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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:10 pm

Post by HackerHuck »

I have to pipe up now that I've finally had a chance to catch up.

I'm actually happy with my vote on Luckay, so I'll officially say it's no longer random. I guess the proper protocol is
Confirm vote: Luckay Luck


I don't have a problem with his townie tells or his scum tests or any of his conclusions - I don't understand his reasoning, so I've pretty much ignored it.
What I don't really like is his "selling" of this information. He's much like those late night adverts - "make millions on the stock market using my simple program!" We put a bunch of information in the "magic box", turn the crank and out comes all the right answers. If it really works, it makes no sense to share the "wealth". It's only a useful tool when we're 100% certain that he's pro-town. What happens when LL is playing for the other team? Does his insight disappear or does he give us the wrong information? He would also know how to fool the "magic box", since he knows what will trigger townie tells.

In a nutshell, trying to convince others to follow you because your "system" tells you is very bad for the town. It gives you too much of an excuse for when you're wrong and it really gives the rest of the town nothing to go on.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:10 pm

Post by Twito »

StD wrote:They're more likely. I'm more likely. No offence Twito.
Non taken. I happen to know it's truth.
But I do have my good times maybe someday you will see one of those games. Had couple of awesome ones.

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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:54 pm

Post by IH »

unvote, Vote:Hackerhuck


It's only up to you how serious you take his findings. This is like someone giving us insights to who they think is suspicious is scummy, because they're "selling" information. LuckayLuck hasn't really tried to get us to follow his system, has he? The most he's pushed for is to defend people he thinks are town.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by Arafax »

Mod
I am voting for Canucklehead17...Not Mariyta...Thanks!
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:00 pm

Post by Cardinal Ibelly »

The Official “Ticket to the Moon!” Vote Count!


Canucklehead17 - 5 - Maz Medias, Mariyta, Fritzler, Save the Dragons, Arafax
Jack – 4 – LuckayLuck, Twito, Canucklehead17, Ether


Ether – 2 – Bogre, Cogito Ergo Sum
LuckayLuck – 2 – HackerHuck, TheEyeofMordor
Twito – 2 – the silent speaker, Thok

Arafax – 1 – PookyTheMagicalBear
bird1111 – 1 – bird1111
HackerHuck – 1 – IH
IH – 1 – Nightson
Nightson – 1 – Jack
the silent speaker – 1 – VitaminR

With
22
alive, it takes
12
to make somebody leave the Earth so soon…

Waiting for their tears to turn into the rain – 1 – Mastermind of Sin
Cardinal Ibelly says:

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3983]Replace into Royal Family Mafia Today![/url]
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:08 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

Canucklehead17 wrote:I now see your point, and yes, it is a more valid point. I figured you were just being stingy about me referencing YOU.
Please, stay away, I don't like being touched! :D
Canucklehead17 wrote:Still though, I think that would be a bit TOO obvious if I was scum, don't you?
On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.
Canucklehead17, RE: people following him wrote:Um, ok. I honestly don't know why, I know no one on this board...
This has more to do with Twito. It's a weak point and I realize it, so I decided to include Twito in the fun by IGMEOYing him.

<3 Twito.
HackerHuck wrote: In a nutshell, trying to convince others to follow you because your "system" tells you is very bad for the town. It gives you too much of an excuse for when you're wrong and it really gives the rest of the town nothing to go on.
I'm not going to quote the whole post, but I must say:

Your whole post makes sense regardless of LL's alignment. Your whole post could be true if LL were town. Is there more to your suspicion?
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:01 am

Post by Canucklehead17 »

STD wrote:On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.
Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:05 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

WIFOM

The wiki is a great resource. There's a page on logical fallacies, if you are interested. WIFOM is the most commonly discussed in mafia games.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:36 am

Post by Bogre »

VOTE: Canucklehead


Wifommy is pteh nommy.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:47 am

Post by Thok »

Canucklehead17 wrote:
STD wrote:On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.
Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.
I consider this a protownish tell from Canuckle. I'd prefer going after Twito.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:46 am

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Asking what a term is that you haven't heard of before is protownish?...Interesting.

All Twito has done is follow blindly....I don't find that scummy...I find that a few others things yes, but not scummy....Happy with my vote on Canucklehead.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:55 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

Thok wrote:
Canucklehead17 wrote:
STD wrote:On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.
Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.
I consider this a protownish tell from Canuckle. I'd prefer going after Twito.
Are you serious? I'll admit, there were pro-townish tells in Canuckle's defense (I'm considering switching to IH), but this just proves he didn't know what WIFOM is. Inexperience to terms is not a pro-town tell.

Thok + Canuckle = scumbuddies maybe?
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:15 am

Post by Thok »

It's more of a trying to actually understand the argument and not simply blindly trying to refute it sort of thing.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:00 pm

Post by the silent speaker »

On the contrary, whether I'm scum or town I dearly want to understand the arguments against me. I love as scum getting arguments I can refute.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:39 pm

Post by Arafax »

Silent Speaker : So, you're saying that you agree with Thok or not?...Sorry, it's just hard to read someone's posts without knowing what comment they're reffering to.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:33 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

Canucklehead17 wrote:
STD wrote:On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.
Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.
Again, while I remember to say "I told you so..."

This is my exact reasoning for why Canuckle is townie (near 100%) as I've said over and over again.

1. His defense is townie-ish.
2. He is not WIFOM'ing.
3. Therefore, he is townie.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:11 pm

Post by Arafax »

LL wrote:This is my exact reasoning for why Canuckle is townie (near 100%) as I've said over and over again.

