Just Play the Hits uPick - Video Killed the Radio Star

[Venmar]

i don't know, but am i wrong in thinking that dino's last few posts just feel like paniced flailing and appealing to emotion?

i'm also honestly never really a fan of the "oh i was just voting them/starting a wagon on them just to gather reactions!" since it's an easy free get out of jail card excuse if your wagon goes south, or an easy excuse for what is essentially a bad vote on someone you might not necessarily think is scum.

dino

- can i get your reads list on the playerbase?

re: KK's read on SK

- i'm actually in agreement with kk that sleepykrew, though in my eyes not inherently town because of it, has clearly put more effort into the game than other contemporary players he's compared to. i actually think it's a really odd read to nitpick in this case.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Napoleon everybody

If he were town he'd be more active and engaged

[Venmar]

^ i honestly think most of the players in this game would be more active and engaged if they were town so it's a very mute point for me at this point.

[Mathdino]

I understand why you feel that way (I've seen reads like that before), but then you're basically implying that I lied about having pre-planned this out, which is just not something I do. I can accept "Oh Mathdino is just playing by a playbook, must be scum planning the day out", because like, fine, I do that as both alignments. But if your argument is that I tried to cop out of doing something bad by saying WHOOPS JUST A REACTION TEST GUYS, that's just not my thing.

I wouldn't call it a trust tell, because it says nothing about my alignment (I'm pretty careful about maintaining that), but I think it's fair to say that I would never rewrite history as scum, and call bad play a reaction test.

Early wagons are pretty much how I get into the game if I can't immediately read a ton of players, and I have a long track record of doing this. Shitty/slow starts like this are also why I tend to do better replacing in. If you're looking through it under the lens of "Mathdino is supposed to play better than this", then yeah, you're gonna keep tunneling me, but like I said, read my explanation and my plan for how I thought today was gonna go, then read my ISO through that lens. It should make a lot of my behaviour make a lot more sense, and all of that was stuff I was going to say around when Espeonage went after me, but Godel hadn't responded yet (and you can see me alluding to the fact that it was basically solely a early pressure/test wagon).

But yeah I'll write one up. Be aware that it could potentially involve subconscious reads-forcing. I'll point out which players I'm more confident on and I'll do another VCA thing before the hammer if it comes to that.

[Gamma Emerald]

^ i honestly think most of the players in this game would be more active and engaged if they were town so it's a very mute point for me at this point.

But he specifically doesn't like playing scum

[CooLDoG]

Dino is to me still a good d1 lynch. He has not really scum hunted much for this game, and the fact he still harps on the early wagon of "how he gets into the game" would only ring true if this weren't page 14.

I do not like the napolian counter wagon. As I said, an SK wagon or a sir elton wagon. ELto for simple parroting on a dead wagon, and SK for posting basically no content.

[CooLDoG]

sorry, that meant to be SIR ELTON.

[SleepyKrew]

Ari's inactivity is null
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Napoleon

[Vaxkiller]

Ari's activity is null and you vote ari? Also when voting you have to spell the name correctly.

[Vaxkiller]

Cool dog, what scum hunting have you done?

Also Aris town activity is typically more active and helpful.

[SleepyKrew]

I trust reck

Yeah I'm willing to take a deadline lynch on a null useless slot

[DeathNote]

re: KK's read on SK - i'm actually in agreement with kk that sleepykrew, though in my eyes not inherently town because of it, has clearly put more effort into the game than other contemporary players he's compared to. i actually think it's a really odd read to nitpick in this case.

I stated he was a more active version then Assemble and... someone? I can't remember. Point being, the comparison was what you just stated in that he put more effort into the game then those counterparts. I'm not sure why people keep repeating that statement.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ari's inactivity is null
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Napoleon

how

[Mathdino]

Assembler

: Should've been prodded already. I've seen town-Assembler make some of the most godawful sheep votes in history. The best I can say here not having seen his scum meta is that I'm guessing this is town just because he wouldn't make 192, and 154 isn't a completely brain dead thought.
Townlean.

Cooldog

: I've been scumreading this slot since going after me, but I always have crazy-ass reads when it comes to people who strongly read me one way or the other, so I asked other people weigh in on this.
Which they didn't (and you guys wonder why I haven't been able to do anything).
56 is just talk talk, nothing substantial. 96 is exactly the same. A lot of words that look nuanced but don't affect the gamestate at all.
Initial vote on me was literally for the stated reasons of "rolefishing Varsoon" (which I did not do), "reducing town information" by complaining about Venmar/Varsoon clogging up the thread, which is shit tier white knighting, and my "hypocracy of "no post over a paragraph"", which was a shitpost that he's continued to push me over.
I'm confident arguing that he basically hasn't done anything since this initial push, as by 165 he basically made his votepark clear basically due to no progress being made in the game (yes, lynch me over the half of the playerlist that isn't doing shit).
So yeah feeling scum here, but this read really only works FMPOV.

