Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Titus]

Is there a list of resolutions? Like in the base game...

[Titus]

The German tanks are not subtle in their implications. The scholars wish to remind them that subtlety is the better form of valor at times. The rashness and impulsivity are not favored traits. If I picked up the implications then I doubt I am the only one that asks why you change your mind so erratically. I will see if I can work with you further without making the implications obvious.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Can we please avoid using words spuriously? Reading walls with no reads or point is very annoying.

[Titus]

Y'all honestly have no idea how good it feels to be in a game that I can keep checking on and actually see updates in. That said, ActionDan, mind explaining that one, or is it just rvs voting?

Do you have any thoughts or is this post just a waste of space itself? It's great you can give a compliment but how does this forward the game?

[Titus]

was going to excitedly vote for Bujaber for his post on Elbirn, but it no longer feels original. :<

Titus, why are you so desperate for everyone to be posting content and only content on page 2? we've barely started and no one's really being spammy. your complaints take up as much space as what you're complaining about.

let's have a chill game.

VOTE: Bujaber anyway.

pedit: well alright then.

being so close to a hostile neighbor who is insane and some would say as part of me prevents being chill. second, i don't care if content and only content but I don't want to see spam/non-sense that does nothing particularly while praising lack of spam or walling. Even jokes do something.

[Titus]

Chara why do you seem so interested in defending Gamma?

I seek to place an embassy in Action Dan's country.

[Titus]

Titus: i don't care about Gamma. i think Dan's reasoning was bad and brass following him on it worse.
i have noted your spin on the situation.

Dan's vote ninjaed my post for the same reason. All Gamma did was a filler wall. Does that make him lock scum 4ever? No. But I agree with Dan's approach and you seem paricularly close to Gamma by chainsawing all who don't like gamma. Don't know if it's AI but... :/

[Titus]

Dear Titus,

You can objectively disagree with a line of thoughts used to discredit another Nation regardless of the identity of the discredited Nation, keep that in mind.

Kindly,
Prime Minister of ******

Agreed. Shaizro for instance disagrees with the missive I sent to Germany. However, Shaizro does not attack me for the missive. That is what is puzzling about Chara. Chara seems particularly invested in protecting Gamma.

[Titus]

Dan: yes, actually.

brass: your timing did look like you were following it. what's scummy about the content?

pedit at Titus: that's really it. all he did was a filler wall. it's not an especially exciting bite. brass's vote was notable because it came after both you and Dan said you didn't like the post.

Joey: there's nothing objective about mafia. though, what exactly are you saying here?
also, why Varsoon?

It's RVS. I don't expect anything exciting but we get exciting things by watching hmmm isn't that interesting grow and see who defends. These are good patterns and something you should be familiar with by now.

You told me to kill, attacked Dan's reasoning and voted Brass.

@Joey, We are clearly not communicating. Your emissaries need retraining. There's not much suspicion on Shaizro just a minor annoyance. Does it not irk you that someone is defending so hard in RVS?

[Titus]

Also
I'm kinda considering Titus as a host pick

Your embassy request is accepted. I am not sure if I want to be host per the mod's recent directive as I am not sure how my resolutions will play out. I'd be glad to do it but early hosts might be more beneficial in someone who is skilled at mechanics and early game.

[Titus]

If we're thinking "mechanics" I'd probably pick Varsoon, do you agree Titus?

Yes, he makes great games but I need to talk with him a bit and see how he responds to Germany and Koichi. I lean town on Varsoon.

@Chara, I get most of my great games by prodding and going hmm incessantly. Who do you think should be host?

*embassy guards reduce to low alert on Chara*

[Titus]

Dan: yes, actually.

brass: your timing did look like you were following it. what's scummy about the content?

pedit at Titus: that's really it. all he did was a filler wall. it's not an especially exciting bite. brass's vote was notable because it came after both you and Dan said you didn't like the post.

Joey: there's nothing objective about mafia. though, what exactly are you saying here?
also, why Varsoon?

It's RVS. I don't expect anything exciting but we get exciting things by watching hmmm isn't that interesting grow and see who defends. These are good patterns and something you should be familiar with by now.

You told me to kill, attacked Dan's reasoning and voted Brass.

@Joey, We are clearly not communicating. Your emissaries need retraining. There's not much suspicion on Shaizro just a minor annoyance. Does it not irk you that someone is defending so hard in RVS?

Dear Titus,

My apologies, we never meant to implies that your Nation had anything close to suspicions regarding Shaziro. We meant to say that Chara used the same arguments to defend two differents nations, and thus is a proven behavior that is not only constrained to the Gamma Nation and thus, has more likely nothing to do with defending the Gamma Nation itself. Are we being clearer ?

Again, communication is our priority and we will try to do our best in the future. If subsequents issues should arrives we kindly demand to be contacted in quick fashion to rectify the situation.

Kindly,
Prime Minister of ******

Dear Star King,

I am afraid that the similarities you see I am not finding due to Chara being much more invested in Gamma.

I agree that if such an issue arises emissaries should be quickly and carefully dispatched.

*sends delegation*

@Almost50, Perhaps you did not read the rules?

[Titus]

blah. Titus is possibly town for this but i don't want to make a rash judgement. she can be a townread, though.

pedit: that's fair, i suppose. we are different players. applogies for bring up things in my last post.
i'm not sure who i want to host. i considered Varsoon but i don't love his Kokichi vote. though it's possible Varsoon just doesn't know Kokichi, as he's easy to scumread.

Shaziro hasn't actually done anything worth townreading, but i kind of want to anyway.
i wouldn't mind hosting. i'm not the best at mechanics but i can do well if i try.

I actually agree with the Koichi vote if we remove actions of other players. You seem to imply there is a personal quirk as to why not Koichi. Why is he so easy to scumread? Can he be easy to SR and scum?

[Titus]

HEAL: Almost50

No better place on the planet to host the congress. Trust me.

VOTE: Koki

One of those days I'm gonna guess your alignment right.

show me you're town and i'll consider it, Almost. though that isn't really your style.
talk to me about Kokichi? so far i haven't seen anything particularly AI from him.

Please for the love of goodness stop defending players you are not TRing. Let things go. Use the logic to lead you to others before getting your defenses up.

@Joey, Why do you think scum are called terrorists?

[Titus]

Wait I thought someone else was wanting me to be host.

Why would you want me as a host Gamma?

[Titus]

or the record, what i can actually see is Almost posting town Almost things. that doesn't really translate to him being town. ;>
but he does want to be townread, and that's interesting to me.

Waddaaa...?? You asked me to show you I was Town. OF COURSE I wanted to be TR'd by YOU, and from this player list you're about the only one who can actually see town me in that post (well, maybe Titus will.. maybe not, but nobody else will).

I suck at reading you.

Who wants to test something?

[Titus]

or the record, what i can actually see is Almost posting town Almost things. that doesn't really translate to him being town. ;>
but he does want to be townread, and that's interesting to me.

Waddaaa...?? You asked me to show you I was Town. OF COURSE I wanted to be TR'd by YOU, and from this player list you're about the only one who can actually see town me in that post (well, maybe Titus will.. maybe not, but nobody else will).

I suck at reading you.

Who wants to test something?

hit me

HEAL: Titus for host

Let's test this conversation.

[Titus]

A lot have said they want me. I want to see if it's true or anti Kochi talk. If so, what is the politics.

[Titus]

Breaking News: Nero Cain is the one who did the wrong-way association tell

?

@Brass, We can have both no?

[Titus]

@Ranmaru, Frankly, the gamma vote is ok. I am concerned about patterns. Kochi has the most votes to lynch yet players are not wanting to create a counterwagon for the host vote. One of the lead wagons is also highly likely to be scum due to wagon participation so I am reluctant to unvote.

I'm needing to see more things atm.

[Titus]

I'm heading to bed soonish. I'd like an answer from Titus and ActionDan when I wake up, and am willing to trade Spices and Silk for them. Pls accept trade agreement TIA.

I am kinda null on him atm. Gun to my head town for asking why my vote was on Gamma.

[Titus]

@Ranmaru, Frankly, the gamma vote is ok. I am concerned about patterns. Kochi has the most votes to lynch yet players are not wanting to create a counterwagon for the host vote. One of the lead wagons is also highly likely to be scum due to wagon participation so I am reluctant to unvote.

I'm needing to see more things atm.

Dear Titus,

Our Nation believe that you are forgetting this is a 21 player UN Council, there is much more variance than a 10p Council. The non-formation of a Counter-Host Vote is less indicative in said Council with a lower number of members.

Kindly,
Prime Minister of ****

Dear Joey,

Our nation will try not to be offended at your faux pas as I am a scientist of vote counts. Every VC tells a story. We just need the data to listen. I value vcs and mechanics as much if not more than diplomacy.

[Titus]

@Ranmaru hosts can repeat. You must use heal tag to vote for host. Once you do, it is locked.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Gamma

I like the thought of tied wagons until I get more time in a few days to do analysis.

[Titus]

@Brass, I think you should just say who the runner up should be for today. I like wagons as much as the next girl but given votes are locked and the active players have voted we could end up in a situation where town don't control it. Given you are mod confirmed town, it means only town select.

