A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Paranoia]

Unreasonable

Paranoia - His intro and only post talks only about Raising and reactions to it. He just FoSes me and Magna, doesn't vote. If you think my post was bad, why wasn't it worthy of a vote?

I did think it was bad; but since all I was basing my fos off of was one post, why vote someone based off of it? I usually wait until I have more reasoning beyond "I don't like this one possibly insignificant thing." before I vote someone. I'm also more laid back with my vote considering we have plenty of time to reach a decision; plenty of time to post and for scum to slip up in.

To Mina: I considered Macavity more suspicious at the time; honestly backing down from that for now. My suspicions of Illusion was more based on a perceived connection with Macavity. The reason I withheld from going after Richard as I read him a bit flustered at the time.

On to other pressing matters...

To Danakillsu:

I find her/him blatant picking up onto the Kleedrac wagon without a vote her testing the waters and to see if the bandwagon will indeed shift again before deadline I find that this is a likely attempt to test the waters on a possible upcoming wagon without wanting to commit to it if it can be avoided; I believe Dana is scum trying to appear town on a potential wagon on a scum buddy without condemning him unnecessarily. The fact you use a weak reasoning like "Well so much has been said already I got nothing new to contribute" does not excuse you

from providing reasoning for your suspicion.

So could you get back to me on that?

So on that note.

Vote: Kleedrac

For what I believe to be a connection with dana, I find his vote based on Drip's raise vote tying the raise votes, and in general just trying any way to justify his vote on Drip without justifying it in the slightest. I don't like the "you're all scum." comment right now as there are 18 pages so far; more than enough to get a preliminary read on several people, I would think. The "first game and wall of texts frighten me mommy " posts are trying to justify lurking and basically being Non contributive overall; the fact you've been omgusing Drip for awhile while providing NOTHING besides blatantly untrue claims just keeps making you look worse. The fact you built a case and then blithely ignored it in favor of someone you haven't even had the decency to build a case on just makes it feel like you're grasping.

This is in opposition to:

Raise: Mina

Out of what I've had the time to read and see right now, I truly believe Mina is the best person to raise at the moment; She is asking intelligent questions, doing legitimate analysis and scum hunting, and is in general leaving me with a warm fuzzy feeling. Every post of her's brings something new with it and I trust her to use the double vote wisely.

Preview Edit: In light of Dana's most recent posts, I am even more sure there's a thread between them and Klee. The entire circumstances around their vote is "well all I had was gut." thing when she was going "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO TRUE I SHOULD VOTE FOR THIS." bit is just inexcusable.

Considering a vote shift.. I'm having a hell of a time deciding who I consider worse at the moment; Dana or Klee? I am considering

Dana

far worse at the moment; it could just be blatant bandwagoning on an easy target that a loud voice is pushing for. I still stand by the opinion I think they were testing the waters around the Klee lynch and waiting for it to pick up steam before casting her lot in with it.

unvote

Vote: Danakillsu.

[LimMePls]

Eww 436. Vote Kleedrac and in the same post unvote, vote Dana? Why? That stinks of trying to buddy up to the town players on the Kleedrac wagon without actually putting your vote where your mouth is. And I don't buy it as a preview edit, dana's most recent posts were two hours and 7 posts before yours. This is about as scummy as the old "FOS my scum buddy and vote a townie" ploy.

I'm not even wild about the Mina raise, although I don't think its terrible. With the exception of that 436 is one giant scumdar alert for me.

[hasdgfas]

There's just way too much "certainty" floating around in this thread. I absolutely hate it when people just start calling other people "scum" and act like they have it all figured out and it's case-closed when the truth is they know

nothing

. They have a

hunch

. An

opinion

.

I recognize this is a "style" thing for a lot of people, and they'll flip from calling someone obv.scum to deciding they are clearly town at the drop of a hat, and then immediately press on with their next "obviously scum" target, conveniently ignoring how horribly wrong they were the last time they called someone "obv.scum" and it drives me

nuts

. Please STFU or use some damn qualifiers. When you do this you are either being dishonest or you are just being a moron.

/rant

I don't know why I bothered to type this out. Maybe I'm having a bad day or something.

