Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[xRECKONERx]

Confirm but VLA thru the holidays

[xRECKONERx]

Oh! This actually started! I thought a confirmation stage would be happening or something!

Hi insanity! Nice to see you back around these parts!
Korts, I may have the Jolly Green Giant on speed dial and he does not take so kindly to your wishes of removing all greens! Don't make me call him!

As for a vote,
VOTE: xRECKONERx
I don't think I've ever played with you but have always wanted to!

You're about to be sorely disappointed, friend.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Jingle

Chainsaw defense is scumbuddy defending scumbuddy from a townie vote. Thanks for the free scum claim.

[xRECKONERx]

Ooh I see things got started.

Jingle, your response looks like your attack on Korts is more to defend yourself from an RVS joke that went wrong than it is because you think he's scum. Also you seem to be making the assumption that Reck is town based on Korts being scum. Early for that.

That said, Reck's 13 also looked pretty tongue in cheek to me so Korts's follow on was unexpected and felt out of place.


also hi Jingle, nice to see you again and hi Ari!

couple things i want to pick apart, so like:

- Jingle openly states that his thing was a "bait", not an RVS joke. Why do you believe it to be the opposite?
- Why is it early to say "I don't see two scum jumping on the same vote early"? When is it not too early?
- The extra add-on feels like you buttering up Jingle to be scum while also banking on a push on Korts. Hard not to feel like an early hedging of bets.

[xRECKONERx]

I like Jingle's posting so far – he's getting the game moving.

VOTE: Keychain
Why no vote?

This is scumtacular too.
- Emptyreading someone for something non-alignment indicative.
- Voting someone for low hanging fruit.

[xRECKONERx]

He's a Majiffy school of mafia player, not a mastina one.

The rest of this paragraph basically amounts to "I scumread Korts because everyone else has meta reasons not to give a fuck" and that really doesn't sit right with me, BECAUSE I don't think Jingle went through all that calculus before pointing his finger at Korts. This seems like a way to retroactively justify it--not that retroactively applying insight to a gut thing is a scumtell, but this is really theatrical.

Ray's 41 reads to me like someone pretending to have reads after skimming the game rather than someone's truly heartfelt and fire-tested opinions about the game. Again, not really alignment indicative in a vacuum, and I have no other context to go off of, so it's null.

Ari's thought so far are pretty close to my own, which makes me want to gut townread him. However, my single greatest weakness as a player is that I allow people to slip into my blind spot too easily when they agree with me, so just a personal note to myself to keep that in mind when I'm inevitably iso'ing this later.

Responses to Keychain:

- Fair enough re: the "joke" vs "bait" topic. I don't have enough steam to run on that for much longer, was just curious, and your explanation seems reasonable.
- I still don't get why saying "I don't see two scum jumping on the same vote early" is any different from "If Korts is scum, Reck is town, because they both jumped on the same vote early". Ostensibly, you agree with the logic there--why is it an "extra extrapolation" to say I'm town? It follows the logic from his perspective. Do you think no associative tells should be made until someone is flipped?
- There's a thin line between "having multiple scumreads" and just "throwing shade on everyone who is visible". For me, it seemed more like you were looking at the major spat at the time and just going "well they both could be scum" which felt weird to me.

insanity is a strong town read for me at this point. I feel like she's adding a good level of thought and critical insight into behaviors. Her point about Korts only responding to things about him is intriguing. I tend to play selfishly as well (where I only check in and skim for my name) so I might be biased against Korts doing it here. But there is something extra about how Korts justifies it and makes it seem so nonchalant that has my interest piqued.

So, I come out of that with two town reads (Ari/insanity), a handful of people sliding into the scum side of the column (Jingle/Keychain/CultOfAthena), and a various levels of null (Korts/Ray/Luca).

I do feel like, however, that my vote is probably fine staying on Jingle for the moment.

[xRECKONERx]

Reck immediately votes Jingle, and spells out the exact logic of the scum claim, somewhat excessively. (I now find this kind of overzealous and a bit scummy from Reck.)

FYI, I was doing one of those "explain the joke and take it seriously" bits. I believe Jingle understood what chainsaw meant. I hadn't placed an RVS vote and had only made a confirmation post so this was my attempt at doing so.

