Anything uPick? (Endgame)

[northsidegal]

Why even announce it right now if you are vla. You are giving them the chance to f-you.

The specifics of my restriction are such that I'm not afraid of Alisae posting a lot. I'm not going to give the details though,

just know that I have to say a shitload per 24 hours

, far more than I'd prefer even being the verbose player I am.

@mastina: exactly how much would alisae post in one day? Like is it a judgement call or what?

Well since I have fullclaimed mason I might as well share this. I've met my quota for the day and strictly speaking don't need to post right now, so I'll probably shut up. But basically, I am forced to use the Juvenile Players Ruleset (AKA Hyperactive Posters but I like my name better):

a minimum of ten posts a day

.

HOWEVER, posts in my mason PT count towards the ten. I didn't want to hardclaim that the limit was ten in-thread in case I had a day where I split it something like 7-3 and people wondered why I didn't violate the restriction, but since I've claimed mason, there's no reason to hide this anymore, so.

Ten posts per day minimum.

Posts in the mason PT count towards that

, so I can get away with feasibly as low as one post in this thread, so long as I have the required nine in the masonry.

？

[northsidegal]

1) The game will be non-bastard (barring the non-randomness in generation) and

role madness

.

If it weren't for the fact that Fire's trolling is NAI, I'd be scumreading him.

And yes, I

counterclaim

him.

And yes, I'll be shooting him tonight unless the chief has better ideas.

？

[northsidegal]

Northsidegal have I played with you before?

i don't think so.

Nice try, but RC doesn't do double roles. I played enough of his games to know.

alright – why counterclaim so early anyways, or at all for that matter if you could just shoot him?

[northsidegal]

in case you don't get that I'm calling rolefishing 150% on that post

is early game rolefishing something scum actually do? it's an accusation i see a lot but never something that actually seems to be correct.

[northsidegal]

i doubt that ginngie's post restriction was faked but it seems slightly convenient that it got lifted so early. mastina's reasons for voting in 264 seem contrived.

mastina, why are you townreading most of the active players?

[northsidegal]

No thoughts on mastina's claim. If she can prove her lovederizer she's probably town cuz otherwise that'd be anti-scum-wincon. If she can't, mastina's definitely capable of making that up.

what's to say she couldn't make her scumbuddies loved? granted, i'm not sure how balanced that would be.

Was gonna say I wanted more content from NSG but glad to see she's town. Either that or has significantly improved her scumgame lately.

i'd say my play so far has been entirely consistent with my scumgame. i would expect anyone familiar with my meta to scumread me so far, actually. what're you basing your comparison on?

[northsidegal]

i doubt that ginngie's post restriction was faked but

it seems slightly convenient that it got lifted so early.

ur actually a wolf this time feelsbadman

do you disagree? at that point in the game a good portion of the playerlist was still yet to have much of an impact on the thread, if at all. mastina specifically making the note of scum being in the inactives and then choosing ginngie along with ginngie's pr being lifted upon being voted seems oddly specific to me.

OFG have you ever played with NSG before?

@NSG

: mastina and Ginngie are pretty good friends, I think. Seems natural. The massive number of townreads is concerning but also happened the last time I played with her IIRC (admittedly years ago. Do you think scum lovederizer rolecop would ever be a thing?

there's nothing to suggest mastina is telling the truth about anything, yet.

[northsidegal]

i'd say my play so far has been entirely consistent with my scumgame. i would expect anyone familiar with my meta to scumread me so far, actually. what're you basing your comparison on?

The scumgame you linked me in sitechat the other day. You're nowhere near as awkward.

Initial "?" posts made me think "Ok NSG is aware her scumgame is awkward and is trying to avoid that". But there were a couple posts you made that actually made me somewhat rethink things and be like "huh, wow, weirdly good thinking" and that's what I expect from town-NSG more than anything.

Lemme know if you want quotes.

well, at the time my only non-？ posts in the game were these:

Spoiler:

Northsidegal have I played with you before?

i don't think so.

Nice try, but RC doesn't do double roles. I played enough of his games to know.

alright – why counterclaim so early anyways, or at all for that matter if you could just shoot him?

in case you don't get that I'm calling rolefishing 150% on that post

is early game rolefishing something scum actually do? it's an accusation i see a lot but never something that actually seems to be correct.

which, if anything, look a lot more like these first two posts, from my scumgame:

Spoiler:

1) First of all, how dare you, 2) I have to agree that your random vote post really comes across as being the kind of goofy-friendly that you can really only arrive at by calculated intent, and 3) from a bin of at least one player, it is possible to choose exactly one player to vote for from each bin and nobody can prove otherwise and I am obviously not going to miss a chance to exercise the axiom of choice on Gödel.

Don't these words look very opportunistic?

Its very "I'm gonna join the wagon because I really have no idea why". This really goes on the radar

do you think zitto is scum trying to get a quicklynch on godel? hopping on rvs wagons is usually a towntell to me.

