doing the things CoA was attacked for. I'd expect someone who cares about her alignment to compare it to her other games.

[Hopkirk]

Someone who's played in like three games isn't going to be trying to play towards their town meta.
The scumreads were for a new player have a typical new player playstyle.
The refutation of that was 'she isn't new' without looking to see whether she seemed new.

[Hopkirk]

Of potential note: Luca replaced out saying he intended to take a hiatus. He didn't sub out of all games and is in the queue.
Though I townlean on him after skimming some of his other games.

Key/Korts is still scum. Really need to look at Jingle interactions sometime.

Someone who's played in like three games isn't going to be trying to play towards their town meta.
The scumreads were for a new player have a typical new player playstyle.
The refutation of that was 'she isn't new' without looking to see whether she seemed new.

I don't know why you are focusing so much on CultofAthena's degree of newbieness.

Even if CultofAthena's newer player status explains her fluffiness, it doesn't change the fact that she has been liking people for completely non alignment-indicative things (18, 29), copying or rephrasing other people's questions (in 29 and 30) and doesn't do what she says she will do. She says that she is using her questioning style to form reads (37) but we never see her do any of that.

Because literally all of those things are explained by her being a newbie. Liking things for NAI reason- take a look at any player's third/fourth game and show me that doens't happen. Weak logic and not forming reads well is NAI for a newbie.

[Hopkirk]

Luca isn't in any ongoing games.
It's not accusing him of tactical replacement, it's more a meta read of his habits regarding subbing out and considering which games he'd keep. This game seems closer to the low activity scumgame where he left, but it's not very useful since there's no towngames there.

I went through Keychain in 385 and briefly over interactions from Korts' side in 367. Haven't gotten around to Korts fully yet. Want to try and go through you next, so I won't cover that fully for a few days yet. Want to look at interactions with you/them especially.

The 'Korts is only scum when Hopkirk is' logic requires you to be very certain about the scumteams you've crossed out. It seems odd to discount distancing that doesn't lead anywhere. I don't see how you can be that things like Korts/Reck or Korts/Luca weren't theater. I could see Luca attacking his partner then being able to get legitimately into the game afterwards.

[Hopkirk]

Reread Jingle. Solid town.

For clarity, are you saying that you disagree with my stance or that you think my stance is unreasonable to take?

Similarly, to Key why is Insanity/CoA a reasonable team?

I think that calling Korts/Luca definitely not a scumteam means you're too confident scum won't even try and bus/distance early game.

[Hopkirk]

Although considering teams only actually leaves me with two plausible options: Korts/Key/BV and Reck/Key/BV. The second one could definitely be right here. I need to look at Reckoner/Korts isos fully.

[Hopkirk]

Actually @Jingle: Nevermind Korts/BV. I'm leaning strongly towards Reckoner/BV/Keychain.

[Hopkirk]

Maybe a scumteam of Hopkirk, Korts and either Jingle or Keychain?

Someone who's played in like three games isn't going to be trying to play towards their town meta.
The scumreads were for a new player have a typical new player playstyle.
The refutation of that was 'she isn't new' without looking to see whether she seemed new.

I don't know why you are focusing so much on CultofAthena's degree of newbieness.

Even if CultofAthena's newer player status explains her fluffiness, it doesn't change the fact that she has been liking people for completely non alignment-indicative things (18, 29), copying or rephrasing other people's questions (in 29 and 30) and doesn't do what she says she will do. She says that she is using her questioning style to form reads (37) but we never see her do any of that.

Because literally all of those things are explained by her being a newbie. Liking things for NAI reason- take a look at any player's third/fourth game and show me that doens't happen. Weak logic and not forming reads

well

at all

is NAI for a newbie.

You make it sound like newer players can never be scummy.

What do you think would be alignment-indicative for a newer player then?

I'm not saying new players can't be scum, I'm saying new players using bad logic and not understanding theory isn't AI. Other stuff is, like motivation, interactions, consistency, how they're approaching the game etc.