While I would prefer someone I TR, this is this best play for efficiency and to get back to scumhunting.

[Titus]

@Elbrin, why didn't you want to host? I'm still a bit unclear on that one.

As to who the runner up should be, right now I am actually leaning towards Joey_. I wouldn't be if he hadn't dropped the gimmick, though, but really, once you get around the gimmicky stuff he was doing early on, I like the actual thoughts. I just didn't like the gimmicks.

Dropping gimmicks on request isn't actually townie unless it gets in the way of a specific objective. So I disagree with that.

Is there anyone wagoned you'd want to be host?

[Titus]

ok lets go brass for leader then. i was hoping we could get someone who wasnt confirmed for the sake of info but a clear at least ensures were not being manipulated. so lets elect him and get to the vote

Backup host is still a thing.

@Brass, I recommend you pick one of the people talked about as leader for reactions. Say I'm considering X just to get reactions.

[Titus]

TOWN [Ranmaru > Chara > Joey > Marshy > Titus > Varsoon > Action Dan > Shaziro | Dunk > Almost50 > Kokichi > Gamma > Brass > Klazam > Buja > Joda > Pidgey > Assemble | Elbirn > Creature > Nero Cane] SCUM

Thanks for the free read on a guy you have never played with. But this might make you town since town is the only one who feels they need an opinion on EVERYONE.

That's frankly not true at all. Scum feel pressured to have content where it is too early all the time. It's an easier way to catch them.

[Titus]

Okay, let's discuss Elbirn.

He's a decent second, smart and I work well with him.

[Titus]

Elbrin doesn't want to be host (and I assume 2nd place too). Varsoon?

*extends Olive branch* I could do Varsoon.

[Titus]

Elbrin doesn't want to be host (and I assume 2nd place too). Varsoon?

*extends Olive branch* I could do Varsoon.

never knew we were at war?

We always disagree and you always want to lynch me so I suppose so. :/ Kinda sad but true. Especially with your signup comments which are NAI.

[Titus]

HEAL: Titus I have a good feeling about this slot.

Why? I just questioned you, you random vote to heal me while hardly engaging my substance.

[Titus]

HEAL: Titus I have a good feeling about this slot.

And this changes the math completely. I'm adding pidgey to my "Absolutely not" list for runner ups.

To be clear, this is not because I scum read pidgey, but I don't trust he will actually read enough to be leader after that.

+1

[Titus]

Gamma, you have no idea how to play mafia, so plz keep your opinions to yourself. You literally don't know how to play. You had to be taught by Titus. Enough said.

viewtopic.php?p=9275497#p9275497

Ouch why are you quoting this?

[Titus]

people who can go

nero
gamma
almost50
klazam
creature

im town ama

why is this a list of popular wagons only?

[Titus]

VOTE: Klazam
I am curious. I will follow Varsoon for now.

[Titus]

Here's my issue with a pidgey scum claim based on that vote. While I was upset at first and I overreacted as well, that's on me, the only possible way that I can see scum really benefitting from it is if (a) he knew that the vote would limit us to three possible runner ups, and (b) at least two of the three possible runner ups are scum. (Again, assuming I end up as the host, which seems to be the general consensus despite a few of the non-committed votes being absent.)

I just am not willing to make both of those assumptions to jump to scum!pidgey.

Also, A50 is sus himself.

I'd tailor b) to that the three people predictable would benefit scum not that they'd be scum themselves.

Also A50 showing when Klazam gets a wagon is noted.

[Titus]

Since my post seems to have been lost to the internet ether. Kokichi is both a scumlean for me and in my view, a bit of a wild card. Even if he was townlean from me, I don't want someone who is as unpredictable as I have seen him be.

Now I'm glad you'll likely be N1'd. I've caught you when you were obvious scum before. Do you find my game different than the one you replaced out of when I caught you as scum?

Wooooow way to be a massive dick! He had work you asshole, and that was stated there I believe.

+1, This guy cannot be a leader.

[Titus]

Since my post seems to have been lost to the internet ether. Kokichi is both a scumlean for me and in my view, a bit of a wild card. Even if he was townlean from me, I don't want someone who is as unpredictable as I have seen him be.

Now I'm glad you'll likely be N1'd. I've caught you when you were obvious scum before. Do you find my game different than the one you replaced out of when I caught you as scum?

Wooooow way to be a massive dick! He had work you asshole, and that was stated there I believe.

+1, This guy cannot be a leader.

How does being a jerk make somebody a bad WC Host?

It shows either a) they are scum seeking to be the only opinionlistened to or b) they'll personally attack town to achieve their own personal objectives. A lack of a cooperative mindset is terrible for a leader.

[Titus]

I still think Gamma is likely a comrade in arms to the town right now. I'm at least townleaning, but there seems to be a disagreement.

If we aren't going to finish setting up the World Congress today and getting a totally awesome resolution to be voting on, then, I would like to discuss Mr. Emerald and see if we can come to a meeting of the two factions, say an East and West that seem to have some wall between them.

Have you decoded my crumbs yet or is this just really lucky that you said this

I figured it out pretty early in the day yesterday, I have honestly been waiting to see if anyone else called it out.

I may have been a little too on the nose here.

I have not but I am horrible with crumbs so I haven't even tried.

[Titus]

Nothing is scummy about jockeying for votes on a wagon normally, but it could be, circumstantially, and definitely in the face of making the IC world congress leader.
But you get my point, yeah?

i get your point that townies cannot be cleared off of scum lynches

i dont get your point about me being the worst on the wagon. like do you think im just gonna say "oh yeah youre totally justified to push a townie cuz of multiball spec"?

lol this guy once again

in other news i am getting really anxious for a50 to flip but i do enjoy the klazam wagon.

first world problems man

In any other game I'd ignore this but it feels like a soft

Why highlight perceived softs?

[Titus]

Nothing is scummy about jockeying for votes on a wagon normally, but it could be, circumstantially, and definitely in the face of making the IC world congress leader.
But you get my point, yeah?

i get your point that townies cannot be cleared off of scum lynches

i dont get your point about me being the worst on the wagon. like do you think im just gonna say "oh yeah youre totally justified to push a townie cuz of multiball spec"?

lol this guy once again

in other news i am getting really anxious for a50 to flip but i do enjoy the klazam wagon.

first world problems man

In any other game I'd ignore this but it feels like a soft

Why highlight perceived softs?

To be fair to Gamma, I did just basically reveal to everyone that I have figured out his nation.

Going through ISOs, I know 3 for sure, one I am pretty sure was not a lie.

Then there are 2-4 that I have a guess on for nations, but this is important only because I think I may have found that we do have a delegate from India.

Why is important to out this as roles could link to civs?

[Titus]

Hi everyone!

Hi Chara, hi Titus, hi Varsoon, hi Kokichi.

I’ll be V/LA next three days so I won’t be able to post. Will read when I get the chance to, though.

Hey! Glad to see you!

[Titus]

@Kokichi Oka, I have felt a general pattern of you trying to push for control and dominance early, even against confirmed town. I am trying to understand your objective in this and what you are seeking to do. It feels rather desperate, which seems odd for any day 1. What is it you were hoping to achieve day 1?

[Titus]

@Kokichi Oka, I have felt a general pattern of you trying to push for control and dominance early, even against confirmed town. I am trying to understand your objective in this and what you are seeking to do. It feels rather desperate, which seems odd for any day 1. What is it you were hoping to achieve day 1?

This is such a weird question. Are you asking me why I want to be in control and trust myself over others?

Not just being in control but why do you disparage others to do so. Why do you seek power over confirmed town? Why do you feel that Creature is good over Klazam? Why do you seem to ignore what isn't directly relevant to what you are pushing?

In short, what is your agenda?

[Titus]

I lost my wallet and Ive been dealing with stupid Real Life stuff. Gonna try to catch up later today.

We gotta name brass Leader of this thing so we can focus solely on scum hunting by tomorrow, pretty sure everyone agrees on that?

Brass leader

Me Elbrin or Kokchi secondary

[Titus]

@Kokichi Oka, I have felt a general pattern of you trying to push for control and dominance early, even against confirmed town. I am trying to understand your objective in this and what you are seeking to do. It feels rather desperate, which seems odd for any day 1. What is it you were hoping to achieve day 1?

This is such a weird question. Are you asking me why I want to be in control and trust myself over others?

Not just being in control but why do you disparage others to do so. Why do you seek power over confirmed town? Why do you feel that Creature is good over Klazam? Why do you seem to ignore what isn't directly relevant to what you are pushing?

In short, what is your agenda?

1. I don't play down. Who have belittled out of you or Elbrin? (Except when you just made that scummy post and did the same to me.) I made an argument that IC shouldn't be WC leader that's all.

2. Creature is a meta read and he's posting elsewhere and avoiding this game. He's scum for sure.

3. I haven't been ignoring anything, I have the most posts in the game. I've been in every discussion. The only one I don't like is setup spec which is silly to do when we haven't even voted on WC or seen flips or night deaths. Why are you misrepping me? It seems like you're more worried about me being in WC over you, based on your posts. Not the other way around.

1. You've utterly ignored the points against Klazam and the Creature points too.

Second, the IC is the only confirmed town in the game, thus intuitively should be the Host. The fact you argued against that when town should be uninformed dictates that I call you out and determine just what your goal is.