[xRECKONERx]

My play is very theatrical, which is a null tell from me. There's a far better reason to be uncomfortable with my play, which I'll talk about in a couple days when the fallout from Luca and Korts settles. Mostly because it would interrupt my eating of popcorn, but also because it would taint a specific tool being used to further a tricky read.

You'll have to excuse me for not being satisfied having my gut twinge described away with self meta.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm here and hope to have a better shot at reading tomorrow. We're currently in crunch time today/tomorrow at work.

[xRECKONERx]

I actually find that replacement pretty scummy.

[xRECKONERx]

I actually find that replacement pretty scummy.

Since a couple people have mentioned this... I just think CoA did enough scummy shit that the drop out looks more in response to pressure than most replacements I've seen.

[xRECKONERx]

Could you respond to my thoughts on that and/or point out the scummy shit.

Which thoughts, specifically?

[xRECKONERx]

Sorry about this, but I'm

V/LA for Survivormeet until the 18th

.

[xRECKONERx]

TheGoldenParadox feels like he's hedging his bets on Ari

You said this as I thought it.

Also hi, I'm back, and exhausted. I plan to stick around and I read the last couple pages. If anyone has anything specific they want me to address, can you point it out? Otherwise I would be fine with Ari now, I think. Also, Insanity continues to be my top townread

[xRECKONERx]

I really want to hammer that.

[xRECKONERx]

Groovy, let's get some progress in this game.

VOTE: Ari

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: RayFrost

Fight me please.

[xRECKONERx]

Then the VC wasn't updated.

Can you quote your thoughts then

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, I see it now

CoA wasn't new enough to use it as an excuse. They had played several games already, so I don't think it's that telling and I think it undermines your argument.
My read is that CoA did a bunch of empty questioning, got pressure/flak for it, then replaced out under pressure.

[xRECKONERx]

@insanity: I would say not much has changed, tbh.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know how I should "act like I have a strong townread on insanity".

[xRECKONERx]

I had other reads at that point iirc

[xRECKONERx]

uh what

hiplop isn't in this game???

[xRECKONERx]

Luca's slot needing a fourth player technically makes it suspicious.
TGP I still need to sort fully. Unlikely to be with Korts (s/t or t/t).
Reckoner/Korts are my scumreads/leans right now.

I could see me being blinded by Korts because I just really wanted to play with him but I don't forsee me making a move on that until we have at least another flip.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Korts

Been feelin' like I'm being blinded by how much I love Korts and I think his recent attack on Hopkirk was weak. And he knew it was weak. It was for show, not for real.

[xRECKONERx]

I say this in every game. I have a weak spot/blind spot and I'm actively trying to make sure I don't let people in there as easily

[xRECKONERx]

I'm ok with Korts, pretty townie posting from what I can see. Reck looks fine too.

Can I ask what makes Korts & I "townie posting"?

I conclude that Ari looks too much like town right now for a direct lynch, but I want to hear from him before concluding. I still think based on his posts that there's a very reasonable chance he's scum, but I'm not sold on the wagon.

This is way too fence-sitty for me but I have to imagine scum wouldn't risk taking such a wishy-washy stance? I mean this is BLATANT. I know this runs into the TSTBS fallacy but come on.

I'm going to trust Ari that reck and insanity are town because he became an IC.

You already had a town read on me before this.
Also, why does a dead player's opinion mean they're right? Town are wrong all the time.
This seems lazy, but it could be lazy-town or lazy-scum.

I mean, like, Ray didn't do a whole hell of a lot. I sorta want TGP to answer my first question considering the context of the game at the time.

[xRECKONERx]

@Reckless: Why are you only responding to/questioning TGP’s posts now? The first one you asked about there is ten days old. Your vote being on him until you switched it now also feels weird since (unless I missed something which I might have) you didn't mention TGP directly until now.

My vote was on RayFrost, and I didn't realize those two had swapped. And so I left it there.

I've also been neglecting this game a lot due to other commitments taking up a huge portion of my time, but I had the urge to iso someone today and I felt like rather than give a half-assed skimmed response, I'd actually look at TGP's iso and make an informed post

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah

[xRECKONERx]

I'm here. Sorry for lack of posting. I don't know why I wasn't prodded before replacement. The mod seems aware of how prods work given he posted it in the OP. Will be catching up today since I have free time.

