Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Spambot]

I still don't think turbo lynching is at all the way to go (this is the only thing I'm finding scummy about Yos currently), but I no longer think that lynching Guardian would be a turbo lynch. He's done so many things that have bothered me that I think it's more than worth the risk.

Vote: Guardian

[Off the Mark]

vote count?

I'll lynch Guardian hour 9 if it's a choice between that and a no lynch. Then if he comes up town, like I expect, we can go after FA and possibly Yos, depending on what has transpired in the meantime. Yos still looks pro-town to me. The only reasons I suspect him are CDB/FA's support of him and maybe he faked the hack. Besides that, I got nothin'.

[Guardian]

While it's been a consistent theme for Guardian since the start of the game to mistrust and cast suspicion on more experienced players, I find his latest post somewhat scummy.

Woah -- Ibby -- while I disagree with the constant theme bit, if you find that I have been doing that all game,

why do you only find this instance of it scummy??

If I saw someone doing that for only those reasons, I would find all of it scummy -- no!?

That being said, I am not even "casting suspicion" on you here -- I want you watched closely. Are you uncomfortable with that?

While he suggests the possibility of more experienced players in scum roles has him concerned, it's interesting that he fails completely to see the other side of the coin.

Eh, the good scum side of the coin worries me more. That's why I said IGMEOY, I don't want to be duped by great scum. If you are great town, it will show by your finding scum for us. Yos2 has failed to make any great strides at doing so (sorry Yos ) and you two are yet untested.

More experienced players in town roles can also be extremely helpful to the town.

I repeat, if you are town, it will show. In the meanwhile, I am going to watch you closely. mmmk?

It makes me wonder what Guardian is really worried about.

Not losing to good scum...?


I notice people voting me. I think I am pretty obviously town, and I've stated why. I didn't bother to read the first post, and I didn't get a role PM, and said so. If that makes me an idiot, or too jumpy, or whatever, that's fine, but it also makes me a bad lynch. I think I've responded well to any cases brought against me, and I think that, even objectively, a me-lynch is pretty obviously a mislynch.

That being said, the case on FA is not great either -- I just feel that he hasn't been helpful, has lurked, has tried to get us to buy a meta-defense that he always lurks, and while I will miss the roleplaying deeply I find his not helping us find scum to be scummy.

Note how I have a town tell on YB and defended him all game as obvious town and he got lynched. Note how I still stand by my read on Korran even though Kinetic is extremely misguidedly attacking me. Spambot I am not sure about, but if you read his posts you will see most of why he is attacking me is his disturbance about me voting him and unvoting him.

Again, I think I am pretty obviously a bad lynch. Someone has to be lynched, and if it is going to be me, then them's the breaks for the town. If I do get lynched, remember to look carefully at the people who are pushing my wagon (it is a discredit to my play that my wagon is almost always an easy wagon to push. whatever, it is an easy wagon to push, and I ask you to look closely at those doing so). Remember to not let the three "experts" glide by, and look closely at FA for "tomorrow's" lynch.

Eh, I

always

find it scummy when someone adopts a defeatist attitude, but here goes. This game has been the least fun for me of any game I've played in on here, largely because I have no clear idea of who the scum are -- nor do I even have a great case/idea on anyone. Also, I lost the director race, and have been the only player in a flavorless, vanilla role, the whole entire game. In a game with such a great theme, that is honestly quite infuriating and de-motivating.

I don't want to be mislynched in that I would very much like to win this game, but if you do want to lynch me and knowing me to be town will help you a lot in finding scum, then go for it.

I honestly think the wagon on me is *obviously* misguided, and as this post and me going v/la probably isn't going to make it much less easier for people to lynch me, I really ask that if I am lynched you look at the people who tried to start it and the people who jump on.


I think FA is a better play than me today, because I've contributed, and tried, for what that's worth, while FA has lurked and hid behind his roleplaying that he isn't really doing anything to help try and find scum. I will be on v/la Starting tomorrow, if you have anything you want to address, ask me tonight -- if you just want to hop on the easy wagon, go ahead, but I really hope the town looks at you with great scrutiny tomorrow.