Ok, this feels off. If you're going to say this, call people out, explain why you hate it or why it's scummy. It feels like you just are uncomfortable and dislike a playstyle. Why does it matter?

You've just described our playstyle.

What you fail to realize is that there is a lot of thought going into the flippant comments; we play a lot of games; the certainties are shorthand and qualifiers are assumed, so they don't need spelling out.

Your rant is, in fact, quite scummy. It's an underhanded criticism of us, without the balls of naming us, and just a big ole IIoA.

I fail to realize? No.

It is a style that annoys me greatly. Defend it and all the great results you get using it all you want, this won't change.

I also don't even know what IIoA means.

Even though it annoys you, is it scummy? if not, deal with it. This feels just like a way to ignore a player.

FoS: Axelrod

[Mikujin]

@Mikujin (419)

- In those 15 or so pages you found nothing but scummy behavior on Vezo?

I thought it best to make my case against the person I was most suspicious of rather than try to address every individual instance of suspicion I'd have come across in my 17 page read. I figured my most relevant thoughts would be the important ones to share.

[RichardGHP]

Vote: Kleedrac

If anyone really really really really REALLY wants an explanation I'll post it either tomorrow or on Friday, when I do my catching up post.

[vezopiraka]

Ahh. This game is driving me nuts.
Kelraac made really bad responses. I don't care what you would say.

unvote
vote Keldraac

[vezopiraka]

Mod: V/LA from 12 to 17 June

[Drippereth]

Eww 436. Vote Kleedrac and in the same post unvote, vote Dana?

Yes my friend, learn to recognize that the post is in the format of "FOS: buddy, vote: townie"

If Paranoia flips scum, Kleedrac is guaranteed scum, and Dana is guaranteed town.

I'm not even wild about the Mina raise, although I don't think its terrible. With the exception of that 436 is one giant scumdar alert for me.

If we can't have a majority of votes for raising someone, does that not mean we raise no one?

[danakillsu]

Look, I already said that a post where I made a case against Kleedrac was deleted, and it's going to be a pain to write it again. So just settle down for a minute.
My case on Kleedrac:
1) Constant overreaction/overstatement. Example: iso 2
2) Assuming everyone is scum until proven town (that's not how to play mafia) iso 5.
3) Hypocrisy. Example: saying Drippereth throws accusations everywhere (untrue) while saying everyone is scum.
4) Raising someone just to make sure Drippereth doesn't get raised, because Drippereth says Kleedrac is scum (OMGUS) iso 8.
5) Tries a rather defeatist lash-out against Drippereth, hoping to at least get him lynched too (iso 10)
6) Essentially gives up on using logic and reason, the only means to catch scum (iso 11)
At the very least, since he's already given up, he can't help town at all. But I think he's scum anyway.

[LimMePls]

If we can't have a majority of votes for raising someone, does that not mean we raise no one?

A Hand of the King will be raised when there is a simple majority (i.e. 14 votes). Alternatively, whoever has the most ‘raise’ votes at the time of the Day 1 lynch, will be raised.

Whichever method is used, the Hand of the King will become a double voter from the beginning of Day 2. The Hand may split the two votes. Both votes will be public.
The Hand may not be stripped of his title in any way. A new Hand will not be chosen on the Hand’s death.

If someone hits 14 raises, they will be raised. If no one hits 14, then the highest raise recipient at the end of the day will be hand. Per mod's response to my iso 13, if there is a tie no one will be raised.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why would you want Mina to explain why you did something?

Mina accused me of copying reasons from vezopiraka. I do not see where I parroted vezopiraka. Therefore, I'm wanting evidence from Mina to prove that I was parroting vezopiraka.

Now I'd like for you to answer this question. When they're called out for a scummy move, sometimes they don't see it and they need evidence to see that they actually commited a scummy act. What makes this post so different?

I have a huge problem with this post. If you aren't defending him why are you trying to undermine other players attacks on him? Furthermore, why are you

seeking

faults in a particular players arguments? Especially I doubt It, whom you are only slightly suspicious of?