Not sure what to think about your immediate appearance after a replacement notice was posted. It suggests that you hadn't just forgotten about the existence of this game, but were deliberately flying under the radar, waiting for a prod to just barely fulfill the minimum activity requirement.

Looking forward to your contributions.

Hmmmmmm not sure how I feel about this

Like, I've done the same thing where I just sit on my ass and don't post in the thread bc lazy or not motivated and then when I'm about to be replaced I finally do something

[xRECKONERx]

I've flirted with hammering TGP but yeah, would like to wait and see what BlackVoid thinks first.

Might just do a full-on reread but I think I'd like a second flip before I put time and energy into that.

[xRECKONERx]

Yes literally last page

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: TGP

Fine.

[xRECKONERx]

I would also support replacement.

[xRECKONERx]

I feel like...TGP knew it wasn't a hammer since Hopkirk had JUST said that.

[xRECKONERx]

well balls.

We're in 4-3 now.

I just realized it's 3:6 and not 7:2. Which, I don't know why I thought that. I saw micro and thought "7:2" while forgetting the white flag mechanic.

I don't even know how to approach this. BlackVoid NEEDS to post.

[xRECKONERx]

Ari Lynch

Aristophanes

[5 Posts] (4) -

RayFrost

, Hopkirk, insanity018, Korts, xRECKONERx

Hopkirk

[9 Posts] (1) -

Keychain

Korts

[10 Posts] (1) -

BlackVoid

RayFrost

[10 Posts] (1) -

Jingle

Jingle

[5 Posts] (0) -

None

BlackVoid

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

xRECKONERx

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

Keychain

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(1) -

Aristophanes

TGP Lynch

TheGoldenParadox

[10 Posts] (5) - Korts, Jingle, Keychain, insanity018, xRECKONERx
Hopkirk [10 Posts] (1) -

TheGoldenParadox

Korts [10 Posts] (0) - None
Jingle [10 Posts] (0) - None
BlackVoid [10 Posts] (0) - None
xRECKONERx [10 Posts] (0) - None
Keychain [9 Posts] (0) - None
insanity018 [10 Posts] (0) - None

None (2) - Hopkirk, BlackVoid

There's obvious scum within {me, Korts, Hopkirk, insanity}.

I think I'm going to be the scum push for today for hammering both wagons.
Out of those four, I'm most confident in Korts flipping scum. I'm going to ISO him first and try to find that.
Following that, I'll be doing an ISO of Hopkirk. Also may do a larger VCA for my own sanity. Note that I don't use VCA to say "this person is scum due to voting patterns", I use it as a way to summarize the game's narrative and help me build ISOs.

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler: D1 VCA for my records

Korts

[8 Posts] (2) -

Jingle, LB/ASP/BV

CoA/Hopk

[10 Posts] (2) -

RF/TGP

, insanity018

xRECKONERx

[10 Posts] (1) -

Aristophanes

Jingle

[9 Posts] (1) -

,

xRECKONERx

Keychain

[10 Posts] (1) -

CoA/Hopk

RF/TGP

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

Aristophanes

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

LB/ASP/BV

[7 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(2) -

Keychain, Korts

---

CoA/Hopk

[10 Posts] (3) -

RF/TGP

, insanity018, Keychain

Korts

[10 Posts] (1) -

LB/ASP/BV

xRECKONERx

[10 Posts] (1) -

Aristophanes

Jingle

[9 Posts] (1) -

xRECKONERx

Keychain

[10 Posts] (1) -

CoA/Hopk

RF/TGP

[10 Posts] (1) -

Jingle

LB/ASP/BV

[10 Posts] (1) -

Korts

Aristophanes

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[8 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(0) -

None

---

CoA/Hopk

[8 Posts] (2) -

insanity018, Keychain

Aristophanes

[9 Posts] (2) -

RF/TGP

, CoA/Hopk

Korts

[8 Posts] (1) -

LB/ASP/BV

Jingle

[9 Posts] (1) -

xRECKONERx

RF/TGP

[8 Posts] (1) -

Jingle

LB/ASP/BV

[10 Posts] (1) -

Korts

xRECKONERx

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

Keychain

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[7 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(1) -