2. Great, Creature lurks all the time. I don't see his crossout lists he likes to do. Yet meta is hot garbage.

3. If you've been in every discussion then why is your stance on Klazam so murky and why do you insist on Creature being the lynch only AFTER Klazam takes off?

4. You've mentioned me being afraid of you being leader. That's pretty accurate when you place yourself above confirmed town. You place your methods as the only ones that have value. You dismiss Varsoon's scumhunting rather than engage him.

So what are you trying to do here? At best, you get the power you seek and die and town has nothing to work from, no cohesion due to lack of respect. At worst, you're scum trying to center the game on yourself and stop town cohesion. Nothing good can come from seeking power early unless you have a specific thing to investigate (like the early VCs). You seem to have an agenda, but I can't see what your endgame goal is. So I am being blunt.

Just what do you think you are accomplishing by your me first attitude?

[Titus]

This Titus v. Kokichi thing really makes me want to thrust the mantle onto Elbirn and laugh as the town does what town does best and screws over three people at once.

I would be fine with that. I put my hat in the ring to test reads and reactions, not so much to be host myself as I am better late with data.

[Titus]

Titus

: Why aren't you working with me or interacting with me at all? Why do you follow Varsoon on Klazam? What's your read on Marshy and Gamma?

The first can be fixed. I was busy at the times you were on. I like more immediate interactions.

I followed Varsoon because I largely agree with what he says on Klazam. He outlined clear scum motivations and deliberate attempts to avoid the spotlight. It's as good a place as any, especially for someone seeking to avoid my bad habit of d1 tunnelling.

Marshy is rather new, so I kinda don't have a baseline to read him off. He's a decent investigation choice.I need to see if he was on the brass wagon from before.

Gamma, my gut says lean scum for early but it's improved. His recent posting has much more content and I feel more like he could be prime mislynch material like in the last Mafiauniverse game we played...I think it was assassin's creed but my memory fails.

[Titus]

blah. i've typed and retyped this enough. Titus, could you find somewhere else to focus? i think you're both town and that Kokichi's style is just one that grates on you. by all means continue your discussion with him but i don't know if i see it going anywhere based on this.

pedit: i'd rather Elbirn was not the host.

I just want him to lay his cards on the table. If he's town, it helps me work with him better. If he's scum, his moves become easier to counter. Either way, he bdcomes easier to sort. By doing this now

before any resolutions should be known

I can avoid conflating finding his power seeking agenda versus the actual resolutions.

[Titus]

[6] brassherald: Nero Cain (1), Shaziro (1), Chara (1), Jodaxq (1), ranmaru (1), ActionDan (1)
[3] Kokichi Oma: Kokichi Oma (1), Dunkerdoodles (1), Joey_ (1)
[3] Elbirn: Elbirn (1), Bujaber (1), Varsoon (1)
[3] Titus: Titus (1), marshy (1), pidgey (1)

Of the wagons with 3 delegates, I prefer Titus.


not voting: Kiana Kaslana (1), brassherald (1), Creature (1), Gamma Emerald (1),

Both Brass and Gamma should vote Titus putting her at 5. Kiana can vote Brass meaning Creatures lone vote won't affect anything and thus we should get our resolutions by then.

Its already getting close to 50 pages. Let's get this show on the road.

How do you feel that i town circle your ass??

I like this plan. Elbrin also fine.

[Titus]

I agree. Stalling the host vote is not like stalling a lynch. There is no town motivation when we have a clear host. Someone is waiting for something. And that would suggest one of the runner ups is scum or scum are hoping we lynch before congress.
In the 2nd scenario it probably means klazam is town.

Unfortunately there is the possibility that real life is interfering and all of what I said is void but that's a factor in every game. I kind of expect people who sign up to a large game to have a plan for catching up reasonably frequently.

+1

Klazam being town isn't ruled out for me. I do find it wierd my scumreads have a habit of calling me town.

[Titus]

Creature and Kiana sneak your votes for me. Let's make this Civilization great again.

See--that's why I don't trust this guy.[merged with next post]

I concur. He's acting like he knows better than everyone and seeking power than teamwork. Really turns me off from a Creature lynch.

[Titus]

[7] brassherald: Nero Cain (1), Shaziro (1), Chara (1), Jodaxq (1), ranmaru (1), ActionDan (1), Gamma Emerald (1)
[3] Kokichi Oma: Kokichi Oma (1), Dunkerdoodles (1), Joey_ (1)
[3] Elbirn: Elbirn (1), Bujaber (1), Varsoon (1)
[3] Titus: Titus (1), marshy (1), pidgey (1)

Of the wagons with 3 delegates, I prefer Titus.


not voting: Kiana Kaslana (1), brassherald (1), Creature (1).

Both Brass and Gamma should vote Titus putting her at 5. Kiana can vote Brass meaning Creatures lone vote won't affect anything and thus we should get our resolutions by then.

Its already getting close to 50 pages. Let's get this show on the road.

Adjusted for accuracy. Creature and Kiana left, but seeing as how Kiana is catching up and may not be back until tomorrow/Friday and Creature is doing whatever he was doing.

HEAL: for host = Titus

Kiana should also cast a delegate for Titus I believe.

Gamma already cast his vote, and I don't know what Creature is doing.

Thank you.

[Titus]

Marshy is rather new.

>looks at my joindate
>looks at titus

these kids never show respect

Saw this when trying to reread you for Ranmaru. Sorry you feel that way. You're new to me though. I do like your cards on the table style and initiative on WC but would love more iniative on leading wagons. Yet this seems to be a problem everywhere.

[Titus]

I think Ran is just bad town or, if Varsoons multiball spec/calculated slip turns out to be right then he's maybe Not Chara scum. Of that list I feel like Chara is the best flip though. I still feel like Gamma sheeping your logic was a scummy parrot. Him getting all ticked off is something that I could maybe see from town but I could also see it from scum...so I guess its null. *shrugz*

Don't really like Klazam stopping in the middle of hi catchup.

You know what just fuck you. You're not actually listening to my logic, you're just pushing the same line of bullshit over and over.
VOTE: Nero Cain
Thunderdome time.

I don't want a thunderdome. If you think he's scum, pepper him with reads questions instead. Get him to reveal his teammates via his reads or actions.

[Titus]

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

I don't get how people can interpret Creature this strong when other players are acting wierd. I get the feeling Creature is being sold as a lynch and may not be good. I don't know he's town and if that's what the majority decides so be it. But the confidence on this lynch feels snakeoily when people have real life as town too.

[Titus]

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I think this should lock the WC hosts. Then Kiana can vote Brass.

[Titus]

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I think this should lock the WC hosts. Then Kiana can vote Brass.

wat

Brass was locked as primary so all good. Was concerned with Brass and I being tied that I would become primary over him.

[Titus]

Brass is at 7, you're at 5, one delegate remains

I thought he was 5. I misread.

[Titus]

You know what all these posts I want to talk about are over 500 posts old it doesn't even matter anymore. The game starts now, fuckoff.

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I'm not following your train of thought here. You're saying one of the wagons is on scum, why exactly? Frankly I'm not much inspired by either of them, Nero hasn't pinged me and Creature has done literally nothing. He's a "Play the game or begone, thot" kind of lynch.

At least 1. There's too much counterwagoning for at least 1 wagon not to be scum protecting their own. If Varsoon's multiball theory is accurate, maybe two.

[Titus]

The list of resolutions is in, I asked the mod for confirmation of whether I am allowed to discuss the contents as I do not want to be modkilled for violating rules.

Correct. I do think there's one I think I should do to you but it may backfire if I misunderstand it. Do you see what I see?

[Titus]

Answer is we can share contents, but not the actual quotes. I, unfortunately do not currently have the time to actually sit down and paraphrase the resolutions I have. But, Titus, I believe the Congressional Peacekeeping on me may be your best move. Feel free to summarize what you can in my stead and I will add anything I feel needs adding should I feel that.

I concur. It should either jail or roleblock you. The former is best. The latter is neutral but useful to know.

[Titus]

You know what all these posts I want to talk about are over 500 posts old it doesn't even matter anymore. The game starts now, fuckoff.

Looking at the wagons, at least 1 is probably scum. Too much investment otherwise.

I'm not following your train of thought here. You're saying one of the wagons is on scum, why exactly? Frankly I'm not much inspired by either of them, Nero hasn't pinged me and Creature has done literally nothing. He's a "Play the game or begone, thot" kind of lynch.

At least 1. There's too much counterwagoning for at least 1 wagon not to be scum protecting their own. If Varsoon's multiball theory is accurate, maybe two.

[4] Nero Cain: BuJaber, Shaziro, Ranmaru, Gamma Emerald
[5] creature: Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Almost50, Chara, marshy
[4] Klazam: pidgey, Varsoon, Titus, Jodaxq

So these are the wagons right now. If you're voting Klazam, would I be correct in assuming that you believe that either the Nero Cain or Creature wagons are scumdriven? Even if we forget about multiball for a moment, do you think one of those two is a scum supported counterwagon to Klazam?

Correct but to be intellectually honest it could be scum buddying me as well. The VCA is independent of my accuracy of my reads.

