Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[BloodCovenent]

I guess i'm not the only one that doesn't understand it Mac.

[Chinaman]

I have zero problem picking a wagon at this time.

I will hammer Budja (I believe he is at L-2). I would just vote for him now, but I do not want the possibility of stopping discussion even with this little of time left.

I have also seen a recent interesting fact. I see budja, imag, and mac all voting for snowbunny. I then see all 3 of those same people vote for BC on one page, 2 of which were one right after the other AAAANNNNNDDDD with little to no reason for switching their vote from snowbunny to BC in the posts they switch their votes in! This made me delve deeper. Take a look at this:

Imag's votes:

Nice work Macavity. Already one scum is caught in a web of his own weaving.

JL, Jason (now Dana), LL (now kik), Snow, BC.

Mac's votes: JL, Net, Snow, BC

Budja's votes: LL (now kik), Fuzzy, JL, BC, Fos: Snow and Dana, Snow, BC(iso 14, my bolding)

Josh: Scummy <- initial uncertainty, AtE, call for prods.
Locke: "meta" scum read. (dexter mafia)
Net: "meta" town read. (ongoing unfortunately)
Snow Bunny: Mildly Town

Macavity: Town, agree with pretty much all he says

Snow_Bunny: null - mildly town. I obv. disagree with her reasoning but if Josh town -> Snow likely town IMO.
jasonT1981: no read
ConfidAnon: no read
Chinaman: uncertain, leaning newb-town. Still a bit of a opportunistic feel.
Fuzzyman: town

imaginality: leaning town

BloodCovenent: null

Not once have they voted each other and often they are on the same wagons. The snow and BC wagons are prolly the weakest of them all.

I think DS hit the nail on the head with p560 as well. Budja has had the highest wagon count for awhile when Mac posts his p543. I had been on Budja's wagon as well and have said that he is on my scum list still. If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

If budja flips scum, mac and imag have some fun explaining to do. If all 3 aren't scum, I would bet 2 of them are.

On a side note, I was thinking about JL and his PR. It is very possible that if we have only 2 scum, JL's role could be a modification to a serial killer OR he could have flat out lied about being able to only do it once.

Questions/Comments/Thoughts?

[BloodCovenent]

I guess i'm going back to the "easy" wagon.

Unvote:
Vote: budja

(L-1)

Budja wagon Go Go Go (>'')>

[Chinaman]

actually, you voted budja in p557 already so with your vote included in my previous post, Budja is still at L-2. With deadline coming fast, I hope to hear from everyone before we lynch Budja. Especially curious to hear from the lurkers but want to hear what those I have accused have to say as well.

[BloodCovenent]

Oh, good catch, i thought I was still voting Net.

[imaginality]

I've noticed my thoughts this game have been pretty much in line with MacavityLock's a lot of the time.

Itz cos he's smart like wot i is.

I think he and I think similarly. From my perspective I don't think he's buddying up to me deliberately so it makes me feel more confident in him also being town.

If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

That's flat-out wrong. Mac said:

You are my top choice for a lynch of the players that could feasibly be lynched today.

He didn't say he wanted to vote the players who could most feasibly be lynched, he said he wanted to choose his vote from among the players who could most feasibly be lynched.

On a side note, I was thinking about JL and his PR. It is very possible that if we have only 2 scum, JL's role could be a modification to a serial killer OR he could have flat out lied about being able to only do it once.

I agree about this bit. It's possible it's an SK 'kill' method.

[imaginality]

EBWOP: He didn't say he wanted to vote the

player

who could most feasibly be lynched, he said he wanted to choose his vote from among the players who could most feasibly be lynched. You could rephrase his sentence as "Of the players that could feasibly be lynched today, you are my top choice for a lynch."

[MacavityLock]

If Mac really wanted to vote for the person who could most "feasibly be lynched today", he would have voted Budja. Easy. Mac's p543 is a blatant lie.

Seriously, if you're going to put what I said in quotes, and then put other words around it, it'll be pretty obvious where you're changing my meaning entirely. I very much did not say I wanted to vote for the person whom it was "most feasible to lynch". I said that I needed to choose from the set of players who were feasible to lynch, and from the way I was reading the game, that set was/is Budja and BC.