Well, if someone claims BP that'd make them conftown

Wait a minute... when did this power role speculation start and why is this happening? Ya'll need to stop

zitto, this is exactly why i voted you. it seemed at that point that we weren't doing the bulletproof strategy and scarlet's thought process was clear enough that your question seemed like rolefishing.

what are everyone's thoughts on doing the bulletproof strategy, for those who know what it is?

How could I miss this I wanna vote this honestly

why?

than they do this:

Spoiler:

alright, here we are.
VOTE: fungrus

quick thoughts so far:
jamie's intro obviously shows that he's excited to play the game but i wouldn't be so quick to write him off as town. jamie's not a total newbie so a post like 45 comes off to me as slightly lamist. furthermore, i think he had a really awkward reaction to acid's entrance. such a serious reaction to what seemed to me to clearly be a nonserious entrance comes off as an overly self conscious player. in this case i don't read that as a personality trait, i read it as an alignment trait. overall a slight scumlean.

my second scumlean is fungrus. this one is a combination of a little bit of gut and really weak justification in 40. there's just something about 22 that pings me - maybe it's the attempt to integrate into rvs in a "friendly" or "jokey" manner, but again i think it's more likely to come from self-conscious town than from scum. as for 40, i'm a little annoyed - katyusha had already pointed out what i wanted to say, so not only do i not add anything by saying it but it makes me look like i'm just sheeping someone else's read.

speaking of katyusha, that's quite the explosive opening. i don't think i'd agree with claiming but it's already happened so there's not a lot of point discussing it. i had a feeling you were an alt before you mentioned it - you can kind of tell by the walls. excited to be playing with someone who really seems like they want to win, regardless of alignment!


by the way, it didn't actually take me this long since my last post to read the thread. i just got sidetracked.

er, yeah, i know about the bulletproof strat - i've gotten town to implement it myself in one game. what i'm saying is that in this situation it probably would've just been more beneficial to wait unti later - from what we've seen already you're quite the active town voice, so scum might have wanted to take a shot at you anyways. depriving them of the confirmation that you're bulletproof would've been valuable. they would've had less of an ability to plan out their actions. furthermore, if we consider the possibility of a dysfunctional town, scum might feel comfortable enough to kill you over the first two nights if they're trying to play the long game. doing so both deprives town of nightkill information for two days and allows scum to remove the conftown from a lylo/mylo situation, massively increasing their chances.

finally, given that you already seem like quite the town personality, it was already likely that people (including scum) would sheep you or tailor their reads to align with yours in order to subtly appear more town. now that you're confirmed town it's even more likely - in fact, typically it's recommended that conftowns hold back on giving their reads until everyone else has and generally just play more passively in order to avoid the previous point, but that would seem like a massive waste given your obvious desire to win / scumhunt.

so i guess i'd like to hear your thoughts on why you associated them more with the second than with the first.

[northsidegal]

You shouldn't NEED to guess based on past uPicks when your role pm tells you all of the information you need to know.

I didn't really care about wincon except to see that I was town, I was more interested in my role

but didn't you just go look back at it?

[northsidegal]

i doubt that ginngie's post restriction was faked but it seems slightly convenient that it got lifted so early.

what does that even mean

it doesn't seem like the post restriction itself was faked but something seems off about how it got lifted so early. like i already said, mastina's reasons for voting there seem slightly contrived within the context of voting ginngie being the way to get her in the game.

Just to be clear, NSG is trying to prove to me she's playing her scumgame, right?

no, i'm just suspicious of your townread on me.
i figured it was me.

[northsidegal]

it doesn't seem like the post restriction itself was faked but something seems off about how it got lifted so early. like i already said, mastina's reasons for voting there seem slightly contrived within the context of voting ginngie being the way to get her in the game.

you implying that she knew he needed to be voted and made up a reason to?

yes, that's exactly what i'm implying.

i figured it was me.

Why?

pedit: fire can be town I guess.

well, like i said – i would've scumread me based off of my first few posts. it was really down to only a pool of three people: myself, nosferatu and chickadee, and it just seemed like it was me out of those three. you scumread me at the start of that one game we played together, too, assuming that i'm correct in who you are.

I mean mastina and Ginngie are close so it makes sense she'd think something was up with Ginngie not posting

sure, i could definitely believe that – it's not like i'm calling the scumteam right now. it's just something that gives me pause.

[northsidegal]

well, like i said – i would've scumread me based off of my first few posts. it was really down to only a pool of three people: myself, nosferatu and chickadee, and it just seemed like it was me out of those three. you scumread me at the start of that one game we played together, too, assuming that i'm correct in who you are. i would've scumread me based off of my first few posts. it was really down to only a pool of three people: myself, nosferatu and chickadee, and it just seemed like it was me out of those three. you scumread me at the start of that one game we played together, too, assuming that i'm correct in who you are.

oh, i thought this was that other person whose name i can't remember talking to me, not ofg. the last part is directed at them.

