Micro 214 -- Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

[Alexcellent]

@alex - what's your definition of bandwagoning?

Voting for someone who already has a vote on them.

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 1 - 3

• runnerman

  (3) (Alexcellent - Amrun - Narrow)
  
  
  Alexcellent
  (2) (JKMatthews - hohum)
  
  
  Amrun
  (2) (F-16_Fighting_Falcon - runnerman)
  
  
  JKMatthews

  (0) (

  runnerman

  )
  
  
  OhGodMLife

  (0) (

  F-16_Fighting_Falcon

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2) (Jake From State Farm - OhGodMyLife)

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2013-08-26 11:17:00)

[JKMatthews]

Well Jake's here and OGML is at least going to catch up, so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: runnerman

This is L-1

[Alexcellent]

Well Jake's here and OGML is at least going to catch up, so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: runnerman

This is L-1

Better late than never

[JKMatthews]

Ah so suddenly you're ok with me because I'm on the wagon you want me to be on?

You're still very much in my sights, sir...

[Amrun]

Unvote

Vote: Falcon

[JKMatthews]

Explanation...?

[Amrun]

Three guesses.

[runnerman]

Oh hey, my primary scum read is implying I should move my vote onto someone and put them at L-1 with a big chance of early hammer! What to do...

An actual villager wouldn't be so lax in his opinion. What villager would need to think about this? ^

My wagon formed so fast and enthousiastically, it has to have attracted scum. I think we got one here.

This your reason for voting JKM? He didn't even join your wagon though...

Because he couldn't without almost killing me and looking like scum, but he did express the intent to vote me. Almost like probing what people would think about it. But like I said in my earlier post, this can swing both ways, can also be a genuine town expression of his thoughts.

[runnerman]

And now while I was typing this up he actually votes me. See that he was setting this up? Surely I'm not the only one that finds this suspicious.

[runnerman]

I would specifically like to hear Alex and Amrun's opinion on what I just said.

[Amrun]

The jury is still out, but I like how you're thinking.

[runnerman]

Well Jake's here and OGML is at least going to catch up, so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: runnerman

This is L-1

Better late than never

wtf is this?

[JKMatthews]

runnerman - do you not understand the case against you, or do you just not like it?

Amrun, guessing is for suckers. Explain yourself.

[runnerman]

Not sure if I should vote for alex or JK. It doesn't look like they can both be scum together but that one of them is seems like a real possibility. For reasons stated above:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: JKMatthews

[JKMatthews]

runnerman - do you not understand the case against you, or do you just not like it?

[runnerman]

Please explain your case, I'd love to hear it.

[JKMatthews]

So you don't understand the case against you, but haven't questioned it until now? You've just accused people voting you of being scum. Nice.

You were initially suspicious because you said "Alex is the scummiest, but could also be town, I'm gonna vote for someone else"
-I made the "I'd vote him" comment to gauge your/Alex's reaction while sort of suspecting you
You were only interested in the quick wagon on you, despite the fact there was a quicker wagon of the same size on somebody else when you voted for Falcon
-I began to suspect you strongly
Post 62 "whatever, I'm a villager so if you want to waste a lynch on me go ahead" isn't a townie mindset
Your vote for me as part of this scum driven wagon that I wasn't even a part of creating or even voting for (which Alex was on - what happened to your suspicion of him?).
You saying everyone needs to be open but not making any effort to do anything outside of "mafia 101" as you put it yourself.
Accusing Amrun of not having town motivation behind posts but instead trying to look like town (hypocrisy). Really the issue here is you seem to be just taking snipes where you can as though you're hoping something will catch on, rather than actually scrutinising and looking for scum.
"People who I agree with are townie and people I don't agree with are scummy" is the most foolish thing I've ever read in a game that's about discussion.
Implying that me voting for you once a) I'd made sure you couldn't be accidentally lynched and b) you were scummy enough that I wouldn't actually mind you getting lynched is somehow me being scummy
The fact that this conversation had to happen.

Now, why do you suspect me again? Because I voted for you?

[runnerman]

Interesting. From my pov things went down quite differently obviously. But I don't think you'd make a post like that if you were scum. I'm satisfied for now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Alexcellent

I can understand how some of these things can look scummy if you just look at them in isolation and not as a part of my behavior as a hole. One thing I strongly disagree with you on however is

"People who I agree with are townie and people I don't agree with are scummy" is the most foolish thing I've ever read in a game that's about discussion.

That is only because you phrase it like that. Let me explain. From experience I know that the strongest town read I can have on someone is that their thoughts echo my own. In fact this is a tell for me that has had a 100% success rate in spotting villagers. That's in over 30 games of mafia. And it's not as simple as "ok he agrees with me" or even "he takes the same stance as me" as you seem to put it. I'm talking about seeing actual thought patterns that I had too.

Now what I was saying here is not that I have this strong of a read on anyone atm, but that when I see parts of this in someone it's a town read for me.

About thinking someone who opposes you or says things you totally don't agree with is scummy. This is a natural reflex everyone has. I try to put myself above it and will continue to do so.

[runnerman]

And no I didn't vote for you just as spite because you voted for me. I voted for you because as I said you seemed to be setting up a vote without making it because you realized it would be bad play or seem scummy to make the vote outright. It looked to me like you were possibly trying to feel out if others would agree you should vote me. And only when you felt you had the approval of other villagers you went ahead and voted. That looked like a scum move to me.

[Jake from State Farm]

having trouble wrapping my head around this game but I did manage to iso runnerman and I don't really see scum intent in his posts, so I think this wagon is bad.

[Amrun]

For the record, runnerman, I completely agree with you about echoing thoughts being a town tell. But not all people think like you, so not doing so isn't really a scum tell. You also need to be careful of your position in the game and be suspicious of people replicating your thoughts on purpose.

However, why wouldn't jk make a post like that as scum? Do you not think scum can make cases?

[runnerman]

However, why wouldn't jk make a post like that as scum? Do you not think scum can make cases?

He can be, but like I said I'm satisfied from our interaction. The gloating way he went about it is more towny than scum.

[Amrun]

Why is gloating town?

[runnerman]

sigh