Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[destructor]

.::] Final Day 3 Vote Count [::.

Mizzy (4)

- Y, gorckat, Incognito, Ripley

Incognito (1)

- jerubbaal²

gorckat (1)

- Mizzy

Not Voting (1) - ooba

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The evening sun was covered by overcast, laying a murky and uncomfortable light across Nubigena. For the first time since the storm, a light rain began to fall.

Mizzy had been taken by both arms and dragged to the lynching stool. Despite her protests, no one had said a word. They all knew the weight of this moment, how their very lives hung in the balance. But they had made a decision and Mizzy

was

going to die. Just as the noose was placed around Mizzy's neck, ooba spoke out.

"No! Wait, something's wrong!"

He moved towards Mizzy, intending to help her down, but before he reached her, Incognito spoke.

"ooba, step back," he pulled out a pistol and pointed it at ooba's chest before going on, "It's too late for her. Just like it's too late for you, all of you."

ooba stopped in his track, eyes wide.

"This can't be happening!" cried jerubbaal and jumped at Incognito, wrestling him to the floor.

Seizing the opportunity, ooba ran again to assist Mizzy who was nervously looking on. A gunshot suddenly rang out and ooba cried out in pain. From behind him, Ripley stood, the barrel of his pistol smoking. ooba collapsed forward, looking up at Mizzy and mouthing the words "I'm sorry," before falling lifelessly to the floor.

jerubbaal had managed to knock Incoginto's gun out of his hands. The two were wrestling each other on the ground, both becoming drenched in mud as the rainfall intensified.

"No, you can't win now," Incognito said, "Just like Enki said, there can only be one end, and it's not yours. You've lost, don't you get it?"

With that, Incognito struck jerubbaal's jaw, startling him, then wrapped his hands around his neck and pushed down on his windpipe. jerubbaal's eyes widened and he began flailing his arms as he desperately tried to breath. Incognito's grip only grew tighter and soon jerubbaal was dead.

Nearby, Y had reached down and picked up the pistol Incognito had dropped. He now had it aimed straight at gorckat. gorckat, who had stood watching the slaughter unfolding before him looked Y in the eyes. He thought about what was happening, thinking that if he could get to his equipment, he might have been able to save ooba and jerubbaal. But did he really want to? Quick as lighting, gorckat drew his own gun and shot Y right between the eyes. Yes, gorckat could save a life if he wanted to but he was just as ready to take them. After watching Y's body fall to the ground he turned and faced his partners.

"That turned out well," he said with a smile.
"Yes, it did, considering all things," Ripley replied, patting gorckat on the back, "Your uncle Aleard never said anything about you being such a good shot."
"So, what do we do with this one," Incognito said, glancing at Mizzy who still stood with a noose around her neck.
"You're all monsters," she said with utter contempt. She was devastated by her helplessness.
"I really don't appreciate that," Incognito replied, raising his gun at her.
"No, wait," said Ripley, pulling Incognito's arm down, "Let's pay the townsfolk one last homage. Let's give them what they voted for."

One final time, the stool was pulled away. Mizzy fell. The last thing she saw before he neck snapped were the smiling faces of the Nubigenan Mafia.

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Mizzy

- Townsperson (Lynched Day 3)

ooba

- Townsperson (Killed in Endgame Day 3)

jerubbaal²

- Townsperson (Killed in Endgame Day 3)

Y

- Townsperson (Killed in Endgame Day 3)

The Nubigenan Mafia - Incognito, Ripley and gorckat - win!

[destructor]

Near received this role:

Gunsmith Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

The sun has set and moonlight fills your workshop, casting eery shadows across the walls as a storm begins raging outside. You sit patiently at a worktable polishing a piece of metal. You could easily turn the lights on but you've found that you're more perceptive in moonlight.

Flashes of lighting strike followed by booming thunder as the storm intensifies, wind howling and rain drops thumping against the walls of you house. Suddenly, from the town's pub, you hear a loud bang. Even through the deafening roar of the rain you recognise the sound as a gunshot. You are, after all, a Gunsmith. Having spent years and countless hours working with the finest firearms Nubigena has ever seen, you could see, or hear, one a mile away.

