Mini 782 - And Then There Were None (Game Over)

[populartajo]

a)There was no personal risk in her suggestion as suggesting nameclaim is not currently a reprehensible item in the collective meta.

b)The fallout of nameclaiming in this game is highly dangerous for the entire game as it means probably outing all the poweroles D1.

c) And you are missing the anvil sized hints I have been dropping. So tell me, are you deliberately ignoring my softclaim?

Okay. How a) and b) dont contradict each other. If the fallout of nameclaiming in this game is highly dangerous for the entire game (b) then how is not a personal risk to suggest it (a)? Also, if you reread what happened in page 1, the suggestion was indeed a risk as Izzy was voted by the following players: spring, Serplat, Phoebus. Obv all three of you cant be scum but I bet that there has to be at least a scum here if Izzy is town as I suspect.

About c)You are softclaiming. Meh. If you are town, then start thinking ahead the box. If you keep thinking like scum then Ill go back to you. After all that has been said, you still think Izzy is scum?

Unvote

Vote: Phoebus.

Vote Count

DizzyIzzy 2 - Springlullaby, Phoebus
Phoebus 2 - Malthusis, Creativemind
Springlullaby 2 - Populartajo, insanepenguin
Serplat 1 - DizzyIzyy
Looker 1 - Budja
Malthusis 1 - Kabenon
Populartajo 1 - Alabaska j
Creativemind 1 - Looker

[insanepenguin02]

@ Spring - Got ya. I see more so that there could be a much larger downfall of a nameclaim that out weighs the possible benefits. There is too much wiggle room possible in the interpretations of the roles/characters and I would rather not try to outguess the MOD on a book that I have never read before. lol.

To answer your question in Post 83, I was talking about you hiding in the background because it seemed as if you took a couple days off. Quickly after I post that though, you come back with many posts over a few day period. And what scumslip? I have seen PLENTY of games on this site and others where a scummy player comes out and begins a "case" on somebody or acts completely retarded, drawing attention to themself only to quickly become very quiet - as if their scum buddies are talking to them telling them to hush up. This is what I meant by my comments to you.

And I see your frustration now as Looker does - probably just your persona.

UNVOTE

and thank you for the continued explanation.

FYI - I see the Dizzy situation IS a situation but still do not believe it would be worthy of a vote. At least not yet. I feel it was something that needed to be discussed, we discussed it, and now I think it could be ended fairly soon.

With that in mind - I would vote NO for a name claim after reading through the cons.

I would recommend that we get a couple people prodded here as this seems to be a discussion of a small handful of players.


Lastly, who do I think is scummy right now? I have to re-read.

[populartajo]

Insane, why did you assume that scum can daytalk?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Tajo: Rules.

"8. People in groups (i.e. mafia, werewolves, masons etc.) are allowed to communicate by PM/QuickTopic at all times (i.e. not just during the night phase). Otherwise, do not talk to anyone about this game outside the thread."

[Looker]

PopularTajo, you're smart.
+

DizzyIzzy, you're clever.

And together you form, the Smart/Clever Scum Team!

FoS the both of you

!

[Serplat]

Tajo: Rules.

"8. People in groups (i.e. mafia, werewolves, masons etc.) are allowed to communicate by PM/QuickTopic at all times (i.e. not just during the night phase). Otherwise, do not talk to anyone about this game outside the thread."

I'm trying to figure out whether this means that there is more than one killer, or some pro-town group (Mr. and Mrs. Rogers?). However, if there are multiple killers, this is a matter we have to take seriously.

1) You seem almost frustrated with some people for not thinking the same way that you do - "are you thick?" and comments like this seem like you are trying to force an opinion on everyone rather than calming discussing.

I agree. Forcing your opinion on other people doesn't seem very helpful, if anything it just adds stress. You seem very harsh and aggressive, which is good and bad. Aggressive, especially when you don't seem like you're open to discussion, can be taken the wrong way very easily.

My opinion on this subject is 100% informed and protown and I'm gonna force it down everyone's throats because there is nothing to 'discuss calmly'. I will repeat it again and make things very clear: nameclaiming is antitown. If you are not prepared to challenge me on that with rolebased info, then you start explaining why you cannot take a clue now.

I'm no longer disagreeing with you on it, but it seems like you are overreacting to a simple suggestion.

Yay, I'm town!

I read a couple of games where people would make comments like this. A couple of those people were scum. I don't quite get why it is so great that one person considers you town, what if that person is scum?

Yeah, I'm starting to doubt that Spring is scum. I'm starting to believe that's just his online persona...

Couldn't agree more.

I would also like to know whom Serplat finds scummy at the moment (if you find anyone scummy at all).