I honestly think we had 6 obvious town in this game, in me, korran, yb, and the three latecomers. If more than one of those is scum, I'll be really surprised. Somehow, in my absence, we managed to lynch one of those, and it looks worse and worse that the town is going to waste a lynch on another. Whatever, honestly. If my lynch helps the town because the town can see how easy the lynch was and how people are jumping on just because they aren't willing to look hard for scum, then all the better for the town. If my mislych just hurts the town and we lose, honestly y'all deserve it.

Nightless typically has 4 scum 8 town. Maybe it is 3 scum 9 town here, but those are pretty much the only two options imo. For all I know, a wagon of 4 with 3 scum could lynch me at this point. SO again, watch the wagons closely.

If you manage not to mislynch me and instead lynch FA or some other good candidate, I will be due for a re-read Monday when I get back and continue to do my best to help find scum.

In sum, don't be idiots, and find someone else to lynch. Failing that, when I turn up town, look close as shit at those who join my wagon and stubbornly refuse to go after FA or anyone else.

That's my piece.

ps: I know I used the word honestly three times. Deal with it.

[ibaesha]

Woah -- Ibby -- while I disagree with the constant theme bit, if you find that I have been doing that all game, why do you only find this instance of it scummy??

I don't 'only' find this instance scummy. It simply added to my other suspicions from reading the first 11 pages. You did read my post in it's entirety didn't you? And why would you disagree with it being consistant theme of yours? Did you not start off the game with stating suspicions of the most experienced players? Aren't you doing it again now?

That being said, I am not even "casting suspicion" on you here -- I want you watched closely. Are you uncomfortable with that?

In my mind, saying IGMEOY is about equal to a FoS so it is casting suspicion. Perhaps it's an opinion, but there it is. And no I'm not uncomfortable with being watched closely. I expect it, it's a part of mafia. Does it appear that I'm attempting to fly under the radar? I don't think so.

Eh, the good scum side of the coin worries me more. That's why I said IGMEOY, I don't want to be duped by great scum. If you are great town, it will show by your finding scum for us.

A healthy dose of paranoia I'll give you, but assuming all experienced players are naturally great scum is also a fallacy. I certainly wouldn't put myself in that category. As far as me (or anyone) being great town showing by finding scum, that's also a fallacy. People who are great town players can also be wrong on occasion and being wrong doesn't make someone scum. Just like being right doesn't make someone town. That said, I'll do my best to hunt some scum even if I am rusty after being away from mafia for the last 10 months.

I repeat, if you are town, it will show. In the meanwhile, I am going to watch you closely. mmmk?

Really? Doesn't that contradict your worry that you'll be duped by 'great scum'? Just sayin'.

Not losing to good scum...?

Or being caught by good town if you are scum.

As for the rest of your post. I'm not ready to lynch anyone (including you) until I finish reading the game in its entirety. I do find that the healthy dose of paranoia you show in one area (experienced players) is completely absent when you're willing to essentially clear a full SIX people as town. Metagaming the entire first post/PM thing is a dangerous avenue to take, IMO. I know that it's been explained how any of those people could've manipulated the situation to make themselves look innocent.

Now then I still have about 30 pages to read, which I'll get to within the next couple days as I've said.

[petroleumjelly]

Okay. I haven't read much of the thread still -- I keep getting bored out of my skull when reading through the "director election" stuff -- but after asking Pooks about my role choices, I am already ticked off.

I am assuming everything EyceKing did was public, so I don't think I'm revealing super-secret information here.

I was apparently assigned to be a White House Liaison from Hours 1-4, and it took 4 complete hours to finish my job. But I was

switched away from my job at the end of Hour 4 thereby making all of those hours wasted

. From my understanding, Yos2 is the person who controls job switching. I want an explanation for why I was switched away from doing this, and

immediately

. I don't care if you've explained it before - you

will

type it out for me again. Switching me away

right when I was about to finish a mission

is completely stupid, especially since from my understanding even if I were scum I could not do anything to sabotage it, since lots of the other roles talk about how results could be tampered with, but there is no such qualifier for the White House Liaison.