Seconds later the ground beneath you shakes and you hear heavy rumbling and sounds of a vicious river all around you. You grip on to your worktable that is shaking uncontrollably until almost at once the rumbling and storm cease...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As a

Gunsmith

, you are able to search one player's house for guns each Night by sending me their name in a PM. If your search goes unhindered you will receive the result "Loaded" or "Unloaded".

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

After 72 hours of inactivity without notice, you will receive a prod from me.

avinshav received this role:

Vigilante Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

Night is setting in as a fierce storm begins to form. You are standing by a window in your house as heavy raindrops plummet to the earth around you. You've been watching someone who has past your house night after night. Someone who, walking the streets at this time of the day, could not possibly be up to any good.

The townspeople of Nubigena have sat by idly for too long, law enforcement being anything but efficient, as bodies have been turning up, thugs have been roaming the streets and crime has steadily risen. Tonight, with your firearm at your side, you have decided to take matters into your own hands.

You watch as your unsuspecting target rounds a corner and stops to lights a cigarette. This is your chance! You quietly open your window, raise your gun and steady your aim, ignoring the cacophonous storm around you in your determination. But before you can shoot, you hear another gunshot from the direction of Nubigena's local pub. Only seconds later, the wind blows viciously, knocking you back and slamming your window shut. You hear what sounds like a rapid river and boulders crashing to the ground as everything around you shakes. Then, almost at once, the rumbling and storm cease and you are left in silence...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As a

Vigilante

you may attempt to kill a player each Night by sending me their name in a PM. If your attempt is successful, the player will die.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

You must

Unvote

before placing another vote.

Any votes placed without unvoting first will not be counted

.

Fat_Tony (replaced by Y), Imat (replaced by jerubbaal²), Mafiaplayer (replaced by Mizzy), Sammich (replaced by Niv), jerubbaal, XReyoX (replaced by ooba) and Lowell received this role:

Townsperson Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

The sun has set and moonlight streams into your living room. A storm has formed outside and you're glad you're not out there in it. But the storm isn't the only reason to stay indoors. Crime has risen in the town of Nubigena and bodies have been turning up with increasing frequency.

As you sit in contemplation, you hear a loud gunshot from the direction of the town's pub. You jump up in a start but are quickly knocked back down as the ground shakes violently and you hear what sounds like a ferocious river and loud rumbling all around you. All at once, silence returns and the storm ends...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As a

Townsperson

you have no special abilities besides your wits and your vote. Use them well.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

There is a 3 prod limit. Another 72 hours of inactivity without notice will be get you replaced. This is negotiable.

Incognito received this role:

Mafia Goon (1) Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

As you had been instructed, you and thephantom were waiting at the hideout. A new member of the family was to arrive tonight and Aleard himself was going to introduce you to them. Aleard was your Godfather, the man who took you from rags to riches, only asking in return your devoted loyalty... and the occasional hit, which he'd been requesting more regularly of late.

"What do you think the big deal is with this new guy?" thephantom ask.

You shrug in response, flipping a coin and staring outside at the storm which is intensifying. Lighting strikes and thunder roars.

You both jump at once when you hear a loud gunshot coming from the local pub.

"What the hell was that?" you ask reaching for your gun and coat.

The two of you waste no time and make for the door. Before you get there the storm breaks out of control, wind howling and rain falling like a waterfall. The streets flood like a river, the water rushing with tremendous force, demolishing anything in its path. The ground shakes violently and you are both knocked off your feet. Almost as swiftly as it started, the storm dies away and you look at each other in stunned silence...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As a

Mafia Goon

you make a Mafia group consisting of

thephantom

and one other player who will be revealed to you after Day 1. Each Night, you may speak privately with each other here: Mini 568 - Nubigena Mafia Night talking forum [link removed by request], and choose a player to kill. One of you may PM me the name of the target and so will attempt to make the kill.

You may only communicate privately during Night.

You win when Mafia make the majority of the living, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

Once a player is dead, they cannot contribute anymore to the game. They are not to post

anything

besides a single simple "Bah!" or "Go town!" post.

thephantom (replaced by Ripley) received this role:

Mafia Goon (2) Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

As you had been instructed, you and Incognito were waiting at the hideout. A new member of the family was to arrive tonight and Aleard himself was going to introduce you to them. Aleard was your Godfather, the man who took you from rags to riches, only asking in return your devoted loyalty... and the occasional hit, which he'd been requesting more regularly of late.