DeathNote

: 65 reads to me as something that scum don't say -- obviously setuppy type of thing, unnecessary for any kind of scum agenda. Comments seem gamesolvy, nuanced, voting record is okay, etc etc. Could never bring myself to lynch a slot that's this pro-town in contribution, and honestly he's prob just gonna get sorted by the NK.
Town.

Espeonage

: Absolutely nothing before his V/LA is AI imo. WKs Assembler, which I initially figured was bad, but then I realised that Assembler is basically the last person you want to white knight/pocket, given that he has 0 influence over the game. Would be a bad scum move, and the general complaints about the gamestate (which ultimately unfortunately led to voting me) ring true and genuine.
Town.

Gamma

: I don't feel qualified to get an accurate read here (never played with scum-Gamma). Nothing early on seems to townclear him. Really glad that no one has provided a read on Gamma that I can factcheck /s
109 feels wrong. Useless self-meta line, a token Godel vote justification, and a super LAMISTy "LET'S LET EVERYONE DO WHAT THEY WANT, WHO CAN RELATE?" in response to my sarcasm.
Okay but then 153 really doesn't seem like something scum would make.

@Gamma:

Please elaborate on your read progression on me with regards to rolefishing.
A few seemingly random trajectories through the game seems pretty town to me; I can't really come up with political reasons to justify his switches. Espeonage wagon was bad but believable, and Napoleon is a fine vote.
Null if only because I'm being pulled in a few ways on this. I would trust players who've played with Gamma here.

Godel/KK

: Godel's ISO is ridiculous, and I've seen him lurk out of a scumgame while I was pushing him.
Kublai Khan's 296 lynchpool is REALLY bad (oh okay your scumpool is 2 lurkers and the guy who spearheaded your wagon got it)
but the discussion on SKrew, in particular the insight in 307 is more than enough for me to table this as a lynch prospect today and probably tomorrow.
Town with a bad catchup.

hebichan

: Entrance was strong but that's 1/8 of the ISO that comes off town. Looks like posturing, overjustification, AtE in 279 (which actually misinterpreted what I meant by "discrediting my Godel wagon"), and speaking from experience with Gamma, Gamma is a really easy D1 scumpush to make. Defence of me feels alignment-informed.
Scum. Also basically only works FMPOV.

Napoleon

: I strongly gutread this entrance as scum and then I realised it was Aristophanes . Wouldn't mind if he died at this point, given that he apparently has the time to catch up in full on GD threads but no time to read a damn geriatric. No indication he's town.
Null, lynchable.

pirate mollie

: I discussed this already, people just disagreed with it. I think a lot of things said in 95 are not things scum would say. Basically everything else seems NAI, including the votepark on a lurker, which ruined my game the same way it seems to have ruined hers. Fuck lurkers.
Townlean, I have stronger reasons to townread others at this point.

Sir Eltuntrod Tripod

: Seems to be the only person here who was able to articulate the value in the Godel wagon. Seems town-motivated, nowhere near LAMISTy enough to seem intentional. 174 is pretty much #goodposting. Activity drops off, seemingly because Godel never came back?
Townlean.

SKrew

: Slightly annoying flippant behaviour reads town. I largely echo Kublai Khan's thoughts on this slot.
Town for now. don't pool him with the lurkers.

ogod i'm getting to the V's

Varsoon

: Right so 55 was, as previously mentioned, utterly shit and 75% moon logic, which I usually townread, but then he turns it into this massive 1v1 with Venmar that sizzles out and leads to a switch on me. I said earlier that scum-Varsoon correct play would've been to drop the Venmar thing when it was politically advantageous, and his switch onto me felt political if I've ever seen it. Nothing in this ISO seems like it couldn't be fakable by scum.
If there's one post that sticks out to me as a potential towntell, it's 211, where he assumes that just reading my ISO is enough to make a scumread of me obvious, which implies that he genuinely believes this.
So null? I've read games by him and have a shit record of predicting his flip so you guys can sort this shit out. His play has been pretty bad but I guess that's lowkey expected of him.

Vaxkiller

: Townreading 115 for the same reason I'm townreading DN early game. Feels too unnecessarily setuppy; scum doesn't broadcast here HEY I'M USING MY NEG ABILITY. Don't think scum-Vax just drops lines of interrogation due to a fake townread either. Why do that when you can look busy by pretending to push people to generate content?
A lot of the rest just reads like crazy-ass town. Kinda reminds me of Quick's playstyle. But also feels like the kinda player where a lot of these posts would be outside his scumrange.
Town.