Secondly. My next job was apparently, during Hour 5, to be an FBI Liaison. Funnily enough, my earlier job (White House Liaison) was apparently supposed to speed up FBI investigations by

three hours

(would have been helpful!) because I "put pressure on them" as a White House Liaison. I was then going to investigate Spambot, but then I was

switched again

!

Thirdly, I've apparently had to spend 2 hours investigating Convention Centre, because the first investigation was nebulous, but now it is confirmed (so long as sanity applies?) that it is undoubtedly clear from having a nuke.

So chop chop! Why has my role been made completely useless for an entire 5 hours (possibly 6, if you count the uncertain result for the first investigation of the Convention Centre)?

[Albert B. Rampage]

We were sabotaged, all the investigative roles were switched, all the jobs were canceled.

[Yosarian2]

PJ, you'll see what happened when you get to that part of the game, but I did not order the roles to be switched. Someone at CTU, some kind of scum hacker, hacked in to the director's personal computer, and sent 3 orders out in my name, disrupting the power roles and sending Jack Bauer into a trap.

The relevent events happened on hours 3 and 4; the first attempt by the scum to hack into my account failed, the second one, on day 4, suceeded, followed by the 3 orders hitting at the end of hour 4. Also relevent is the fact that, dispite the mod saying the scum can kill every 4 hours, the scum have not killed yet, which makes me supect that the hacking action took the place of the scum kill.

Anyway, you'll see it when you read that part of the game.

[petroleumjelly]

._. You can't be serious.

Could you link me to the post where this happens so I have a milestone to get to while reading? Argh.

Also, I don't consider the White House Liaison an "investigation role"; my function seemed to be a motivator for the FBI. That said, I don't see why my role was switched (nor how somebody could sabotage so many departments at once?).

[Albert B. Rampage]

petro, we seriously don't have much time in this game, the days pass incredibly fast, could you finish reading as soon as possible ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Page 32, post 297

FBI Special Report

At approximately 4 AM, Jack Bauer was ambushed in FDR Park, we have not IDed or located the shooters. Mr. Bauer amazingly escaped with just a flesh wound, we have no idea where the shooters fired from but we are currently sweeping the premises.

We believe Mr. Bauer was acting on faulty intel provided by CTU and have reason to suspect that extensive housecleaning is in order on your end.

CrashTextDummy has switched Jobs with Guardian Effective End of Hour 4

EyceKing has switched Jobs with Xdamno Effective End of Hour 4

[petroleumjelly]

The relevent events happened on hours 3 and 4; the first attempt by the scum to hack into my account failed, the second one, on day 4, suceeded, followed by the 3 orders hitting at the end of hour 4.

Questions.

1.) How do you know the first attempt failed? Link the post, please.
2.) How could scum try twice in a row so soon? If they tried Hour 3 and failed (which indicates me it took 3 hours of waiting time), how come they got another full shot in 1 hour?
3.) How much, if any, information did the scum get through this 'hacking'?
4.) Does it matter that the orders were sent out "in your name"? Is there a way to trace this? [Note: I have not fully absorbed all the roles yet, I should get to that].

[petroleumjelly]

And my role is apparently doing nothing at the moment because I was not informed I had to send something in.

So - what's all been done and what needs doing? I'm a Field Agent, so tell me where I ought to be. I don't know how fast I'll be able to catch up, this reading is fairly dense, but I assume I can send in an action right now so more time isn't wasted.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Act as a bodyguard for Spambot for now. Hurry up because we need to lynch someone by hour 9.

[petroleumjelly]

Is there something especially good about Spambot that makes him in need of bodyguarding? I ask because I was chose to investigate him before switching off the FBI Liaison job, which indicates to me that at the very least, the person in charge of my role found him to be scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

He is the only cryptologist right now, it is crucial to defend him this hour.