"What do you think the big deal is with this new guy?" you ask Incognito.

He shrugs in response, flipping a coin and staring outside at the storm which is intensifying. Lighting strikes and thunder roars.

You both jump at once when you hear a loud gunshot coming from the local pub.

"What the hell was that?" Incognito asks reaching for his gun and coat.

The two of you waste no time and make for the door. Before you get there the storm breaks out of control, wind howling and rain falling like a waterfall. The streets flood like a river, the water rushing with tremendous force, demolishing anything in its path. The ground shakes violently and you are both knocked off your feet. Almost as swiftly as it started, the storm dies away and you look at each other in stunned silence...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As a

Mafia Goon

you make a Mafia group consisting of

Incognito

and one other player who will be revealed to you after Day 1. Each Night, you may speak privately with each other here: Mini 568 - Nubigena Mafia Night talking forum [link removed by request], and choose a player to kill. One of you may PM me the name of the target and so will attempt to make the kill.

You may only communicate privately during Night.

You win when Mafia make the majority of the living, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

Once a player is dead, they cannot contribute anymore to the game. They are not to post

anything

besides a single simple "Bah!" or "Go town!" post.

the_cat_herder (replaced by gorckat) received this role:

Mafia Doctor Role PM

.::] Your role [::.

Thunder strikes and you awake with a start. You arrived in Nubigena just hours ago after being contacted by Aleard, your uncle and the local Mafia Godfather, who had decided that the services of a doctor would be valuable to his family. In his letter he had named two others, named Incognito and thephantom, who you would be meeting later tonight. The journey had been a long one and on arriving you had laid down for a short nap. But not short enough, it seemed. Looking at your watch you realise that you were meant to meet your uncle at a pub called "Mother's Pitcher" ten minutes ago.

A storm had started and seemed to be growing by the second. You look out the window, wondering whether or not you are willing to brave the storm. Suddenly you hear a loud gunshot coming from the town. Your heart skips a beat.

Uncle Aleard

, you think. You get ready to run out to see what is happening but before you make it to the door the storm blows out of control and you see water flooding like rapids through the streets, crashing into buildings, tearing them down. The ground shakes beneath you and you are knocked to the floor. Then all at once the storm dies and all is silent...

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This tale continues here: Mini 568 - Nubigena

As the

Mafia Doctor

you may choose a player to protect each night. So long as your protection is successful, your target will not die. You cannot protect and kill in the same Night. You cannot protect yourself.

Unfortunately, due to your ill-timed arrival in Nubigena, you have not been able to contact your fellow Mafiosi -

Incognito

and

thephantom

.

You will not be able to talk with them privately or make any kills until after Day 1.

You win when Mafia make the majority of the living, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and describing your abilities, if any; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

Once a lynch occurs, the game enters "twiglight". During this time, the lynched player may not post in the thread. Other players are free to continue talking but votes can not be cast.

After Day 1, gorckat received the following PM:

You stare at Niv's corpse, thinking that even you couldn't save him now. Soon, you notice Incognito leaving. After a short while Ripley follows, keeping a safe distance. You follow Ripley, being careful that you are not followed yourself. After a few minutes you see him walk into a small inconspicuous house. Slowly, you approach.

Just as you get to the door you feel something swing down onto your head, the force making you fall to the floor. Turning around, you see Incognito holding a baton, ready to strike again.

"No! Wait!" you cry out, "I'm with you! I'm Aleard's nephew! The new guy!"

Ripley appeared besides Incognito, aiming his pistol square between your eyes.

"What are you talking about?" he demands.
"I was meant to meet you last night. But then there was the storm..." you trail off, suddenly remembering the loss of your uncle.

Ripley and Incognito look at each other for a moment. They help you up.