Venmar

: I'm not reading the walls again. Shitting on me for shitting on him reads as more emotional than opportunistic/political. Ignoring response to my response, pretty clearly NAI. I'm trying to force myself to not care about his consistent shading of me based around what seems like bad mafia theory. A lot of things people think are scumtells are not scumtells (and half of them are actually towntells), but a lot of older MSers are too rooted into their playstyles/philosophies to change that. Which I guess is a pretty good explanation for why I get scumread by older players more often than newer players.
ANYWAY
Look if I'm gonna ignore the defence against Varsoon (fuck defences) and the push against me (I'm hella biased), there's nothing in here scum couldn't fake (no real towntells other than apparent emotional vote), but nothing particularly scummy either. You could argue that the way that he shades players from afar (Espeonage in 229, Ari in 305) is some opportunistic shit to add fuel to the various fires. I would have to know that he doesn't consistently do this as town in order to scumread this.

Calling on people who know Venmar, someone talk to me about this behaviour.

I would be pretty uncomfortable if he survived to LyLo, seems like he'd be in a super strong position if scum.
Null???

xRECKONERx

: It bothers me that he always appears at the end of alphabetical user lists due to that 'x' in his name, despite the fact that I in no way associate him with those 'x's nor do I pronounce them when I say his username.

Here's a list (orders within categories are meaningless):

Town:
DeathNote
Espeonage
Kublai
Vax

Probtown:
Assembler
mollie
UT
SKrew

Null/needs sorting:
Gamma (need meta)
Napoleon (no activity)
Varsoon (can't read this shit, no burden to be good as town so)
Venmar (uncomfortable playstyle, scum if his behaviours are not central to said style)

Scumlean:
Cooldog

Probscum:
hebichan

Would obviously be willing to vote anyone null and below, along with probably Assembler (granted if it literally gets to the deadline, all bets are off, so please disband the Espeonage wagon so I don't have to counterwagon a townread thank youuu).

[Mathdino]

Mathdino(4) ~ CooLDoG(10), Venmar(26), Varsoon(25), Espeonage(21)
Espeonage(4) ~ Vaxkiller(23), Gamma Emerald(30), SleepyKrew(29), Assemblerotws(4)
Kublai Khan(2) ~ Mathdino(35), Sir Elton Hercules John(8)
Vaxkiller(1) ~ Kublai Khan(6)
hebichan(1) ~ DeathNote(25)
Gamma Emerald(1) ~ hebichan(8)
CooLDoG(1) ~ Napoleon III(8)
Assemblerotws(1) ~ pirate mollie(14)

oh fuck me

my counterwagon options are literally
1. a townread
2. a weaker townread
3. my top scumread who's been defending me, wow that's a fun counterwagon
4. literally just any lurker

look if people on my wagon are willing to switch to hebichan then i'm down but given this massive inactivity i feel like all we're gonna agree on is a non-polarising lurker that doesn't really read strongly either way
i propose napoleon obviously
although hebichan does classify as a viable lurker

i would REALLY REALLY hope that you guys are good enough to not make the 2 default lynch options of the day be 2 players who are active, open, and contribute to the town

whoever said i wasn't scumhunting is ridiculous, i've clearly been townhunting as best i can but way too many people are null and no one ever answers my "poll the audience" questions or engages me outside of "wow yeah that's scumposting, math's pushes are shit" so idk what y'all fkin expected

we are not lynching espeonage or me, we're lynching a lurker and recovering with the new information from tomorrow

[Kublai Khan]

The best I can say here not having seen his scum meta is that I'm guessing this is town just because he wouldn't make 192

This is the second sentence of your analysis and it makes no goddamn sense at all.

[DeathNote]

We are gonna lose sooooo much activity if Dino gets lynched lol.

I'll read this later when I get off work. Thanks for the reads.

[Kublai Khan]

and 154 isn't a completely brain dead thought.

And that post actually was a totally brain dead thought.

[Mathdino]

I'm a towntell reliant player.

Scum-Assembler in the situation where he wakes up and decides "hey I think the post I make is going to be one about how cool and pro-town I'm being reducing the effect of my negative ability!"
He doesn't go into the thread, say "Hey I found something" and just fucking leave without placing a vote. He's not a total idiot, and I'm making the assumption that he at least uses his one liner once-per-2-days posts to try to survive as scum.
Scum-Assembler feels like he'd go in and actually elaborate and make it clear that he's totally doing what's best for the town (rather than not explaining at all), and then posts a vote.

So yeah, towntell, he's just genuinely fuckin useless.

[Kublai Khan]

.......

Okay.

VOTE: MathDino

[Venmar]

"fakable by scum" is honestly such a trash idea. like i mean literally everything anyone does can be faked. based on how some people play, certain "scumtells" could even be done by town and vice versa. it's such a wish-washy, hand-waving type of reasoning to sort of give you a reason to broadly dismiss a person's content one way or another.

