Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Mina]

Hi, everyone! I literally hate Mafia and haven't played it in two years and I literally hate it. I'm replacing into a 130-page game to bash my head against a wall until my skull is a bloody pulp as performance art for you all.

[Mina]

Have to go right now, but I got a chance to read like the first fifty pages while I was waiting for the go-ahead to start posting and do a tiny bit of skimming. I guess here's a teaser:

VOTE: chesskid3

I was getting really weird vibes from him skimming along, because although his posts were superficially protown and I would probably like them coming from different players, he felt...not at all like I imagined chesskid would be as town. Too structured and restrained, if that makes any sense? But I didn't actually know his meta at all.

But then I briefly checked out other posts from him, and lmao, he's like a completely different person.

Chesskid, do you think it's fair of me to say you're playing differently fron usual? I'm actually willing to be proven wrong on this.

No real opinion on Radja yet, though. I see CDB thought he was town, so...sure? Maybe?

[Mina]

Oh, one last thing--reasons why everyone thinks Dunkerdoodle is town? On my reread so far, literally everyone seems to treat him as 100% cleared since like the beginning. It felt like he didn't do much, though. Is it just meta?

If we're discussing townreads, I think Titus is probtown based on skirt's reaction to being wagoned and Transcend's posting (particularly his interactions with LLD), although I haven't got to her entry yet. The rest I'm not 100% confident yet. I thought she had a good point re:UCV being on the LLD wagon (really can't see it being an all-town lynch), but a lot of people seemed to have meta townreads on UVV and I also remembered liking Math's point on Creature giving reads for RC (but I need to doublecheck what said reads were). Keychain's reaction to LLD's AtE (with RadiantCowbells coming in) didn't seem like a bus to me, although Idk if all her protown warm and fuzzy content is completely unfakeable.

No idea on Bulb, because I was hoping to be Patrick in a butterfly costume and sheep whatever he said so I wouldn't have to catch up with this game, but Patrick seems to still suspect him while CDB seemed to have moved away from it. This read is pending on whatever happened at the end of D2 to change everyone's minds, I guess.

Bins is a huge mixed bag, because some of her stances read s really scummy, but a few individual posts read as genuine--specifically the ones reacting to LLD's wagon.

[Mina]

But okay, really gtg for at least the next few hours. As a warning, my reads will probably be INCREDIBLY waffly this game (moreso than usual, for like the...one or two of you who've actually seen me play before). I'm pretty sure I used to kind of know what a scumtell is, back in the Dark Ages.

[Mina]

Ooh, maybe I should triple-post for the hell of it. That's what the kids are doing these days, right? I'm pretty sure I read an MD theead about it!

[Mina]

Archwing, I see this is sort of doubling up on what Titus and Radja already asked now that I'm looking back, but you think chesskid is playing completely differently from his town meta, right? And your read is at best null for him because of that? But you're not scumreading him? Do you have stronger scumreads? (Sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself because I'm doing a lot of skimming to keep up.)

Turning off my phone for real now.

[Mina]

You got us all. 4/5 of the five-person scumteam consists of lurkers or easy targets, and their brilliant scum strategy is all to gang up you because you're such an easy lynch compared to everyone else on this player list and we're all so upset you busted us (based on PoE aince everyone else is so town, apparently).

If it was within the past 100 pages, I probably haven't seen it yet.

[Mina]

How would a vacation make you more cautious, also? Less active, sure.

But okay, turning off my phone now FOR REAL. Please no one get me into a back-and-dorth or else I'll never escape!

[Mina]

Humour me. Why would someone scumreading you here be bad at the game? I mean, i don't consider myself to be a god of Mafia, but other people are seeing what I'm seeing here. Why do you think we're all wrong, other than "boy you suck at Mafia"?

(Gdi, phone off!)

[Mina]

Hi, chesskid. He is! I haven't spoken to him in a bit, but he's in school and living with KM.

[Mina]

I mean...okay, you'd know we're all wrong if you're town. I meant why it'd be such an absurd conclusion to draw. I forget how to English.

[Mina]

Re: my entrance to the game, it occurred to me it probably made no sense to anyone since almost no one knows who I am. No, I'm not planning to troll the game. I'm just going to have lots of emotional breakdowns and anxiety over who to vote that will make me wonder why I agreed to this! Aren't you guys excited? ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

My team really liked Eddie's/Titus's thoughts (@Eddie: Patrick says he probably won't have time to read the whole game, but will probably take another look at it in a few nights, and also he's the one who pushed the Bulb case to CDB if you have questions). I really liked Bulb's recent post. (Maybe chesskid is right and I am biased toward people who say they townread my slot, though. ) I think I'll refrain from giving more reads until I actually finish reading everything. Would appreciate chesskid and Bins meta links so I don't have to do digging and can focus on reading 100 pages, though. This is tough so far because most people seem to be on completely different wavelengths and don't agree on who the obvtown are.

