Open 154: Lovers' Mafia (Game Over) before 813

[Far_Cry]

Most suspicious? The guy I'm voting for...

You know, Far, it might be a good idea to unvote saber first .

Speaking of saber, I don't think I ever suspected him. If I did suspect him of anything, then it must not have been that big of a deal.

And falk, I didn't say everyone is scum. Don't expect me to turn a blind eye to slip-ups of potential scum.

Oh ya, sry.

unvote

vote Empking

yeah I see Kise...I misunderstood your post 91.

so, you think that putting Empiking at L-1 can be useful??

Perhaps. I want him to talk, and stop playing games.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Votecount #004

3 - Empking (Kise, falkomango, Far_Cry)
1 - Far_Cry (saberwolf)
1 - Kise (Empking)
1 - falkomagno (Khamisa)

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

[Far_Cry]

To show how idiotic Empking has been, I will quote all of his posts.

Vote; Kise

Obv member of the "K" lovers.

There goes no.1, a random vote.

FoS: FC

FC and Kise are the scum.

Why?? Oh ya, and that no.2.

Sorry to hear. Hope all gets well in time.

FoS

anyone not using colon when they voted, thus being possible idiot-lovers.

But what about empking's vote for Kise (I think)? He used a semi-colon...this scumhunting thing is harder than I thought.

Why aren't you voting Kise?

Again pushing for a vote he hasn't backed up.

Do you have a post restriction?

Vote: Empking

This is a very scummy post.

Why?

1. Its written by scum.
2. Its implying something Kise knows to be false.
3. Its trying to suggest that there's more support for the bandwagon that there is.
4. Its OMGUS

FC: Why aren't you scum?
Falk; Why aren't you voting Kise?

Another attempt. BACK YOURSELF UP AND STOP REPEATING THE SAME THING!!!!

Falk: Why are you saying the only player to scum hunt (despiute forgetting he was in this game.) is the only player ewho hasn't contributed.

Perhaps the only post he didn't attack me or Kise. However, he seems he's just trying to protect his ass.

How the hell is this town so incompetent they haven't lynched one of the obv buddies of Kise and FC. Really?

There he goes again.

Emp, are you serious??

What is the case against they??

You think that saying:

Cuki and Pupy are scum. Lynch them now¡¡¡

it's enough to lynch somebody??

I like people to scum hunt by themselves.

Kise and Fc have not posted more than one post where they haven't been buddying up together.

Yet another unbackedup (don't care if its not a word) attack.

Emp, are you serious??

What is the case against they??

You think that saying:

Cuki and Pupy are scum. Lynch them now¡¡¡

it's enough to lynch somebody??

I like people to scum hunt by themselves.

Kise and Fc have not posted more than one post where they haven't been buddying up together.

Wrong. Read posts before u say things. I do have a lot of suspicion on Kise. I even said so on a previous point. U ar becoming more and more suspicious by the minute.

Because I'm suspicious of you?

This is how your posts are going.

FC: Something stupid
Kise: QFT
FC: I agree with Kise

That's all you two have been posting.

And his last attack, and he still hasn't backed up his vote. WHY NOT???

Empking also didn't answer the questions I asked earlier on this day, despite the fact that I asked him to numerous times to answer them.

Possibilites:
1. Empking is scum.
2. Empking is a total idiot.

Either way, its not good for him.

[Empking]

Vote: FC

kise; When did I say you wrere looking out for FC?

FC: Do you think I haven't shut up this game?

[Khamisa]

Not to offend Empking, but I choose number 2. Empking's play in this game is similar to his play in most other games, therefore, null tell.

If you read any other games, you would realize this.

[falkomagno]

So, can be better to lynch Saberwolf??

[saberwolf]

here's the read i got so far...

Sorry to hear. Hope all gets well in time.

FoS

anyone not using colon when they voted, thus being possible idiot-lovers.

But what about empking's vote for Kise (I think)? He used a semi-colon...this scumhunting thing is harder than I thought.

possible defending of emp

ok, now pay attention to the following quote:

falkomagno: lurking is not a scumtell. It's too judgmental. Who's to say they aren't having an unexpected emergency? too lazy to post?

Kise: This isn't the Empking I know, and I'm not sure If I believe his "just trying something new" claim. However, I think he's smart enough to not try this as scum, where one lynch of scum is game over.

now look at THIS one:

Not to offend Empking, but I choose number 2. Empking's play in this game is similar to his play in most other games, therefore, null tell.