"shading", or what i like to call, making observations, is also just something i do as a player. i rarely talk about my townreads since i think they're town and i don't feel the need to interact with them.

ftr

town:

me

townlean:

deathnote
kublai khan
vaxxkiller

null, possibly townlean:

varsoon (pending his further contributions to the game)
cooldog

null:
sleepykrew (some good vibes, but mostly null)
assemble
ser elton john (not the best vibes from some posts but mostly null here)
hebichan
gamma emerald (some reservations here, could bump this lower since i feel like i'd expect more out of town-gamma based on my experience with him so far)
espeonage (page 9 content is bad, but i've had some good pings since then. needs further sorting)

null, possibly scumlean:

napoleon 3
pirate mollie

scumlean:

mathdino

everything is a "lean" because i think it'd be silly to go hard concrete on anything just yet but im happy with these reads atm.

will repeat

- i want varsoon to do something plsssss. also pirate mollie and gamma emerald. will help quite a bit to help sort them.

[Mathdino]

The fuck scum motivation do you think there is in arguing a completely inactive Assembler is town, HAVING PLAYED WITH TOWN-ASSEMBLER 4 TIMES, using logic that has an extremely high rate of clearing 2017ers for me?

Like jesus fucking christ a grand total of 0 of the players who've scumread me have:
- Told me why the Godel wagon was shit
- Engaged with my reads or told me why they think my reads are wrong
- Answered my questions about other players when I've asked for help on my reads to be less shit
- Helped early wagon people for reactions

Meanwhile, half of said players find it perfectly acceptable to bitch about the gamestate when I've been doing what I'm reasonably capable of to sort with the techniques that I know, while LITERALLY A MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS have made fewer goddamn posts than the mod?

I'm not a difficult fucking read with flips/VCA. I'm good at setup breaking and I'm good at picking the right lynches. Scum kills an active player tonight and town coasts on night actions tomorrow.

Or tries to, because this setup is designed to do exactly that.

We are lynching someone who is actually responsible for hurting the gamestate.

Edit: Venmar, here's how I work:
1. Scan posts for town-indicative things
2. Ask myself (often by gut) whether the player in question seems likely to post that as scum faking town
3. Filter out the content that seems easy to fake by scum
4. Leave in the posts that seem outside said players' scumrange

Some players bleed town, when I literally believe that almost every single post they make would be outside their scum range.
0 people have bled town this game. All I have is nuggets.
I'm not going to just townread someone for being smart and writing decent posts. Especially when they make trash arguments that are well written.
You and Cooldog have in broad ways dismissed my attempts at sorting players by focusing on me openly talking about what I don't know, or can't read. Again ignoring the fact that I can fucking easily just read a bunch of posts and bullshit some evidence for a strong read one way or another.
Saying "I don't fucking know how to read this" is not scumread-worthy. Get off your high horse.

[Vaxkiller]

Mathdino, full claim please so we have the time to decide on what to do.

[Mathdino]

It's not alignment indicative and this is my last post for the next 7.5 hours, but it'll cast some light on earlier actions.

Negative ability is a 1 shot next day janitor. Potentially the worst possible negative. I realised claiming was probably a bad idea on the logic of "LYNCH MATH BEFORE HE CAN USE IT" but w/e. It's confirmable by me not using it, like I said repeatedly and before I ever thought I'd get run up today.

Targeted ability is protective.

Passive is ascetic, also applying to NKs.

So yeah if Alisae thinks I'd sacrifice a flip on the chance that a kill is stopped down the line... That's insane.

I basically claim VT. If you want flavour lemme know, but Im pretty sure there are safeclaim PMs anyway, so idk why it matters.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma

: I don't feel qualified to get an accurate read here (never played with scum-Gamma). Nothing early on seems to townclear him. Really glad that no one has provided a read on Gamma that I can factcheck /s
109 feels wrong. Useless self-meta line, a token Godel vote justification, and a super LAMISTy "LET'S LET EVERYONE DO WHAT THEY WANT, WHO CAN RELATE?" in response to my sarcasm.
Okay but then 153 really doesn't seem like something scum would make.

@Gamma:

Please elaborate on your read progression on me with regards to rolefishing.
A few seemingly random trajectories through the game seems pretty town to me; I can't really come up with political reasons to justify his switches. Espeonage wagon was bad but believable, and Napoleon is a fine vote.
Null if only because I'm being pulled in a few ways on this. I would trust players who've played with Gamma here.

First off why are you devaluing your meta here? You've played with me a couple of times. I can provide scumgames if you like.
109 I didn't realize it was sarcasm
153, The rolefishing thing, I thought there was an inconsistency between this game and the UPick but it was explained by you being scum, so rather than my point being wrong it was nullified by remembering the circumstances.