[Mina]

Oh, and I just realized xyzzy is the Aeronaut replacement. Maybe they're scum? I haven't actually read any of their posts yet, though!

[Mina]

Actually, Bins, do you scumread both chesskid AND Radja? Do you have no preference whatsoever for which of the two gets lynched today? Why do you want to go along with a 1v1 there? And would you be willing to lynch outside that pool?

(Sorry to everyone if I'm repeating questions that have already been answered, since I'm sort of posting about whatever catches my eye when I'm not caught up to get a feel for the game.)

[Mina]

Yes, but you're almost as old as I am!

I know I probably shouldn't be admitting this and should be all "ARGH SHEEP ME VOTE CHESSKID," but I am willing to concede I felt really bad about voting you for what amounts to, "You didn't actually do anything that scummy, but you just sound like a pod person who's replaced chesskid." (Well, your suspect list was sort of scummy.) I know those cases are really annoying to be on the other end of.

[Mina]

(As recent games as possible of both alignment would be nice.)

[Mina]

Oh, another I-haven't-been reading question: has the number of scum in this game been confirmed anywhere? I see Transcend/Titus talking as though there are confirmed 3 scum out of 15 and Radja (iirc?) as though there are four. I would have thought 4/15 was standard, since it used to be three Mafia for 12-13.

*goes back to reading*

[Mina]

Never mind, Fenchurch pointed me to the announcements thread.

You can just ignore that post when it comes to reading my alignment for now, because I never would have made that mistake years ago. >.<

[Mina]

the thing is i dont waffle on my reads when im scum

and you know this very well
i bussed extremely hard in the game we played together
i buddied extremely hard in the game i played with GL
and i bussed super hard in the game i played with A50 (the one maria modded)

i dont have the sort of stance i have on LLD if she were a scumbuddy
youre a meta guy, you can look this up

what im saying is if LLD were my partner, it would be scumBins tunneling her right now after the AtE
or scumBins hard defending her

not scum bins being like
"ooahh... maybe... er.... but can we do another slot instead.... meh..."

On the one hand, I'm generally a sucker for this kind of defence. But on the other, why are you emphasizing so much why you can't be scum with LLD when she hadn't flipped yet? (I can think of something, but I'd prefer hearing your explanation.)

[Mina]

Okay I read until page 35 and taking a break.
Current reads:

town

: Doodles, Dino

lean town

: CDB, T-Bone, UCV, Bulba, Elena
null: LLD, Aero, Keychain, Bins, Smocaine

lean scum

: Transcend

scum

: A50

The plan is to be caught up today.

My team disagrees on A50. Crumbing that you're town doesn't actually means you're town man. I mean wtf. You should know better than that. Try again.

So you have no explanation for why nyou're linking me to Bins/LLD/Elena? Noted.

Also no real explanation to scumread me either? Okay..

P-edit.

Was going to vote you but I'll read your new stuff first

The "you" in the second post is referring to Mathdino, right? What happened to change your mind from the first post?

Also, what are your teammates' thoughts right now?

[Mina]

While I'm at it...

Hey man, I already embarrassed myself by asking Reck for his LLD read. Don't rub it in

Can you elaborate on this? I missed the post where you said what his read was

Lmk if I should stop spamming the thread. It's just easier for me to make points as I see them rather than one giant wall at the end.

[Mina]

Just confirming something, we're allowed to discuss "which member on X team would have picked scum" and "so-and-so flipped town/scum so that changes the likelihood of them being a certain alignment," right? The rules seem to imply as much, but I don't want to pull a Mathdino.

(~p.80 now)

[Mina]

I guess I'd like as much of an explanation as is allowed by the rules from chesskid as to why you were the one to switch with Smocaine and not one of your teammates, particularly when you were on vacation.

Bins, can you tell me WHY the Smocaine slot was iffy? (There's a reason I'm asking!)

[Mina]

Still nowhere near finished reading, but quick points:

@Bins: I asked you about Smocaine being iffy because this seemed to be your final impression of him (although your ISO seems to be all over the place on that slot):

actually i think this is good because

smocaine was pretty town

so like just find scum and help sort this mess

What changed?