[petroleumjelly]

Um. Doesn't the first post say you're also a Crypto? Or is that outdated?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Outdated.

[UltimaAvalon]

Heya PJ

1.) How do you know the first attempt failed? Link the post, please.

I was just told by the mod that someone here at CTU just tried to hack into the director's personal computer, and specifically into the director's e-mail and personell file.

2.) How could scum try twice in a row so soon? If they tried Hour 3 and failed (which indicates me it took 3 hours of waiting time), how come they got another full shot in 1 hour?
Thats actually a really good question...

3.) How much, if any, information did the scum get through this 'hacking'?
As far as we know, they were only able to send orders as if they were Yos, thus creating the whole muckup with the investigative roles and such.

4.) Does it matter that the orders were sent out "in your name"? Is there a way to trace this? [Note: I have not fully absorbed all the roles yet, I should get to that]
Why yes, and it was traced, by me, and according to Spambot, all was done by him

I was chose to investigate him before switching off the FBI Liaison job, which indicates to me that at the very least, the person in charge of my role found him to be scummy.

No, your action was cancelled as soon as your role was changed.

Um. Doesn't the first post say you're also a Crypto? Or is that outdated?

He doesn't want to be crypto, especially since FA quit using him and chose to send transmissions to Spambot instead

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, I've been scanning the map. Can I confirm that these are the places where the bomb can be hidden, or did I miss someplace? And we auto-win if we get Bauer to defuse the bomb? Do we know if the bomb will remain in one static area, or if it can be moved?

1.) Washington Convention Center (which my role as cleared)
2.) Union Station
3.) Library of Congress
4.) U.S. Supreme Court
5.) Verizon Center
6.) National Building Museum
7.) U.S. Capitol
8.) U.S. Botanic Garden
9.) National Museum of the American Indian
10.) National Air & Science Museum
11.) National Gallery of Art [East Building]
12.) National Gallery of Art [West Building]
13.) White House
14.) Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden
15.) National Museum of National History
16.) National Museum of American History
17.) National Museum of African Art
18.) United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
19.) Washington Monument
20.) Jefferson Memorial
21.) World War II Memorial
22.) Lincoln Memorial
23.) Historical Society of Washington D.C. [hidden in front of Convention Center]

[Albert B. Rampage]

20.) Jefferson Memorial

3.) Library of Congress

2.) Union Station

are also cleared

[Yosarian2]

The relevent events happened on hours 3 and 4; the first attempt by the scum to hack into my account failed, the second one, on day 4, suceeded, followed by the 3 orders hitting at the end of hour 4.

Questions.

1.) How do you know the first attempt failed? Link the post, please.
2.) How could scum try twice in a row so soon? If they tried Hour 3 and failed (which indicates me it took 3 hours of waiting time), how come they got another full shot in 1 hour?
3.) How much, if any, information did the scum get through this 'hacking'?
4.) Does it matter that the orders were sent out "in your name"? Is there a way to trace this? [Note: I have not fully absorbed all the roles yet, I should get to that].

Ok. This was in hour 3, post 694:

Well, that's worrying...

I was just told by the mod that someone here at CTU just tried to hack into the director's personal computer, and specifically into the director's e-mail and personell file. I'm not sure what that means; whatever they were trying to do, it apparenlty wasn't sucessfull this time.

Basically, I was told my the mod that there had been several attempts to access the director's personal e-mail and personell file on my computer, using bad passwords, but that they had apparently not managed to actually access my account. I was also told that it must have been someone inside CTU trying to hack me.

At the time, I posted the thread above attempt that had failed; re-reading Pooky's PM now, I'm now thinking it's possible that the scum hacking may have just taken two hours to crack my passwords.

When the scum hacked me in hour 4, I was told that I had been hacked, that they had gotten into my e-mail account and that they had sent out 3 e-mailed orders in my name from the director's e-mail account. We didn't actually find out what they were doing until the end of the hour, when the told us that:

FBI Special Report

At approximately 4 AM, Jack Bauer was ambushed in FDR Park, we have not IDed or located the shooters. Mr. Bauer amazingly escaped with just a flesh wound, we have no idea where the shooters fired from but we are currently sweeping the premises.