If for some reason my vote is needed to hammer Budja, and a BC lynch becomes infeasible, I will vote Budja.

Re: Lyman's stumping as potential SK method, yeah, I already brought this up as a possibility.

[Budja]

Great minds think alike .

I'm not going to flip scum and I say now that I have a reasonable town read on both of them.

Mac didn't lie . Read properly.
---
Kik has not said anything yet despite posting elsewhere. If BC is scum, Kik is a good partner choice.

[BloodCovenent]

---
Kik has not said anything yet despite posting elsewhere. If BC is scum, Kik is a good partner choice.

How does that make Kik a likely partner?

[Chinaman]

hey mac, do you think it's odd that imag decided to post in your defense before you? I sure as hell do. In fact, I think it's even more suspicious given your voting patterns and the fact that we are really close to deadline. I will tell you what I think about it after you tell me how you feel about it.

I honestly think this pegs you as pretty obv scum at this point imag. You are either hardcore buddying up to a town mac or you are covering for your scum buddy in case he didn't get around to posting before lynch.

Mac, please also explain to me how you can call Budja the easy lynch choice (ie, i read you saying that as Budja has played scummy as hell and is an easy target because people often like to lynch scummy play......correct me if I'm wrong) yet when it comes down to the 2 choices of feasible lynches, you think BC is the more scummy due to....uh....voting patterns? Let me say that I do realize that is part of my suspicion of you and imag, but I'm lynching the most scummy of the 3 of you first...which is Budja.... On that same note though, how can you justify your vote of BC yet ignore my thoughts surrounding you, budja, and imag's voting patterns?

Something just isn't adding up here. We have you 3 all posting here, and still none of you are even remotely suspicious of one another????? Lets look at the most recent posts in easy to read format (or at least exactly how it comes off).

Imag defends Mac
Mac defends himself with the same defense Imag gave a 1/2 hour earlier.
Budja has a town read on both of them and defends Mac with same argument.

Here is the breakdown of my problems with this exchange. Imag defends Mac. Why would a townie defend someone else? It's day one. Even in a town PR, you have zero way of knowing that anyone else is town (except me and my partner of course but I highly doubt there are 2 groups of masons). Also note that while I attacked Imag as well as Mac and Budja, he doesn't defend any of my thoughts on him and his connection with the other 2 but instead solidifies the connection (read scum-slip).

Next up we have Mac rewording Imag's post. If I'm town mac here, I have to ask myself why in the world is Imag speaking for me? Does he do that? No, he doesn't even mention Imag. Instead, he give a reluctant confirmation he will lynch Budja if the smaller wagon he is on doesn't go through.

Next we have the red-headed stepchild Budja. I have no way of seeing this post as anything a townie would say. If you're town Budja, and VT at that, how the hell do you know who is and isn't town. How bout before you go down, you give us your scum list? None of the rest of us townies give a rats ass who you think is town. We are trying to find scum, not town. Add in the fact you have yet to really try and defend yourself, makes you very hard to read as town. Needless to say, I highly doubt your flip will be anything but scum.

Oh, and to Budja's scumbuddies...I dare you to NK me tonight. pansies! bwahahahahaha

[Budja]

Why would a townie defend someone else?

Cos your attack was very wrong.

If you're town Budja, and VT at that, how the hell do you know who is and isn't town.

By scumhunting and getting town reads.

I could continue but basically everything you say is wrong.

Here are the reads I am most confident with:
You are town (but a "little" off on your reads)
Net is town.
Imag/ML are prob town.
---
Locke/Kik is leaning scum.
BC is scum.

[imaginality]

A few stray thoughts on BC's posts:

11 - fishing
33 - the way he rides Chinaman's post here is an easy lazy way to get on a wagon, echoed in another of his votes later on
39 - the start of this post completely evades the point of DeathSauce's post (which was "Why aren't you scumhunting?" not, "Why did you unvote Budja?")
44 - yey, omgus
48 - the 'both scum' possible-slip
58 - worried scum are angry scum
60 - this mistake again shows how he's eager to back up other people's suspicions whenever possible
69 - doesn't comment on the case on Locke despite asking to see it (if BC flips scum Locke might be a good bet for scumbuddy)

[MacavityLock]

hey mac, do you think it's odd that imag decided to post in your defense before you? I sure as hell do. In fact, I think it's even more suspicious given your voting patterns and the fact that we are really close to deadline. I will tell you what I think about it after you tell me how you feel about it.