If you read any other games, you would realize this.

so basically, quote 1 was kham saying that empking isn't playing like usual, then changes her mind in quote 2 and says that empking is playing like usual. suspicious.

My quotes of intrest from falko:

wow...you mean...LYLO in Day one??'how do you know that??...it's possible that there is just one mafia around...I think...

so...the mafia can not kill right??

sounds like a confused mafia trying to figure out what he can and can't do.

possible team ups in conclusion:

FC and kise
Empking and khamisa
falko and ???

look at the vote for a minute:

Votecount #004

3 - Empking (Kise, falkomango, Far_Cry)
1 - Far_Cry (saberwolf)
1 - Kise (Empking)
1 - falkomagno (Khamisa)

would the idiot scum really be stupid enough [and i dont think there is a role they have to play, just labeled as idiot lovers] to keep their vote on their own partner this long when a hammer is so easily possible? Therefore I would eliminate the following possibilities:

Emp/Kise, Emp/FC, Emp/falk, although by reading the posts going on between these four i think you would of realised that anyways. :/

the only problem with this analysis, is it leaves only emp and khamisa as my primary targets (excluding myself) and I have them paired as possible scum, so there is no reason to vote one when the other is already suspected as thier partner, as already diuscussed when it was thought emp and i had a connection and i think FC wanted to vote for both of us.

my theories:

1. empking and khamisa are scum

this would seem likely due to posts and the vote structure. It makes sense to me: if emp as scum already as 3 townie votes on him and its down to himself, myself and partner scum, he's not going to vote himself and throw the game, and cause I know I'm townie, that'd leave khamisa, who can't switch her vote to emp or they'd lose the game.
However, if empking turns out to be town or we decide to lynch someone else day 1, then i move to:

2. either one or both of Kise/FC/falk are scum

it's once again all about the votes. (If you look at both theories i realise that yes, i just labelled everyone as scum, lol, but hear me out.) If emp is indeed town, then one of the three votes as of right now HAS to be scum. That leads to two possibilities:

a) one scum voted for emp while the other didn't in an attempt not to get grouped together

b) the two scum voted together as they don't feel like they can accomplish anything alone. [just a thought that suddenly occured to me...i know i said i dont believe in roles, but if they DID exist, do you think that, because the idiot lovers can't stand to be apart, they need to vote for the same person as well?]

so that leads in a result of:

a) FC/Kham, Kise/Kham, Falk/Kham
b) FC/Kise, FC/Falk, Falk/Kise

once again though, the problem arises that it puts kham in the spotlight once again, and it isnt a good idea to vote for both of what you suspect is a lovers scum pair.

Therefore, I suggest the following:

I think it is safe to assume that empking is not partners with FC/Kise/Falk, simply due to vote structure and the posts/insults hurled back and forth.

so we should unvote empking and do either:

1. vote khamisa

if she is scum we win, if she isn't then we know empking is a townie, and we focus on someone else day 2

2. vote whoever seem the most suspicious/connected of the three of FC/Kise/Falk

if we fail to lynch a scum day 1, we can either assume the other two left are scum, or go for kham next.

because kham/falk and FC/Kise seem like likely pairs in choosing combinations, I suggest voting for kham and [either FC or kise], in no particular order. I say this because kham doesn't seem to support FC or Kise very much, so I'm not as likely to place them as partners.

There is still a couple of problems with my theory, and I realise that:

1. i could be scum and misleading you

title says it all

2. i could be entirely wrong in my analysis

title says it all

there is more to this, but I gotta go and I'll reread this later to see if I missed anything in this analysis, as I'm sure I did, but I ran out of time. Ponder this in the meantime.

[Far_Cry]

here's the read i got so far...

Sorry to hear. Hope all gets well in time.

FoS

anyone not using colon when they voted, thus being possible idiot-lovers.

But what about empking's vote for Kise (I think)? He used a semi-colon...this scumhunting thing is harder than I thought.

possible defending of emp

ok, now pay attention to the following quote:

falkomagno: lurking is not a scumtell. It's too judgmental. Who's to say they aren't having an unexpected emergency? too lazy to post?

Kise: This isn't the Empking I know, and I'm not sure If I believe his "just trying something new" claim. However, I think he's smart enough to not try this as scum, where one lynch of scum is game over.

now look at THIS one:

Not to offend Empking, but I choose number 2. Empking's play in this game is similar to his play in most other games, therefore, null tell.

If you read any other games, you would realize this.

so basically, quote 1 was kham saying that empking isn't playing like usual, then changes her mind in quote 2 and says that empking is playing like usual. suspicious.