[northsidegal]

yes well if you would all type a little slower i could've posted that beforehand!

[northsidegal]

This post is really scummy for trying to suggest mastina is telling a lot of lies.

i'm not saying mastina is telling a lot of lies – i'm suggesting that there's nothing to suggest that she's telling the truth, yet. i hate role madness games, so in terms of scumhunting i'm trying to treat this like a normal game.

yes, that's exactly what i'm implying.

why wouldn't she just rvs vote him?

ginngie doesn't need a post restriction to be townread

that's true, and something i hadn't considered. in that case the convenience wouldn't even need an explanation because the post restriction would likely never be brought up in the first place.

assuming that ginngie is telling the truth about the post restriction, does that tell us that it's likely that she's town, given that she wasn't voted in rvs?

[northsidegal]

How is that different?
You telling us to be skeptical is to put in our minds that there’s chance none of it’s true which would be a lie.

And I see no reason to tell people to be skeptical about claims like that unless you either A) pretty sure it’s horseshit or B) scum trying to keep options open

oh, please. mafia is a game of skepticism – not believing everything that people tell you. i saw something that, if valid, would suggest that mastina was scum. how is suggesting that someone else is lying scummy in the first place?

[northsidegal]

has anyone voting me actually seen a game before where i'm scum?

[northsidegal]

stop metaing me off of one game. i have three completed scumgames on site, one of which is shut up and vote.

[northsidegal]

like i recognize that i'm awkward in posting as scum but starting to come up with things that i specifically do as scum is guaranteed to lead you to false conclusions.

[northsidegal]

And yeah I would say 2 is arguing down towntells when the role is Mason

it's not "arguing down towntells" to suggest that the possibility exists that someone could be lying. like i said, this game is literally

entirely about

figuring out who's lying to you. what are you scumreading me for?

[northsidegal]

And yeah I would say 2 is arguing down towntells when the role is Mason

it's not "arguing down towntells" to suggest that the possibility exists that someone could be lying. like i said, this game is literally

entirely about

figuring out who's lying to you. what are you scumreading me for?

It is when there’s no Town motivation to suggest it

the reason i suggested it in the first place was because i saw something that, if true, would suggest mastina is scum. that's it. that's where this conversation started. is scumhunting not town motivated?

[northsidegal]

like it feels like you're contriving reasons at this point to be scumreading me.

[northsidegal]

right then, if you're done with that conversation then i am too.

[northsidegal]

And being skeptical isn’t just about putting doubt either as you tried to frame it as
If you are skeptical why not push your inquiries on mastina?

Skepticism without inquiry is pretty useless

i did. i never got a response before everyone else started talking about it because mastina wasn't around (presumably).

i doubt that ginngie's post restriction was faked but it seems slightly convenient that it got lifted so early. mastina's reasons for voting in 264 seem contrived.

mastina, why are you townreading most of the active players

?

[northsidegal]

Maybe I am dumb but I don’t know what mastina reads has to do with her claim being truthful or not

here's the post where mastina voted ginngie:

Maybe we can Civilization this.

If by that, you mean most of the active players are town and inactive ones, scum? Then yes. Most likely.
VOTE: Ginngie.
I am having trouble getting reads, admittedly. (Most people look town, not very many look like possible scum.)
But.
I know she was around earlier yet she didn't post here, so.

like i said, this didn't feel genuine to me – it felt like more of an excuse as for why she was voting someone who hadn't posted at all (within the context of ginngie's post restriction). mastina gave the reason that she was townreading most of the active players, so if her reasons there seemed similarly false then it would indicate that i might be onto something, with the inverse being true as well – if her motivations and reads seemed genuine, it might've meant that what i noticed really was just coincidence. lies beget more lies, and all that.

[northsidegal]

unofficial vc:

Flat Earth Society (1): Gamma Emerald

Creature (6): Ginngie, Smocaine, Whemeplay, Chickadee, Firebringer
Firebringer (2): Mastina, Yume, MathDino
Northsidegal (1): Nosferatu
Ginngie (1): Mastina
Whemeplay (1): Hinduragi
Gamma Emerald (0):
Obsessed Fan Grill (1): Espeonage
Chickadee (0):
Torn Up (1): ObsessedFanGrill
Hinduragi (0):
Mastina (0):
Taroumaru (0):
Espeonage (0):
Yume (0):
Mathdino (0):
Smocaine (0):
Nosferatu (0):
Not Voting: Some People

Flat Earth Society (1): Gamma Emerald

With 18 votes in play it's 10 to lynch.

[northsidegal]

No idea what the Creature wagon is about but it feels like a policy/unexplained meta lynch to me, which I'm not into at all this early.