Do I think it's strange? Yeah, I do, actually. Do I think it's a big obvious neon "SCUM" sign? No, I don't. It is not something I'm interested in pursuing today, as we have less than 2 days remaining to deadline. But, yes, it is something worth noting.

I honestly think this pegs you as pretty obv scum at this point imag. You are either hardcore buddying up to a town mac or you are covering for your scum buddy in case he didn't get around to posting before lynch.

I thought you were going to wait for me to answer before giving your commentary. Weird.

Mac, please also explain to me how you can call Budja the easy lynch choice (ie, i read you saying that as Budja has played scummy as hell and is an easy target because people often like to lynch scummy play......correct me if I'm wrong) yet when it comes down to the 2 choices of feasible lynches, you think BC is the more scummy due to....uh....voting patterns? Let me say that I do realize that is part of my suspicion of you and imag, but I'm lynching the most scummy of the 3 of you first...which is Budja.... On that same note though, how can you justify your vote of BC yet ignore my thoughts surrounding you, budja, and imag's voting patterns?

Well before BC's second vote on Budja, there had been a Big Wagon (TM) on Budja. (I know it got up to L-2, not sure if it got to L-1.) Putting a vote back on someone like Budja once Big Wagon-Vanilla Claim has occurred will probably not raise all that much suspicion. Therefore, easy vote. No, I don't think Budja has "played scummy as hell", and I have said as much multiple times before.

I'm not ignoring your thoughts on the voting patterns of me, Budja, and imag. You're right, none of us have voted for either of the others. I'm going to make a guess here, imag and Budja, correct me if I'm wrong: None of us are particularly high on any of the others' scumlists. How does this make any of us more likely to be scum?

[imaginality]

Chinaman, I agree that when asked about

motives for a particular comment/vote/etc.

, answering on someone else's behalf is scummy. And to an extent, coming in to defend someone who's being attacked is something scum might do depending on the situation. However, I don't think there's anything scummy about pointing out when an attack is based on a misinterpretation (whether deliberate or accidental) of the attacked player's post. In this case, it was obvious your attack on Mac was flawed. What benefit is there in getting Mac to say so himself? Whether he is town or scum, your attack on him was flawed. It's very different to putting a motive into his mouth.

[imaginality]

(Admittedly, earlier in the day, there's a possible argument against doing what I just did, because you could argue it's better to wait and see if there's scum around who are willing to jump on a wagon based on your flawed attack before I (or whoever) points out the flaw in the attack. So, keeping quiet could expose opportunistic scum. However, at this point in the day that's not going to happen.)

[Chinaman]

well, the 4 of us could go round and round with BC popping in to comment as well, but I'd like to get some other thoughts.

Basically it all boils down to me not seeing any of ya'lls posts between 569-572 being anything I would write in response to the post I wrote. I can humbly admit I read Mac's post a little off and took it to mean any lynch of eligible candidates would be ok, and just thought it odd he didn't pick the largest based on that, but I can see where out of the 2 most likely wagons, he has BC as scummier than Budja. I personally don't, but I digress, my scumdar isn't based on that anymore.

I still have voting patterns and responses you all have given as of late. They are all just really off to me and not how I see a townie reacting to them.

Imag, had you not been included in my suspicious list in the my post after which you defended Mac, I could buy the explanation you gave in p578, but seeing as I suspected you as well, I can't buy you just mentioning my thoughts on Mac and ignoring the thoughts on you as well.

Could I be totally off? Of course, I only know of one townie for sure. Do I think I'm totally off? Absolutely not. Mac's p577 is the closest to a townie post in response to what I've said thus far as any of you have given. Problem is it came only after I mentioned it didn't come before.

But I digress. I'm not going to go round and round with people I have suspicions about. Once others decide to chime in, we can start anew. Tomorrow (real time) should be interesting to say the least.

[Chinaman]

I will ask you (Mac and Imag) this though. In Budja's most recent posts, why do you think these would be coming from a townie over coming from scum? Everything he writes screams scum to me...how am I (and apparently 4 others) so very wrong and it is you 2 who are right?