We believe Mr. Bauer was acting on faulty intel provided by CTU and have reason to suspect that extensive housecleaning is in order on your end.

CrashTextDummy has switched Jobs with Guardian Effective End of Hour 4

EyceKing has switched Jobs with Xdamno Effective End of Hour 4

So, apparently, with their 3 orders, they sent Jack Bauer into a trap, they switched CTD's job with Guardian's job, and they switched Eyeking's job with Xdamno's job, disrupting all 3 of the pro-town actions that take 4 hours to complete.

[Yosarian2]

20.) Jefferson Memorial

3.) Library of Congress

2.) Union Station

are also cleared

Did Yogurt finish his investigation of Union Station?

[Albert B. Rampage]

The Union Station is indeed not cleared yet.

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, trying to read the game in-depth. I'll pause every 5 pages or so with a post.

Pages 1-5

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

Would you be able to tell the difference between a "slip" by scum from a "mistake" by a newbie? I can understand the basic reason for wanting to fill important positions with new players, but in doing so you are also giving them the perfect excuse of "being new and making a mistake" if they actually sabotage something. Also – and I don't know if this is possible – even if there had been newbie players in important positions, couldn't an experienced scum-buddy tell them how to sabotage and lie anyways? I don't know if there is night-talking in this game since it doesn't have night. At the very least, I understand that if the Director is scum, they would have the ability to relay information with their buddies all game long, such that they could direct newbie-scum on how to act.

Furthermore, Xdaamno claims that the Counter-Intelligence Agent is the most powerful role and as such it should go to a Newbie, but the role is useless if the information is sent to a scum-Crypto. This is a role which essentially requires 2 pro-town people in order to make it work, as opposed to other roles [such as Field Agent] which only require 1 pro-town person in order to make it work (note that Post 26 makes it questionable as to whether there are any 'safe' roles). Since there are a number of roles which require the Cryptologist being pro-town in order for them to be effective, I would say – at first glance – that the Cryptologist is by far and away the most important role to assure is pro-town, possibly other than the Director.

Xdaamno and Yos hit the nails on the head for exactly what I was thinking at this junction. YB focused only on Yos speculating on nightkill targets even though Guardian had just done that, and as Xdaamno points out that the expendability of bodyguards has no bearing on how many people are killed. Course this is rather moot since YB has been lynched as town, but nice to see people catching this.

I was thinking, in fact, that that's something the director's ability to talk in private could be useful for; if a crypto gets a confirmed innocent, he tells the director rather then telling the whole town, that way the information isn't lost unless both the crypto and the director get killed, and it'd make it harder for a scum crypto to hold back information then him just not telling anyone at all.

I don't like this idea, actually.

FoS: Yos2

. This is putting too many of the eggs in one basket – if that cryptologist then dies, the result is completely at the director's word, who already has a good deal of power.

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

This seems oxymoronic. How can somebody be scummy for throwing out good ideas? [Never mind; should have read post 67 first, which then makes me wonder how Guardian can call people campaigning for Director scummy while

he

is campaigning for Director. x_x]

Korran's behavior/entrance is strange. He doesn't appear to have read the game, and yet is willing to say Guardian 'looks like a great leader'. Can I get a confirmation that Korran/Guardian were in another game together at the time? I've seen a few quick newbie-town meltdowns, but this one looks a bit forced to the point where I'll just keep it as neutral.

[Yosarian2]

I don't like this idea, actually.

FoS: Yos2

. This is putting too many of the eggs in one basket – if that cryptologist then dies, the result is completely at the director's word, who already has a good deal of power.

Meh. Is that worse then losing the information completly?

For the most part, it's probably best if most information just be revealed publicly, but eh, if there's information that a crypto dosn't think should be revealed publicly but that he dosn't want to risk it getting lost completly, telling the director's a reasonable option.