I haven't really managed to pin anybody as scum yet. However, Spring looks pretty pro-town. Dizzy leans pro-town to me, although she could possibly be smart scum. For the others, I'll have to reread, though. I'll try to reread and make a vote at some point tomorrow.

-------------

Currently lurking:

Kabenon (last post Tues)
Malthusis (last and only post

last

Friday)

Mod: Please prod Kabenon and Malthusis

[Phoebus]

I've been V/LA for last couple of days.

Will continue till Wed - 20th

Will read and post soon.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Tajo: Rules.

"8. People in groups (i.e. mafia, werewolves, masons etc.) are allowed to communicate by PM/QuickTopic at all times (i.e. not just during the night phase). Otherwise, do not talk to anyone about this game outside the thread."

I'm trying to figure out whether this means that there is more than one killer, or some pro-town group (Mr. and Mrs. Rogers?). However, if there are multiple killers, this is a matter we have to take seriously.

Both are reasonable assumptions, I suppose, since it would be unusual to just have the one scum in a 12 person game in my experience and Mr. and Mrs. Rogers would be good candidates for a Mason pairing. I believe you've missed another remote posibility that fits with the flavor - that we have a Wargrave/Armstrong neighbour pairing, since Armstrong, as has been mentioned in the thread before, unwittingly aided Wargrave in committing the murders. I only consider it a remote possibility because if it were the case and Wargrave is solo scum, we could well be in a situation where the player representing Armstrong could claim their role and their partner, we lynch the partner today and we win far too easily. So... probably unlikely, unless we're in a situation where we don't have Wargrave scum.

Having said that, it could well be that we have neither Masons or multiple scum. A quick check of other games run byThAdmiral shows this rule appears in at least one other game he's run (Open 143, which is currently running), and given the phrasing, it appears to be a general rule he applies. I note that he made a greater effort to bring this rule to the attention of those in the game in that case, perhaps indicating that it is less relevent in this game.

[insanepenguin02]

Tajo: Rules.

"8. People in groups (i.e. mafia, werewolves, masons etc.) are allowed to communicate by PM/QuickTopic at all times (i.e. not just during the night phase). Otherwise, do not talk to anyone about this game outside the thread."

Thank you for bringing this up, tajo. And I believe this may be the biggest scum slip in the game yet. You question me as to how I "know the scum can day talk." I read the rules as I should and figured that out. The way you pointed me out (and in the same way, seem 100% sure that scum DOES day talk) makes me REALLY think that you may have made the slip, my friend.

Vote tajo

[insanepenguin02]

Insane, why did you assume that scum can daytalk?

And sorry, here is the question that I am addressing with the above post. Populartajo brings up the daytalk of scum and then dizzy states the rules - just to clarify.

[Phoebus]

I reread and don't have much to add right now.

I'm wondering about spring's insistence.

I also watch the "group talk" discussion interesting.

Though I must confess that I thought tajo brought in a valid point until someone pointed to the rules.

Day time talk is generally rare - so I think tajo assumed it was the same here. I know I did...

[Budja]

@penguin, not reading the rules and knowing if the scum daytalk is a scumslip how? I assume the same as Phoebus and it is highly likely that tajo did too.

@Looker, is that post meant to actually mean anything, i.e. are those suspicions serious?

@Izzy, I was allowed to daytalk in scum in another one (now finished) of ThAdmiral's games. I don't think it is tied to the theme of this game.

A very quick turn-around from creative, which I find odd.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Yeah, not knowing scum can daytalk isn't a slip. It'd be the natural assumption for people who haven't properly read the rules and ar enot scum, but it's also possible for scum to react that way to create the impression they were unaware of the rule and thus can't be scum since, presumably, scum or masons would be told this in their role PM if there's more than one of them.

Given Budja's support for the notion that day talk is a general ThAdmiral rule, I think we can rule out that the phrasing and inclusion of that rule gives away that there are multiple scum. It's still likely, though, since I believe 1 scum v. 11 town, especially a town that most likely has a number of power roles, would be an unbalanced game. Also... trhe fact that there are 10 players instead of 10 still makes me edgy, since I'm not sure where the 2 extra characters would come from. I suppose the likely explanation would be that we've got the ten people stranded on the island plus two of Inspector Maine, Sir Thomas Legge and Fred Narracot, the only characters who appear in the book who weren't on the island and aren't dead yet, although I don't quite see how they'd fit into the flavor of the game, and where extra scum would come from...

[Serplat]

If someone is Armstrong, and is able to communicate at night to one other player (with or without being told what role that person has, it could be a lie or you could be 'deceived'), be wary. It could very well be our killer.

