Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[lordy]

M4yhem replaces in. Seol is replaced..

Get cracking.

[M4yhem]

I sure do.
Hi everyone!

Hi Rosso! How's it going?

Hi Thok

My initial impressions:
The LML-PJ thing seems like a typical day one argument between two townies. I have never had a problem with people talking about the setup. On the other hand, I never read the rules either, unless the game setup is special, so I can see where Loudmouth is coming from.

Self-voting is pretty stupid IMO, but not necessarily scummy.

AmeliaSlay is fence sitting and making jokey posts.

Fos

for non-contribution.

Seol is the most obviously pro-town player I’ve ever seen.

Thok-you seemed to be making an issue out of what I consider a non-issue; PJ didn’t seem like he was fishing at all to me.

Fos

for pushing a bad point further.

Rosso is much quieter here than he was in the other game I played with him. However, he's given reasons which I find believable. I think he's just a distracted townie.

Pooky is either buddying up to Rosso, or being his loveable self. Probably the second one.

CES, Tyfo-Post or Perish.

It’s interesting how in post 77 Al_Kohaulic preemptively defends himself.

My guess at scumgrouping: Thok, Al and Ameliaslay

Vote:Mith

Because Mith is the godfather, which is the title of a mafia movie. Clear scum there.

Will someone please explain what a null tell is?

[Ameliaslay]

Fence-sitting and part of a scum group to boot.. Interesting.
Depending on what context you're using null, a null tell is most likey one that's been made obsolete because of its common-place status (that is, its over-cited or pointed out)
:shrug:

[Thok]

Thok-you seemed to be making an issue out of what I consider a non-issue; PJ didn’t seem like he was fishing at all to me.

Fos

for pushing a bad point further.

Huh? I've never accused PJ of fishing. I've accused him of other things, but not fishing. (The only reference I've made to fishing is that LML was borderline fishing.) I've accused PJ of subtly attacking me while trying to justify not moving his random vote. I don't know how you get fishing out of that.

By a null tell, I mean that something a specific player would do independent of his role alignment (i.e. something that's neither a townie or scum tell for that player).

[mith]

al: Is that supposed to make me feel better? Now it sounds like you're deliberately trying to stay under the radar.

We have a new contestant, though!

M4yhem analyzes pretty much everyone

except

me, and then makes an apparently random vote on me,

after

guessing at a scum group.

Still want more from MM, but:

Unvote: Machiavellian-Mafia, Vote: M4yhem

[petroleumjelly]

My guess at scumgrouping: Thok, Al and Ameliaslay

Vote:Mith

Because Mith is the godfather, which is the title of a mafia movie. Clear scum there.

Yeah, that's a little contradictory there. It's fine to pressure people not in your proposed scum-group (I don't know how jokingly you made that statement), but after you have provided analysis and suspicions, I think you can do better than to random vote at this stage of the game.

FoS: M4yhem

.

[M4yhem]

Oh come on now mith; it was a random vote. I like to have at least one in every game. Zero reasoning behind it, I assure you.

Your overreaction to it is certainly interesting...by which I mean scummy. Surely you've had people random vote you before? I know it's page five but I only just got here. There's really no need for the OMGUS. So are you voting me because you're nervous scum, or do you just think I make a soft target?

Either way, I've no wish to upset you mith, so I'll

unvote

since it was random.

Analysis of mith: I've never played with him before but I have read through some of bible mafia. The first thing I notice is that mith seems to be taking control a lot less here. He also seems to be fence-sitting a little, although he's suggested several suspects of his own accord, which is a pro-town sign in my mind.Verdict: unclear, need more data.

Thok:
Whoops, my apologies. I read the him in this quote:

Unless lordy made a serious mistake in his phrasing of the townie PM, LML's argument with PJ (especially the reference to the invitational, if I understand it correctly) is either him dramatically trying to outguess the mod or borderline fishing.

as meaning PJ when you were actually talking about LML. The Fos stays though, because I still feel you were making something out of nothing.

Ameliaslay- That's not much of a reaction to being called scum. You are one cool customer. Now, do you agree or disagree that you have been fence sitting?

Thanks for the definitions, Thok and Ameliaslay.

PJ-Sure, I could do better in terms of logic, but can I do better in terms of fun? Anyway, late random voting is basically a null tell for me, in Thok's sense of the word.

[mith]

Overreaction? OMGUS? Perhaps you should reread my post. My vote has nothing to do with you voting for

me

; it would have been the same had your vote gone elsewhere.

Now you call me scummy, throw in a little false dilemma... and then

unvote

to appease me. These are not the actions of a pro-town player looking for scum.

[Ameliaslay]

[quote=M4yhem]Ameliaslay- That's not much of a reaction to being called scum. You are one cool customer. Now, do you agree or disagree that you have been fence sitting?[/quote]
Why should I react to a ridiculous post? Fence-sitting, hmm... I dunno depends on what you mean.