@Radja: people who hate Mafia represent! (This game has reminded me what I miss about Mafia is that I can be waaaaay more unfiltered here than in Survivor, though, because the game rewards rather than punishes you for it.) And do you know why Reck townread LLD? It felt like a bit of a weird read to me, because a while back, I'd checked in on this game out of curiosity after the force replacements and skimmed her meltdown posts, and even I was all, "I bet LLD is scum AtE-ing." (I definitely wasn't confident in it at all, but Reck seems like he'd know what she's capable of.)

Also, I apparently misread your posts mentioning your lynch pool, but did you not realize that the number of scum was confirmed to be three in each game until day three?

(Hi, Shea!)

There's something I need to confirm with a mod I'm actually allowed to talk about, also.

[Mina]

Sure, if you have them (also waiting on the Bins games, but she starts becoming town around page 100). I'm waiting on mhsmith to answer questions about, um, something I can't mention yet.

[Mina]

Radja and Dunkerdoodles meta links might be helpful--some people seem to be saying both are absolutely godawful as scum and thus are town here? But realistically, I won't actually get around to reading all of these!

[Mina]

(Ty, chess)

[Mina]

Chesskid, have your teammates been following this game at all?

[Mina]

Let me think of a way to format a big reads post as a fanfic once I'm finally caught up, just for him! Ten characters are hard to ship unless it's a giant orgy, though.

Also, when is the last time Katsuki has given thoughts, chesskid?

[Mina]

fuck you dino I just wasted 2 hours of my life on that case. I'm not doing it again. You don't want to hear what Shea wants me to tell you, I swear.
If you can't filter out the stuff you don't care about then fuck off. I'm done with this.

radja i'm also waiting on a complete paraphrasal of the conversation leading up to and after the D1 hammer

so the current things on your plate are
1. paraphrasal (tbh if you do this tomorrow i'm just gonna assume reck/shea/keely wrote it for you)
2. re-case

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

BYE

Sorry, but this interaction made me lol so hard.

I'm assuming this is where CDB's townread started? Radja, how easily do you get frustrated about the game? Would you say it happens regardless of your alignment?

[Mina]

My team talked me into posting the hammer conversation. I'm out now.
Had to get mod confirmation if it was okay to paraphrase from the discord channel directly. Got clearance.



Radja - Titus put me as null/scum after transcend posted that obvtownread. WEIRD
Reck - you should hammer fitz if he gets to L-1
Radja - ok
Cheet - If I reread this game, I think Titus might be my strongest scumread
Radja - I wouldn't mind fitz or Titus dying rn
Radja - fitz is at L-1
Cheet - How long before deadline?
Reck - Really?
Radja - yeah, Bulba just voted him. 1 day 9 hours left
Reck - QUICK HAMMER
Cheet - ehm
Radja - Should I?
Reck - yes!
Cheet - why? did fitz claim?
Reck - He'll get town credit if fitz flips scum and maybe gets nightkilled. Or if fitz is town can probably pin 2 scum on that wagon. Don't wanna deal with claims
Radja - Cheet, do it?
Cheet - he could be confirmable? I wouldn't...but I'm not much of a risktaker...so...
Radja - me neither. more like not at all.
Reck - If I was in the game and this was the LLD slot, I wouldn't think twice
Cheet- Up to you Radja, It'll make you really lynchable.
Radja - very
Cheet - you'll feel the effects of it for the rest of the game if fitz flips town.
Reck - If you get hear for fitz town, I can read people easier. I think math is going to gun for Radja anyway, so whatever? I know I play differently than you guys.
Cheet- LLD and Transcend are probably not both scum?
Radja - I don't know what to do.
Cheet - Titus scum means fitz is probably town?
Radja - If I knew I could talk my way out of a mislynch, I wouldn't be hesitating.
Reck - Don't think Titus is scum. She's easy to lynch. That's why I like the counterwagon
Cheet - Trancend looked like scum
Reck - LLD posts were ATE, don't like her reach out to me.
Radja - I could use more risks in my gameplay
Reck - one day left, don't want a flashwagon
Radja - hiplop, your thoughts?
hiplop - I'm behind, I thought titus was scum earlier. fitz would be my other guess. LLD looked like scum to me
Radja - ok I'll do it. I might get vigged?
Radja - I did it
Reck - ooooh
Radja - post the flip!

Torturing you all by posting the entire quote, because I found just one thing about this log iffy. Reck was

scumreading

LLD for her AtE? This is more what i would have expected from him, but weren't you saying he found her town before?