[Titus]

I think we should avoid the permanent resolutions until we get more information.

There is the issue of luxuries.

Also we can prevent players from self delegating or being a WC host.

[Titus]

Answer is we can share contents, but not the actual quotes. I, unfortunately do not currently have the time to actually sit down and paraphrase the resolutions I have. But, Titus, I believe the Congressional Peacekeeping on me may be your best move. Feel free to summarize what you can in my stead and I will add anything I feel needs adding should I feel that.

I concur. It should either jail or roleblock you. The former is best. The latter is neutral but useful to know.

I'm leaning towards jail because we cannot perform this on consecutive days. I would speculate that this part was added specifically to counteract me revealing day 1, then continually getting someone to Protect me with that resolution.

Makes sense. That's my thought as well.

[Titus]

I don't like the idea of barring people from WC hosts. As down the line we may have inno reports on people who were scummy.

The prevention of being WC host cannot be done multiple days.

[Titus]

can you guys list out everything in one post? i see several and i want everything on the table

jailkeep brass

are you guys told what banning/making those resources do and whom it affects? cuz it might b good to empower ppl if thats available

WE are given vauge descriptions and we are assuming what they do.

[Titus]

I've done my part, Titus, I would suggest you do the same, and lets get to delegate voting.

I will asap.

[Titus]

I've done my part, Titus, I would suggest you do the same, and lets get to delegate voting.

I am leaning towards

1) Peacekeeping Brassherald
2) Sciences funding
3) Embargo Kokchi

[Titus]

I'm cool with a ban on gold, for what it's worth.
Dunno what 'peacekeeping Brasherald' is but that's probably a good thing.
Dunno what 'Sciences funding' is, but seems like it'd benefit certain players and hinder others like it does in the video game so eeeeh.
Everything about 'Embargo Kokchi' sounds good to me!

Also,

Spoiler: For Elbirn:

Wow! I didn't think people remembered my old games. Though, I thought for sure you were gonna conjure the trust-tell stuff I did since I've been saying I'm scum here.
Anyway, we are soul brothers and it's cool if you don't trust me or whatever. If you're scum, just convince your team not to kill me, k? Thanks~~
I really do think you're town, though, and my setup spec is genuine work here, too. I hope I'm right on both fronts.

I think we might as well ban a luxury but I would be worried about Koichi playing mind games.

[Titus]

I have 1 mod question and I will likely submit this evening.

[Titus]

Why in the world would Brass think I'm scum?

I don't know. :/ I happen to think you are town.

[Titus]

Why in the world would Brass think I'm scum?

Reaction fishing.

I put my top choice as ban silk, then arts research, then ban crabs. I was just driving home in a blizzard so couldn't say before

Did you have to put in a specific player for arts funding?

[Titus]

There is people that might have info on Gold that we can have a discussion about. Her picking Embargo over it is weird as hell.

Players pushing Gold is information. That's why I announced rather than just doing it. Any particular reason why you feel Gold needs to be banned in particular?

[Titus]

I've done my part, Titus, I would suggest you do the same, and lets get to delegate voting.

I am leaning towards

1) Peacekeeping Brassherald
2) Sciences funding
3) Embargo Kokchi

We submit 3 choices. Brass is number 1.

Embargoing me is a scumclaim. You need to Peacekeep Brass right now.

[Titus]

I'm cool with a ban on gold, for what it's worth.
Dunno what 'peacekeeping Brasherald' is but that's probably a good thing.
Dunno what 'Sciences funding' is, but seems like it'd benefit certain players and hinder others like it does in the video game so eeeeh.
Everything about 'Embargo Kokchi' sounds good to me!

Also,

Spoiler: For Elbirn:

Wow! I didn't think people remembered my old games. Though, I thought for sure you were gonna conjure the trust-tell stuff I did since I've been saying I'm scum here.
Anyway, we are soul brothers and it's cool if you don't trust me or whatever. If you're scum, just convince your team not to kill me, k? Thanks~~
I really do think you're town, though, and my setup spec is genuine work here, too. I hope I'm right on both fronts.

I think we might as well ban a luxury but I would be worried about Koichi playing mind games.

Why banning luxuries when we don’t know what they do/mean? I dont get it

Aside from Peacekeepers, we have zero ideas of what anything does. Banning a luxury gives us an idea.

[Titus]

What if the gold has something to do with Koki's role? Like I could see town react that way too.

It may. Kokchi has acted like this the entire time telling rather than listening though.

[Titus]

Im gonna stay out of this whole debate because I have no clue as to any of the topics we've talked in the last 4 pages and it really won't matter regarding scumhunting for at least another game day.

IMO as diplomatic as brass is being, as the only confirmed town he should just do what he feels is the best for his protection, and let's move past this.

Correct. As not confirmed town, I sought discussion on my choices.

[Titus]

Brass are you cool with my submissions?

[Titus]

I strongly disagree eith embargo kokichi even at third place @titus. In the offset chance that mafia can play with the picked resolution order or something it’s bad because we don’t get town info and if you actually peacekeep successfully, brass should be alive tomorow and so theres worries that a koichi get wc if its not what the clear wants.

Can you rephrase this? I wanna take your opinion into account but I do not understand.

[Titus]

Brass are you cool with my submissions?

Yeah, I am at this point.

Banning an assumed scum luxury wont give info to town btw

This isn't a flat out ban, we are just proposing something to vote on. So, we put it to the delegates which will be cast in here.

Ohh i see, forgot the voting part. Im down with titus peqcekeeping you + testing a luxury then

Yeah and we aren't even debating the permanent ones that deal with wonders. We don't know enough.

[Titus]

Wouldn't it be better to know what embargo did with a large number of players alive though?

[Titus]

Wouldn't it be better to know what embargo did with a large number of players alive though?

Maybe! But im def biased here because i hard townread kokichi

I love the honesty and I'll reflect on it. The resolution can always be voted down too if it's too bad to use on anyone but conf scum.

[Titus]

Wouldn't it be better to know what embargo did with a large number of players alive though?

Maybe! But im def biased here because i hard townread kokichi

Is your townread on Kokichi or Nero harder?

Also, Titus, switch the embargo to Dunkerdoodles, let's try someone who is likely not going to be hanged today, but has not inspired so much disagreement.

I'm thinking Embargo is uselss if done on someone who isn't even here and generated no conflict. Dunker isn't going to be elected tomorrow and the time expires. I'm concerned about the eventuality that what we think happens with Peacekeeper doesn't happen and Koichi runs over the thread because I can't babysit 24/7.

[Titus]

If you disagree with the choices Titus makes today, vote against her resolutions and convince everyone to put someone else in these positions tomorrow.

No, now you're just trying not to take blame if it's wrong. Can you tell me what the harm of advancing and having gold on the discussion is? Why wouldn't we want to advance and why wouldn't we want to have Gold as a discussion for banning?

Tomorrow, if I am around, Gold ban will be suggested. I would rather save that one for night 2, when people would presumably have earned some gold and would be looking to spend it.

I'm not trying to avoid the blame, again, if people feel that I have been wrong, let them not vote me to host tomorrow. Hell, I'll say right now, I think Joey_ or Nero are good hosts. We're going to be held accountable just like any politician.

Fine, but I just disagree with this. It's likely mafia has to use gold for something. And it's likely they will use it N1.

Then we'll know what it is and save ban gold for later.

[Titus]

Funding art could be fun no? It applies to everyone so we cant really screw the town that much

Brass is already submitting that

[Titus]

I say we up the buff for Brass, yeah. Like the fact that Titus didn't even bring it up as a suggestion is shady.

That's my number 1 and you've said that repeatedly that jailkeeping Brass is not my priority. Stop the nonsense.

[Titus]

I agree with that. Okay, then Titus should have you peacekeeping as #1 and we should boost someone's science who we townread and ban gold.

Except for ban gold, I am right there. That's why my submissions are the way they are.

Do you think we should science boost brass?

[Titus]

@Varsoon, Do you think I should science boost brass myself elbrin or you?

[Titus]

@Varsoon, Do you think I should science boost brass myself elbrin or you?

Do the science boost on Nero Cain.

Nero is a major wagon... :/ So I won't do him.

[Titus]

@Varsoon, Do you think I should science boost brass myself elbrin or you?

Did brass not say that science is a town wide buff?

Prove you're town and the science buff should be you

Go on.

Do it.

Dance a jig for me or something

Ok, I take it you don't want it. :/ This is harder than I thought. All my good targets don't want it.

[Titus]

@Varsoon, Do you think I should science boost brass myself elbrin or you?

Do the science boost on Nero Cain.

Nero is a major wagon... :/ So I won't do him.

Nero should not be a major wagon.

Yes but he is and I'm not putting my own reads above everyone else. The resolution will be available tomorrow so we can do Nero if he shows himself town to others.

[Titus]

Does anyone else have any input? I'm leaning towards sciencing Varsoona atm. I have 4 hours.

My other options are brass (seems not to want it), Elbrin (same), me (drama causing) and Varsoona.

I am looking at consensus town only.

[Titus]

Sent. So let's see what things do.

[Titus]

HEAL: Peacekeeping: Brassherald

That is done. Anyone voting against Healing Brassherald is scum.