Oh shit, I knew I forgot something. I don't have time for a proper post, but I want to share some thoughts while I'm here.

I think I'm forming an OMGUS read on Hopkirk as I read his analysis - the connections he's involving me in are all rubbing me the wrong way, and I'm having some trouble viewing it objectively. I will try to lose the ego when I do a proper reread, and see if my suspicion holds up. It's certainly worth noting that even though I seem to be his top scum pick, he doesn't have much of a case against me.

Jingle and insanity seem pro-town. I will have to look into Keychain. Reck is null. I believe Luca/BV/<insertplayerhere> is probably scum, but I basically only have Luca's early game behavior and BV's prod dodging to go on, which is not very substantial.

Since everyone seems to be picking entire scumteams, my guess right now would be Luca/Hopkirk/[Keychain/Reck].

I kind of had you as default scum due to overlooking the Reck/Key/BV possibility- which now seems more likely.
I'd been putting off the isos. Now that I've actually read them, my thoughts have changed.

[Hopkirk]

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on Keychain Reckoner.

Only 6 hours until the next BV prod/replacement is due.

[Hopkirk]

Why RBK: Rereading you and I was comfortable to eliminate you/Insanity. Assuming Reck/Korts aren't scum together leaves two scumteams. BV/Key are in every likely scumteam. Therefore, changing from Korts to Reck makes that the scumteam.

Why Reckoner>Korts

Korts side:
- Interactions with Luca could come from either alignment, but are more likely to come from town given Luca is scum.
- I like his vote on me in 275. Shows he’s actually looking at things rather than going for the mislynch purely for the mislynch (like Keychain).
- Reads seem reasonable consistent, if not fully developed on some slots.
- Interactions with BV/Keychain are better than Reckoner’s.
- A lot of his stuff is pretty nullish, but it’s not scummy-null like I thought.

Reckoner side:
- Dislike 55 as I have all game. Keychain/Korts interactions are especially bad given he puts them as null/light scum with no real follow up. Also still dislike the way he makes the Jingles scumread. The CoA scumread/Insanity townread without pushing it feels like he’s waiting/opportunistic for whatever wagon happens. Fits with his general sitting on the sidelines. This is reinforced by him not trying to interact with me or to push me.
- Flip to Ari is badly justified. Doesn’t consider Ari relative to Jingle- who he was voting just beforehand.
- Reads feel like they’re strategic/flexible rather than consistent. Eg, votes Korts in 281 for a weak attack on me- despite Reckoner seeming to have a scumread on me there. I don’t understand where his Jingle read went either.
- Claims in 289 he didn’t realize Ray had been replaced by TGP when he voted Ray in 233. Weird given he says in 287 that Ray didn’t do a lot, and Reck seems to have scumreads. Not a major point, but seems inconsistent/like the above. Don’t like the way he interacted with TGP in this exchange, as I mentioned at the time.
- 338/9- Says scum within 4 (Korts/Insanity/him/me)- very suspicious Key/BV are not in this pile. Comes out with BV/Key in the ‘could be scum but lets lynch other people first’ position. 339 hasn’t had the promised follow up after 6 days which fits with the other two scum who aren’t posting substance and waiting to see what happens.

I kind of had Reckoner as scum at the day start then forgot about him for some reason when I agreed Korts/Reckoner were unlikely to be together. I hadn’t actually reisod Korts or Reckoner properly until now. I think I was getting some of Korts/Reckoner mixed up with one another actually.

[Hopkirk]

@Lord Gurgi: 'The definition of a 24 hour period must be provided by the moderator.' Is in the rules. I'm coming close to my daily limit, so could you define what counts as a 24hour period? Is it reset at a certain time each day (if so when), or based on posts we make?

[Hopkirk]

I was on page two of a game trying to form reads on what amounted to "RVS bullshit". Your predecessor, around that same time, was pushing a RayFrost scumread/Insanity townread without pushing it, there, too. So you gonna call your own slot scummy?