Don't want to conftown this slot mostly because I know Reck is good at faking PMs in Survivor according to OGML, but did none of this affect anyone's opinion on Radja? I feel like Radja's behaviour around posting the log reads as genuine, at least, even if we treat the log itself as fakeable (and it is a very realistic conversation with everyone very much in character and speaking off-the-cuff).

(Sorry AGAIN if my question is answered on the next page!)

[Mina]

Mhsmith, could you answer the PM I sent you when you get a chance? Thanks!

[Mina]

(Actually, I just saw it's been less than a day, so sorry for rushing you!)

[Mina]

It does not due to the

stalling

and logical inconsistencies.

Seems like Radja answered pretty quickly, no? Or am I missing how aggressively people were clamouring for the paraphrase before Mathdino's post? Half an hour seems reasonable to write a paraphrase and confirm it with a mod. Writing fake logs would probably involve a lot of team discussion and "that's so out of character for me, because I would say this" feedback.

But also, even if we treat the logs as fakeable, I can't see scum!Radja first reacting so angrily at having his work dismissed by Mathdino, but then abandoning his case on you so quickly and being so genuinely deflated at having the wind taken out of his sails--not when you were still a juicy mislynch option.

Pretty sure now that CDB was right about Radja, and also that Bins' team's reaction to the Radja kerfuffle was townish. That's awesome, since I had Radja as one of my suspects until then, so this game is either really easy or really hard. I'm starting to feel confident in a xyzzy+??? scumteam, although let me catch up with D3 first.

[Mina]

@chess, I'm getting there!

I'm starting to feel confident in a xyzzy+??? scumteam,

although let me catch up with D3 first.

Goddammit, if you're town, that disproves my "Katsuki ALWAYS insists I'm scum regardless of my alignment and then says it's because he can read me with 100% accuracy" theory. Please be scum so I can still feel superior to him!

[Mina]

I think the thing Katsuki wants to say is the same as ONE of the things I wanted to say. Yeah, I'm having second thoughts because of one thing. There's also another thing that I want to say, though.

^that better be okay, mhsmith, because I tried to ask you for permission!

[Mina]

I assume he can translate the first thing I want to say! The second has nothing to do with him.

[Mina]

Oh, I got the okay to post about it, since the two relevant games are over. Basically, there's one strong piece of evidence FOR chesskid scum, but another strong piece of evidence AGAINST it.

The second point, which is evidence FOR chess-scum...by "nothing like he usually is", this probably should have been obvious, but I meant, "nothing like the other Team Mafia game in which he just aggressively death-tunneled on two scumbags, switched with a lurker who was a lot more lively and aggressive in the other game, and then suddenly became really nice and reasonable and restrained the moment he got here. Am I taking crazy pills here? I was starting to get paranoid about aggressive bussing in singer's game because the difference seemed so stark. I'll admit chess gets better around the end of D2 and I only read parts of singer's game very superficially, so maybe someone will prove me wrong here.

The first point, which is something I only realized later on and is AGAINST Katscum, is that Katsuki is on his team and Katsuki is like LLD when it comes to scum. I can see a world where they tried to WIFOM people and give a scum PM to Smocaine only to switch really early on, but it seems more likely they'd swap Katsuki in. Unless, like, they thought chess had a better excuse, but this is starting to get convoluted and Occam's Razor.

[Mina]

Ugh, I'm so sorry, Titus. That's such a shitty thing to happen to your team because of one selfish immatute jackass.

At least we didn't lose a lynch because of Mathdino, but thanks for reminding me of why Mafia is terrible!

I want to keep my mouth shut on my reads for a bit longer, but xyzzy, do you have any suggestions whatsoever for who we should lynch if it's not you? Or even reasons you shouldn't be the lynch? I don't think your slot has done any real scumhunting.

[Mina]

Immatute jackasses are even worse than immature ones. <_<

[Mina]

TBH, I really don't care very much about xyzzy's D2 Bulbazak vote. But xyzzy, if you're actually town, do you think the most productive use of your energy right now is to keep defending your votes and explaining over and over and over again how it's not scummy at all to vote your number two suspect over your number one suspect at deadline? Do you have any suspects or reasoning for your suspect list? Any concrete observations at all from reading the game (which I assume you should have had more than enough time to do by now)? Like, literally

anything

?

[Mina]

DeasVail, Radja already covered a couple of questions I wanted to ask, but what I'd like to know is if your vote would be on Archwing if you had to choose between him and xyzzy. Your posts seem to imply as much.

(Also, omg, hi!!!!)