Everyone can now debate silk. I have no stance on that issue.

[Titus]

HEAL: Yay: peacekeep brassherald
2/12
Pedit: how am I all over the place

We don't need the additional votes if this is like Civ 6. Just more yesses than nos.

[Titus]

Why is ban silk even on the table?

I still could not get a straight answer about what the science boost would have done (town buff or one player buff) and then Titus picked a luxury that wasn't even discussed if I'm not mistaken?

Titus why did you not science buff one of your suggestions?

I did.

Ban silk is something we are looking at to see what it does.
We don't know precisely what the science buff does, so we cannot give a straight answer. The vague non descript statements are all what we get.

[Titus]

Science appears to boost 1 player. Arts all.

[Titus]

I did not pick any luxuries. Ban silk is Brass's submission.

[Titus]

HEAL: Yay: peacekeep brassherald
2/12
Pedit: how am I all over the place

We don't need the additional votes if this is like Civ 6. Just more yesses than nos.

Its all your fault that I look like an IDIOT

Totally. Everything is always my fault. I'll take credit for your smart comments too. [/joke tone]

[Titus]

[Congressional Peace-keeping ~ brassherald] - The world is full of unforeseen threats. Assign delegates supporting or opposing a player in need of Congressional peace-keeping armies in their nation. A player may not assign delegates to themselves.

This resolution may not be enacted consecutively

.

maybe we shouldn't use it today?

We should.

[Titus]

I'll be out most of the day. I will catch you guys later.

[Titus]

Or we just end the day? It would take a massive suicidal vote shift to stop either initative. I don't think the Creature lynch will be correct but I feel like the game will stall if we don't flip him. :/

[Titus]

I'm not ready for a lynch yet. We have over a week and two slots other than Creature. One has not posted due to internet problems, the other leaves VLA today. I want to wait. If you want to end the day with a lunch, go for it but I want to see what Kiana has to say as well as Joda

Me too but if there's no chance they'd change things are we listening or going through the motions.

[Titus]

yeah this day has outlived usefulness.

VOTE: Creature

[Titus]

My best bet is that there is a Town religion spreader, a Mafia religion spreader who has no win condition involved, and then a Mafia religion spreader who -does- have a win condition for their team involved, or possibly a team of like 2. That would mean that they could spread equally fast to the other two, in fact, and since the other two couldn't coordinate it would be in favor of the two who could. Makes their objective to find and kill the other religion spreaders while still spreading their religion, makes for an interesting mechanic, and is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to see in a Civilization Mafia theme game.

ALSO: Fuck everyone who said I was reaching when I made comparisons to the Prostitute role and the banning silk, not only did the fucking flavor for that ban being enacted mention sex workers, but CREATURE WAS A MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER WHICH IS ALSO CALLED A PROSTITUTE. 10/10 predictions, let's go!

Idk the religion victory condition you described sounds like it would work for a 3p as well.

Shaizro is likely red scum. His anti-ban silk and assumption about Mafia RB and vote pattern reek.

[Titus]

HEAL: x2 Brassherald

Anyone who said "Give creature a couple more days" is probably NOT scum with him.

Chara that post you quoted is clearly Elbirn crumbing targetting Gamma.

Elbirn was probably a NK regardless.

Almost50 speccing multiball early is NAI.

I'd imagine at least one same color scum bussed Creature because you have to when his meta is to sabotage his scum games for the sake of his town games.

Portugal generally goes for diplomatic victories. Even so, the victory themes here might be important down the road. We'll see!

Why? I know I was in the crowd of not lynching Creature but I'd at least harrass me.

Is there a guilty on A50?

[Titus]

Look, lets figure out one thing at a time, Who do we want in the WC?

We figure this out first and then move on to a lynch discussion.

I would propose Shaziro, but Shaziro being away for totally understandable issues might be an issue.

P-Edit: Nero stop being a douche.

I think that's a non starter. I'd take literally anyone else. Even the power hungry Koichi.

[Titus]

VLA Until Sunday

My birthday is tomorrow.

[Titus]

nero I want to see your flip to decide on a few things including whether you v gamma is TvS or TvT.

thats a pretty piss poor reason to "scumread" me.

Yes. People generally do have piss poor reasonings. Merely dismissing them generally has the inverse effect.

[Titus]

Joey, is Bujaber scum for trying to force a town read on Dunk by claiming he was the same role as koki?

He is 100% Scum with Creature, yes

. And he will now stop posting and replace out (a tactic he uses when he's scum and under pressure, and I'm wondering what happened to the "tactical scum replace out are prohibited and will get you banned" rule)

Just to be honest here. The bolded still stands IMHO. The rest I was mixing BuJ with someone else.

Why is Bujaber red scum as opposed to orange scum?

[Titus]

Why? I know I was in the crowd of not lynching Creature but I'd at least harrass me.

I suppose that's fine to do (I mean I won't) but everyone knows scum creature just gets lynched D1 and taking on the attitude of "give him some time" would look horrible the next day and I doubt partners would be able to overcome being self-aware of that, let alone what purpose it would serve useful to them.

by the by, Dunker did not say the equivalent of that as Joey suggested. Was different.

Who would you lynch?

[Titus]

HEAL: Ban silk

Reading that exact phrasing, it makes me think the mafia have a roleblocker, also called a prostitute sometimes. Maybe my mind is in the gutter, fuck if I know. I'm fine with banning this.

@Nero: Sorry for not seeing one small line of text that refers to the idea of there possibly being a resolution that is good for both scum and town or bad for both scum in town. My point, however, was that -all- the resolutions (or at least the vast majority) are a double-edged sword. For instance, I fully expect that banning silk will also negatively affect a town civ. That said, I think that since Town currently have the numbers, it is still better for us to do this if my assumption on what Silk Ban does is correct. Sue me. (Or just keep saying you scumread me, keep being wrong, etc etc. I'm really not interested in Alisae'ing this out with you if you -are- town, and letting a scumciv take the win.)

I think that this post was where scum said fuck it, we bus creature.

[Titus]

I can confirm A50 did spread Taoism to me, was waiting until someone mentioned that if at all.

Also, I KNEW A50 was China! WOOT! Personal victory!

Did anything else happen to you last night?

Not anything of which I am aware.

Can you think of a reason that someone other than a religion spreader would want to target you?

If there is a hider, I'd be a pretty good target last night.

If you were targeted by a hider, you wouldn't have been converted to Taoism, right?

They are independent of one another. A hider would be looking for protection from Night Kills, not hiding me.

My bad I read hider wrong.

I actually think you are correct.

VOTE: A50

While "hiding" behind A50 ensures his survival, most hiders die if they hide behind scum. I don't see why A50 wouldn't hide beind an unknown and crumb it here if town.

The role is also redundant lkke Chara said.

[Titus]

I think the play is to flip gamma because of the odds that elbirn visited them. We already got 3 scum lynches and its really early in the game, we have the luxury of having still many "mislynches" that can we use effective. Even tho i think Gamma non-team told hard with Red mefias, id still be town to test the slot for the sake of Elbirn's soft

@Brass what do you think?

We should verify but that is plausible too.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

HEAL: Joey

VOTE: Gamma

[Titus]

If there is a hider, I'd be a pretty good target last night.

Pretty good for the Hider to survive, but certainly not the ideal play for the role. Hiders are always supposed to try to SCUM HUNT by crumbing a suspected target and trying ton hide behind them.

So if no one claimed hider, why are we discussing this?

[Titus]

By the way. I should be one of the hosts today.

No. I'd challenge you. Good things happen when I was leader.

Who else besides you?

[Titus]

So if no one claimed hider, why are we discussing this?

if no one claimed hider, why did you think Almost did?
it's the same sort of question. it came up because Joda asked if Almost targeting brass could be for something besides the religion, i believe.

pedit: i'm happy with Kokichi as leader, but in the absence of my willingness to towncase him, Joey is just easier. though i kind of regret voting now, because Joey's reading comprehension has not been the best so far.
i blame Almost.

All the votes on him and the discussion seemed to imply he did.

@Joey, That's ok. I'm not really wanting leadership now due to my IRL.

Shaz wanting me as leader when he's a really large SR for me is also wtf.

[Titus]

It's more that I don't want Koichi.

[Titus]

It's more that I don't want Koichi.

Because you don't trust his competence of you aren"t sure of his alignement ?

Both. If he's town, he's shown himself more vindictive than useful and the blind guess on Varsoon will embolden him to ignore town. If he's scum he'll do something anti-town and claim that he felt it was better.

[Titus]

I actually think you are correct.

VOTE: A50

While "hiding" behind A50 ensures his survival, most hiders die if they hide behind scum. I don't see why A50 wouldn't hide beind an unknown and crumb it here if town.

The role is also redundant lkke Chara said.

Titus' moonlogic and bad comprehension is precisely why I can't promote her to the confident TRs category.

HIDER TARGETS DO NOT GET NOTIFIED OF THEIR VISITS. FRUIT VENDOR TARGETS DO. Thus my role is a flavoured version of the Fruit Vendor role. My role isn't even weak, so I could visit Scum. I just wanted to visit someone that was confirmed and protected to at least prove my role, if not my alignment.