[imaginality]

Imag, had you not been included in my suspicious list in the my post after which you defended Mac, I could buy the explanation you gave in p578, but seeing as I suspected you as well, I can't buy you just mentioning my thoughts on Mac and ignoring the thoughts on you as well.

I didn't ignore your thoughts on me:

I've noticed my thoughts this game have been pretty much in line with MacavityLock's a lot of the time. Itz cos he's smart like wot i is. I think he and I think similarly. From my perspective I don't think he's buddying up to me deliberately so it makes me feel more confident in him also being town.

That was my response to your point against me, given that your point against me was only that I seem to be too closely aligned with Mac (and Budja). So I commented on that connection.

[Chinaman]

Oh, and Mac, I WAS going to wait but decided it didn't really matter at this point. I meant to take out the part about waiting for you to answer. /shrug

Btw, I'm not proved town yet and you all think my attacks are full of holes yet none of you are saying I'm scum and just lying about being a Mason. Not saying that this is a tell for you all, but I will say it shows me that some (if not all) of you already know I'm town (cuz...you know...you're scum). It's a very small footnote in a growing list, but it's there for me at least. (I know, I attack Net for trying to lynch me and out my partner before it's time and I attack you all for not mentioning it as a possibility....life just so isn't fair!)

[Budja]

You are crazy.
You are also very likely to be town.

[MacavityLock]

I will ask you (Mac and Imag) this though. In Budja's most recent posts, why do you think these would be coming from a townie over coming from scum? Everything he writes screams scum to me...how am I (and apparently 4 others) so very wrong and it is you 2 who are right?

Now you're just directly asking us to defend him. Isn't defending people scummy?

Why are his posts more likely to be coming from scum? I seriously haven't seen any convincing arguments yet.

Btw, I'm not proved town yet and you all think my attacks are full of holes yet none of you are saying I'm scum and just lying about being a Mason. Not saying that this is a tell for you all, but I will say it shows me that some (if not all) of you already know I'm town (cuz...you know...you're scum). It's a very small footnote in a growing list, but it's there for me at least. (I know, I attack Net for trying to lynch me and out my partner before it's time and I attack you all for not mentioning it as a possibility....life just so isn't fair!)

Given the mason claim, you're not the person to test today. You still haven't answered my questios about how you're provably or disprovably anything.

[Chinaman]

Yes imag, but you commented on it with a positive feel for Mac vs suspicion. How you can not be suspicious of every little detail in a game like Mafiascum when playing town is beyond me. Hell, if my role PM didn't specifically tell me that I knew my partner was of like mind, I would suspect that person as well! It's part of being town. You don't worry about your town reads as it's a scums job to look as town as possible (meaning agreeing with town when they are on the road to mislynching). As town, you worry about minor details that don't always make sense. This is something you've failed to do over and over again when it concerns Budja and Mac. That is where I'm coming from. The same could be said of Mac in reference to you and Budja (minus p577).

*last post without other peoples comments...I swear.*

[imaginality]

I will ask you (Mac and Imag) this though. In Budja's most recent posts, why do you think these would be coming from a townie over coming from scum?

Most of Budja's recent ones look better than some of the earlier ones did, at least as I recall. Looking back from the most recent:

iso 67: the scum list here is a bit minimal, I'll grant you that
iso 66: seems fine
iso 65: getting people to choose a wagon (and thereby get their opinions on the merits of the wagons on record for us to look back at tomorrow) with deadline approaching is pro-town (scum here might be more likely to strongly urge those people to vote BC, not to choose for themselves what's best)
iso 64: reminding people deadline's approaching is fine
iso 63: fits with iso 62
iso 62: null, could come from scum or town

[ortolan]

Twenty first vote count

Budja (5): Josh Lyman, Fuzzyman, Snow_Bunny, DeathSauce, BloodCovenent
BloodCovenent (3): Budja, imaginality, MacavityLock
Netopalis (1): Chinaman
Josh Lyman (1): danakillsu

Not voting (2): kikuchiyo, Netopalis

7 to lynch.

Just a reminder that the deadline is still set for Wednesday the 13th, 10pm, AEST time (22 hours from this post) - this will not be extended under any circumstances. Without a majority no-one will be lynched.