My quotes of intrest from falko:

wow...you mean...LYLO in Day one??'how do you know that??...it's possible that there is just one mafia around...I think...

so...the mafia can not kill right??

sounds like a confused mafia trying to figure out what he can and can't do.

possible team ups in conclusion:

FC and kise
Empking and khamisa
falko and ???

look at the vote for a minute:

Votecount #004

3 - Empking (Kise, falkomango, Far_Cry)
1 - Far_Cry (saberwolf)
1 - Kise (Empking)
1 - falkomagno (Khamisa)

would the idiot scum really be stupid enough [and i dont think there is a role they have to play, just labeled as idiot lovers] to keep their vote on their own partner this long when a hammer is so easily possible? Therefore I would eliminate the following possibilities:

Emp/Kise, Emp/FC, Emp/falk, although by reading the posts going on between these four i think you would of realised that anyways. :/

the only problem with this analysis, is it leaves only emp and khamisa as my primary targets (excluding myself) and I have them paired as possible scum, so there is no reason to vote one when the other is already suspected as thier partner, as already diuscussed when it was thought emp and i had a connection and i think FC wanted to vote for both of us.

my theories:

1. empking and khamisa are scum

this would seem likely due to posts and the vote structure. It makes sense to me: if emp as scum already as 3 townie votes on him and its down to himself, myself and partner scum, he's not going to vote himself and throw the game, and cause I know I'm townie, that'd leave khamisa, who can't switch her vote to emp or they'd lose the game.
However, if empking turns out to be town or we decide to lynch someone else day 1, then i move to:

2. either one or both of Kise/FC/falk are scum

it's once again all about the votes. (If you look at both theories i realise that yes, i just labelled everyone as scum, lol, but hear me out.) If emp is indeed town, then one of the three votes as of right now HAS to be scum. That leads to two possibilities:

a) one scum voted for emp while the other didn't in an attempt not to get grouped together

b) the two scum voted together as they don't feel like they can accomplish anything alone. [just a thought that suddenly occured to me...i know i said i dont believe in roles, but if they DID exist, do you think that, because the idiot lovers can't stand to be apart, they need to vote for the same person as well?]

so that leads in a result of:

a) FC/Kham, Kise/Kham, Falk/Kham
b) FC/Kise, FC/Falk, Falk/Kise

once again though, the problem arises that it puts kham in the spotlight once again, and it isnt a good idea to vote for both of what you suspect is a lovers scum pair.

Therefore, I suggest the following:

I think it is safe to assume that empking is not partners with FC/Kise/Falk, simply due to vote structure and the posts/insults hurled back and forth.

so we should unvote empking and do either:

1. vote khamisa

if she is scum we win, if she isn't then we know empking is a townie, and we focus on someone else day 2

2. vote whoever seem the most suspicious/connected of the three of FC/Kise/Falk

if we fail to lynch a scum day 1, we can either assume the other two left are scum, or go for kham next.

because kham/falk and FC/Kise seem like likely pairs in choosing combinations, I suggest voting for kham and [either FC or kise], in no particular order. I say this because kham doesn't seem to support FC or Kise very much, so I'm not as likely to place them as partners.

There is still a couple of problems with my theory, and I realise that:

1. i could be scum and misleading you

title says it all

2. i could be entirely wrong in my analysis

title says it all

there is more to this, but I gotta go and I'll reread this later to see if I missed anything in this analysis, as I'm sure I did, but I ran out of time. Ponder this in the meantime.

Your analysis is convincing, and perhaps Khamisa is the better vote. However, what your saying is just about everyone is scum except you. Other than Khamisa, who is most suspicious?

[Kise]

Can anybody say WIFOM?

Saber, I say go with theory #1:

1. empking and khamisa are scum

I thought Far_Cry was hesitating to vote for Emp, but he's proven not to be partnered with Emp. Khamisa was someone I suspected early on as also being connected to Emp. So, a hammer on Empking will kill them both, if she is his partner. Now, enough detracting, saber. LYNCH THIS SCUMBAG.

Empking screwed himself. It's not like he's being tunneled... It's his fault for bringing this on himself. If I had a shadow of a doubt that Emp was townie, I'd unvote. Unfortunately (for him), he's not behaving any less scummy.

[Kise]

you think that putting Empiking at L-1 can be useful??

No. He's still acting the same.

Also, something crossed my mind....