"Aleard was special to us too, kid," Incognito says, Ripley nodding silently in agreement.
"So, what's so special about you anyway?" asks Ripley, "Your uncle seemed real excited about you coming here."
"Well, I'm a trained Doctor. Uncle Aleard said my skills might come in useful here," you reply.
"A Doctor? Nice. We're your standard goons," Incognito responds, looking impressed.
"Ok, let's get inside, we've got lots to discuss," Ripley finally says.

You make your way inside as the sun begins to set.

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You may now talk at Night with Incognito and Ripley, Mafia Goons, here: Mini 568 - Nubigena Mafia Night talking forum [link removed], and choose a player to kill. One of you may PM me the name of the target and so will attempt to make the kill.

You cannot protect and kill in the same Night.

After Day 1, Ripley and Incognito received the following PM:

Happy with the result of the day, you quickly leave, knowing that Ripley will be following a safe distance behind you. You make it back to your hide out. After a short while Ripley enters.

"Someone followed me," he says.
"What? Who?!" you ask.
"I'm not sure, but let's find out."
"Ok, I'll go around the back and get 'em from behind."

You quickly grab a baton laying on a table and sneak out the back. Quietly you make your way to the front of the house where you see someone carefully pacing to the door. Without a noise, you sneak behind him and swing the baton at him with all your might making him fall to the floor. He turns on the floor to face you. You recognise him as gorckat.

"No! Wait!" he cries out, "I'm with you! I'm Aleard's nephew! The new guy!"

Ripley comes out to join you, aiming his pistol square between gorckat's eyes.

"What are you talking about?" he demands.
"I was meant to meet you last night. But then there was the storm..." he trails off, sorrow filling his face.

You look at Ripley, both of you sympathising with his mourning for your late Godfather. You help him up.

"Aleard was special to us too, kid," you say, Ripley nodding silently in agreement.
"So, what's so special about you anyway?" he asks, "Your uncle seemed real excited about you coming here."
"Well, I'm a trained Doctor. Uncle Aleard said my skills might come in useful here," gorckat replies.
"A Doctor? Nice. We're your standard goons," you respond, looking impressed.
"Ok, let's get inside, we've got lots to discuss," Ripley finally say.

You make your way inside as the sun begins to set.

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gorckat, a Mafia Doctor, can now talk at night with you and Ripley.

[ooba]

Hmm guess my instinct was right ..

On hindisght we should have lynched gorckat - for not protecting Near and probably the slip on me ..

Mizzy was pretty right on except for the suspicion on Y.

But a fun game and well played guys !! And nicely written and modded by destructor - happy i replaced in ..

[Niv]

this game tought me one thing. i really suck at replacing, like more than i do at playing, and thats hard to pull off

Great game

[Mizzy]

See? No one ever listens to me.

[destructor]

Here are the night actions:

Night 0

Incognito (Mafia) killed avinashv
the_cat_herder (Mafia Doctor) protected Fat_Tony
avinashv (Vigilante) didn't kill
Near (Gunsmith) investigated XReyoX

Night 1

gorckat (Mafia) killed jerubbaal and didn't protect anyone
Near (Gunsmith) investigated Y

Night 2

Ripley (Mafia) killed Near
gorckat (Mafia Doctor) protected ooba

---

Firstly I want to thank everyone that replaced in. You guys made my job a lot easier and I

really do

appreciate it. For the most part, finding replacement was pretty speedy and I feel fortunate for that. Saying that, I don't want to sell those guys that stayed in from the beginning short. You guys rock.

I'm not sure why Near didn't investigate night 2 and was really confused when the_cat_herder decided to protect Fat_Tony. It seems pretty clear that she didn't understand her role. I did try to clarify it for her, but didn't feel like I should be telling her how to use her night action. Both of these were inconsequential in the end anyway.

I'm wondering whether I should have made it known to the town that one of the Mafia was separated from the scum-group in Day 1. All the setup speculation was pretty close, but there was no way for the town to know that I'd given the scum a disadvantage during Night 0 and Day 1, although the Traitor speculation got close. Part of me did this for that exact reason - to work against a predictable meta, but another wonders if it was a little unfair in retrospect.

What do you guys think about the balance? Did the lack of a town Doc favour scum disproportionately? How much of this game's outcome can be attributed to the nature of the setup?