A very self-indulgent wallpost coming up--unless I lose focus in the middle since I'm out of practice, in which case a bunch of spamposts with fragmented thoughts coming up!

[Mina]

It was for DeasVail, but now I feel bad. Uh...it can also be for you if you want!

[Mina]

Wait, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I thought you were responding to the "omg hi!!!" The wall post is 33% for the town, 33% for me, and 33% for SleepyKrew.

[Mina]

...fuck. I just realized that half the players in this game are like fifteen, so the mods probably wouldn't appreciate a satire about a swinger's party in which I need to figure out which of the attractive guests have STDs.

*deletes fanfic*

Welp. I guess it's a boring reads list after all.

[Mina]

(Unless I make being featured in the fanfic opt-in and 18+ only! It makes me sad to waste the intro ;_;)

Anyway, the first reason I didn't want to give reads right away was to leave a counterwagon on chesskid so as to see whether xyzzy would be opportunistic and try to vote there (or a partner, but I feel like any xyzzy partner would have cut them loose by now). I was starting to really lose confidence in my chesskid scumread in the end, but thought a day in which xyzzy was the only and inevitable wagon wouldn't give any useful information.

The second is, um, more embarrassing, and is the tl;dr to this post:

Spoiler:

I kind of think everyone is town except for xyzzy. ._____.

I would normally feel bad about this, but if xyzzy is scum, that's one scum remaining in seven players (eight counting Titus from earlier). It means that although choosing a vote tomorrow will be hell, I can live with misreading only one person out of eight and letting them eventually get boxed in by PoE and role claims. If xyzzy is town, then it's time for panic mode.

Anyway, thoughts (although some of these players I should take a closer look at since I feel like I'm still at the superficial impression level):

-

Radja

both Patrick and I suspected...right up until the end of D2, where he basically dropped an atom bomb of towniness. I'm willing to hard-defend this read if necessary. I will say I'm a bit confused by the hard townreads from earlier in the game.

-

Keychain

has a sort of cautious and calculated style that tends to make me wary--good logic and reasoning =/= town. Patrick described her as almost too pristine for him to get a read on (I think Patrick is the only one on my team who's recently weighed in, aside from singer on Titus). But I feel as though that's more just her playstyle. Leaving aside that RC's interactions with LLD I think are pretty unlikely to be a bus (particularly now that I know my read on Transcend was right), I think she's done some thorough scumhunting that looks very genuine. I buy her thought processes and effort, I guess.

-

Bins

is like bizarro Keychain. My reasons for ultimately thinking she's town are basically the opposite of Keychain--I think her play is almost too messy to be scum in how blatantly she called attention to her interactions with LLD and how she's a bit all over the place sometimes. I didn't like her being all, "RC knows I'm awkward, I swear!" early on, but it matches with my limited experience of her Mafia play in F2F and being lynched D1. I also remember her being very townish D2--she made a lot of points I was thinking of (like about chesskid's play here vs. then-REDACTED) and has posts that feel like genuine scumhunting. A lot of stuff she does bothers me, though (Bins, when exactly did you drop your Radja scumread? Apparently, you had it even after all the town stuff that happened). I didn't like her reaction to being wagoned early on in the game. This is a very mixed bag read I'd delve into more another day and maybe do a meta dig, but I'm on the town side overall.

-Does anyone remember why CDB was so adamantly insistent

Bulbazak

is town in the end? I don't think he mentioned it in team Skype logs. I know he retracted his case based on Bulb's reaction, but he seemed Radja-level confident in it. Did I miss Radja-level towntells from Bulbazak? I was town-reading Bulbazak and really can't articulate it in any way other than a few of his posts sound like his genuine thought process. But some of his other posts felt more...closed off, if that makes sense. God, this is hippie shit. Some of his posts emit a positive aura, and some have a blocked-off chakra that is clearly a sign of a Mafia role PM! On my to-do list is to read the post from CDB.

-I haven't really looked much at UCV/

Archwing

, honestly. My main reason for liking the slot are the team reads, particularly since Creature supposedly wouldn't contribute as scum--that, and a lot of people vouching for UCV early on. Agree with DV some of the later team stuff looks pretty genuine. I guess it's not impossible he's scum from PoE, but I like his tone and nothing that bad popped out at me. This sounds kind of lame when I put it this way, so I guess maybe I'll just say "gut" or something and then run away. I do find it a bit weird I'm in their suspect pool but they haven't really engaged with me at all since I replaced in.