Aristophanes

---

Aristophanes

[8 Posts] (4) -

RF/TGP

, CoA/Hopk, insanity018, Korts

CoA/Hopk

[8 Posts] (1) -

Keychain

Korts

[10 Posts] (1) -

LB/ASP/BV

Jingle

[10 Posts] (1) -

xRECKONERx

RF/TGP

[10 Posts] (1) -

Jingle

LB/ASP/BV

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

xRECKONERx

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

Keychain

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(1) -

Aristophanes

---

Aristophanes

[5 Posts] (4) -

RF/TGP

, CoA/Hopk, insanity018, Korts,

xRECKONERx

CoA/Hopk

[9 Posts] (1) -

Keychain

Korts

[10 Posts] (1) -

LB/ASP/BV

RF/TGP

[10 Posts] (1) -

Jingle

Jingle

[5 Posts] (0) -

None

LB/ASP/BV

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

xRECKONERx

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

Keychain

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(1) -

Aristophanes

I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO RESPOND TO THIS. I WANT PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN ANALYSIS AND LET ME SEE WHERE THEIR HEAD IS AT.

We know that the RF/TGP slot was town. Therefore, the wagon on Ari was started in earnest. I am going to look at two possible scenarios:
- Scum helped fuel the town-driven mislynch [Hopkirk, insanity, Korts]
- Scum sat in the shadows and watched town cannibalize themselves [Keychain, BV, Jingle]

There are three scum within this pile. Let's break it down.

If scum helped RayFrost drive the Ari wagon..

In #24, insanity has a townlean on Aristophanes (no reasons given).
In #29, CoA/Hopkirk defend calling Jingle town (CoA notes, here, that they only said they

liked

Jingle, not that they called him town.) <---

scum association b/t Jingle/Hop

Also in #29, CoA/Hopkirk blankly call out insanity for townreading Arisophanes, but do not question insanity's townread on me. Not sure what to make of this, other than them not wanting to go against me since I had already called CoA "scumtacular".
In #35, insanity says CoA is the most scummy player in the game. (Does not vote CoA.)
Also in #35, insanity explains the townread on Ari. Seems fine.
In #36, insanity votes CoA and makes a case on the slot. (Townpoints for this IMO. Said CoA was scummy, then went back and made a case after rereading.)
In #40, Jingle walls at CoA but in the end, the entire post doesn't do anything. It's a lot of fence sitting and no real commitment to reads.
In #41, RayFrost points out that LB (now Blackvoid) keeps answering for Jingle, and Jingle keeps answering for CoA. <---

scum connection b/t BV/Jingle and/or Jingle/CoA

In #51, CoA calls Ray's 41 LAMIST by kinda dismissing it.
In #52, insanity is still hammering hard on CoA.
In #55, I note to myself that Ari could be in my blind spot for townreading me early. (Guess I was wrong.) I'm still scumreading Jingle & Ray (oops on #2, I can't be wrong on all three, can I?)
In #58, Jingle points out that me/Korts aren't scum together. (Possible Jingle-Korts scumpair? Easy to setup a lynch on me if needed, or a way to hedge bets against a scumbuddy.)
In #59, Korts posts his notes and points out that Luca (BV) supports Jingle's "Reck/Korts aren't scum together" analysis, while also wanting to push me/Korts as a scumpair. More points for scum-BV?
(General note: Korts has basically invoked my name a few times in his notes without ever interacting with me. What the fuck? His notes on me are just quick blurbs. Is he trying to stay under my radar? I don't THINK that Korts fears me as town, if he's scum, so Idk what to make of this.)
In #70, CoA reminds Korts to respond to her posts. (Slight townread for this?)
In #78: Jingle casts shade at Keychain, but ultimately ignores it to vote Ray. Instead, begs Keychain to "get her sea legs" and "wow me". (Leaving the door open to bus if necessary and setting up appropriate towncred?) <---