About the flavour, it was fun to write. I thought Ripley did a good job of introducing the idea of a Godfather. My intention in listing "Aleard" as dead Godfather was to imply that the setup

didn't

in fact have one. I also included a subtle (probably too subtle) hint to gorckat's late arrival when I said this:

...
"Agreed," Aleard added quickly, glancing at the pub's entrance as someone walked by.
"Expecting someone?" asked Rayer, taking a sip from his pint glass.
"Oh, no no," he replied after a slight pause, "Just thought I saw someone I knew is all."

There were a few times in the game where townies were right on the money about what was going on, but things started sliding. Lowell actually pegged scum a few times when he was alive, and I thought it was hilarious how he never really followed it up. jerubbaal was SO close to figuring it out in Day 3 as well, but it was the Doc claim that really messed things up for him. ooba's effort on replacing in was pretty stellar too. I was impressed with how he went and read my MD posts, lol.

I may have more to say in detail later.

Well played town. I think you did well in a setup that may have been slighty balanced against you. I think your loss doesn't come down to poor play on your part, but good play on scums part.

Well done scum, you guys played your cards really well, took advantage of your 'informed' status and go the result that usually follows.

Thanks again to everyone that played. I had fun modding this. =)

[ooba]

See? No one ever listens to me.

Well I didn't vote you and was willing to listen about gorckat not being confirmed.

What do you guys think about the balance? Did the lack of a town Doc favour scum disproportionately? How much of this game's outcome can be attributed to the nature of the setup?

Well 'balance' is a tricky thing - this game has thought me that meta assumptions of a town needing a particular role is wrong - but i do think it was a close game - and that implies that it was evenly balanced.
I was suspicious of gorckat but then thought - you really would have added a doc due to the night start
We losing the Vig was unfortunate but i do not think it would have a big difference ..

But was gorckat being separated from the other two for one day that big a handicap to the scum? It does make sense flavor wise for them to get together atfer Night 1 but a traitor mafia doc would have been better (But that would have been inline with the meta and guessable)

[destructor]

During Night 0 and Day 1, scum could have unwittingly killed their buddy, who, to compound it, was also their only power role. I thought that was a fairly big dilemma for the scum group and I assume it was weighing on their minds throughout the start of the game.

A traitor may have been good. To be honest, the role never occurred to me while I was putting this together.

[ooba]

During Night 0 and Day 1, scum could have unwittingly killed their buddy, who, to compound it, was also their only power role. I thought that was a fairly big dilemma for the scum group and I assume it was weighing on their minds throughout the start of the game.

A traitor may have been good. To be honest, the role never occurred to me while I was putting this together.

Did they actually contemplate not killing anyone Night 0? the game would have been pretty hard for them if they had killed gorckat(or the cat herder at that time)

[Mizzy]

I enjoyed the game but the set-up speculation at the end that pretty much made all my hard work at good town play worthless really upset me, a lot. That's not a fault of the mod, however. I thought the flavor and such was very well done ^^

[gorckat]

Holy crap that was a roller coaster

I really expected to get run up for hammering Lowell. I hoped my doc claim would ferret out the real doc, or maybe even a tracker who could confirm I did what I said on Night 0 or 2. I believed that the lack of a counter meant the real doc was staying low believing I was not going to be believed and was really worried that my lynch would lead everyone else to Ripley and Incognito.

Good game, guys! Sorry I lied so hard right in ya'lls face Or not

[Y]

I actually thought gorckat was scum, but dismissed it. I didn't think we'll have no doc, and he wasn't counter-claimed.

[destructor]

I thought the flavor and such was very well done ^^

Cheers! I wasn't sure how it'd go down but had fun along the way. Did anyone get the reference to Niv "misplacing" his post in his lynch scene? hehehe

More thoughts on the fly:
I felt like Incog posting his case against Ripley was the point when the day began shifting in scum's favour. Up to that point, it seemed to me that the town was going to get a lynch on Ripley or Incog but there was definitely a momentum shift there.

gorckat, yep, you pretty much got saved by the doc-meta . But a doc claim at that point was pretty much exactly the right play, regardless of what was to follow. Like you said, you'd either out the Doc or get an almost guaranteed free pass to endgame. Surviving the nights would have been a tough one to explain, though.