Yume if you're a real vig, is it a day vig? and if so I like Dino's idea of using it on Creature so we can lynch stronger scum reads unless it ends the day.

cheeky, if you're uncomfortable with the creature wagon why would you want him to be vigged?

ofg seems like scum from the interaction with espeonage, who seems like town.

someone will have to explain to me why firebringer is town given that he's been counterclaimed and also seemingly guiltied.

also, creature is obvscum.

VOTE: creature

[northsidegal]

erm, creature should be at 6 votes now, not on the vc as i posted it.

[northsidegal]

Okay, I retract my northsidegal townread.

why?

[northsidegal]

i mean, from what i've heard and seen you really just can't replicate your town posting style as scum, and that's what i'm seeing this game. why shouldn't i be reading you as scum?

[northsidegal]

because scum!me can easily copy town!me in the first 2-3 days.

not from what i've seen. you seem bored this game, and i'm pretty sure that means you're scum.

someone will have to explain to me why firebringer is town given that he's been counterclaimed and also seemingly guiltied

Wait ur scumreading me now?

from your posting i'd say you're null, but from yume's counterclaim and wheme's "guilty" or whatever it was on you, it seems like people are just ignoring you, so i'd like to hear why.

[northsidegal]

not from what i've seen. you seem bored this game, and i'm pretty sure that means you're scum.

or just haven't kept track of my townreads before.

i'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. if you mean "towngames before", then i've read a lot of games where you were town, and compared to this game it's night and day.

[northsidegal]

I'm good with bringing the player count down lol, we'll have the Firebringer hint tomorrow
I promise to carry your asses D4

INTENT TO HAMMER

unless you're a quadruple voter or i can't do basic counting, pretty lame gambit.

Kingdom Hearts?

i read a lot of civilization mafia and surreptitious. i've also seen your scumgame before but i don't remember from what game.

[northsidegal]

hey, another math who can't add when it comes to votecounts.

[northsidegal]

I am leaning towards shooting u tonight northsidegal.
So I would like to sort you better.

My scum read isn’t that strong anymore but I do feel ur posts don’t have actual town motivation
Anything you want to talk about?

are you actually a vig? if so, what do you make of yume's claim?

[northsidegal]

it's six votes after my own vote, but i just messed it up the first time. creature is at 6 votes right now i'm pretty sure.

[northsidegal]

@mod did scum receive fakeclaims / sample town role pms?

[northsidegal]

Fourth point, more seriously (Fifth point): I still am having trouble with reads.
This game is the inverse of xyzzy's game, wherein I am town reading everyone.
…Which, mind you, is equally as useless as scumreading everyone.

So I need some time to figure out how to NOT be worthless.

are you saying that you're finding too many people scummy in this game? if so, what happened to earlier where you thought that most active players were town?


@firebringer, if you're still planning on shooting me then i'm not okay with our conversation being over.

[northsidegal]

mastina, you claimed masons with someone who

claimed scum

to you?

also, could you explain this:

(My masonbuddy will be able to confirm their identity without my help, by the way, by simple virtue of paraphrasing the contents of our PT--in particular, there was one thing which happened last night that ONLY my masonbuddy would be able to know about, relating to something I did last night that is not public knowledge but can be confirmed to have happened publicly. In short, they can tell you something I did which is undeniable that I did, but which only they would be able to tell I did because only they would know the nature of what I am talking about.)

[northsidegal]

Actually I remember I left myself a note.

vote:torn

Was definitely the obligatory bus at the end of the wagon.

i think anyone familiar with creature's meta would have bussed him there – why torn specifically?

[northsidegal]

Thoughts on Ginngie and ofg?

not many, honestly. ginngie's sole calling for creature's lynch later on in the day seems like a smart strategy

if

she were to be bussing him given that it largely avoids commenting on the rest of the game but i don't have anything that would indicate that it's more likely that she was bussing. the whole point i made yesterday earlier about the posting restriction is still relevant, as well, especially given that it's now known that mastina isn't actually a mason.

for ofg, i thought espeonage had a pretty good point about maki's reaction to torn up. otherwise, not much else comes to mind.

[northsidegal]

mastina knows who flipped scum, you might be misinterpreting what she's saying. she acknowledged hinduragi's flip in 994

[northsidegal]

mastina, how did hinduragi reveal this information to you? why did you believe him? why did you claim masons with someone who claimed scum to you?

[northsidegal]

NSG is ignoring me. I'm getting kind of frustrated that noone is answering my questions.

Let's start some drama eh? Tim Hortons; Sorry; The earth is flat; VOTE: NSG

~ C

of course i ignored you – you said the one thing in mafia that gets me really mad and then asked me about my role. i thought about reponding, but i didn't have anything to say.

[northsidegal]

i wasn't planning on it, but i can respond to your case if you'd like.

also, i should have some things to say to mastina and about hinduragi in general when i'm done.