scum connection between Jingle/Keychain

In #89, Jingle uses meta to cast Aristophanes as scum. This comes just after also casting Keychain as scum. Does not vote Ari, instead leaves vote on Ray. Also, perhaps most weird to me, Jingle gets sorta overdefensive and hyperconcentrated on the vengekill aspect of the game? I wasn't even taking that into account yet, it seems like LAMIST but in reality I think scum would be more focused on the vengekill mechanic and thus more likely to mention it in this context.
In #96, Jingle now begs Ray to come back and talk to him because he's lonely. Weird interaction for someone you supposedly are voting and are sure is scum? So sure, in fact, that you have ignored two other (arguably stronger) scumreads to leave your vote on him.
In #115, Korts starts to back off of his Jingle read but leaves it as fence-sitting. Wants Jingle to condense/simplify? (Pings me as scum looking for a reason to wagon jump. Can actually see this convo in the scum PT going "Hey, I wanna join you and back down, gonna throw this out there.")
In #118, I note that the Hopkirk/CoA replacement seems scummy.
In #119, RayFrost swings the momentum onto Ari with a case.
#120: I feel like Hopkirk's introduction is scummy. Sets up for Ari scumread by disagreeing with me. Overly defensive to my #118 where I say the replacement is scummy. Tries to dismiss it. Ends up listing me/Korts/insanity/ari as scum, votes Ari. This is really opportunistic, esp since his Ari read is given faux-context where it looks like he's part of a reads list but the other reads on that list are barely mentioned compared to the Ari stuff. ALSO: weird moment of saying "oh ya these names are in a random order! on purpose!" like he's trying to preemptively defend himself (interesting that he still lists Ari first).
#121: Hopkirk votes Ari in his second post despite listing his scumreads all together.
#129: Jingle's overblown fear of Ari selfhammering seems completely unfounded and is just fearmongering.
#136: What the fuck, insanity just emptyvotes Ari? Ari was a townread... then she called him out for still having an RVS vote on me, says he's waffling, and BLAM we flip a townread into the strongest scumread out of nowhere. Wowee zowee. Maybe insanity was in my blindspot?
#141: Jingle defends the replace out and dismisses my read of the Hopkirk replacement as scummy. <---

chainsaw defense? potential Jingle/Hopkirk pairing

#144: Hopkirk goes "oh yeah the meta on Ari is good I want to lynch him more now" then moves on. Definitely adding fuel to the wagon.
#161: Korts now joins the Ari wagon saying "I'm on board" but noting he's not comfortable with Jingle's attitude.
#194: TGP comes in and doesn't like the Ari wagon, so he votes Hopkirk instead (points out Key+Hop is the scumteam).
#205/220: Insanity says it feels like TGP is hedging bets on Ari. I agree. Interesting now that those two have flipped town...
#222: And Jingle is suddenly on board with the Ari wagon? Big flip. Why now?
#225: Jingle encourages me to hammer.

Coming out of D1, Jingle is my top scumread. I believe his shade-throwing while ignoring his "top scumreads" to vote Ray all day, then the last second push onto Ari, is disingenuous. I think his most likely partner right now is Hopkirk. Unsure on the third option: could be Keychain or BV, with an outside chance of being Korts. Don't wanna speculate too much on that, though, because finding two is what's most important, and if we get a scumflip tons of stuff will be seen in a new light.

I'll move on to D2.

[xRECKONERx]

@Mod: Requesting replacement on BlackVoid.

He has posted 3 times since Jan 20th, which was his first post.
That means in 12 days he posted 3 times. That's more than the 48 hours necessary for each post.
Rules state after 3 prods someone will be replaced.

[xRECKONERx]

@Mod: really need you to fix those VCs please.

[xRECKONERx]

See my analysis above. You had an early townread on Ari too and ended up hammering. Did you think Ari was scum by the end of the day?

Quick response: no, I just wanted to move the game along and had been so removed from it, I thought progress would help me.

Heading to bed, will have more thoughts tomorrow.

[xRECKONERx]

BV needs a prod again.

@Anyone who disagreed with my assessment of CoA due to him having played a couple of games before. Why didn't you look at those games?

Preference today is strongly for Key.

Why would I?

[xRECKONERx]

I really need to get my head back into this.

[xRECKONERx]

Part of me hopes we mislynch so i can just stop paying attention lel

[xRECKONERx]

Tempted to just vote BlackVoid here. There's fuckin' nothing there. If scum take the win over someone being a lurksack, so be it.

That, or I'm still very much on board with Jingle.

insanity is just like so fucking town but I can't help but talk myself in circles like "you're bad at this game, you fuck, if you think she's town she's probably scum"

[xRECKONERx]

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on Keychain Reckoner.

I think that, if she's scum, she sat off the wagon D1 and mostly let town eat themselves. I think she makes the most sense being connected to Jingle, given how Jingle sat back and threw shade at her D1 but never engaged her. Plus, she buttered up Jingle pretty hard early on.

