Newbie 454 - Game Over

[Muerrto]

Thanks for pointing that out Muerto. I found it very scummy that she tried to say the whole town was suspicious of me. I thought I also made it obvious why I wasn't going to hammer Karen yet

and

why I thought no one else should at the moment. I think there's no need to rush the day yet.

Anyone else think that Zhao and Karen might be a scum pair or is it too obvious?

No, it's definitely too obvious but it's my top suspiscion at the moment as well. Zhao's done alot of defending of her wild tactics, more than he should've even if he is her partner.

Lesson to the scum, if your partner is a lunatic, distance yourself, don't defend their lunacy.

[Karen]

Lesson to the scum, if your partner is a lunatic, distance yourself, don't defend their lunacy.

lesson to muerrto, if people are obviously not scum, don't come up with wild theories as to why they might be.

[thinktank]

Lesson to the scum, if your partner is a lunatic, distance yourself, don't defend their lunacy.

lesson to muerrto, if people are obviously not scum, don't come up with wild theories as to why they might be.

You can't say for certain who is and who is not scum. You can only say who is probably scum or town. Scum can play any one of many different ways and several of them could be erratic strategies. Therefore no strategy is any less or more obvious than another.

[Muerrto]

Lesson to the scum, if your partner is a lunatic, distance yourself, don't defend their lunacy.

lesson to muerrto, if people are obviously not scum, don't come up with wild theories as to why they might be.

Wild theories? Obviously? Instead of simply insulting people like some pathetic brat why don't you try and actually play the game. Jesus.

[iloveryan]

Obviously, Karen is still my top suspect, and it looks pretty clear that there's a good possibility of her being mafia. As for the possibility of Zhao working with her, I think it would be too obvious. Though, I'm not sure how much experience Zhao has, and if he would be one to make such a deadly mistake if he were indeed mafia.

[Muerrto]

Obviously, Karen is still my top suspect, and it looks pretty clear that there's a good possibility of her being mafia. As for the possibility of Zhao working with her, I think it would be too obvious. Though, I'm not sure how much experience Zhao has, and if he would be one to make such a deadly mistake if he were indeed mafia.

Shrug his join date is Aug 30th although I spose he could've played elsewhere as well.

[Zhao]

Shrug his join date is Aug 30th although I spose he could've played elsewhere as well.

FYI this is my first game of Mafia. I've played it once in real life and I've read a few game threads here and in another forum I browse.

The reason why I believed that Karen was townie when she first self voted for herself is because in the threads that I had browsed here, the person turned out to be a townie:
a) He was frustrated with the town and wanted to prove that he was townie. He helped himself to be lynched and upon death, he is revealed to be townie. He then proceeds to come back for the complementary "I told you so".
b) He was not taking the game seriously and just wanted to be a butthead. In most cases, his negateive actions contributed to the townie loss.

Since Muerrto has 10 more years experince than I, I'll be inclined to believe him.

Unvote: Muerrto
FoS: Karen

Since Karen is not answering my inquiry, what is your general impression of the group so far Muerrto? You think this Karen distraction is taking away from trying to find the second scum?

[thinktank]

Shrug his join date is Aug 30th although I spose he could've played elsewhere as well.

FYI this is my first game of Mafia. I've played it once in real life and I've read a few game threads here and in another forum I browse.

The reason why I believed that Karen was townie when she first self voted for herself is because in the threads that I had browsed here, the person turned out to be a townie:
a) He was frustrated with the town and wanted to prove that he was townie. He helped himself to be lynched and upon death, he is revealed to be townie. He then proceeds to come back for the complementary "I told you so".
b) He was not taking the game seriously and just wanted to be a butthead. In most cases, his negateive actions contributed to the townie loss.

Since Muerrto has 10 more years experince than I, I'll be inclined to believe him.

Unvote: Muerrto
FoS: Karen

Since Karen is not answering my inquiry, what is your general impression of the group so far Muerrto? You think this Karen distraction is taking away from trying to find the second scum?

I was not considering Zhao and Karen as mafia. Karen, most likely but unlikely that Zhao was the other scum. HOWEVER, reading this last post has changed my opinions. Zhao generally defending Karen until the point where he gets accused of being an accomplice and then FoS Karen is highly highly suspicious. hypothetically the scum knows his partner is caught and ditches. and then attempts to divert.

FoS: Zhao

[thinktank]

FoS: Zhao

sry, forgot to bold

[Zhao]

FoS: Zhao

sry, forgot to bold

Nice corner you've painted me in.

- If I continue to claim Karen is a townie, then I'm suspicious by reason of association.
- If I stay quiet, then I'm suspicious of being under the radar and avoiding the issue.
- If I say Karen is a mafia, then I'm suspicious because supposedly my partner is caught and I'm ditching her.