-I'm all over the place re: chesskid/

DeasVail

. I think chesskid did a good job of making me doubt that his play was actually that of a pod person, and his interactions with Katsuki were definitely real. He also does have actual town-sounding content. DV is all warm and fuzzy and I have no idea how to read him because he's so likeable and I want to send all my money to his Nigerian bank account, dammit. Patrick warned me that DV is strong as scum. His opening posts were really good, and his reads are also very aligned with mine.

-This is Team Mafia, and when every single player in the game and every single one of their teammates is insisting a player is 100% town based on their meta, I'm willing to assume that at least some of them know what they're talking about when said player is someone I've never interacted with before. I would probably NOT have a townread on

Dunkerdoodles

if I just saw him in a vacuum--he has like, a couple of somewhat genuine-sounding posts, but otherwise has really superficial opinions that don't seem very hard to fake at all. All I'll say is that be careful this isn't one of those reads where someone writes someone off for like the first two posts of the game, sheeping sets in, and everyone takes it for granted all game even once the slot starts coasting. If the players who know his meta and have townreads on him take a second look and are sure their initial impression is right, I'm willing to lock this read as town. So I'm glad that Keychain is at least questioning Dunkerdoodles.

-Already talked about

xyzzy

. I would have strongly considered voting them anyway solely out of PoE, but it's generally a major scumtell when someone puts lots and lots of energy into quibbling with every minor point to defend themself and very little energy into trying to solve the game. If xyzzy flips town here, I'll probably spiral into madness and have a breakdown because I don't know how to find two scum in a haystack.

[Mina]

I didn't even bother looking over that post to edit it because it's late, so I'm sorry if it's completely incomprehensible gibberish!

I should have stuck with the fanfic.

[Mina]

Oh, and

unvote

.

Not ready to put xyzzy at L-1 yet.

(Oh, and I gave up on the counterwagon plan because it had zero chance of actually working when xyzzy wasn't posting and I couldn't just never ever have thoughts again.)

[Mina]

On my to-do list is to read the post from CDB

Uh, this is gibberish because I got distracted mid-sentence. On my to-do list is to read the game Bulbazak has in his sig where he was apparently godly scum. But let's be real--I'll never get around to reading any of the meta that I actually planned on reading.

[Mina]

@Bulba: I'll be completely honest--I'm going in large part off vague holistic impressions rather than focusing on indivual posts, just because there's so much content I've missed that it's hard to retain it all in my head at once. I can ISO you at some point and actually link to what I mean, but it's really hard to articulate beyond "gut" and "sometimes, your thought processes sound town and genuine, and sometimes, they're just kind of clinical."

[Mina]

I thought sheep wasn't in TM anymore?

The fact that most of the active voices seem to be okay with lynching xyzzy is kind of odd to me.

I think I'm going to have to get Postie or someone to help me read DV/Mina. DV in particular is scarily nice in a way that makes it difficult for me to read him.

So far, I'm okay with the xyzzy lynch because there are only two scum left and 12-3 is an incredibly town-sided set-up, so easy PoE lynches are good when most of the town looks town and the scum are more prone to demoralization. I thought Mathdino's clearing of Aeronaut was pretty weak (because why would scum be following their scum PT if they weren't following their team PT?), and neither Aeronaut not xyzzy did anything that convinced me they were genuinely trying to solve the game (there were a couple of self-deprecating comments from xyzzy that I liked tonally, but no actual content). I feel like there aren't enough scum to cause movement away from xyzzy if they're scum, so their partner would be eager to throw them under the bus. But I'm still waiting for xyzzy to give me an actual reason to not vote them, since I've been told they're not a big contributor regardless of their alignment.

I think I'm actually a pretty easy read, but too late, I've already joined DV's cult. GLORY TO THE FOX! *buys a ticket to Parumbtu to live in his royal palace forever and ever* The Archwing vote is making me paranoid--not of DV himself, but of this game being tougher to solve than it looks.

[Mina]

...fuck!

Now I actually sat down and ISO'd Aeronaut/xyzzy, and Aeronaut sounds a lot more town than I remembered just from reading the whole game thread.

Well, I guess I now have no reads. Oh, well, it was fun having a direction while it lasted!

[Mina]

Yeah, I probably should have just kept the waffling on Aeronaut for my team Skype chat rather than posting about it in the thread. Sorry, I thought it was better to be as transparent as possible, but I forgot that's not always smart even as town.