[al_kohaulec]

When I read M4yhem's post, I was suspicious about him voicing who the three scum were, and then voting Mith. I hadn't at the time noticed that he didn't mention anything on Mith when he did to everybody else. His random vote is, as Mith says, quickly removed to 'appease' Mith. I didn't want to post until he responded to some of the above accusations because even though it looked like it could've been just a joke, the way he formed it still looked scummy and I wanted to hear if he would say whether or not he was joking w/o me influencing him towards saying it.

Then looking over his short review of players, it's mostly all one-liners. It's good that he's voicing his opinion of who he finds scummy and not, but he doesn't have any good reason.

As for who he said was scum, he said me for that 'premptative defense against nothing.' Thok for pushing a point further then it should go when it was something M4yhem considered a 'non-issue.' and finally Ameliaslay for fence sitting.

Until he elaborates on the fence sitting, his case against Amelia is the weakest, and I think his case against Thok is the only one with any good reasoning (but that's all how you interpret my "defense.")

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I like m4yhem's attempts to comment on everyone, but all his statements with not much reasoning doesn't make his point very solid? Can you give your points in more detail m4yhem?

[lordy]

A loud symphony of trumphets and drums drifts into the town square, following behind your detested moderator. You all line up and bow to him in a mock show of respect, mainly because he has a castration tool in his hands. Seeing that he has a crowd, he takes out his loudspeaker and contiunes ranting about what a nice thing vote counts are. You all are once again subject to a servere audiotory torture, but this time you keep quiet about it due to fear. Oh yes, before I forget, he carried a tray of cookies in his hands, and promised the town that he would be giving cookies to everyone if they start creating much more discussion, mainly because he feels that it has been dragging on in the last few days. He bids you all to be good townies, discuss and cookies, else he will impose a deadline, and a deadline isnt much of a good thing.

Rosso Carne: 2 (AmeliaSlay, Petroleum Jelly)
Mith: 1 (loud mouth lee)
Thok: 2:(Cognito Ergo Sum, Al_kohaulec)
Pooky: 1(Thok)
CES: 3(Seol, Pooky, Machiavellian-Mafia)
Al_kohaulec: 1(tyfo)
Petroleum Jelly: 1(Rosso)
M4yhem: 1(Mith)

12 in town, 7 to lynch.

[M4yhem]

I know my post on what has happened so far wasn't that detailed; it wasn't meant to be. I was just commenting on the things that struck me on the readthrough. Don't worry; if I vote someone I'll make a huge post on them explaining my reasons.

mith-I did reread your post and I still don't think you have a good reason for voting me. Is random voting on page five after replacing somebody scummy?
I don't think so. A little pointless maybe, but not scummy.

I didn't unvote to appease you. There was no point keeping the vote on since it was a random vote and I had already seen your reaction. You might say there was no reason to take it off but I don't like to leave my vote lying around.

Is calling you scummy scummy? Did I miss the memo?

As for the false dilemma; nothing in my role says that my arguements have to be perfectly crafted.

I think you are reaching, mith.

AmeliaSlay- Ridiculous? Ouch. Anyway, by fence-sitting I mean that you have avoided taking a stance on the main issues of today; instead of joining in you've elected to go after a soft target i.e. Rosso, who is quiet and therefore presents no danger to you.

Al_Kohaulec- I just think it a little odd that you tried to stop people attacking you even before they started. It suggests to me that you expect to be a target; but as far as I remember, noone has gone after you yet.

M-Mafia- Pick one point you want me to elaborate on. I don't have time to do the whole thing.

[Ameliaslay]

AmeliaSlay- Ridiculous? Ouch. Anyway, by fence-sitting I mean that you have avoided taking a stance on the main issues of today; instead of joining in you've elected to go after a soft target i.e. Rosso, who is quiet and therefore presents no danger to you

I was merely commenting, to say I was "going after" RC is an overstatement. What do you consider the main issues of today, and whoo gives you leave to decide which are and are not important?

[mith]

M4yhem,

Yes, the random vote itself was scummy, but you're not addressing my actual point, which was the random vote linked to the rest of your post.

No, calling me scummy itself is not scummy. Calling me scummy and then unvoting me is.

MM, I ask for content from you, I get... you asking M4yhem for content. Scumbuddies, perhaps?

[M4yhem]

Ameliaslay- I consider the main issues of the day to be things like the PJ + LML debate, the issue of whether or not self-voting is scummy, and the fact that people are going after Thok.
Looking at your posts I see you did actually comment on the PJ thing, which means I withdraw my accusation against you.
As for who gives me leave to decide things; I use my own judgement. I wasn't aware that I required a permission slip.

Mith-I'm not sure I understand your actual point. I think what you mean is that it's strange to post lots of analysis and then random vote; to which I can only answer that I like to vote randomly and that was the full extent of the thought that went into it. If that's not your point then please explain more fully.

I find you slightly scummy, but not enough for a 'real' vote. I'm also aware that I have a tendency to assume people attacking me are scum, so I'm holding back for now.

As for M-Mafia and me being scum together, I think you need a lot more evidence before you can say something like that. I mean, the guy's spoken to me once. Are you scum too, since you are talking to me?

But you're just mad because I'm after your buddy Thok, aren't you?