My first speculation was that Karen was a deranged townie, next thing I know, I'm 'defending' her. Could you point out the post(s) where I was defending her?

[HackerHuck]

I like the discussion that we have now. Zhao, since you're painted in a corner, it's best for you to be honest with your feelings about Karen and not worry about how it makes you look.

Mod:

Could we get a vote count please?

[Lucienne]

Lesson to the scum, if your partner is a lunatic, distance yourself, don't defend their lunacy.

lesson to muerrto, if people are obviously not scum, don't come up with wild theories as to why they might be.

This is absurd. No one is cleared as "obviously not scum" on Day 1. The fact you think this is quite worrying.

Wild theories? Obviously? Instead of simply insulting people like some pathetic brat why don't you try and actually play the game. Jesus.

I find it notable you criticise her for insulting people whilst insulting her.

In all seriousness though, I do think that was a bit unfair, Muerrto. It is a game, remember.

As for the possibility of Zhao working with her, I think it would be too obvious. Though, I'm not sure how much experience Zhao has, and if he would be one to make such a deadly mistake if he were indeed mafia.

Newbies can be bad at Mafia, yet be the Mafia. I remember someone else saying "sucking at Mafia does not make you town." I think that's a pretty good quote to use in this case.

I don't know why people are just saying "it's too obvious." This is a newbie game, and I'm not sure I like the way people are seeming to rule out a Zhao-Karen partnership, just because "if they're scum, then it would be so obvious." Isn't that WIFOM anyhow?

[Muerrto]

Karen - Karen, Luci
Think - Muerrto
Ilove - Hack


Iloveryan, Think, Zhao not voting


That's the current vote count, so before I forget

Unvote: Think

Where do I stand on everyone? Well I started off really disliking the Think/Luci combo on Hacker and Think wanting Hack to defend himself from two random votes.

But when Karen replaced and immediately added a third, then later claimed that Hacked 'had the most suspiscion on him' she skyrocketed to the top of my list. I'm pretty sure everyone pretty much felt the same way when she replaced.

Almost everyone.


In post 56-59 Zhao and Karen have a nice little back and forth going. When she places the third vote on Hack in 58 Zhao posts less than an hour later but DOESN'T mention that the earlier votes were random or that placing 3 votes on someone on the third page is bad. Now granted he says this is his first time but it still just looks bad. There's no way to avoid that.

Then in post 71 you mention that placing the lynch -1 is bad now that everyone else has said the same but then say your top suspects are HH and Think. Why? How would Karen not be your top suspect?

Then in post 106 you distance yourself from her. The problem with your theory about frustrated townie is that she voted Hack in her third post(her first 2 were just saying she's here and is reading so really her first post) and she voted herself TWO posts later. She voted herself in her 5th post on the thread and like I said her first 2 didn't really count. That's insane.

This isn't frustrated townie. She became heavy under fire for dropping lynch -1 on page 3. So to 'prove' her innocence she volunteered to die. How does volunteering to die helping the town if she's town? No townie would do that.

At this point I'm ready to

Vote: Karen

and put her at lynch -1. Leaving for some kind of trip and leaving her vote on herself is an even worse move for a townie. Plus after posting she'd be gone for a while she managed to post the next day long enough to insult me again. I'm not 100% convinced she's away but merely lurking because of her current situation and needed an excuse to do so.

I'm quite happy with a Karen lynch today, she's had plenty of time to defend herself but instead still backs up her vote, votes herself, and then accuses anyone accusing her of being scum and not knowing how to play. Also, trying to convince the town that it's ok to quick vote because there's a 75% chance we'll have power role information tomorrow to go by was way off.

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 3) Karen
    • Karen
      
    • Lucienne
      
    • Muerrto
  • 1) HackerHuck
    • thinktank
  • 1) iloveryan
    • HackerHuck
  • 2)
    not voting
    • iloveryan
      
    • Zhao
• Lynch:
  4 votes

[Zhao]

[quote=HackerHuck] I like the discussion that we have now.[/quote]

I’m not surprised that you like the discussion now as the current drama has drawn away attention from your case. You’ve finally decide to go on the offensive against me after I prodded you in the early game. You were relatively quiet until Karen showed up and you pounced at the opportunity.

[quote=HackerHuck] Zhao, since you're painted in a corner, it's best for you to be honest with your feelings about Karen and not worry about how it makes you look.[/quote]

That would be convenient for you if I were to flip back to believing Karen was a townie. Then you could use the inconsistency against me.

No, I follow Muerrto’s reasonings and it’s time for the hammer. I just hope that I’m not being maniputated by the scum team.

Vote: Karen

[quote=HackerHuck]I'm pretty well convinced that Karen has to be scum. [/quote]

You most likely won't lay the hammer yourself as that would most likely bring attention to you.