'What about other person' isn't an excuse for you doing the same behaviour- and doing it to a greater extent. You gave your reads and didn't follow up on them or develop them. That's scummy. CoA didn't follow up because they subbed out (and had 1/100th of your experience). You didn't progress substantially through the other half of day one or day two.
Side point: I haven't and don't intend to fully read CoA.

Yup. You're right. I was bored of the game and wanted some kind of progress to happen. I thought a flip would help me re-engage with the game since I had been out of it for so long. I'd also note that Jingle was encouraging me to hammer at the end when I was dancing around whether or not I wanted to actually do it, yet you conveniently leave that out here. Neat.

I'm saying:
a.) Why would you listen to Jingle given he was allegedly a top scumread for you at the time.
b.) Why didn't you follow up on the Jingle scumread afterwards given he'd encouraged you to vote Ari who flipped town. Your Jingle scumread should have increased, but there's no signs of it developing.

Yes, you realize scum can have weak attacks on other scum, right? Me thinking Korts had a weak attack on you doesn't contradict me thinking you're scum. Fuck, it would even make MORE sense if you two were scum together and he half-assed an attack on you as a way to tentatively distance from you, but it had no conviction behind it. I don't believe you really believe this point at all and think if you were town it would take you two fucking seconds to reach within yourself to understand some Level Two Logic here.

You should try to interpret the point in context before accusing me of being an idiot. The point I made wasn't 'scum never bus', it was that your reads look flexible and opportunistic. If I was saying 'Korts wouldn't make a bad case on his partner' I wouldn't be using the example as evidence for the point 'Reckoner's reads look flexible.''

In the example, you voted Korts. Your prior posts suggested you scumread me at the same time. You'd been sitting on a Hopkirk scumread without developing it. This reflected the 'sitting on the sidelines and not developing reads' pattern that I addressed in point one. You voted Korts rather than developing the Hopkirk read, or over reads. The Korts vote also didn't lead you to reevaluate or iso Korts. Therefore, it feels opportunistic, and not what you'd do if your scumreads were legitimate. Likewise, your Jingle scumread dropping without explination follows the same pattern.


Addressing second half in another post since my computer has an issue where it randomly stops responding.

[Hopkirk]

Why is it weird that my progression is:
- Vote Ray in 233
- Realize Ray was replaced in 238
- Analyze his replacement's play in 287 while commenting on the fact that Ray didn't do anything in the game
- I then say in 289 that my 233 vote was when I didn't realize they were the same person

I literally don't understand the point you're trying to make. What is weird about me saying "Ray didn't do a whole lot, and I'm not loving TGP's play since then either"?

The stage I’m taking issue with in the progression is the first one: ‘Vote Ray in 233’.

This is because you said in 238 you didn’t know TGP was Ray, and that Ray didn’t do much in 287.

Therefore, I have no idea why you voted Ray in 233 if he didn’t do a lot given you had other scumreads who had done scummy stuff. Your goal/vote doesn’t make sense there. Especially given you had Jingle as scum the previous day- but didn’t push him after the wagon he’d pushed failed. That really didn’t make sense.

I literally listed the people who were on both wagons both days as a starting point. Piss off with this.

You did do that. You also said there was scum in them. Statistically, it's probable there is scum in a group on 4 when 3/7 people are scum. I agree you did this.

What you didn't do was say why this was true, or why it was relevant. You didn't look at BV who hadn't been on either wagon, you didn't look at how the wagons were pushed by those 4 players or compare how they approached each wagon, you didn't explain why scum would be more likely to be on both wagons... you only said they were on both wagons, and there was scum within them.

You also implied those four were more likely to be scum since you decided to ISO me and Korts first based on it.

Oh wow how convenient that you had me a scum totes the whole time you guys but now that I've said I thought you are scum with Jingle, you suddenly remember it!!