1. I was attacking the case that I doubt it made on Benmage, not defending Benmage in general.

2. I was explaining to I doubt it that his case on Benmage was very poor. I asked for evidence and he gave me a quote from one of his posts. I then searched Benmage's ISO and found that I doubt it's case on Benmage was mostly flawed and thus I went after I doubt it. Not because I thought Benmage was pro-town (I do, but that wasn't the reason why I attacked I dobut it's case on him), but because I didn't like I doubt it's case on Benmage.

[Eddard Stark]

animorpherv1 has requested to be replaced (thank the Gods of the First Men), I have begun searching for a replacement.

[Eddard Stark]

Locke Lamora replaces animorpherv1 effective immediately.

Thank's Locke Lamora, and welcome to Westeros.

[Rifka Viveka]

2. I was explaining to I doubt it that his case on Benmage was very poor. I asked for evidence and he gave me a quote from one of his posts. I then searched Benmage's ISO and found that I doubt it's case on Benmage was mostly flawed and thus I went after I doubt it. Not because I thought Benmage was pro-town (I do, but that wasn't the reason why I attacked I dobut it's case on him), but because I didn't like I doubt it's case on Benmage.

Right, but benmage is a big boy and can take care of himself, plus now we cant see how he would react. Answering questions for others is also something of a scumtell. You can say you werent defending him, but the result of your action was indeed defending him

[Locke Lamora]

Hi everyone, will be catching up and posting my thoughts in the next 24 hours.

[danakillsu]

Locke:
Could you describe your old avatar for me? Seems I've played with you before, but I usually remember people by their avatars.

~Bender from Futurama iirc

[MacavityLock]

When had you ever mentioned me as a candidate for Raising? This is weird and out of the blue.

You were the first person I seriously considered to be raised period, so that was my very first post on suggesting who should be raised.

And you said it as if you had already provided reasons, which you hadn't. So, why me?

@Macavity SSBF's meta is definitely lots of FOS. I can't post to any games, because they are ongoing. It is my understand that we aren't supposed to link to ongoing games, correct? Hopefully my mentioning this is not breaking the rules, if it is, please go easy on me mod, I can't find any rule on page 1 saying not to do this.

Yes, don't do this, but thanks.

Ninja'd

Some of my last post sounds like parroting of Drippereth.

Why call this out?

@danakillsu -

This only says "If he flips scum" (which btw, is pretty much impossible) "you're scum"

Do you mean "look who he claimed to be"? Why do you assume he's telling the truth?

No, I mean who he turned out to be. There's no way he's lying when he claimed whom he claimed without a C-C. Do you doubt his claim?

And how are you so certain that it is

impossible

for him to flip scum? Especially considering you were voting for him. His claim is guaranteed town how?

Agree with xvart. Why do I have reason not to doubt his claim? Why would I expect a counterclaim here even if he was scum? Fake claims in games like are standard practice, and Renly being one of them wouldn't shock me to my core.

I did think it was bad; but since all I was basing my fos off of was one post, why vote someone based off of it? I usually wait until I have more reasoning beyond "I don't like this one possibly insignificant thing." before I vote someone. I'm also more laid back with my vote considering we have plenty of time to reach a decision; plenty of time to post and for scum to slip up in.

Not sure I understand the reason behind being so careful that early in the game.

Need to take a closer look at Kleedrac, but that AtE does look pretty awful.

I'd also like to hear more from Miku that isn't a complete tunnel.

I'm totally down with a

UnRaise, Raise: Percy

Hand-wagon.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And you said it as if you had already provided reasons, which you hadn't. So, why me?

You have been contributing a fair amount to the game. So far, you have yet to drop a scum tell in this game. On top of that, you've been one of the more reasonable people in here and I like your scum hunting tactic. You're currently one of the people I'm considering raising if Mina doesn't get raised or if Mina starts to act less pro-town then she is right now.

Why call this out?

I did not want people to accuse me of parroting later on, as I knew I was guilty of parroting some of Drippereth's last post.

[danakillsu]

Agree with xvart. Why do I have reason not to doubt his claim? Why would I expect a counterclaim here even if he was scum? Fake claims in games like are standard practice, and Renly being one of them wouldn't shock me to my core.

I guess it's possible it's a fake claim. I have to admit that, obviously. And maybe it is considered by some to be probable. But from my perspective (not knowing the books really well) it seems like this is a pretty important character, and that a claim of him should not be taken lightly.