[Zhao]

I curse these non-edit posts!

I like the discussion that we have now.

I’m not surprised that you like the discussion now as the current drama has drawn away attention from your case. You’ve finally decide to go on the offensive against me after I prodded you in the early game. You were relatively quiet until Karen showed up and you pounced at the opportunity.

Zhao, since you're painted in a corner, it's best for you to be honest with your feelings about Karen and not worry about how it makes you look.

That would be convenient for you if I were to flip back to believing Karen was a townie. Then you could use the inconsistency against me.

No, I follow Muerrto’s reasonings and it’s time for the hammer. I just hope that I’m not being maniputated by the scum team.

Vote: Karen

I'm pretty well convinced that Karen has to be scum.

You most likely won't lay the hammer yourself as that would most likely bring attention to you.

[Zhao]

In post 56-59 Zhao and Karen have a nice little back and forth going. When she places the third vote on Hack in 58 Zhao posts less than an hour later but DOESN'T mention that the earlier votes were random or that placing 3 votes on someone on the third page is bad. Now granted he says this is his first time but it still just looks bad. There's no way to avoid that.

I questioned her on why she would put HH on L-1 as that would open him up to a hammer.

I don’t understand … it was a scum tell because I should have explained the current L-1 situation further?

Then in post 71 you mention that placing the lynch -1 is bad now that everyone else has said the same but then say your top suspects are HH and Think. Why? How would Karen not be your top suspect?

At that time I though that Karen was a deranged townie who didn’t know what she was doing.

Then in post 106 you distance yourself from her. The problem with your theory about frustrated townie is that she voted Hack in her third post(her first 2 were just saying she's here and is reading so really her first post) and she voted herself TWO posts later. She voted herself in her 5th post on the thread and like I said her first 2 didn't really count. That's insane.

Actually, I was more inclined for option b)

b) He was not taking the game seriously and just wanted to be a butthead. In most cases, his negative actions contributed to the townie loss.

Her posts were:
#1 – I’m here.
#2 – Digesting info.
#3 – Put HH at L-1.
That’s not frustration, that’s reckless mafia playing that makes her look bad.

[thinktank]

I curse these non-edit posts!

I like the discussion that we have now.

I’m not surprised that you like the discussion now as the current drama has drawn away attention from your case. You’ve finally decide to go on the offensive against me after I prodded you in the early game. You were relatively quiet until Karen showed up and you pounced at the opportunity.

Zhao, since you're painted in a corner, it's best for you to be honest with your feelings about Karen and not worry about how it makes you look.

That would be convenient for you if I were to flip back to believing Karen was a townie. Then you could use the inconsistency against me.

No, I follow Muerrto’s reasonings and it’s time for the hammer. I just hope that I’m not being maniputated by the scum team.

Vote: Karen

I'm pretty well convinced that Karen has to be scum.

You most likely won't lay the hammer yourself as that would most likely bring attention to you.

Umm.. What case? if i remember correctly all votes on hacker were random including my own. Zhao, all of a sudden you seem yo have go on an all out offensive when fingers were pointed at you and now you seem to be accusing people with no logical evidence. At the beginning of the game, you made some insightful comments which were both calm and intellectual. Your recent posts after accusations towards you have made your posts neither.

unvote: Hackerhuck

vote: Zhao

i hope i finally did the unvoting right.

[LyingBrian]

Day 1

• Karen
  (
  Goon
  ) -
  lynched
  • Karen
    
  • Lucienne
    
  • Muerrto
    
  • Zhao
• Status:
  Night 1
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 09/16/07 12:30 AM GMT

[LyingBrian]

Night 1

• Lucienne
  (
  Townie
  ) -
  Mafia
  
  
  
• Status:
  Day 2
  
• Lynch:
  3 votes

[HackerHuck]

Well, I know who my number one suspect is now.

Zhao, care to explain your actions from yesterday? You certainly seemed to be covering for Karen the most...

[HackerHuck]

Happy Birthday Mod! (Although I do like the old avatar better...)

[thinktank]

FoS: Zhao

due to his actions from day one, covering for karen and then ditching when he got attacked.

On a completely unrelated note, if we do have a power role still among us in the town, we could end this game right now since theres only one scummy left.

[Muerrto]

On a completely unrelated note, if we do have a power role still among us in the town, we could end this game right now since theres only one scummy left.

Um..can you explain that? If we have BOTH a cop and a doctor or if we have a cop who found the other scum then yes. Otherwise, a power role stepping forward now would just get them night killed.

[HackerHuck]

^^Agreed^^

No reason for a doc to claim unless at lynch-1. If we have an innocent result, it might be worth our while for the cop to announce it -

but only if that innocent is in danger of being lynched

.