[northsidegal]

i'd say my play so far has been entirely consistent with my scumgame. i would expect anyone familiar with my meta to scumread me so far, actually. what're you basing your comparison on?

I would lynxh north based on this post alone. Which town ever says something like that.

It sounds like "Look at me this looks like my svunmeta but it really isn't cause I just called it out and who would do that"

you miss the intention of what i was trying to figure out. math entered with a townread on me, which immediately pinged me. i know that he knows my (very sparse) scum meta, and i felt like i hadn't really done anything this game. thus, him townreading me in that situation seemed to indicate that he wasn't telling the truth or had some ulterior motive – namely, trying to pocket me. it's literally nothing at all like what you're saying it is – it's a request for someone else to clarify his meta read on me, because it didn't seem genuine. the information about me playing to my scumgame was just that – information for everyone else in the game to let them know the context and the purpose of the question that i'm asking.

has anyone voting me actually seen a game before where i'm scum?

Lol, even better since a few posts ago said himself that his play is like his scum meta.

Nice contradiction

it's not a contradiction at all – they were two entirely different scenarios. when i said the earlier quote to mathdino, at that point in the game i hadn't done much and i felt that his

townread

on me was unjustified on meta reasons. at the point in the game where i made this post, multiple people were on my wagon

based on meta reasoning that mathdino provided

– meta reasoning that i felt was utterly incorrect. when i asked this question, i was challenging the reason that people were voting me for ("downplaying towntells"). people quoted math saying that i did that as town when they voted me, and not only is that not true, but the people voting themselves were just taking it at face value that math was a) telling the truth and b) correct in his meta read of me.

i mean, i already knew this, but what i got from that was that you combed through my iso with the intention of looking for things you could point to as scummy ("gotcha" moments) rather than actually just trying to read me.

[northsidegal]

by the way – *her.

really, how do people mess that up? "gal" is in my name!

[northsidegal]

next question – if hinduragi had access to the scum private thread, then

by what measure was he a traitor

? among other things, that's my main hangup for this whole story. if hinduragi had access to the scum private thread, then what made him a traitor and not just another mafia member?

@mod, off the flip as given, did hinduragi have access to the scum private thread?

[northsidegal]

oh, he did.

[northsidegal]

i honestly don't understand most of what NSG just posted

NSG can you stop defending yourself for a second and give D2 reads pls

i don't really have a lot. espeonage seems like town, so do yume, wheme and mastina (given that i was wrong).

[northsidegal]

is the above post sarcastic?

[northsidegal]

the first part in specific, that is.

[northsidegal]

Oh lmao what a good guess! I'm so bad this game sorry people. I can't believe he said he had a guilty and fire flipped miller. I thought it was weird someone got a day cop or N0 on MS but I've never played a game like this before so *shrug*

I assume there are more hoods I'm unaware of. Was Wheme reaction testing?

~ C

given that it's not sarcastic, i get a really weird feeling from this post. perhaps it's because i'm not coming at this from the perspective of someone who's been chastised for not reading the thread, but it seems strangely apologetic in a way that makes it look nongenuine. there's really boring to apologize for about thinking that wheme had some kind of investigation on firebringer, given the flip - i thought it myself until just now. there's nothing to call yourself bad at the game for. calling it a "guess" also frames it strangely in a way that i can't really describe.

[northsidegal]

"really boring" should be "really no reason"

[northsidegal]

i have pretty much nothing to contribute to this game in terms of reads as of now.

[northsidegal]

Like Massclaim breaks large themes with scum down.
So yeah let's fuckin do it.

are you hoping to catch scum based on their abilities? if so, we don't know if scum had fakeclaims given to them – what do you hope to gain?

[northsidegal]

pedit: Actually its moreso I'm hoping to get some clears out.

Like I feel like I have a decent grab at RC's mod meta since he inspired me to design games the way I design them from crazy, flavor heavy, inspirational upicks and roles to just how I formatted my role pms.
I feel like I can understand RC's mod meta and outguess him easily.

if you want people with conftowns to out – why not just ask

those people to

claim their results?

if you're trying to guess scum based on abilities, i'll ask again – we don't know whether or not scum had fakeclaims, so what would you hope to accomplish?

[northsidegal]

has espeonage told you what you should know that i'm asking about?

just "yes" or "no" is fine.

[northsidegal]

ginngie, if you're alright with the massclaim, what difference does it make whether you go first or not?

[northsidegal]

why would you shoot espeonage, the towniest player in the entire game?

[northsidegal]

i'll make this game exciting, give me some time, though

[northsidegal]

Who ended up being the third person in the math pt?

Also pretty sure ofg is town.

[northsidegal]

What do you mean? Just my activity level?