1. His defense is townie-ish.
2. He is not WIFOM'ing.
3. Therefore, he is townie
What??

1. What defense do you expect from someone?...Perhaps a "don't vote me or I'll kill you in the night" one?
2. Not using WIFOM does not make anyone clear....WIFOM as a whole, is completley debatable in any sense.
3. Crap-logic LL.

At this point, if nothing else, we atleast know that Thok & LL want to keep Canuckleahd17 around....Interesting.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:45 pm

Post by the silent speaker »

Nooo, I'm disagreeing with Thok. I didn't quote because he's the post directly above mine.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:46 pm

Post by IH »

Thok wrote:
Canucklehead17 wrote:
STD wrote:
On the contrary (ignoring the obvious WIFOM), you were pretty damn subtle. Not scum prodigy, but if you're scum, you're playing pretty well.



Err, embarassing question(should've asked earlier), but what does WIFOM stand for? It's a new term I've yet to see in mafia games.



I consider this a protownish tell from Canuckle. I'd prefer going after Twito.
Ignorance=Town? Hmmmm.... I'd say that's pretty neutral, but I could have sworn that Canuckle has used the particular term of WIFOM in 391...... I'll need to check both of these games to make sure he's not lying about not knowing what WIFOM is....
Arafax wrote:Asking what a term is that you haven't heard of before is protownish?...Interesting.

All Twito has done is follow blindly....I don't find that scummy...I find that a few others things yes, but not scummy....Happy with my vote on Canucklehead.
......You don't think that blindly following is scummy? It's not a good play for town, (unless you have something concrete), but I think it could be mildly scummy to follow blindly. That way if their logic turns up wrong, you have a way out of not taking any responsibility. 'It was their idea!"
LL wrote:Again, while I remember to say "I told you so..."

This is my exact reasoning for why Canuckle is townie (near 100%) as I've said over and over again.

1. His defense is townie-ish.
2. He is not WIFOM'ing.
3. Therefore, he is townie.
....Seriously? You're kidding, right LL? There are ALOT of people not wifoming who are scum....
There are also lots of people who have a townieish defense.

Those same people are happy to have someone like you playing with them, as I've stated before. You're beginning to dissapoint me LL = (
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:31 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

Ugh

no, there are not a lot of people who have a townie-ish defense
Canucklehead does have a townie-ish defense, however.

canucklehead is townietwotenitewnowteinwttowenie
It's gotten to the point where I will likely never re-evaluate my view on this unless it's a must-lynch round

I am -THAT- certain that canucklehead is townie.
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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:34 pm

Post by LuckayLuck »

Also, I am about 75% certain that at least one of Bogre / Jack is scum.
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:38 pm

Post by HackerHuck »

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IH wrote:It's only up to you how serious you take his findings. This is like someone giving us insights to who they think is suspicious is scummy, because they're "selling" information. LuckayLuck hasn't really tried to get us to follow his system, has he? The most he's pushed for is to defend people he thinks are town.
I don't disagree that it's up to others to believe whether he's right or not, but your second statement is not an accurate comparison. Let me go back to my late-night advert example for you.

Luckay is acting like this:
I input this security into my machine and it gives me a red lamp or a green light letting me know whether to buy or sell! When I plugged in "Widgets Inc." it gives me a green light, so it must be a buy!

What you say above about providing insight would be more like this:
My machine looks at the various metrics of a security and makes a determination of whether to buy or sell. Based on it's low P/E, a strong buyback program, and consistently beating earnings estimates, my machine rates it a buy!


That kind of information would be useful to the town, not just - I looked at all these names and I realised that Jack is scum!

Now, I'm not against anyone using their own playstyle/mechanics in a game, but Luckay is starting to get into the place where if you say something often enough, others begin to take it as the truth. He's also just not making much sense when he does try and give some reasons.

Just looking at his multiple posts, he's done a number of things that would tap into my scumdar if he had a more mundane playstyle - Vote Hopping, unexplained defence of others, insinuation of inside information, etc... Discounting all that for his playstyle, the fact that he's been dominating the conversation with his beliefs (again with nothing for us to go on but his word) makes me feel that he would be a safe lynch. i.e. There's a chance he's scum and if not, if he's a regular townie then it's not a big loss. On the plus side, he has brought out a lot of early game discussion.

I would also say that Luckay has tried to push his agenda. Publishing that spreadsheet wasn't just defending people he felt to be town.
IH wrote:......You don't think that blindly following is scummy? It's not a good play for town, (unless you have something concrete), but I think it could be mildly scummy to follow blindly. That way if their logic turns up wrong, you have a way out of not taking any responsibility. 'It was their idea!"
This sums up how I feel about Luckay and his "machine".

STD - Do you feel I've answered your question as well?
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by Twito »

HH wrote:Now, I'm not against anyone using their own playstyle/mechanics in a game, but Luckay is starting to get into the place where
if you say something often enough, others begin to take it as the truth.
He's also just not making much sense when he does try and give some reasons.
I don't see this happening with LL. Yes he is repeating things but who actually gives a fuck about what he is repeating.
So many times I've seen scum attack townie blaming townie of repeating things. When the things repeated actually are correct.
This time I highly doubt of them being correct though.
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:07 am

Post by Canucklehead17 »

Ok, thanks to STD for the link, that helps a good deal. Much obliged.

To the rest of you... :roll:

"Oh, he doesn't know what it means, pro-townish tell!"

"Wait, what if you're his scumbuddy because you say that's pro-townish?"

"I'm telling you! He's town since he didn't know what WIFOM meant!"

People, people, people. I asked a question about a term I wasn't familiar with. IT WAS JUST A QUESTION!

Sheesh... :lol:
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:11 am

Post by Twito »

Just waiting for IH to tell whether you already used it on other game = you lied here about not knowing it = LynchAllLyiers
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