[Incognito]

First of all, good game everyone!

destructor, that was an awesome job at modding. I really, really, really loved the flavor text and the unconventional set-up along with your ability to find replacements on the fly. I was shocked at how many people replaced on Day 1 alone and then of course Imat eventually replaced as well. Despite all that, I felt like this game still ran smoothly and never really lulled at any point. You're pretty much the reason I signed up for this game in the first place because I knew it would be a treat.

First of all, I definitely like being town much better than being scum lol. There were so many moments in this game where I felt like something was gonna go horribly wrong. To answer this question:

Did they actually contemplate not killing anyone Night 0? the game would have been pretty hard for them if they had killed gorckat(or the cat herder at that time)

Kinda sorta. I was really, really nervous about submitting the N0 kill because of that risk. There was essentially a 1/10 chance of me hitting my own scum-buddy so before I submitted the kill, I kept previewing the choice over and over again before finally clicking submit. thephantom and I were initially considering NK-ing Lowell since he was the most experienced but changed our minds last minute and went with a random in avinashv. I think we definitely lucked out with that since that got rid of 1 of the 2 power roles the town had. It also rendered our sole power role (the Mafia Doctor) useless since the only Night threat to us was that vig. I think this game was fairly balanced, and I actually kinda felt like this game was balanced in favor of the

town

and not the scum. We as scum had two blind opportunities to kill our own team member in the Night 0 kill and the Day 1 lynch.

The Night 1 kill was tricky for us. I really, really, really wanted to kill Near for obvious reasons, and I thought there would be no way destructor would include a Doctor and a Cop in one game. It just didn't seem destructor-like to me. I suspected the town may have had a roleblocker but not a doctor. Nevertheless, that Doctor risk really weighed on our minds since if we attempted to NK him and failed, he would be cleared, XReyoX/ooba would likely be cleared, and his Night 1 investigation would be cleared (Y) unless we kept on trying to sell that investigation immune scum role idea. So instead, we decided that either Mizzy or jerubbaal had to go since they seemed somewhat unlynchable at that point.

Night 2 was tricky also. We thought of so many scenarios that could happen the next day if we failed to kill Near again but this time we just went with it. Luckily it went through, and we were left in the LyLo situation. During Day 3, I actually would have never expected that Mizzy would end up being the lynch; she seemed obvtown to me, and I thought the townies might have thought the same (apparently not). I thought jerubbaal/Imat was a more likely lynch candidate and after Y voted for Ripley, I seriously began considering bussing Ripley since it didn't seem like Y would remove his vote. Eventually he did, thankfully, and the bus didn't seem as necessary. It would have been really risky to bus him at that point though since explaining away gorckat's lack of being killed would have gotten trickier and trickier. Generally, I was shocked that the town bought the Doctor claim so readily. I know it fit with the meta and all, but after that quick-Lowell hammer I thought for sure that gorckat was toast. I wanted to kick the computer for gorckat hammering the way he did lol.

I'm not sure why Near didn't investigate night 2 and was really confused when the_cat_herder decided to protect Fat_Tony. It seems pretty clear that she didn't understand her role. I did try to clarify it for her, but didn't feel like I should be telling her how to use her night action. Both of these were inconsequential in the end anyway.

Near didn't investigate Night 2? Wow... did he like never send you a PM or did he just say "no investigation"? And yeah, the_cat_herder was funny for submitting that Fat_Tony protection. lol.

Anywayz, good game all, and I'm glad to have played with you all!

[Ripley]

Thanks to everyone for the game and especial thanks to destructor for providing such an interesting and flavorful setup. The replacement situation must have been a real problem and I'm grateful for his outstanding recruitment skills. There's a danger of getting into a kind of loop where the day is extended to allow replacements to catch up and things start to drag for the original players who start to drop, causing the need for more replacements... Incog was the only original left by today. I think the discontinuity of replacements and long periods without much action really work in the scum's favor. Near and Lowell both seemed in differing degrees to lose interest during Day 2 which obviously helped a lot.

As Incog has said, the setup wasn't at all obvious to us either before the roleclaims. I was almost certain one of the people claiming after me would be a roleblocker. (Why did we have to specify which of us did the killing?)