[northsidegal]

Don't shoot smocaine, don't lynch him. We should be killing within (flat earth, nosferatu, math, wheme)

[northsidegal]

I think the nos slot has a good chance of being scum for this, it seems like torn up's strategy for dealing with their scumbuddies was to try to not mention them and question the cases on them (at least, going off of day one and the creature flip). The reaction also seems overblown if they were talking about a townie, especially one they didn't have in their fake townreads.

be useful and not useL E S S

Useless is being arrogant and mislynching town. Way to take one statement out of context to misrep us.

Why is nosterafu scum? You're being useless tunneling people with no reason so town can get behind you.

~ C

[northsidegal]

Why have i been less active? Because i've been busy with other things, and i don't always have something to say. Trust me when i say that just because i haven't been posting here as much, that doesn't mean i haven't been thinking about this game.

Why is wheme town, to you? Why is ofg scum?

[northsidegal]

and this guilty on Smocaine business is neither scum bussing nor scum calling a guilty on some random potentially vulnerable townie.

Why not?

OFG is in the lynchlist.

Why? That's not a reason.

The whole business with espeonage is far, far more town-indicative to me than anything wheme has done.

[northsidegal]

To clarify, why isn't it calling a guilty on some random townie?

[northsidegal]

To clarify, why isn't it calling a guilty on some random townie?

Obviously because this is MS not MU. That why.

i'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

Smocaine wouldn't be hard to get lynched in this gamestate. 1v1ing a townie in 10p is exactly as pointless as fakeclaiming a N0 guilty in a micro. WP doesn't seem the type to throw like that. It's either nighttime mixups or Smocaine is actually scum imo.

And bussing is also horribad at this point. The rest of the town has too much power.

I've given reasons on OFG before. Weeks ago at this point. Rn I'm pretty much checked out of this game. I'm more interested in your towncase on them than screaming a nullcase/scumcase into the void.

if you're town, i feel like you're making the same mistake that you made in 1983 with regards to firebringer. nothing about wheme's claim would put him into a 1v1 – it's obviously false, and he's already fakeclaimed a guilty before in this exact same game.

what's your experience with wheme?

i checked your iso for reasons on ofg and all i got was this:

the fuck? has gamma even been online?

i'm voting you because you're annoying me, not because i'm trying to stop a massclaim

this is a massive simplification of what went on day two, but if ofg were scum, why bother revealing their role at all or releasing espeonage at all when they could've just kept espeonage trapped and us in the dark?

[northsidegal]

We're actually conftown on the basis that the both of us would be a lot more engaged and caring about the game if we rolled scum since that's our prefered alignment.

didn't you make this same point about engagement in 753, where you were scum? i seem to recall a lot of "i don't care about this game", or something to the same effect.

will respond to math in a sec

[northsidegal]

1. Just experience with Screenplay. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be cool with doing as scum. It already blew a lot of their towncred the first time they did it. Why go again?
I do want a real fullclaim tho.

i didn't get the sense that screenplay had a lot of say in what wheme has been doing, if this series of events was any indication:

Spoiler:

Hard claiming Miller.

We are not a Miller btw

We are not a Miller btw

We are miller.
He is being a dipshit.

Srceen obv didn't read our role

2. Pretty sure there was something else back in D2. D3 I just wanted to pressure vote people into doing things. Like I'm not gonna seriously try to lynch someone when 3 or 4 other people have done absolutely nothing. If there's anything to townread, I get the impression that they still give a shit about the game. Giving up is a sign of disappointed scum.

i'm not sure what this is in response to – if it's my quoting of your ofg reasons from before, could you just restate those reasons right now to clear up the confusions?

3. Because lying makes things worse. What would OFG claim when pressured into a massclaim? 1-shot flipless vig? Releasing Espe created the benefit of having someone in the daythread advocating for their interests, and also creating towncred.

why would ofg have to claim responsibility for targeting espeonage at all? also remember that ofg was the one to push for the massclaim in the first place.

Understand that I'm not saying GUYS OFG IS TOP SCUMREAD LOL. Top scumreads are the people who haven't been around at all.

Glad you're back (this game otherwise feels like me banging my head against a wall), but the fact that you're suddenly engaged the moment I call you out for not being around is uncomfortable and reminds me of Pick Your Power.

Still would rather lynch TFES.
VOTE: TFES

hey, i said i'd make the game exciting.

[northsidegal]

NGL, OFG could have just taken in a scum member like Torn Up and then release them in a LyLo to win it.

I thought this so I know Alisae would have if they were scum.

So.

that counts on there being two scum left, though – do we know what the teams looked like?

also, did we ever clear up why you haven't disappeared? (assuming that ofg targeted you with the alien thing)

[northsidegal]

We were faking dissonance

for what purpose?

[northsidegal]

Just because that's the plan doesn't mean we can't talk about other things.

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

I don't really think flat earth is scum. I'd rather lynch fitz, i think.