1. empking and khamisa are scum

this would seem likely due to posts and the vote structure. It makes sense to me: if emp as scum already as 3 townie votes on him and its down to himself, myself and partner scum, he's not going to vote himself and throw the game, and cause I know I'm townie, that'd leave khamisa, who can't switch her vote to emp or they'd lose the game.

Pardon the peer pressure, but both Khamisa AND YOU are avoiding the Emp wagon.. so why did you only list her as Emp's scum partner and not yourself? No one else can vouch whether you're town or not, so your theory should have included the possibility that you are also a candidate to be Emp's partner.

You list the variation of FC, falk & myself as possible scum partners, then say khamisa and Emp could be linked, yet place no vote for Emp... They would both die once Emp is lynched, but you suddenly come out with the biggest post ITT and it just so happens to attempt to derail an Emp lynch. It was a nice post that is probably accurate on at least one of the theories, but it doesn't prove Emp to be pro-town at all.

If you have doubts that Emp could be scum but believe khamisa is scum, who do you think is more likely to be her partner (if not Emp)?

[Empking]

SW: Who are you planning on voting?

SW: What do you think of Kise's completely ignoring the contents of your post while trying to rebutt it?

[Far_Cry]

Let me tell u the truth. Empking is absolutely not helpful. He simply brought almost nothing to this game, meaning his death will be helpful to town in any case, rly.

[falkomagno]

Emp...don't you realized that Sw has voted for Khamisa already right??

[Far_Cry]

I've decided to analyse voting patterns of everyone:

Falko: Saberwolf (random vote), Khamisa, and Empking.

Empking: Kise, and me.

Khamisa: Falko (random vote.)

Kise: Empking

Saberwolf: Me, and then Khamisa

Me: Khamisa (random vote, which later became serious), Saberwolf, and Empking.

What conclusions can u draw?

To tell the truth, its hard to say somethin. Part of this reason is because Empking and Khamisa are not contributing enough, and somewhat strange voting habits of some people.

My biggest suspicion of a connection was between Empking and Khamisa. Saberwolf is a possible suspect. However, I have to draw attention to falko's somewhat shady play. And Kise has stayed on 1 vote for the whole game.

Obviously, not all of these people above can scum, so I would have to put it this way:

Town: Me, Kise, Falko, and Saberwolf
Scum: Khamisa and Empking

If Empking were to flip town, then:

Town: Me, Kise, Falko, and Empking (dead)
Scum: Khamisa and Saberwolf

The thing about my 2nd thought is that Saberwolf is not the only candidate, to be scum, but so is Falko, Kise, and even me. However, if we get Khamisa, the next person dies.

The only problem is that Khamisa may possibly flip town, and town loses.

So Khamisa and Empking, get down here and defend yourself.

[Khamisa]

Yes, saberwolf has, and I hope it was intended.

saberwolf: First, you are very wrong in your first quote, punctuation has nothing to do with scumhunting. I was joking.

Yes, I know that those posts are contradicting, but they are also different timeframes. Empking appeared to be agressively tunneling FC and Kise, but now he's resolved back into his normal gameplay.

Also: You quote posts from me, and from falko, but then when you do possible pairs, you through in FC and Kise. Why? For good Measure?

I also agree with FC's statement that it's all in your perspective, so therefore not completely reliable.

Also, agreeing with Kise's statement, you are also likely to be Empking's partner, which leads me to a new line of thought: You state that me and Empking are the likeliest scum, yet you want to derail the 3-vote Emp wagon and start a new one on me? If it's true, it's pointless, why not just lynch Emp since you have the opportunity? I think you want to save him, because is your partner.

[falkomagno]

of course...that FC and Kise can be a scum pair. i think that the better idea is to find scum pairs actually.

But , i'm still in Emp BW. He not even try to defend himself.

[Far_Cry]

of course...that FC and Kise can be a scum pair. i think that the better idea is to find scum pairs actually.

But , i'm still in Emp BW. He not even try to defend himself.

Exactly. Empking needs to seriously defend himself.

Mod: I'm going to a camp for a week, and I'm not sure if I will computer access. Replace me if needed.

[Khamisa]

of course...that FC and Kise can be a scum pair. i think that the better idea is to find scum pairs actually.

But , i'm still in Emp BW. He not even try to defend himself.

Exactly. Empking needs to seriously defend himself.

Mod: I'm going to a camp for a week, and I'm not sure if I will computer access. Replace me if needed.

Emp doesn't defend himself. If he tries, it's usually illegible.

[Far_Cry]

But he could still try something, right?