I don't HATE anything Keychain has done, particularly. The only things that possibly tinge my gut are:
1. She jumped on CoA on the back of insanity's early post against CoA, rather than pushing or prodding herself.
2. Some of her jovial interactions (like in 85 with Jingle, or randomly wishing me happy birthday) come off as really fake and insincere to me, but maybe I'm just cynical.
3. Defends Aristophanes against push from Jingle. This could be an easy white knight, and given that I think scum kinda let town eat themselves, it could fit.
4. 90% of Keychain's posts are calling out townreads instead of scumhunting. To me, this is usually a huge red flag. The only "scumhunting" done is putting TGP at L-1 saying "not big on TGP's posts". Nothing concrete.

Please don't. There's enough to read around him and this is white flag. You don't HAVE to sort everyone. I'd love to hear more about the scumread on me though.

I think I've kinda explained it over time, but to put it succinctly and in one easy to read location:
You were tainted from the moment the joke RVS shit happened and it caused me to look at you under a microscope.
I don't like that you jump through hoops in post 40 to call Korts scum, and I don't really believe that you did the mental calculus necessary to arrive at an organic conclusion. To me, it felt like you going into things looking to end up at a Korts-scum result to fit your narrative.
I don't like that you tried to explain away my reservations about post 40 with self-meta.
I don't like that CoA implied you were town, then backpedaled hard when called out on it. I just don't believe CoA is scum who did calculus to try and paint a townie in a bad light based on hypothetical associative tells later on.
I don't like that you kept answering questions FOR CoA, who you already had icky connections with.
I don't like that you defended the CoA replace-out and dismissed my read on the replace out as scummy.

Simply put, you/Hopkirk just make way too much sense as buddies for me to really ignore it.

Reckoner side:
- Dislike 55 as I have all game. Keychain/Korts interactions are especially bad given he puts them as null/light scum with no real follow up. Also still dislike the way he makes the Jingles scumread. The CoA scumread/Insanity townread without pushing it feels like he’s waiting/opportunistic for whatever wagon happens. Fits with his general sitting on the sidelines. This is reinforced by him not trying to interact with me or to push me.

I was on page two of a game trying to form reads on what amounted to "RVS bullshit". Your predecessor, around that same time, was pushing a RayFrost scumread/Insanity townread without pushing it, there, too. So you gonna call your own slot scummy?

- Flip to Ari is badly justified. Doesn’t consider Ari relative to Jingle- who he was voting just beforehand.

Yup. You're right. I was bored of the game and wanted some kind of progress to happen. I thought a flip would help me re-engage with the game since I had been out of it for so long. I'd also note that Jingle was encouraging me to hammer at the end when I was dancing around whether or not I wanted to actually do it, yet you conveniently leave that out here. Neat.

- Reads feel like they’re strategic/flexible rather than consistent. Eg, votes Korts in 281 for a weak attack on me- despite Reckoner seeming to have a scumread on me there. I don’t understand where his Jingle read went either.

Yes, you realize scum can have weak attacks on other scum, right? Me thinking Korts had a weak attack on you doesn't contradict me thinking you're scum. Fuck, it would even make MORE sense if you two were scum together and he half-assed an attack on you as a way to tentatively distance from you, but it had no conviction behind it. I don't believe you really believe this point at all and think if you were town it would take you two fucking seconds to reach within yourself to understand some Level Two Logic here.

- Claims in 289 he didn’t realize Ray had been replaced by TGP when he voted Ray in 233. Weird given he says in 287 that Ray didn’t do a lot, and Reck seems to have scumreads. Not a major point, but seems inconsistent/like the above. Don’t like the way he interacted with TGP in this exchange, as I mentioned at the time.

Why is it weird that my progression is:
- Vote Ray in 233
- Realize Ray was replaced in 238
- Analyze his replacement's play in 287 while commenting on the fact that Ray didn't do anything in the game
- I then say in 289 that my 233 vote was when I didn't realize they were the same person

I literally don't understand the point you're trying to make. What is weird about me saying "Ray didn't do a whole lot, and I'm not loving TGP's play since then either"?

- 338/9- Says scum within 4 (Korts/Insanity/him/me)- very suspicious Key/BV are not in this pile. Comes out with BV/Key in the ‘could be scum but lets lynch other people first’ position. 339 hasn’t had the promised follow up after 6 days which fits with the other two scum who aren’t posting substance and waiting to see what happens.