[northsidegal]

eh, i'll give fitz a chance to say whatever he has to say – i'm still pretty sure it's him, i'd just hate to lose the game by rushing.

[northsidegal]

You don't think it could be tarou?

[northsidegal]

depends on how the bodyguard works, right? don't certain bodyguards only protect from getting shot or nightkills and not from a suicide action?

i think it's more likely to be wheme anyways – espeonage indicated to me that he thought wheme was the last scum too, back on the day before yesterday, i believe.

[northsidegal]

can you please explain your scumread on me? because your initial case on me was, and i mean no offense by this, terrible. just wondering what else you're going off of here, and it's kind of been bothering me.

[northsidegal]

also, don't we instantly lose in a 3 person lylo with ginngie?

[northsidegal]

can you please explain your scumread on me? because your initial case on me was, and i mean no offense by this, terrible. just wondering what else you're going off of here, and it's kind of been bothering me.

I mean at this point it s also PoE

That's not really good enough as an answer. Explain the poe, please - why are you townreading wheme?

[northsidegal]

Also that hammer yesterday was really bad.

[northsidegal]

i think my interactions with the flipped scum make it

incredibly

obvious that i'm not scum. like, my interactions with every single one of them.

[northsidegal]

hey uh, why didn't anyone die?

[northsidegal]

14) Players not use factional and individual actions simultaneously unless their role PM explicitly says otherwise.

[northsidegal]

could be tarou with the compulsive bg meaning the factional kill is impossible.

[northsidegal]

i think i could no-lynch in this situation.

[northsidegal]

sure wish fitz could have shared whatever info he had. at the very i think it wasn't anything incriminating on you given 2821.

[northsidegal]

even if you were shot and one vote kills you, yume still has one vig shot left, right?

feeling good about winning this one now.

[northsidegal]

No idea what the Creature wagon is about but it feels like a policy/unexplained meta lynch to me, which I'm not into at all this early.

Yume if you're a real vig, is it a day vig? and if so I like Dino's idea of using it on Creature so we can lynch stronger scum reads unless it ends the day.

cheeky, if you're uncomfortable with the creature wagon why would you want him to be vigged?

ofg seems like scum from the interaction with espeonage, who seems like town.

someone will have to explain to me why firebringer is town given that he's been counterclaimed and also seemingly guiltied.

also, creature is obvscum.

VOTE: creature

Okay, I retract my northsidegal townread.

Okay, I retract my northsidegal townread.

why?

because I expected town!you to be competent enough to not just go "okay, creature is obvscum"

i mean, from what i've heard and seen you really just can't replicate your town posting style as scum, and that's what i'm seeing this game. why shouldn't i be reading you as scum?

because scum!me can easily copy town!me in the first 2-3 days.

because scum!me can easily copy town!me in the first 2-3 days.

not from what i've seen. you seem bored this game, and i'm pretty sure that means you're scum.

someone will have to explain to me why firebringer is town given that he's been counterclaimed and also seemingly guiltied

Wait ur scumreading me now?

from your posting i'd say you're null, but from yume's counterclaim and wheme's "guilty" or whatever it was on you, it seems like people are just ignoring you, so i'd like to hear why.

not from what i've seen. you seem bored this game, and i'm pretty sure that means you're scum.

or just haven't kept track of my townreads before.

not from what i've seen. you seem bored this game, and i'm pretty sure that means you're scum.

or just haven't kept track of my townreads before.

i'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. if you mean "towngames before", then i've read a lot of games where you were town, and compared to this game it's night and day.

i was thinking something along the same lines, really, but doesn't that plan rely on tarou telling the truth?

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

i feel like that plan relies on tarou telling the truth about dying to yume suiciding.

[northsidegal]

i'm not, really

i think wheme is more likely to be scum anyways, but if we're lynching wheme and he flips town then yume should no kill, the only person tarou could shoot would be me and then you guys just speedlynch him in lylo.

[northsidegal]

like if we lynch wheme then apparently you're bulletproof and if tarou is telling the truth about being a bg in the first place then he can't shoot yume, and if yume dies then it's a scumclaim from him anyways, so just speedlynch him then

[northsidegal]

messed up my thought there, he can't shoot yume anyways, he can't shoot you, the only person left to shoot is me.

[northsidegal]

oh true

well in that case can we do your plan but instead of shooting me yume shoots tarou? from my perspective that's the only way to ensure town wins (assuming you're also town, which i believe)

[northsidegal]

i don't die

[northsidegal]

but seriously it would be to counteract if tarou is lying about dying for yume when yume suicides

[northsidegal]

by the way, scum wincondition is just when town is removed or nothing can prevent that, not when they control more than half of the votes. not entirely sure the ramifications of that yet.