@Bins (and @Patrick if you're reading this, since he also asked me): the posts that made me doubt myself were all Aeronaut's talk about paranoia and crackpot theories and reaction tests re:Titus (such as this and this). This sounds pretty lame when I put it like this, particularly since I can also see those posts as an attempt to shade Titus, but I guess I tend to associate that kind of reasoning more often with town. I'll be honest and admit I'm not feeling very confident on stuff anymore (which is why I hate playing Mafia!), but I think I'll just powwow with my teammates and come back when my head is on straight again.

[Mina]

VOTE: deasvail
a much more likely lynch target i somewhat scumread

Do you scumread DV for something other than his xyzzy interactions?

[Mina]

Bulbazak, are you saying Dunkerdoodles is scum and is voting DeasVail because he knows xyzzy is town?

Tbh, I read Dunkerdoodles' behaviour if he's Mafia as more likely from someone who knows xyzzy will flip scum than town, because he's voting someone literally for possibly being xyzzy's scumbuddy and setting people up for the next lynch based on their defence of them. But it's bizarre regardless of Dunkerdoodles' alignment.

If the people who've been insisting Dunkerdoodles has been obvtown all game have suddenly changed their mind, that would be helpful for me to know. I oscillate on which of my townreads has the highest likelihood of being wrong (and I'm thinking it might not be the best idea to say whom I'm most paranoid of right before night ), so although I'm getting a sinking feeling after the VT claim and last words, I'm not really willing to push another target now when it'd be a stab in the dark this close to deadline.

[Mina]

Dunker, who do you think is more likely to be scum, DeasVail or xyzzy? And why?

I have to confess, I've actually found DeasVail's content really town, although Patrick and I did agree with Dunker on finding the Archwing case a bit forced.

[Mina]

Sorry, I won't be much help, because I'm probably the worst person in the world to talk anyone down from being paranoid (hence why I haven't hammered). I think the only reason I'm not freaking out more is that I still have some emotional distance from the game as a late replacement (and am trying to keep it that way for the sake of my mental health!) The game definitely feels less clear-cut now, but I do feel like there's only so much one scumbag can influence wagons if his partner is lurking, and like I won't remove xyzzy from my suspect pool later on even if they outlive today.

That said, a counterwagon might not be the worst idea solely for the info. I'll probably still vote xyzzy over Archwing unless something really sticks out on a reread, though.

[Mina]

My impression from everyone else's reactions was that Dunker has weird logic as town and as scum, right? In that case, his DV vote could be a null tell. Are his tells more related to overall playstyle/intent? I'm relying 100% on secondhand meta here.

[Mina]

Uh...why do you want to switch from xyzzy to Archwing, Bins?

[Mina]

hi DV please be town

catch up later


but i sort of dropped the Radja scumread

What did I do to make you drop it?

Bins you didn't answer this. Please do

Also, answer this already while you're at it.

[Mina]

xyzzy is at L-1, also, so this is a weird post for you to make. Do you actually care who gets lynched between the two? I'd think you'd be happy your claimed top scumread is the one most in danger rather than throwing out how an Archwing wagon would be cool with you. Also, EXPLAIN THE RADJA FLIP DAMMIT.

[Mina]

Nvm, just saw 3622. But I really didn't like that your opinion only change AFTER a bunch of replacements came in and started calling Radja town. Before then, you didn't bat an eye at any of the hammer stuff and were happy to keep pushing the chess vs. Radja dichotomy.

[Mina]

No. Fuck you. This one isn't creative's game. If creature decides to throw in some input. I am happy to share it, but you will not force me to only talk about what creature says and thinks. Okay.

Now let me fucking scum hunt.

Also. What about mulch and sheep? Do they not matter.

Right now, I want to search for my own reads.

Hey, DeasVail. You're saying you haven't seen anything from UCV he couldn't do as scum? This post as well?

Also, just quoting these so it's easier for me to read them over and check for consistency:

Spoiler: Bunch of UCV/AW's team reads

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

ok


sheep says dino is meta town


mulch says to fuck off creature who is asleep right now because they live in Brazil. and have multiple other games to attend to

though team says he is townie. i slightly disagree. i have only played with him a few times, so

i could be wrong though

.

You completed a single town game with me. A geriatric. Micro. In which I replaced in after early-phase D1.

I don't know how you expect me to not be aggressive if you literally post and comment on other people while openly ignoring my questions.

What I'm asking is this: The thoughts that you said Creature had. Did they trickle in as the thread expanded? That is, WHEN did he give you those reads? Had he been reading the game as I requested of him BEFORE I had you ask him what he was thinking?

he had given them that day. i will have to ask what changes


why are you only caring about creatures reads?

I'm not asking you to have Creature read the thread literally this second.

