All quotes without name are pj's.
petroleumjelly wrote:
klebian wrote:Well, I'm a soldier as well. Unfortunately, unlike dahen, I HAVEN'T been dropping hints throughout the game, because I don't consider myself a likley nightkill, and I also didn't think the gorillas knew that they were looking for someone, so I didn't think there's much one can do to drop hints when the person you're dropping them for doesn't have a clue...
Interesting. Klebian, please clarify something for me. You say you have a Traitor role, but you also say you didn't think the scum were looking for you. Question:
How did you suppose to ever be reunited with your Gorilla Group if they weren't looking for you?
I was under the impression that what my PM meant was that I would get 'found' if my group attempted to kill me. I didn't realize that there was actual 'hunting' for gorillas "going on". That may just be inexperience; I am not familiar with traitor roles and I guess I just assumed incorrectly. That's why I said in my quoted post 'I don't consider myself a likley nightkill'. This is just me being stupid.
klebian wrote:PJ is obviously confirmed, since he was first to claim...
Although I will not dispute that I am a Gorilla, that's a dangerous attitude. It is more than possible that the scum were given the Gorilla Soldier role PM (if they are all uniform).
I don't know if they're all uniform; the way you described your role is the same as my PM. I considered this, however I dismissed it because I think that the scum have earned enough of an advantage with 3 days of town confusion. Similar to your logic about godfathers/millers, I do not think that the mod would give the scum a generic townie PM coupled with the entire town thinking they are the scum.
I've been giving the possibility of Godfathers/Millers a thinking, and have come to the conclusion that if we're dealing with that sort of role, Stoofer has really screwed us. I would certainly think the advantage of having all the townspeople thinking they were scum (and thus wanting to lynch faster, even perhaps forcing townspeople to fake-claim [InHim's claim still looks fake to me]) waiting to be recruited was huge enough for him to forego using Cop-immunity.
It does not even appear that we are told the nature of dead roles, and I am starting to wonder if Thok was on the right track for the N1 kill - it may have been "prearranged" simply to confirm to the Gorillas that they are indeed, scum, and that they began the game with the "advantage" of having killed the Doctor!
Of course, if there is a Space Monkey Godfather, I would certainly hope they would be revealed as a "Space Monkey Godfather". But there lies the problem: if the point of the set-up is to continually make the Gorillas think they were scum, Stoofer
would not
ever put down "Space Monkey Godfather" or "Space Monkey Goon" and so on, because that would give it away. And since I think it would be drastically unfair to not reveal to the town when/if they have killed the Godfather, that leads me to believe the chances of such a role in this game particularly unlikely.
I agree with your first paragraph. Unless the scum are around 3 in number (I guess not counting SpeedyKQ [which, by the way, I must mention; it's kinda unfortunate if the only reason he died night 1 was to throw town off track]), it's quite improbable that stoofer would load the scum up with advantage upon advantage. Thok seems correct; I see that all we were told about CES's role was that he was a space monkey, and all the gorillas have all been gorillas.
Notably, I had called StD obviously town earlier, simply because he seemed to be fingering Gorillas left and right. That's taking a double-meaning for me now. His "Bird + InHim > 0 Scum" post comes the fastest to my mind, in that he may have known both of them would come up Gorillas, hence "scum", which would make him look better so long as the town was left in the dark about the nature of the game. I would think he would be smart enough to distance after watching four Gorillas straight vote for CES if he were a Space Monkey. Of course, I would expect him to bandwagon even if he is a Gorilla. *sigh* This whole scum-town mechanic is really screwing with me.
This seems like a very interesting point. It's possible that StD didn't think through all consequences that would result when the setup was found out. That quote in fact is very strong, and it seems that you have made a very strong point against StD.
Glork only gets orange because I am more sure that Thok and Dahen are Gorillas than he is. After skimming his posts, I could definitely see him acting similarly to his play this game if he were actually a Space Monkey. He's prolly a Gorilla, but I'm more confident of those in red.
PJ, I reread the last few pages, and I feel you're being a bit to naiive about Glork. It's interesting that you guys have been butting heads for the past 2.5 days, and today after your claim, he accepts your claim, agrees that monkeys are scum, and now you're fairly convinced he's town. I believe that a space monkey could've easily made 533 as a gorilla. At this point, I think a smart monkey would've seen that their 'cover' for the game was blown, and decided to reveal the truth. Obviously, others were discovering it as well, so it's quite possible that glork made good use of the perfect opportunity to become buddies with one of the most influential town members. Not much of his post is written from a point of view that I would consider solely gorilla, and I as well am feeling that glork is not as confirmed as we may think.
Klebian, in addition to my earlier question, could you please explain your hesitation on hammering CES in more detail and rampant FoS's (instead of a vote on somebody else)?
As you pointed out in this same post, day 3 was much, MUCH too short. I felt that thok made a great post to start a wagon, and every just jumped on soon after that. My reasons are in post 508. I didn't think the arguement against CES was strong enough to warrant such a fast wagon. It should be noted that fritz and pooky have been wagoning and posting no content just as much as CES, which I pointed out. And I should also say that the case against CES was initially from glork. Thok said "I believe lynching him is in the interest of the majority of us. " and everyone else bandwagoned. I skimmed through the thread, and the only arguement against CES was (around post 390) that he was bandwagoning a lot, posting mainly 1 line posts, and that he needed a real explanation for this even though that's something he does all the time. I didn't think this was a case that warranted a lynch, or at least, not such a quick lynch. I was willing to hammer, but I wanted a stronger case presented, or at least some time of discussion.
To answer the second part, the main thing is that you can't vote 3 people. I was not happy with the CES wagon. A wagon is fine, but there needs to be a solid basis, and I was not seeing the basis in CES's wagon. I fosed the people who I thought were bandwagoning recklessly on someone who was being lynched for bandwagoning recklessly.
In other events, I'm not understanting this:
dahen, 521 wrote:Good morning Thok. Did it go as planned?
Also, we had no night kill tonight, but I don't know if that's very much to be happy about. We have only had gorillas killed that way anyway.
I smell some funny bananas.
Did what go as planned? As far as I can see, dahen and thok are not connected in any way, and thus, there should not be anything that dahen and thok are discussing that we don't know. I guess by this point dahen had figured the setup out, although he didn't have any other information that other people (pj, me, other soldiers) didn't. This post needs explanation.