However, we can't be sure, so I'm not sure I'd advise a claim at this point, the chances something like this is in effect is slim. My guess would be that if it were in effect, you would be told that Wargrave is innocent, or that you are talking to someone other than Wargrave. Either of these could very easily be a lie.

[Looker]

Serplat's Post 105 - I don't think you understand; NO one ever thinks I'm town; I'm always the village idiot/scum/mini-zwet/whatever. The fact that someone actually thinks I'm town and the fact that it's Tajo, makes me feel pretty good...

Phoebus's Post 106 - Phoebus's explanation of his lurking. Still no word from Malthusis or Kabenon.

Dizzy's Post 107 - Okay, when it comes to names, couldn't

anyone

of us be a killer since, in the book, each one of the guests were murderers or had murdered someone? Isn't that how the book goes? Vera Claythorne killed a little boy for his money (and Phillip Lombard, didn't she?); Armstrong killed one of his patients; Blore, if he was a cop, would probably be ineffective due to his role in the book; Emily Brent would probably be a vigilante or something, I don't know, but I'm guessing it'd be town; Mr. & Mrs. Rogers are probably town because all they did was let their boss die; MacArthur I think could be town or, perhaps if the mod was creative, some type of intuitive role due to him foreseeing his death; Anthony Marston could be scum because he's ruthless, reckless, and killed two small children with no remorse; and Isaac Morris is probably scum because he's a criminal, killer, and a drug-dealer.

IP's Post 108 - InsanePenguin, I don't understand the scumslip. What happened?

Budja's Post 111 - They were serious, yet gut-based and lacking actual evidence. There's always the possibility.

Serplat's Post 113 - I don't know about the name-claim. I'm starting to lean back into it, or at least back into the discussion of it, because I've found a few more possible roles of the killer.

What would any of you think of the killers being: Isaac Morris, Anthony Marston, Vera Claythorne, and Judge Wargrave?

[Budja]

Looker, the "reasons" you gave were very silly(smart, clever). Intelligence is not a scum-tell.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Looker, why are you speculating about Isaac Morris? He's dead already and has been confirmed as town.

[Looker]

@ Budja: Sorry, I tried

@ Dizzy: Gah! Well that shoots that all to hell. It doesn't say that he was town, though, so, "flavor-wise" he could have been scum. What about the others, though? what do you think of them? you as well, budja

[Serplat]

Isacc Morris - Guest Aligned Liason - Poisoned - night 0

This death matches the death of Isaac Morris in the book quite closely.

Also, @Looker, what made you choose those other characters, as opposed to any of the others?

Also, post 113 was not meant to propose a full name-claim. When I said that I was not sure if I could support a claim, I meant that I was not sure I could support the person with the role of Armstrong saying "Yeah, I'm a mason along with one other character, I was told he was town though", if that's the case. However, if that really is the case, I advise Armstrong to be very wary, he's likely partnered with Wargrave, and might not have been told the truth about the alignment.

I'm not so sure that's what's happening though, because that would be a bit suspicious. Although it does follow the book quite closely.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry, I thought that everyone would read the rules and therefore somebody bringing it up to try and point out suspicion on somebody else seemed fairly scummy imo. I guess no one else saw that?

[Looker]

Serplat's Post 118 - The characters I chose were the only ones in the character list when I went to SparkNotes and I don't quite get what you're saying as far as the Wargrave/Armstrong situation. I'm trying not to be dense but I really don't understand.

[Serplat]

Sorry, I thought that everyone would read the rules and therefore somebody bringing it up to try and point out suspicion on somebody else seemed fairly scummy imo. I guess no one else saw that?

I see your point. However, I think it's slim. I didn't really remember that rule, either.

However, if I were to turn it against someone else, I would recheck the rules.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@ Budja: Sorry, I tried

@ Dizzy: Gah! Well that shoots that all to hell. It doesn't say that he was town, though, so, "flavor-wise" he could have been scum. What about the others, though? what do you think of them? you as well, budja

It said he was Guest aligned.

[Looker]

...

[populartajo]

I reread and don't have much to add right now.

I'm wondering about spring's insistence.

I also watch the "group talk" discussion interesting.

Though I must confess that I thought tajo brought in a valid point until someone pointed to the rules.

Day time talk is generally rare - so I think tajo assumed it was the same here. I know I did...

Can we lynch this guy, please?

Also, insane, I dont think you are being very clever attacking me for those reasons, as many have noticed. Daytalk is a very weird trend in all the minis Ive played here. And who reads the rules these days?

But dont worry, I think you are prob town for bringing that point.

Now, more Phoebus lynch.