Hint: My ROLE is proven NOT TO BE a Hider. You can question my alignment but not my role, and thus you canNOT use your moonlogic scum!casing me.

My vote is moved once my understanding corrected. :/

[Titus]

By the way. I should be one of the hosts today.

No. I'd challenge you. Good things happen when I was leader.

Who else besides you?

??? You did nothing. You didn't even want creature.

I made sure that we didn't play to egos and drown this thread in garbage. No I didn't pick the lynch. But I made sure you didn't wreck it with yours.

[Titus]

Titus, what are you even talking about. Nothing you say makes sense.

Well it would if you had any human empathy rather than solely seeking power. It wouldn't surprise me if you and Shaz bussed Creature for power.

Now, I have to go. If you want my trust, stop seeking to control things. I never trust those who want power rather than town interests.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

HEAL: Joey

Both bad votes tbh. You have another vote for the WC and it would be best if you used it to support brass/ran

As for Gamma, I already explained, but here goes again:

If Elbrin died because of targeting Gamma it follows:
1- Town does NOT have a Vig
2- Both Scum teams targeted each other

I can accept #1 with a grain of salt, but #2 is tricky because Scum do NOT want to eliminate each other at the start of the game. They want to deplete the town first before they turn on each other. No way Orange Scum shoot Dunker on N1.

Then who did Elbrin visit then? It is possible Gamma is town but there are more possibilities than what you said vigs, roleblockers bulletproofs

[Titus]

Titus, what are you even talking about. Nothing you say makes sense.

Well it would if you had any human empathy rather than solely seeking power. It wouldn't surprise me if you and Shaz bussed Creature for power.

Now, I have to go. If you want my trust, stop seeking to control things. I never trust those who want power rather than town interests.

I'm doing what's in town's interest. You're trying to take credit for a lynch you didn't support and a

resolution you didn't want to put 1st

The outright falsehood here is why I cannot trust you. You have been shown this over and over again.

Second, there are ways to lead without seeking power. That's what I try to do early and what you should do as well if you are town aligned.

[Titus]

The list of resolutions is in, I asked the mod for confirmation of whether I am allowed to discuss the contents as I do not want to be modkilled for violating rules.

Correct. I do think there's one I think I should do to you but it may backfire if I misunderstand it. Do you see what I see?

For your edification Koichi. This is the first mention of jailkeeping Brass.

[Titus]

No one seems to care about my softing so I'll put it like this:

Someone, who is not A50, targeted Brass last night. Is this anti-town? My first thought would be that, like Shaziro speculated, there's a mafia group that can obtain a religious victory. This person tried to convert brass, but was either blocked because of A50's move or less likely, brass was converted to the bad religion and is keeping his mouth shut about it. What do you all think?

To eliminate the obvious, resolutions do not target.

Second, Religion is confirmed no night effect from the flip so the talk of hoods and converting is a waste of time. It's akin to a fruit vendor.

Third, scum could not kill or block brass last night. Maybe a neighborhood/watcher or something like that...otherwise the other slot is likely town. Not conftown though.

[Titus]

Okay, let's get this World Congress off to a start already... When there is a vote count, I will then be putting my 4 delegates out.

I am waiting on this as well. I want to see who is worth my votes.

[Titus]

Second, religion spreaders might visit Brass.

Who said Purple mafia is not a possibility?

[Titus]

Not to bring this back to a discussion people have already dismissed, but why exactly, are we dismissing the idea of a Cultural Purple Mafia?

I'm still trying to figure this one out.

It's possible, but 3 scumteams sound too overkill, I've never seen that before in any game, and I doubt it will get approved.

There was once a game where almost everyone was scum. NKs by lottery. It was fun but not really mafia at that point.

[Titus]

I'm partially reluctant to lynch Gamma now.

HEAL: Joey for World Congress x2

[Titus]

I think we should totally confirm Pidgey and Marshy's role tonight so they get cleared from being last red

And i also think that we should witch hunt last red to prevent a night kill every night from now on

i think assuming there needs to be a scum religion spreader is about on the level with assuming two scumteams, except one of those options says we need to lynch in marshy/Almost/pidgey because they all have the same power.

Let's force them to prove their roles, then we lynch in the pool imo.

[Titus]

Dumb question, if we are testing religion why are we banning the one that mentions religion?

[Titus]

HEAL: Ban gold x2

[Titus]

If creature is obvscum why lynch now?

Chara/gamma/klazam/titus/ran/nero/koki all seem better flips.

Forgot about this post until now. I could get down with a BuJab lynch too

I actually agree with this. My only hestation is it applies to me too. :/ But I have a longer history with Creature.

[Titus]

more Shaz votes plox.

You think Shaz is buddying me? I find it wierd my scum reads were TRing me...yet my TRs who flipped (Varsoona especially) may have been sucking up to me

[Titus]

I believe Gamma's claim and think he's a garbage-tier lynch for today. People should definitely stop telling him to out whether or not he has a protective and who he would be targeting if he is, that is literally just giving scum information. Like, fucking hell, "Oh they'll only kill Gamma that's no big deal" if they don't know if he's a protective or not, they might target somebody he is protecting and -nobody- would die, how do you miss that simple fucking logic? Christ alive.

I'm ok with Ranmaru...-kinda-. I'm not big on the idea of lynching for him being away from game like I was for Creature, because so far as I'm aware it's not his thing. I'm happy with lynching Kokichi though, to be honest, because the more I read of their stuff, the more I regret ever removing my vote from them at the start of the game. Almost50 I am less confident about now.

VOTE: Kokichi I'll set this here for now I guess.

"they might target somebody he is protecting and -nobody- would die, how do you miss that simple fucking logic? Christ alive."
-> random save (the odds are extremely low) is much, MUCH less valuable than to make sure we get the IC tomorrow, prove gamma's alignement and so on

And kokichi is never getting lynched if im alive

Dear lord, many dancing things.

Can we just get to lynching?

[Titus]

Fucking hell, Joey, what other means do you mean to use to protect the IC? If gamma is a protective, he's going to protect the IC, but it's not like there's any chance of overlap unless you magically know of some method of protecting brass that I don't. Him claiming protective does -nothing- pro town. Stop demanding it.

HES SOFT GUILTED do you get that dude ? Hes basically a time bomb where we eventually ALMOST will have to flip them if we need to. Im trying to find a way to make it works here and to not just follow the soft guilty because i think its brain dead to do so.

"But it's not like there's any chance of overlap unless you magically know of some method of protecting brass that I don't" -> Thats also unwarranted and hinting that i softed a protective something, if you believe that then don't say it and keep your mouth shut. If i had a protective shot myself and would prefer to put it on someone else, don't you think its fair to ask a soft guilty to protect the IC themselves ? Think about it

Also, you judge my action at face value, you should actually understand the context better and think about why am i trying to prove Gamma's role and stuff so hard, what is the scum gain behind what i am doing, what is the town gain ? Do you think about those things ?

"Him claiming protective does -nothing- pro town. Stop demanding it"-> YES IT DOES, just because we dont have the have the same information and/or opinion doesn't mean there's no reason to my behavior, i know how to play

I concur. If Gamma is town, having him outright claim he's a protective role benefits. We leash him to Gamma and know that we should or shouldn't do XYZ that could prevent Gamma from protecting Brass. If we force scum to shoot Brass, that's a win.

Yet, I personally feel this protective soft is a fake, so I'm voting Gamma for that reason as well.

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus hi

hi

I like shinies.

[Titus]

Chara, marshy, Shaziro, Ranmaru, Gamma Emerald

We should totally be lynching in this group today as there's likely to be a red busser.

I'm less sold on Marshy and Gamma here. Like I think its theoretically plausible that Marshy fakeclaims religious vendor so he's mechanically "clear". But both players get a limited pass here.

Chara was all "if he does anything today then I'm not lynching him". On one hand, I can see it as town/not red scum that just knew Creatures meta OTOH I could see it as scum that was offering support but preemptively gave a reason to not bus.

I've already cased Ran but I was disappointed that so few commented on it. It looks like he's about to flake too.

Nero, just tell me who you want me to vote. I agree with this and don't have the time to read the last few days in detail. :/

[Titus]

@Nero and Joey, Yeah I know I am kinda creepy. Yet, I know that me leading = bad idea. Yesterday, getting the best of others and stopping the wrong players resulted in a good thing. Add to that my lack of time due to my birthday, and I have been pretty standoffish. So I'm not criticizing those reads over the past few days of my absence. I'll pick up tonight though. I plan on looking at the major wagons to see whom, if any, that I want to lynch.

[Titus]

I really do not like Titus' posts. She is in my lynch pool for today along with Ranmaru.

Can you tell me why wrt Titus

All of her posts are only surface level contributions. She talks a lot about setup/mechanics and things that are known. Her posts relating to her reads are all of a "wait and see what develops."

Nah, not quite but my posts are wait for my real life to slow down in this game. Setup and mechanics are easier for me.

[Titus]

Not a lot has changed for me. I'm not really a fan of setup spec (mainly because I'm bad at it), but I agree that it makes sense that one of the three claimed religion spreaders is anti-town.

+1, I'd lynch Marshy out of the three right now, but I'm so far behind where I doubt that matters much.

[Titus]

By the way, I am Vanilla Town.