[Ameliaslay]

As for M-Mafia and me being scum together, I think you need a lot more evidence before you can say something like that. I mean, the guy's spoken to me once. Are you scum too, since you are talking to me?

My guess at scumgrouping: Thok, Al and Ameliaslay

Pot calling kettle black, much?

[Thok]

Ameliaslay- I consider the main issues of the day to be things like the PJ + LML debate, the issue of whether or not self-voting is scummy, and

the fact that people are going after Thok

.

I'd like you to clarify what you mean by the bolded comment, given that most of the "pressure" on me is based on originally contentless random votes.

Also, shouldn't the main issue of the day to be to figure out who is scum? And even if those are the main subissues, you could try to bring up new topics for discussion.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I still think Thok is scum. And I'd rather have cookies than a deadline(but that's just a personal preference.)

Current guess for scum group: Thok, LmL, M4yhem.

[M4yhem]

Pot calling kettle black, much?

Maybe, but so what? Anyway, it seemed like mith was being more serious with his accusations than I was.

Thok- It just seems like there’s a lot of interest in you.

And Dude, I am trying to find scum! Help me out, would you?


CES- How about a little reasoning? Or do you just suspect me cause all the cool kids are doing it?

I also want cookies. What happened to everybody? I’m pretty sure Rosso and PJ have been posting in other games, so why aren’t they posting here?

Anyway, I read through Amelia and Thok’s posts and couldn’t find anything useful.

So I’m going for my other suspect:

For those who I can already see will accuse me of being scum with PJ and defending him. I am pointing out arguments for lynching PJ that I don't agree with, and I am pointing out why I don't agree with them. I don't think I should sit idly by while a townie gets lynched for those reasons when I don't agree with them personally.

Two things bother me about this, Al:
1. Why are you sounding so defensive when only Tyfo has voted you? Guilty conscience?
2. How do you know PJ is a townie?

Vote:Al_Kohaulec

[al_kohaulec]

Two things bother me about this, Al:
1. Why are you sounding so defensive when only Tyfo has voted you? Guilty conscience?
2. How do you know PJ is a townie?

Vote:Al_Kohaulec

1.) I'm explaining my actions. They will be questioned, as they are being now by you. I had no idea how many votes I had until you told me just now. That's not what was important to me. Just like I said in my post, in that quote, if I don't agree with something, I'm not going to sit by and watch it happen, I'm going to do something about it. In the game of mafia, if we see a player we believe to be town, if we sit idly by while he's being attacked, we'll slowly lose the game.
2.) I don't

know

that he's a townie, but I don't see how any of the arguments I've seen against him hold any relevance towards him being scum.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Rosso Carne, Vote: M4yhem

. I could go on for paragraphs, but lets cut this down:

1.) Proposing a three person scum group, but random voting instead
2.) Unvoting at a mere suggestion (admits lack of support for vote), with the caveat "no wish to upset you"
3.) Turning statements into something they don't mean (i.e. "how do you

know

PJ is a townie?")
4.) Strongly insinuating that mith is scum, while later saying the verdict is "unclear" in the next paragraph down (in post 106)
5.) Saying mith "overreacted" to his original vote, which I do not believe was the case. It's page five, and random votes should be out of the question, especially for a player who used that same post to detail their own suspicions.

Cookies > Deadline, please.

[M4yhem]

PetroleumJelly:

1)How is random voting scummy? What does it achieve for me if I'm scum?

2) It was a random vote. How long was I supposed to have kept it on?And I don't have any wish to upset mith; is that some sort of problem?

3)So I'm reaching. So are lot's of people. That's how we find scum, isn't it?

4)I change my mind alot. This does not make me scum; it makes me indecisive.What's wrong with thinking about all the possibilities?

5) What's wrong with random voting on page five? Does it hurt the town in some way I'm unaware of? I had just replaced in so it was like page one to me, and I wanted to have a little fun. And I'm sick and tired of talking about it. Explain how late random voting is a good tactic for scum, and then you'll have a case against me.

Al_Kohaulec- I don't believe you. Vote stays.

[mith]

pj's summary is pretty much what I would've said, so I won't waste words repeating it.

To elaborate on the "Scumbuddies, perhaps?", when I read MM's post, I got a feeling that he was trying to... help M4yhem out a bit? It comes after attacks from five others.

It's also a factor that they are my top two, obviously.

[M4yhem]

To be honest I think you are all just getting confused because I am a worse player than you expect me to be. I really didn't think at all about what the random vote would look like to the rest of you. As for making baseless accusations, yeah, that tends to be the way I play; I accuse someone of something and then see how they react to it. Depending on the reaction, I take it from there.

Mith, is there some reason you keep insisting M-Mafia is mafia? I looked through his posts and nothing stood out to me. Of course, he has barely posted at all so it's hard to get a read on him; but the same is true of Rosso, Pooky, CES and Ameliaslay. I've never been in a game with a self-voter before but from games I've read through, it seems to be something done equally often by scum and townies. Personally, I would never self-vote at the beginning of a game; that's a waste of a perfectly good random-voting opportunity.