I'll quote posts in my next post.

There's very little in my gut stopping me from voting Hopkirk right now.

I'd prefer to lynch Key/BV since you/Korts isn't 100% for me, whereas they are.

[Hopkirk]

Responding to

Oh wow how convenient that you had me a scum totes the whole time you guys but now that I've said I thought you are scum with Jingle, you suddenly remember it!!

showing I did have Reckoner as a scumlean- both at the start of D3, and all game. Not convenient. Consistent.

120 and onwards d1: had Reckoner as leaning scum based on first read. D1.

261: Korts/Reckoner as scumleans. D2.

334: Start of today. Express scumread on you. D3.

356: This is where the problem happened. I reread your iso

specifically

looking for Korts interactions. I was mistakenly only looking for scumteams that contained Korts (literally just ctrl/f Korts). I’d overlooked other possibilities. I concluded you were town since you/Korts seemed unlikely. You moved to scum when I realized Korts isn’t confirmed scum since there’s scumteams that don’t contain Korts. I’d been treating Korts as confirmed scum for some reason up to this point.

359: Showing the above- ‘Korts/Reckoner doesn’t seem likely. I moved reckoner to town based on this.’

390: I properly wrote out and considered teams at this point and became enlightened.

[Hopkirk]

I refreshed the page. Haven't read your latest post except for the last point yet. It's a joke.

You can't seriously be saying I think you're 'not a scumread'.
I've said several times I'm very sure it's Reck/Key/BV, with a small chance of Korts/Key/BV.

You just responded to a post where I said it's Key/BV and either you/Korts- but far far far more likely you. Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say 'you/Korts isn't 100% for me, whereas they are.' is 'not a scumread'? Given the context? Seriously? I won't read the rest of your post until you respond to this because it sounds like you're trolling me here.

I made a case on you since I was asked to by a townread. I responded because your responses were bad.

[Hopkirk]

Won't be looking at the rest of what Reckoner said then I suppose.

@Korts: The main cause of my read switching wasn't so much 'being called out on bad logic' so much as 'actually reread the game after procrastinating a lot'. Of course, I bought Jingle's points on you/Luca more on the reread compared to on the skim. I also agree my reasons for thinking you were scum initially were bad.

[Hopkirk]

@Blackvoid: If you haven’t been able to catch up on 17 pages in 3 weeks you should sub out.

@Jingles: Why do you have Reckoner as town?

@Insanity (from here on in): You’re saying my read progression on Korts doesn’t make sense. Why is that more likely to come from scum (who have daytalk)? Scum are more likely to be consistent than town in this scenario, especially given a lack of incentive not to be. This is especially true for me. My last completed town game shows me radically change my reads after a reread and getting all 3 scum in 4 picks after previously townreading 2 of them.

I like the vote because it means he actually put the

effort in to verify

what I was saying. If he was just going for the easy mislynch I really don’t see him doing that. Scum-Keychain is going for the easy mislynch at the same time.

I said I reread Reckoner and liked him as town because

as I’ve already said

I was working from the point of ‘korts is scum’ and used ctrl/f: korts in Reckoners’ ISO and didn’t think they looked scum together.

How are there no notable reasons. I did a

COMPLETE REREAD OF FOUR ISOS AND COMPLETE REEVALUATION FROM SCRATCH

. The intial Korts read had

NOTHING FROM HIS ISO BACKING IT

and you’re acting like I said I had a guilty on him at day start.

[Hopkirk]

I am equally happy with any of Reckoner/Key/BV being lynched here.
Unless Jingle is scum, they will all flip scum.

[Hopkirk]

Reckoner hasn't even tried to case me here.
Only reason I can see for people being suspicious of me right now is that I reread the game in lylo and reevaluated. If anyone currently thinks that's a scumtell then reevaluate your play postgame- even if you reevaluate and town wins.