Does it say that though in you PM or is this you saying you're effectively a VT because you have no powers?

I am literally Vanilla Town even though I am the world superpower USA.

Make America Great Again? I think I need it.

Why are you claiming this at all?

[Titus]

VC please

[Titus]

By the way, I am Vanilla Town.

Does it say that though in you PM or is this you saying you're effectively a VT because you have no powers?

I am literally Vanilla Town even though I am the world superpower USA.

Make America Great Again? I think I need it.

Why are you claiming this at all?

They are asking me why I'm so unusually apathetic about this game and I am explaining why.

[Titus]

Gamma is still probably scum.

A50 worth a lynch and his vote scares me on Ran. :/

[Titus]

V/LA until Saturday.

Kiana's town. wouldn't have noticed the why without Almost's post at the top of this page. thanks sorry about not being here.

i don't want to lynch Kokichi or Gamma.
VOTE: Ranmaru

Why not Gamma?

[Titus]

Ok, so we're not lynching scum. I'll be around to hammer if needed but we should be lynching Gamma.

[Titus]

Or maybe that was hammer. :/

~ I hate you for stealing pagetop >:( (Venmar)

[Titus]

Also, I am currently reserving my right to make fun of people for their Nero reads if I'm right.

Haha, dummies calling Nero scum! Big dum dums!

I can do this as conf town, still.

Who were the dummies? Certainly not me; I was hard townreading Nero.

Can we lynch Gamma Emerald now? Elbirn is pretty much almost-confirmed to have died as a result of his weak role.

VOTE: Gamma

I concur.

@Joey, I townread you but I don't feel like a massclaim is in our best interest atm. If brass insists, I will claim but I feel that is dumb.

[Titus]

theres only like 4 claims that arent on the table

Yes. That does not change the negative utility of claiming.

Either a) I'm a weak role softing a useful role to protect more powerful roles to try and take a bullet or b) I am a high powerful role that can protect brass. Either way, it's not good of me to claim.

Like I said, I will if brass wants it but I think it's a good idea not to.

[Titus]

Its time for mass claim, I only backed off pretty hard because nero softed a great pr

I hardclaim that i am a commuter , its also the reason why Kokichi disliked gamma commuter shot because i was his neighbor

popcorn to titus

Why didn't we just powerlynch Gamma yesterday then? If you counterclaimed commuter it's bye bye to Gamma who was probably lying.

And, scum can't shoot you because you're a commuter.

ActionDan wasn't such a bad lynch but he was town.

Sad.

Yeah no one wanted to CC the obvscum so scum swung the wagon. P sad.

[Titus]

Another thing, the fact that we Embargo'd gold could mean that we prevented a night kill somehow, it was hinted to be linked to religious gold and gaining gold via a kill. If thats true then, having only 2 night kills instead of 3 might be that we RoleBlocked a 3p kill (maybe?) over than just gamma being confirmed to be guilted via the weak visit by elbirn

*sighs*

Hi Senator.

HEAL: brassherald

Whomever the other leader in just uses the public protect on brassherald.

[Titus]

Senator Brassherald, your impatience and self-importance is wholly unwarranted. Great Caesar bids you act to your wincon, and not dismiss any source of wisdom or insight just because you dislike its mannerism.

Just provide this "wisdon or insight" then, maybe you'll get to the point where I just give you an annoying voice in my head.

As it is, I already don't like that you announced to everyone that you aren't even going to bother reading the game, and instead, somehow think the end of Day 2 is going to be enough to give us this wisdom. But, hey, I'm listening for you to give me a reason I think you are town.

So far, I think you announced early that you're full of hot air.

I don't read on sub in either.

[Titus]

I need the day. I'm in a bad place due to RL right now.

[Titus]

Both scum faction going “this guy is obvtown” gives me heebies though

Too many pronouns and assumptions, can you explain this?

[Titus]

Varsoon attacked me in defense of bu, generally chainsawing, and Dunk called Bu town, along with several other people, and since then they have been all flipped or clearly are town like gamma, leaving Bu. I'm thinking single scum in pool of town people thing, possibly.

Mainly what i'm saying is based on the scumslots' talk, Bu could be nicely associated with either one of them, if that makes sense?

Yes. I think it's logical to infer that whatever bu was saying at the time scum defended him worked well with the scum winconditions.

[Titus]

People jump to associatives though all the time which is not the best thing to do though. Associatives are best found in exceptions if you go that route. For instance, if Adam says shitposting is bad but Brian gets a pass because his shit posting annoys X. Look at Brian as Adam's partner or X being a real thorn in Adam's scum team.

[Titus]

Probably Romaining silent lol.

[Titus]

Ok, how many more excuses before we just lynch Gamma? I'm getting bored at this point. Pretty sure scum are just shopping who they can to save him.

HEAL: Brass with all my delegates

[Titus]

I'll do the VCA on Monday if I am still here and this is ongoing.

@Gamma, Elbrin was weak. He visited you is my understanding. You softed protective which has insanely high likelihood of being a lie.

[Titus]

I'll do the VCA on Monday if I am still here and this is ongoing.

@Gamma, Elbrin was weak. He visited you is my understanding. You softed protective which has insanely high likelihood of being a lie.

Well we know who's not reading the game. Like come on, this was discussed on this very page

Yes nightkill blah blah blah. Not buying that a vig claim even if true vitates Occam's Razor. It's just helpful to scum.

[Titus]

I hinted it (I said she defended Varsoon and Scum!Titus will always defend her teammates), but now she has overdone it and obv!scummed. Like the first time she could've missed it. The second she might have misunderstood. But now she acknowledges she both read and understood, but is persistent on pushing some rubbish argument to appear like she's scum hunting. She's not. SHE is scum and EVEN if she knows who's on the other team her goal now is to lynch TOWN to close the gap in numbers.

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

[Titus]

Now, can we get on with lynching scum and stop wasting time with Shaz claimed vig nonsense therefore Gamma was shot?

That's garbage. If Shaz claimed Elbrin maybe but his allegation was he shot Dunker.

[Titus]

thats wayyy tooo many protective somethings wrong

No shit. Why do you think I kept my head down and tunnelled?

Because Gamma is lying and now I can't protect Brass.

[Titus]

Titus, if shaz confirmed that he shot Dunk it means that elbirn got shot by orange scum thus gamma is not soft-guilted (in case shaz is telling the truth)

No. It means that the orange shot is unaccounted for. Nero could have stopped the orange shot. That's much more likely. Or crosskills. That too frees up the Gamma death. Stop forcing your wrong opinion.

[Titus]

thats wayyy tooo many protective somethings wrong

No shit. Why do you think I kept my head down and tunnelled?

Because Gamma is lying and now I can't protect Brass.

you protected him last night, why ? Gamma ("your cc") would be confirmed mafia if the IC died and you wouldnt even have to claim

I am not wasting the IC's life to prove Gamma's scum when smart towns just lynch Gamma. Second, if the IC died Gamma just claims he was roleblocked/scum strongman. Third, Gamma's team might not even wanted brass dead.

[Titus]

Titus, if shaz confirmed that he shot Dunk it means that elbirn got shot by orange scum thus gamma is not soft-guilted (in case shaz is telling the truth)

No. It means that the orange shot is unaccounted for. Nero could have stopped the orange shot. That's much more likely. Or crosskills. That too frees up the Gamma death. Stop forcing your wrong opinion.

Assumption, not opinion. Also Gamma is claiming 3 times 1shot of role that exist in the game (commuter, doc and bg) it makes literraly 0 freaking sens that gamma is town joat

Yes so why were you forcing me to claim rather than just lynching Gamma with me?

[Titus]

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

Why is a JOAT with a protective shot suspect to a non-consecutive Doctor??

It's my job to protect brassherald and you're arguing mere coincidence that

a) gamma overlaps our roles
b) too many protectives
c) gamma saved by last second counter
d) The players pushing me were largely silent or townreading me until today.

[Titus]

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

Why is a JOAT with a protective shot suspect to a non-consecutive Doctor??

It's my job to protect brassherald and you're arguing mere coincidence that

a) gamma overlaps our roles
b) too many protectives
c) gamma saved by last second counter
d) The players pushing me were largely silent or townreading me until today.

What is the point of D. Yeah I haven't posted a ton. Does that make my read less valid? Does that make my claim illegitimate? Does it make me less town? This is absolutely worthless shading and looks extremely scummy.
And no. Your role and Gamma's role do not overlap. I come from a site with almost 100% role madness games and JOAT + full roles is completely standard.

You weren't part of the category in D. D is Gamma Almost and Chara. The people who couldn't be bothered to do anything until Gamma was about to die. (Queue Gamma AtE)

I don't know where you come from but where I come from Gamma's role conflicts with mine 90+ percent of the time and I have played a lot more than you.

[Titus]

im a bit busy today but looks like not much has happened. all i want to say is b careful with the resolutions and lets try to pick an obvious one cuz last nights religions being blocked was quite bad

You're absolutely definitely utterly right, and I strongly ... WAIT! WHAT????

Why is blocking something that does NOTHING "quite bad" to you???

It prevents us from confirming who is a religion spreader or not. Funny how you want us to assume they are all true?