I literally listed the people who were on both wagons both days as a starting point. Piss off with this.

I kind of had Reckoner as scum at the day start then forgot about him for some reason when I agreed Korts/Reckoner were unlikely to be together. I hadn’t actually reisod Korts or Reckoner properly until now. I think I was getting some of Korts/Reckoner mixed up with one another actually.

Oh wow how convenient that you had me a scum totes the whole time you guys but now that I've said I thought you are scum with Jingle, you suddenly remember it!!


There's very little in my gut stopping me from voting Hopkirk right now.
Speak now, rest of game, or forever hold your peace.

[xRECKONERx]

'What about other person' isn't an excuse for you doing the same behaviour- and doing it to a greater extent. You gave your reads and didn't follow up on them or develop them. That's scummy. CoA didn't follow up because they subbed out (and had 1/100th of your experience). You didn't progress substantially through the other half of day one or day two.
Side point: I haven't and don't intend to fully read CoA.

It's just hollow coming from the slot that did the same shit.
It's why I hate replacements, I can't hold your feet to the fire over the scummy shit your predecessor did.
I did give reads. On page two. And then I posted more content and my reads evolved over time, aside from the period in which I was

announced to be V/LA with no internet access

.

This is a horrible push.

I'm saying:
a.) Why would you listen to Jingle given he was allegedly a top scumread for you at the time.
b.) Why didn't you follow up on the Jingle scumread afterwards given he'd encouraged you to vote Ari who flipped town. Your Jingle scumread should have increased, but there's no signs of it developing.

a) Because it gave me reactions either way.
b) Because I realized I had just been looking back on Jingle as scum due to locking in on him early game and after hammering town I didn't feel particularly confident in my reads or abilities and wanted to see what else happened first. I'm a very skittish player. If I'm right, I will be a dick about it and shout it from the rooftops forever. If I'm wrong, though, I tuck tail and curl into the fetal position and retreat into myself.

You should try to interpret the point in context before accusing me of being an idiot. The point I made wasn't 'scum never bus', it was that your reads look flexible and opportunistic. If I was saying 'Korts wouldn't make a bad case on his partner' I wouldn't be using the example as evidence for the point 'Reckoner's reads look flexible.''

In the example, you voted Korts. Your prior posts suggested you scumread me at the same time. You'd been sitting on a Hopkirk scumread without developing it. This reflected the 'sitting on the sidelines and not developing reads' pattern that I addressed in point one. You voted Korts rather than developing the Hopkirk read, or over reads. The Korts vote also didn't lead you to reevaluate or iso Korts. Therefore, it feels opportunistic, and not what you'd do if your scumreads were legitimate. Likewise, your Jingle scumread dropping without explination follows the same pattern.

Korts did something that pinged my gut as scummy. I commented on it. It's as simple as that.
Waxing poetic like you're doing over a one-off moment is really baffling to me.
Someone doing something that is scummy in a vacuum does not equate to me hard reading them as scum.

The stage I’m taking issue with in the progression is the first one: ‘Vote Ray in 233’.

This is because you said in 238 you didn’t know TGP was Ray, and that Ray didn’t do much in 287.

Therefore, I have no idea why you voted Ray in 233 if he didn’t do a lot given you had other scumreads who had done scummy stuff. Your goal/vote doesn’t make sense there. Especially given you had Jingle as scum the previous day- but didn’t push him after the wagon he’d pushed failed. That really didn’t make sense.

Because I made this post during D1:

Ray's 41 reads to me like someone pretending to have reads after skimming the game rather than someone's truly heartfelt and fire-tested opinions about the game. Again, not really alignment indicative in a vacuum, and I have no other context to go off of, so it's null.

And then when D2 started I realized I still had zero perspective on Ray so I voted for him.

You did do that. You also said there was scum in them. Statistically, it's probable there is scum in a group on 4 when 3/7 people are scum. I agree you did this.

What you didn't do was say why this was true, or why it was relevant. You didn't look at BV who hadn't been on either wagon, you didn't look at how the wagons were pushed by those 4 players or compare how they approached each wagon, you didn't explain why scum would be more likely to be on both wagons... you only said they were on both wagons, and there was scum within them.