[danakillsu]

btw, anyone notice how scummy xvart is acting in relation to me? I make three excellent points (if I do say so myself) some of them with questions, and when he pops up again, he talks about only two things. One was my paranthetical statement in the first point, not the first point itself, and the other was my response to a point somebody ELSE made about my post. In other words, he never dealt with any of my three actual points. Talk about selective responses. Wish I could vote for both him and Kleedrac.

[Raivann]

I was Jon Snow in the mini and fakeclaimed I could get 1 kill with my Direwolf.

did you claim that the Direwolf was another player in the game? And that it got a kill when you died? Because that's what Richard's claiming. Not that he gets a kill.

Raise: CrymeaRiver

I like his aggresive RVS play and he wants it.

What did you like about it? Why is wanting a double vote a good reason to give it to someone?

No, but it was an avenge kill nonethelss.

I agreed w/him and it seemed genuine. I feel like I can read aggressive players better.
No, not by itself. But you'd be surprised what you get just by asking for it.

At this point I believe I can't appeal to the usual sense of logic and reason as there are trains running on myself and Richard with no case but the logical case I built on CryMeARiver and the case Mikujin built on vezopiraka go completely unanswered in any way! No one has defended CMAR or Vez nor has anyone agreed and voted. But the random loose bandwagons on me and Richard just keep gaining unreasoned votes which no one appears to see as scummy?! I feel as though I'm playing this game in another language here, you play in a very different style than I'm used to. As for insulting me or questioning my age well not only was that unnecessary but it's pretty much guaranteed I won't be playing on this site again. Enjoy your game guys, when I flip town just kill the hydra thing and we'll call it even Note that from here on out I will only post to answer directed questions and won't be contributing more ammo onto your trains, thanks.

Call me a sucker, but I believe Kleedrac here. He seems to be genuinely pissed.

[Percy]

Hi all, been a little busy lately, but I'll get caught up and post within 24 hours.

[Raivann]

Raivann, you have absolutely no right to call my claim BS with no reasoning. If you're going to attempt to tear my claim to shreds, at least say why. Jesus.

He sounds like he just want rid of a townie, and I'd wager that he knows who Ser Loras is.

How could I possibly know who Ser Loras is?
Like a special power I have?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Locke.

I like the DGBish intuition over logic. I think the aggressive style makes scum uncomfortable because they lack control. If their buddy gets fingered they cannot use logic to extract him from the lynch, and when they flail at the accuser it reveals them. At any moment they could go from snug as a bug to being under heat
Plus its a popular misconception if you dont post reasoning, you dont have any reasoning.

Funny that it works like a double edged sword when applied against Town. And of course it’s only a strong playstyle when people are willing to just blindly follow the ‘gut’ read. Too many players unwilling to follow along and the bandwagon, however accurately aimed it may be, and the heat just fizzles.

It’s also a misconception that people asking for reasoning behind votes is scummy, as most players aren’t mind-readers.

I thought it best to make my case against the person I was most suspicious of rather than try to address every individual instance of suspicion I'd have come across in my 17 page read. I figured my most relevant thoughts would be the important ones to share.

So the player you found most suspicious happens to coincide with the player who (IMO) is by far the weakest link in the game, pure lurkers aside? At this point assuming we have a Vig of some sort I’d suggest vezo falls into pure VI territory and would be a logical vig target. He’s the type of player, as others have noted, that we are going to learn nothing useful from his lynch.

I did not want people to accuse me of parroting later on, as I knew I was guilty of parroting some of Drippereth's last post.

Admitting that you were parroting doesn’t make the suspicious nature of it fade away. You’ve simply done the job of anyone who would make the point for them.

[MacavityLock]

I did not want people to accuse me of parroting later on, as I knew I was guilty of parroting some of Drippereth's last post.

Admitting that you were parroting doesn’t make the suspicious nature of it fade away. You’ve simply done the job of anyone who would make the point for them.

SSBF: Scummy, due to apologizing for what is unnecessary to apologize for.
Magna: Scummier, due to latching on to "parroting" without looking at context, attempting an easy dig.

In relation to any parroting comments, DethHydra and SSBF cross-posted, as would be obvious if you looked. Don't like either SSBF or Magna in this exchange.