[Hopkirk]

I don't really see why scum-Hopkirk starts the day by attacking Korts then switches without explaining why. It's less suspicious to either pick one way at the start. The only value is in creating wifom, which doesn't outweigh the cost in bringing suspicion. It's objectively not the best way of making you think Hopkirk/Korts is unlikely. I'd expect scum-Korts to not accept scum-Hop's flip so easily. Scum have daytalk so plans would only look crazy if intended- and there's no incentive to do so since 'looking crazy' is less effective/draws attention that we wouldn't want.

My preference is to lynch BV/Key since Korts is still 10% scum in place of Reckoner.

What were the main things you thought about Korts that made you suspect him at the start of today?

A kind of bad gut feeling formed due to vague memories, along with not having written out a list of teams or reread the game. I didn't have a good reason.
I'm the kind of person who'll post a stream of consciousness.

Though process
-Don't need to reread Insanity.
-Reread Jingle. Solid town. Scum is in (Korts/Reckoner/BV/Key)
-Reckoner/Korts is least likely. Confirms key/BV.
-Key/Korts is likely. BV/Korts is not very likely (bought more of what Jingles said on a reread/proper read).
-BV/Reck is likely. Key/Reck is likely.
-Reckoner's iso is bad alone. Korts' iso is bad alone.
-BV/Key/Reck

I've already gone through specifics in previous posts a few times to explain those things. Could you look at those then ask me about gaps rather than just having me repeat it.

[Hopkirk]

Over two weeks and BV either hasn't caught up, or is faking not having caught up. This seriously isn't acceptable.
Reckoner being happy to put a vote down on aynone other than BV is just insane.

[Hopkirk]

I'm fine with a key lynch.
The problem is that you aren't happy to follow with a BV lynch.
Despite having Luca/BV as scum all game :~

'Hopkirk- Probably not scum with Ray, Key, Insanity.' what changed this btw in regards to Hopkirk/Key?

[Hopkirk]

Insanity:

There's a pretty clear divide between when I'd fully reread and when I hadn't reread.
I already told you why I flipped on Korts. Explained in detail. Don't bother asking the same question if you can't be bothered explaining how it's different to the last one OR why you didn't like the last answer. Say you didn't like it, don't pretend I didn't answer. Alternatively, read stuff before voting in daytalk lylo.

Looking for Keychain in Korts' iso was a matter of ctrl f, as I've said.


Putting forward thoughts at the start of day then reevaluating.
Not posting until you were finished reevaluating.

If you're seriously saying the first is a 'scummy thought process' I don't know what to tell you. Being open about your thought process is good. I have no incentive to do so as scum.

Complaining about 'defensiveness' in response to an attack is simply stupid. Do you even understand what defensiveness actually means? It's a very legitimate response to being attacked- especially when people are attacking me for things someone else did that objectively aren't scummy...

[Hopkirk]

I'm disgusted that BV has been tactically lurking and abusing the lack of mod intervention. It's abusing the game rules and It's insane that he hasn't been replaced.

How can anyone even see the slightest bit of townieness in someone whose spent 3 entire weeks avoiding posting anything- then complains that he's an easy push because he hasn't posted stuff.

VOTE: Blackvoid

[Hopkirk]

8 DAYS
70 hours

(4 minutes)

48.5 hours

(2 hours, 10 minutes, 1 hour)

85 hours
82 hours
45 hours

Space between Blackvoid's posts.
Also the post as 82 hours is explicitly lying.

[Hopkirk]

Even after the 3 prod mark there were two three day periods without posting. It's just absurd.

His claims about how far he's read are inconsistent throughout.

[Hopkirk]

That last one is 57 hours actually.

[Hopkirk]

Your posting does suggest you aren't town. I don't see why town would ever consider staying in the game in your position. Not having posted 11 days into lylo is akin to gamethrowing given your townread Reck put a vote down already and scum can quickhammer very easily here.

I've asked for your replacement several times.