You also implied those four were more likely to be scum since you decided to ISO me and Korts first based on it.

I looked at the players who had been on both wagons because I believed it was the strongest starting point to consider. I have a very hard time believing those wagons happened without scum's influence on them to drive them, so for me, digging into that was the best place to start. It was fucking implied that I was investigating the wagons and how they happened

considering my entire follow up post was written about the wagons and how they happened

. This is willfully obtuse.

I'd prefer to lynch Key/BV since you/Korts isn't 100% for me, whereas they are.

SO just to be clear: you want to lynch Key/BV, who you're very sure are scum, but you're wasting time having a pissing match with me, who isn't even a scumread, in LyLo?
Am I right on that?

[xRECKONERx]

Responding to

Oh wow how convenient that you had me a scum totes the whole time you guys but now that I've said I thought you are scum with Jingle, you suddenly remember it!!

showing I did have Reckoner as a scumlean- both at the start of D3, and all game. Not convenient. Consistent.

120 and onwards d1: had Reckoner as leaning scum based on first read. D1.

261: Korts/Reckoner as scumleans. D2.

334: Start of today. Express scumread on you. D3.

356: This is where the problem happened. I reread your iso

specifically

looking for Korts interactions. I was mistakenly only looking for scumteams that contained Korts (literally just ctrl/f Korts). I’d overlooked other possibilities. I concluded you were town since you/Korts seemed unlikely. You moved to scum when I realized Korts isn’t confirmed scum since there’s scumteams that don’t contain Korts. I’d been treating Korts as confirmed scum for some reason up to this point.

359: Showing the above- ‘Korts/Reckoner doesn’t seem likely. I moved reckoner to town based on this.’

390: I properly wrote out and considered teams at this point and became enlightened.

Really about to pull the trigger on just voting Hopkirk, but I want the fucking mod to deal with this BlackVoid situation first.

[xRECKONERx]

Jingle, I'd much rather that vote sit on Hopkirk before people check in.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't need to case you, I just need to get you lynched. And I've already given points as to why you're scum -- mostly due to your weak push on me out of nowhere (and I convinced myself the person that picks it up and runs with that is scum before you even did it), partially due to your predecessor's play, and partially due to interactions.

[xRECKONERx]

I said I wasn't putting a vote down until the bv situation is resolved

Really disappointed in the mod here

[xRECKONERx]

@mod: blackvoid is due for yet another prod.

[xRECKONERx]

Your posting does suggest you aren't town. I don't see why town would ever consider staying in the game in your position. Not having posted 11 days into lylo is akin to gamethrowing given your townread Reck put a vote down already and scum can quickhammer very easily here.

I've asked for your replacement several times.

UNVOTE: BV

Uh, I haven't put a vote down. Why are you lying to BV?

[xRECKONERx]

Are you wanting to see something in particular from the slot or is this just not wanting to move on with the game until we've got a full playerlist?

I would like something actually readable from that slot before I throw the game to the wind hoping that slot is irrelevant to game outcome.

I do agree with BV that the mod should've probably taken action on that slot a while ago, but it doesn't matter anymore.

I just know I'm town, so I have a 50/50 shot at voting scum in a vacuum, and I want to make sure I can improve my chances.

[xRECKONERx]

That's exactly why BV is scum

[xRECKONERx]

hmm. key hasn't voted hopkirk yet. odd.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not actually sure what to make of it.

I'm actually looking forward to Titus catching up if hopefully she can not spam. But hey this is geriatric so she literally can't!

[xRECKONERx]

Titus this is a spamless game so you might wanna use your posts more wisely.

In any case, it's LYLO? So Key/Hop are basically in a 1v1 right now

[xRECKONERx]

it takes 4 to lynch so how can there be a quickhammer

[xRECKONERx]

look @ me not hammering oooooo

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not liking this resistance to me catching up although I am a not read person.

It's 20 pages. RTFT

[xRECKONERx]

welp

[xRECKONERx]

gg?

[xRECKONERx]

k so it was the lurker slot + keychain + ???

insanity if you were scum well fucking played

[xRECKONERx]

If so really unhappy about the way the BV slot was handled this game

[xRECKONERx]

It's really unfortunate because the BV slot, had it been replaced on time, would've changed the endgame. Ugh. Oh well, bad game all around. No offense to the scumteam at all. It just feels like this game has an asterisk.