A couple of other things that were lucky for us. I think we ended up with a good balance on the scum team. It was crucial that we had gorckat who was so bold and confident with his moves. And for me at least it was really useful that the third player was someone pretty much on my own wavelength. I usually dislike playing as scum and regard it as time I have to serve in order to be eligible to play as town in other games, but this was by and large a pleasant exception.

And I was grateful that ooba didn't set to work a week earlier than he did. I didn't like the way that was going at all.

[Incognito]

Yeah, Ripley, I'm really, really glad you replaced in on my side. I felt like with your experience playing with me as town, you might have figured me out really easily. I agree with you about the balance on the scum team; you and me definitely thought things through while gorckat had that cowboy-ish type of attitude. This was definitely a lot of fun. It was a real pleasure playing with you and gorckat.

[jerubbaal]

GG all, and well played scum.

I do have a little bit of beef with the setup though. The only relevant power role the town had was a slightly nerfed cop with a miller vig. Honestly, the vig might even be slightly worse than a vanilla townie in this setup, because scum can protect themselves and he happens to be a miller. Vig shouldn't vig night 0, because he has no information, and it's usually iffy night 1. By the time his ability becomes relevant, the scum have a doctor online to nerf him also. Also, cop is a significantly less powerful role when it is not combined with any sort of protective role.

I like the whole traitor thing with the scum, it's something I've heard about but not actually played with, but I don't think it's a significant enough disadvantage to balance everything the town had going against them. So yeah, maybe this is just me being whiny, but this setup seems to strongly favor the scum. It basically begs the question if adding a cop justifies adding another scum, and I think the answer is no, especially when there is a the miller factor as well.


On happier notes, I'm actually pleased with my instincts in this game, or at least near the end of it. I was definitely getting scummy vibes from gorckat during days 2 and 3, but I discarded them when he claimed doc and went uncountered. And yeah, Mizzy was completely obvtown, but my counting gorckat as confirmed made me think that she had to be scum. I'm actually semi-pleased I wasn't completely wrong on her.


So yeah, I think scum definitely had a sizable advantage, but you all executed quite well and never made any serious errors to endanger that advantage. Well played.

[gorckat]

I wanted to kick the computer for gorckat hammering the way he did lol.

Hah! You kept that quiet last night, didn't you? iirc, I felt it was the right move because of my thoughts that Near was gonna look at me and that Lowell was starting to look at me harder and back up his 'good enough' votes.

And I was grateful that ooba didn't set to work a week earlier than he did. I didn't like the way that was going at all.

QF'inT! I still don't think there's any incongruity between thinking ooba was town Night 2, but thinking he could be a GF given one of the obv scum wasn't counting him as cleared, but I could see where others might go for it.

One thing I was real careful of Day 3 was, once I began to feel assured there was never gonna be a counter, was to not overextend my position. Fo example, I almost dug into ooba a bit for calling Ripley 'too townie' with his concern that Ripley was at the back of everyone's list, but I'd already been sniffed at a little by him and I didn't want to provoke him further.

[destructor]

Near didn't investigate Night 2? Wow... did he like never send you a PM or did he just say "no investigation"?

He never sent a PM. I think he didn't log in again until the night was over. It was pretty terrible play. If he'd survived the night I can only imagine the disorder he'd set the town in.

Why did we have to specify which of us did the killing?

I included that to keep you guessing.
I think asking scum to choose who submits kills is generally good for a setup. If I hadn't have asked for that, you all would have been able to guess that there weren't any roleblocker- or tracker-type roles.

I do have a little bit of beef with the setup though. The only relevant power role the town had was a slightly nerfed cop with a miller vig. Honestly, the vig might even be slightly worse than a vanilla townie in this setup, because scum can protect themselves and he happens to be a miller. Vig shouldn't vig night 0, because he has no information, and it's usually iffy night 1. By the time his ability becomes relevant, the scum have a doctor online to nerf him also. Also, cop is a significantly less powerful role when it is not combined with any sort of protective role.