[Titus]

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

Why is a JOAT with a protective shot suspect to a non-consecutive Doctor??

It's my job to protect brassherald and you're arguing mere coincidence that

a) gamma overlaps our roles
b) too many protectives
c) gamma saved by last second counter
d) The players pushing me were largely silent or townreading me until today.

What is the point of D. Yeah I haven't posted a ton. Does that make my read less valid? Does that make my claim illegitimate? Does it make me less town? This is absolutely worthless shading and looks extremely scummy.
And no. Your role and Gamma's role do not overlap. I come from a site with almost 100% role madness games and JOAT + full roles is completely standard.

You weren't part of the category in D. D is Gamma Almost and Chara. The people who couldn't be bothered to do anything until Gamma was about to die. (Queue Gamma AtE)

I don't know where you come from but where I come from Gamma's role conflicts with mine 90+ percent of the time and I have played a lot more than you.

I could believe your second statement if others did. I'm not the not one who think they don't conflict

Does Joey not count?

[Titus]

I dont think shes thinks ure red, also from a doc pov its hard to justfify letting the IC dies then claim doc the next day if ure hardfos/half cc didnt deliver on his protective shot, idk dude i think the scenario is believable

I dunno which scum Gamma is but red seems unlikely with the amount of defense Gamma has. Orange is more likely.

Second, I can force scum to shoot me before brass as long as we keep protecting him every other night. Pretty standard shit.

So Gamma, your call. You can call off your goons in your PT and shoot me or shit with a thumb up your ass or gamble your whole team on my mislynch.

[Titus]

I dont think shes thinks ure red, also from a doc pov its hard to justfify letting the IC dies then claim doc the next day if ure hardfos/half cc didnt deliver on his protective shot, idk dude i think the scenario is believable

I dunno which scum Gamma is but red seems unlikely with the amount of defense Gamma has. Orange is more likely.

Second, I can force scum to shoot me before brass as long as we keep protecting him every other night. Pretty standard shit.

So Gamma, your call. You can call off your goons in your PT and shoot me or shit with a thumb up your ass or gamble your whole team on my mislynch.

What the fuck? You claimed non-consecutive having protected brass last night. My hypothetical team doesn't need to shoot you, we just shoot brass. That's part of the issue with your claim, it permits a night kill tomorrow night with the excuse of "well darn they shot while I couldn't protect".

You can't shoot brass. Brass would be protected by the jailkeep resolution.

[Titus]

Check what Joey posted. It's not there.

I'm supposing that is Joey's suggestions for Brass's submission.

[Titus]

What i posted are the 6 avaible resolutions, peacekeep isnt available

Figured it was and you left it out because obvious. Rip me.

[Titus]

My biggest concern there is if we give out those boons today how will the recipient live and use them? The only guaranteed protective left that can guaranteed act is Gamma who probably isn't town and should be lynched today.

Yet I am a little demotivated because a lot of active town are dead.

[Titus]

I would definitely be on board for Joda and probably Chara as well, but I'm drawing a blank on Chara right now. Not because of anything Chara has done, but because I am bad at retaining information.

how sweet that you say it's on you and not on me. :> i've taken a backseat today.

how is everyone reading Titus? she's been 100% focused on mechanics and on Gamma, but she doesn't even have any of those mechanics right. i've got some experience with both flavours of Titus, but i don't know what to make of this because i've known scum Titus to be very on top of things, or at least making an attempt to be able to back up her information.

I have been real life busy lately. I have backed up my information. I just feel the shade is from scum Gamma and his partners. I have tried to help town and survive. I just cannot do everything with scum shading me.

[Titus]

I have been real life busy lately. I have backed up my information. I just feel the shade is from scum Gamma and his partners. I have tried to help town and survive. I just cannot do everything with scum shading me.

what does scum shading you have to do with misreading Gamma's claims?

As far as I know, I have not. He claimed a protective joat. No way it's town. Rest is semantics and needling.

[Titus]

i like recognition of World Wonders as an option.
and the Olympics one i may also want to see entirely because it seems like fun, but i don't know if that makes it any better.

not sure about a 3p wincon with embargo city states. i don't think it would hurt us to do it, that much i'm sure of.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a 3p faction called city states.

[Titus]

Titus: you then claimed Gamma had a protective to use later, when he already used it last night and no longer has it by his claim.
and you claimed it was your job to protect brass when your claimed protection has holes in it by design, there is no WC protection to give to brass tonight, and you wouldn't have been able to protect him tonight anyway.

Gamma obscuring his claim and changing it to suit his scum needs is nog my fault. Second, the ability is part of his claim thus making him scum. Whether he used it is irrelevant and whether or not he has depends on whether you believed him. Third, how was I supposed to know peacekeeping would go away?

[Titus]

Nice job skipping over my callout of you. I'm taking that as an admission of guilt.
VOTE: Titus
I won't be pushing this until after WC resolves but I'm definitely voting here

Cmon. If anyone can't see this as pathetic I need you dead vote then I dunno what to do. Given Gamma was already voting me.

Just shoot me.

[Titus]

This gets really frustrating when town aren't here. Brass is but the rest have been nked or spammed into silence while I was sick.

[Titus]

Nice job skipping over my callout of you. I'm taking that as an admission of guilt.
VOTE: Titus
I won't be pushing this until after WC resolves but I'm definitely voting here

Cmon. If anyone can't see this as pathetic I need you dead vote then I dunno what to do. Given Gamma was already voting me.

Just shoot me.

It doesn't matter if I was voting you, it works as emphasis.

This gets really frustrating when town aren't here. Brass is but the rest have been nked or spammed into silence while I was sick.

"wah wah I can't get my desired mislynch so I'm going to spit out AtE that's completely wrong"

It works as needless melodrama to try and look like you're doing something other than OMGUS.

[Titus]

@Brass i will embargo city states okay ? if im correct and this is a 3p, it will be helpful in the long run

Sounds good to me.

Can you help me parse A50? I kinda feell Chara and Joda have generally been hoodwinked but not sure on A50.

[Titus]

@Brass i will embargo city states okay ? if im correct and this is a 3p, it will be helpful in the long run

Sounds good to me.

Can you help me parse A50? I kinda feell Chara and Joda have generally been hoodwinked but not sure on A50.

I have no clue what this means.

Help me sort A50.

[Titus]

I'm banning gold and ivory again.

That's your right and all but I feel banning gold and ivory is suboptimal.

[Titus]

not even nights, non-consecutive. meaning she can't act two nights in a row.

I was a little drunk joey lol

But mostly it was writing on phone. Girlfriend surprised me with a cruise trip so im in labadi drinking pinas coladas so while im up to date in the thread and with whats happening, my writing sucks and its hard to type in a phone.

But im up to date.

Titus seems to be a topic today, im not sure what to make of joda, gamma, and titus. It would be kinda weird if all were town. Just as it would be weird if all the three religion spreaders left are all town if another scum doesnt flip that role.

Dunno who id call scum though. Gamma is scummy for using the role as he did in n1 in my opinion, but titus has said some weird shit today. Has she said her targets?

It's even nights doctor, so, it would just be me N2.

Non consecutive. I held n1 and brass n2.

[Titus]

Wait it appears ban ivory and gold are the resolutions...

[Titus]

I'll just take a chill pill tonight and try to talk sense into this tomorrow.

@Chara, Nero, Elbrin for starters. Just look at all the dead townies.

[Titus]

Titus says she protected Brass N2 which obviously means she did nothing N1. She is suspect of there being other protectives in the game. But yet, she thinks it's more likely that the orange scum kill got blocked than them shooting Elbirn?

Crosskill/scum blocker/scum protective

Let me rephrase

If I was wrong, wouldn't you expect scum to sheep me as I'd be a good place to hide?

[Titus]

Mod replace me

This isn't fun anymore yelling about obvious scum and getting told I am wrong and waiting for you guys to catch up isn't fun. You'll just lynch or let all the active town die/be buddied. Hell that misrep from Gamma with the Gif was atrocious but it results in more votes on me. No one is reading this game anymore and just looking for validation. I'm out. This isn't a mystery game at all but a power grab.

[Titus]

How was that even a misrep? Which line was incorrect, the top or the bottom?

The bottom. I never accused you of shooting Elbrin. I was demoralized because the active town are dead.

[Titus]

Excuse me? Brass has been active and is the fucking IC. You're just blatantly lying at this point.

I didn't say EVERY town was dead. Just enough to make me demoralized.

[Titus]

I'm staying until the mod finds a sub. I did comitt to this after all.

[Titus]

Sure let's lynch Klazam...another outspoken town. Yeah he SRs me but that's not changing the fact he's another deadline lynch lead by those who save Gamma. Another active town voice gone.

I'll just wait over here.

[Titus]

i'm excited!

sorry for low energy. marshy's readslist is nearly exactly mine, don't know if that's a good or bad thing but in the interest of being optimistic i want to say that's good.

Yeah circlejerks without reason. Totally good.

[Titus]

Yes I still want to replace out. Nothing personal but this game has no agency. There's no rhyme or eason to this game. Just certain people decide to deadline lynch so rational thought is dead. The only way town win is if scum had it to them or the setup dictates town win. Just not a fun implementation. I was just attempting to keep the slot active while we wait.