[saberwolf]

ok, so you guys need to reread my post.

firs of all, i left it saying it was incomplete, and id try to put more thought into it later.

khamisa said: why not just lynch Emp since you have the opportunity? I think you want to save him, because is your partner.


because, as i explained or i thought at least showed in my analysis, that empking has less leads than you. if we kill emp, we'e still stuck on where to go next, but if we lynch you khamisa, we would clear emp as townie (from my viewpoint a least) and then we can focus on the others. If we killed emp you would still be uncleared yourself and we would have made no headway at all.

Kise said: Pardon the peer pressure, but both Khamisa AND YOU are avoiding the Emp wagon.. so why did you only list her as Emp's scum partner and not yourself? No one else can vouch whether you're town or not, so your theory should have included the possibility that you are also a candidate to be Emp's partner.

My reply is, read my post at the very end, it's in bold and everything

why make theories for myself? i posted at the bottom that this is all speculation and that it requires faith in the fact that im townie. I'm not about to provide you with a bullet so you can shoot me. Think about it though, can you not trust me even a little? I think that I just supplied IMHO the best post so far this game, and it helped eliminate a lot of variables and everything, and I haven't really ddone anything anti-town. I know I can't prove my townieness, but when I finish my trian of thought and figure out the remaining pieces of my posts to fill, I'll have figured it out down to 2 or 3 likely candidates.

Think of this though: If I was emp's partner, why hasn't khamisa voted for emp yet? it would win the game right there if it held true...

[falkomagno]

well, khamisa can have reasonable doubt to vote emp. In fact, Khamisa hasn't cast a single serious vote in the game.

And I can see that SW has a valid point. If we lynch Emp right now, and he flips town, who cna be the next one??.

I have my personal view, but It depends of futher events

[Kise]

All I'm saying SW is that it now looks like (if Khamisa is town) that you're taking advantage of the fact she hasn't hammered Emp and want to clear him as townie, when he [could be] your partner. It just doesn't make sense to ONLY link Khamisa to Emp... if you really thought Khamisa & Emp were partners, then you could have killed them both by lynching Emp while he's at L-1.

Also I asked you, who else (besides Emp) do you think could be Khamisa's partner if she is not scum with Emp?

[Kise]

khamisa said: why not just lynch Emp since you have the opportunity? I think you want to save him, because is your partner.

OK, again... if you think they're partners, THEN LET'S GO AHEAD AND LYNCH EMP! We've got him on the ropes but you want to save him and lynch Khamisa!?!?

Khamisa, please vote Emp so we can kill both him and Saberwolf.

[Kise]

Woops, my bad. I misread that as Saberwolf speaking in the last sentence.

I should have quoted this though.

if we kill emp, we'e still stuck on where to go next, but if we lynch you khamisa,

we would clear emp as townie (from my viewpoint a least)

and then we can

focus on the others

. If we killed emp you would still be uncleared yourself and we would have made no headway at all.

Wow, so SW wants to lynch Khamisa. If she's town, then he suggests that we DON'T lynch Emp or himself.

Khamisa, please do the honors of putting these scum away.

[saberwolf]

you seem to be pushing real hard for a lynch now that actual logic's being used to play the game kise...feely a little jumpy there as scum?

I've already explained multiple times, i want khamisa instead of empking lynched because it isnt about if we're RIGHT, it's all about if we're WRONG. My approach is all about minimizing the options to make a more accurate lynch. If empking flips as townie, we have still almost evey possible team combo to work on, and basically from there its just a shot in the dark at winning the game. If we vote kham though, we have fewer options available to look at, which is better for us, the townies.

So I'm now going to do an analysis called: What if we're wrong

If Empking flips townie at lynch

we have learned nothing, and have no new ideas on who the real scum are. Everyone is still as suspicious as before. Kham and myself would still seem suspicious, and so do the other 3 for ganging up on him.

If Khamisa flips townie at lynch

we then clear empking as townie by theory, and we focus on FC/Kise/Falko/Saber

Kise, if you are so determined that empking is scum, and youre fine with my claim on kham, then why not allow kham to get lynched if emp dies along anyways? Once again, I don't think we should lynch empking because lynching kham provides us with more info and less team combinations than if we lynched empking.

Kise: if we end up voting and lynching emp and you are wrong, you are going to look super suspicious for that overeager lynching

I have more theory to share, but it's too early for me to reveal [depends on future posts] ...until then, lets talk among ourselves while we work it out some more, but we shouldn't be too eager to lynch just yet...we only have two tries people, lets work this out logically.