I'm asking you when he has provided input in the past, and if he has been reading this thread.

I've twice requested specifically him to be reading this game.

) Elena is most likely to choose scum from her team 2) eddie succesfully pocketed someone 3) Mathdino's reads seem pretty good 4) We want eddie cane pushed but I'm not 99% 5) Keychain was scummy but then he thinks he must be misreading them 6) LLD is scummy 7) Early game called LLD, skirt skirt, keychain 8) bulba is town 9) almost50 is town cause playing like open 707 10) Bins is town 11) Dunkerdoodles feels town
all posted by creature



here

Hey Archwing, I'd like a paraphrase on all the notes creature has ever made about this game, with dates (no timestamps)

You're allowed to paraphrase things, just not quote, copy or paste

Not gonna let me ease into it, eh? fine.

k so, game started on 20th of Jan.
on 22nd creature wanted UCV to push LLD and skirt skirt.
early town reads on dunker bins and a50.
keychain looks bad, thus he makes the first scum team guess of {lld, skirt, keychain}
later (still 22nd) says must be reading keychain wrong.
keeps saying he wants eddie cane pushed.
thinks elena would most likely choose scum from her team
on 23rd, says skirt hasn't done enough for him to 180 flip read him
25th says {elena LLD transcend}
also thinks TBone doesn't pick scum and then lurk 'til lynched.
29th thinks bins being dino's top lynch is wtffff
thinks NSG and dino are the most likely people on your team to pick scum.
on the first of feb, thought about pushing chess for scum, then retracted and said stay on havingfitz.
6th of feb, thinks chess + CDB scum. keychain town, don't push the wagon.
A50's post 2053 has a solid case on chesskid scum.
and finally, CDB still looks bad.

[Mina]

Yeah, 312 and 2938 are 100% consistent with each other even though each player chooses different reasoning to highlight. Obviously, these aren't made up.

[Mina]

I probably should have waited for Bins to respond before posting that, but the response probably would have been something generic like "both are in my suspect pool, and I just want to be extra sure there's a lynch!" anyway.

Keychain, summary on why RC thinks Bins is town?

[Mina]

UCV's AtE here reminds me more of Radja flipping out over his case being ignored than LLD trying to make people bad about lynching her (which is more UCV's ATE in the scum game).

I don't want to fall into the trap of "UCV has a wildly different playstyle in this one game where he's scum, so he's town here!" but he's just a lot more natural here (his posts in the other game were a lot more theatrical and fake-helpful and full of exclamation marks, and Patrick agreed with me). And I know it's technically possible for team reads to be faked, but they feel organic. My only real doubt is that UCV's LLD thoughts sucked.

That game has definitely convinced me I should focus on chesskid's meta, though, because I have zero hope of catching you! :/ (Although you're warmer and fuzzier here.)

[Mina]

Dunkerdoodles, when did I become locktown?

I've been feeling good about Archwing being town after rereading the early game today. Aaaaaand I've been feeling like Bulbazak's paranoia around deadline is also very town!

And now I'm also feeling a lot better about Dunkerdoodles, so {xyzzy, DV, Bins} may actually be my pool. I'll need to do lots of rereading and ISOing past games tomorrow, though.

[Mina]

Also, while we're at it, when did Archwing become locktown? (I'm self-absorbed, as you can see. :p)

[Mina]

Btw, my team is on the same page as me. (Fenchurch is starting to read the game from the beginning and strongly scumreads Smocaine but townreads Bins so far; CES seemed to think it was DV/Bins and wanted me to push one of them before deadline, although he may have been ironic ; Patrick is leaning toward xyzzy/Bins as the team with DV as a dark horse candidate; singer can't read until Sunday.) They aren't completely caught up with everything yet, though, so may be partly influenced by which players I'm focusing on.

[Mina]

Bins' early D2 stuff made me townread her, so that's plausible, I guess.

While we're at it, Bins, you said like on Day One that Keychain can copy and paste her scum meta into her town games. What makes you clear her here?

I feel like I've been getting good info from the end of day, but FYI, I'll probably hammer tomorrow morning when I wake up unless someone wants me to wait on something.

[Mina]

(I mean, more, you've had Keychain as in the townbloc all game and completely above suspicion, so I was just wondering if you.

I'm a bit weirded out by how I managed to make "I'm having second thoughts on xyzzy" and then "I'm more sure Archwing is town" a meme, but I guess I shouldn't complain!

[Mina]

...uh, I forgot to finish my sentence. ._. I mean more if she did something that makes you confident she couldn't pull her play off as scum.