UNVOTE: BV

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Keychain

Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner (team without BV) is more likely than Korts/BV/Reckoner (team without BV) or BV/Keychain/Jingles (team without Reckoner).

[Hopkirk]

Actually why do I have such a hard townread on Insanity. Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner looks pretty plausible here.

[Hopkirk]

Oh right, that was Jingle.

[Hopkirk]

I'm all for lynching Key here. He's scum from basically every perspective.
Any flip we get after the kill is fine.

What's stopping you from voting key now?

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: Either you're scum, or you're town who isn't willing to be convinced. There's no point arguing with you any more in either of those scenarios given waiting to see if there's a quickhammer proves it one way or the other.

[Hopkirk]

@Key: You should vote me in order to help narrow down scumteams.

[Hopkirk]

Although until BV is replaced a scumteam with him on it couldn't QT, but it's still worthwhile.

[Hopkirk]

Well I don't see Jingle/Insanity/Key as a top pick so gg I guess.

[Hopkirk]

@Titus: There's not much point catching up right now. Either a.) Scum are going to quickhammer, or b.) You're scum and you can quickhammer.

[Hopkirk]

Unless Jingle is scum which I guess is possible.

[Hopkirk]

Unless the scumteam is me/insanity/Keychain then Hopkirk is confscum, mechanically speaking.

I endorse any and all hammers, and I'll see you all in second LYLO.

This is only true if scum have been able to coordinate a quickhammer, and want to take the not needed risk of a quickhammer on Key.
If BV/Titus is scum then the scumteam couldn't QH yet.
Insanity/Jingle/any x is technically possible here- though i expect a hammer to come from the last two scum sometime.
That's why we should leave it several days to be sure. Either it's Key/Insanity/Jingles, or we're going to lose now anyway.

@Scum who want to quickhammer: I definitely won't be awake from 3-6GMT any day, and I won't be able to post at all until Friday evening.

[Hopkirk]

Seriously though, 'scum could quickhammer in theory' doesn't always mean they've been able to in practice.

[Hopkirk]

Mobile. Logging in since I'd want to know.
Not scum. Game is over.

[Hopkirk]

Looks like either insanity or jingles for third then. Not that the third person needed to be worked out.

[Hopkirk]

We should have lynched Keychain and Blackvoid like I wanted. Especially Blackvoid and especially Key.
Third person was always dodgy, but I didn't realize I had Insanity as obvtown for no reason whatsoever until she voted me, so that was really good scumplay.

[Hopkirk]

@Insanity: What are your thoughts on the way everyone seemed to townread you (especially me/Jingle)?

I feel like the amount of time it took for a BV replacement hurt us since it really grew the apathy in lylo- to the point Jingle was willing to vote in lylo without a slot having fully contributed.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like catching up as much as you could- slowly but doing something- would have looked a lot more pro-town than a big catch up. The way you approached it looked manufactured or scum who didn't want to rock the boat. A big catch up with in-depth reads would just sound like you'd spent ages making it and were more interested in how it looked than it letting us know what you were thinking.

[Hopkirk]

Lynches made so much more sense with scum BV too, but idk how much the Geriatric ruleset was responsible for altering tempo- might have just given it that effect to some extent.

Apathy wasn't so much the standard geriatric ruleset as it was the lack of deadlines. That doesn't seem like the best idea to include.

By the end I'd basically given up on trying to change people's minds any more since it had been so long and people posted so infrequently. Jingle seemed the same as I've said on voting before BV was really doing enough. Being able to spread it out over a longer period sounds like potentially a good idea, but in practice it just seems to make it hard to actually engage directly with people/follow a conversation well.

[Hopkirk]

Request acknowledged. I will probably meta you naturally at some point during the game, given the lack of nightkills, but if nothing else and assuming you mean this remind me in the postgame and I'll do a thorough analysis for you.

I'd be interested in your thoughts if this offer is still open (though I know you're busy).