I can appreciate this. I think things may have been a little swingy, but then I really didn't want to make things too obvious. I think you'd have to keep in mind, though, that the investigative role

wasn't

a Cop, but a Gunsmith, whose results aren't guilty/innocent, but has a gun/doesn't have a gun. The difference between finding a gun on a player and getting a guilty on them needs to be considered.

If scum had killed the doc or he was lynched in Day 1, they would have been at a pretty huge disadvantage. A Scum Doc generally implies another killing role, possibly town or even another scum faction. This would have made the Vig's eventual claim more believable, even if the Gunsmith got a guilty on him. I think the three roles sort of complimented each other in ways.

Btw, I noticed a few of you having nominated my flavour for a scummie. Much appreciated. =)

[Ripley]

My one real reservation about this setup is the part I wasn't actively involved in, ie the Night 0 scum killing choice. To me, the difference in outcome, even between killing a plain townie and killing the mafia doctor was too large a factor to be determined by blind luck alone. And obviously the difference is magnified when the scum actually hit a town power role as actually happened here. They could, it's true, avoid this lottery by foregoing the kill altogether, but that seems a very high price.

[ooba]

And I was grateful that ooba didn't set to work a week earlier than he did. I didn't like the way that was going at all.

QF'inT! I still don't think there's any incongruity between thinking ooba was town Night 2, but thinking he could be a GF given one of the obv scum wasn't counting him as cleared, but I could see where others might go for it.

I miscalculated and thought you wouldn't quick lynch so soon and wait for something closer to deadline.. Well this game was a real good learning experience for me

My one real reservation about this setup is the part I wasn't actively involved in, ie the Night 0 scum killing choice. To me, the difference in outcome, even between killing a plain townie and killing the mafia doctor was too large a factor to be determined by blind luck alone. And obviously the difference is magnified when the scum actually hit a town power role as actually happened here. They could, it's true, avoid this lottery by foregoing the kill altogether, but that seems a very high price.

I agree with this . A Day start would have been better i feel .. Scum do not know their partner for the Day 1 lynch alone (but i'm sure gorckat could have passed some signals).. The vig would have got one kill in ..

[jerubbaal]

I do think the roles played well together, but the balance was definitely a problem. Giving the town only a naked almost-cop really doesn't cut it. Vig isn't substantially better than vanilla, and becomes significantly worse being a miller. Plus the fact that town would probably have no clue that there was a mafia doc anywhere out there, so they wouldn't understand the interaction in the rules unless they had luckily killed him yet.

Absolute bare balance is 2 scum/10 town. That's usually the way it goes for mountainous. You strengthened the town actually less than a full cop, by adding the miller, and added an entire other scum. It's really not strong enough. Plus you strengthened the scum by adding a mafia doc. The design is actually fairly elegant, it's just not balanced at all.

And I think it was the absolute right move for scum to kill. The slim odds of hitting your other scum are very worth the overwhelming odds of hitting a townie, or even a power role (as was the case).

[destructor]

Yeah, I accept that it was leaning on the swingy side and apologise for that. An indication to the town that there was a 'missing' scum role probably would have had a balancing effect too. And maybe I should have been more overt about noting that the game had no godfather. That was meant to be a hint too. The absence of a Godfather and presence of a Vig was meant to imply that scum had some method of protection. =/

I do think, though, that the Vig/miller thing wasn't so bad. I

could

have included a "Miller Vig", but I didn't, and I think that was significant. Again, a Gunsmith isn't a Cop and so shouldn't be treated as one. You could say that the Gunsmith's results were more useful in finding the innocent than the guilty.

[jerubbaal]

I really fail to see the significant difference between a gunsmith and a cop. They function identically. The only difference here was that the vig worked as a miller. Otherwise, it's absolutely identical to cop.

Added question here, if the mafia doc was investigated before he actually joined the mafia, would he have come up guilty?

I actually really commend you on the indication about there being no GF. It was a reasonably subtle way of doing it that wasn't airtight, but still a strong indication. I disagree, however, that the presence of a vig did anything to imply that scum had protection. Vigs appear in games all the time when scum don't have protection. Really, all the protection did was hurt a town which was already pretty weak.

[gorckat]

Would a tracker or wathcer have balanced things out?

The idea of the doc being innocent Night 0 is kinda elegant.