[northsidegal]

i also feel like if tarou was a scum compulsive bodyguard to the point where he couldn't perform the factional kill when he was the only one left then either there would be some line about this not applying when he was the last scum in his role pm or he would have just been endgamed

[northsidegal]

meaning that that may not be the best explanation of the no nightkill

[northsidegal]

if you suicide bomb someone who bodyguards you, that doesn't necessarily imply that you'll die, right?

yume would only die if tarou was lying about protecting her and he would be scum anyways. meaning that if yume shoots tarou and he flips town then she should survive to lylo anyways.

[northsidegal]

I know, but tarou said that he can protect yume from that:

I do save her if she suicides she asked.

What I'm saying is that if tarou is telling the truth, yume would'nt die if she shot tarou. If tarou is lying, that makes him scum, so we would win anyways if she shot him.

this plan does rely on you not being scum and nightkilling someone, but that's something which i'm reasonably confident in.

[northsidegal]

yeah maybe none of this mattesr because scum could always just nightkill someone else.

[northsidegal]

i am 3 times cleared as town from associatives.

[northsidegal]

so wait no lynch and shoot tarou?

if wheme is scum then he shoots me but then it's you and yume and him in lylo and yume doesn't have a vote so ?

[northsidegal]

are you sure you die if you get one vote on you after getting shot, by the way?

[northsidegal]

for one i can't trust that you're telling the full truth about your role.

for two, can you explain the inconsistency there?

[northsidegal]

no, i mean that you're saying that there's an inconsisteny between you being scum (the scum wincon) and your role claim. i'm asking you to explain it

[northsidegal]

I don't see how that can't come from scum honestly. the non flipping part of it makes me thing it's more likely to come from scum, really.

[northsidegal]

erm, gin?

[northsidegal]

tarou is already the one voting me, not wheme.

i'm pretty sure i'm mechanically the worst lynch and also literally spewed cleared from scum three different times.

[northsidegal]

i'm also not sure what about wheme's roleclaim makes you townread him.

[northsidegal]

sure, i guess i've held it off publicly long enough. i'm shortwave radio, unrestricted communication. rules about out of game communication don't apply to me, meaning i can pm or sitechat people whenever i want (they just can't respond). i've been privately communicating with my townreads throughout the entire game. espeonage's meme post restriction day two was faked to get messages across to me, then i pmed chickadee. the day after that when osg had kidnapped espeonage i private messaged him, ofg relayed a message from him and that basically conftowned both of them to me.

[northsidegal]

OH LOOK IF WHEMES SCUM I HAMMER NOW

OH WAIT

that doesn't mean anything – yume still has a vig shot.

[northsidegal]

you can still unvote, gin.

[northsidegal]

it's not slow rolling – if wheme were to scumclaim now he would just lose when yume vigged him.

[northsidegal]

Can we not lose just for no reason?

[northsidegal]

it's not slow rolling – if wheme were to scumclaim now he would just lose when yume vigged him.

SCUM IS BEFORE VIG

That doesn't mean anything, you would still die and there would still be one town left alive.

[northsidegal]

I'm not sure what you think "scum goes first" means in the first place???

Like there are 4 town alive right now, lynch me it goes down to 3, you can only shoot one of them and then you would get shot yourself. We're not in lylo.

[northsidegal]

Wheme, can you actually tell me why you think I'm scum? I'd like people to actually take this game seriously and for me to not get lynched for literally no reason when i should be unbelievably clear by now.

[northsidegal]

That's never been how NAR has worked.

[northsidegal]

And tarou?

[northsidegal]

@Gin and tarou, too

Wheme, can you actually tell me why you think I'm scum? I'd like people to actually take this game seriously and for me to not get lynched for literally no reason when i should be unbelievably clear by now.

[northsidegal]

please? i can't really respond to that and if you're just going to be voting me for no reason at all i'm really not sure what else to say.

[northsidegal]

i also don't understand this sudden switch in the slightest and it's making me doubt that i was right with my read on you.

[northsidegal]

yeah, and you

know

the reason for that – it's because i was doing most of my communication privately.

[northsidegal]

Why have i been less active?

Because i've been busy with other things

, and i don't always have something to say.

Trust me when i say that just because i haven't been posting here as much, that doesn't mean i haven't been thinking about this game

.

[northsidegal]

i'm having a really hard time believing that gin receives the message i sent her, realizes the context of a lot of the weird communication that's been going on in the thread there and still manages to think that that's been scum faking.

[northsidegal]

also, would like to reiterate – literally spewed town by every single scum that's flipped so far.

[northsidegal]

it's not. really hope you're scum.

[northsidegal]

god.

[northsidegal]

i hate getting lynched like this so much.

[northsidegal]

it's that there's an entire game's worth of content to review and people who really don't seem to be taking the game very seriously ignore it all and just "lol let's vote north".

it makes me seem like i hate having fun when i get upset at it but i also enjoy not losing.

[northsidegal]

go ahead

[northsidegal]

happy scumday rc!