Night Clan - [Game Over]

[Vaxkiller]

I'm a hard no on Kagamis plan.

[Nosferatu]

in any setup that revolves around a town minority that should be protected, its only natural that people will try to manipulate the setup to protect them. Starting that convo should not be townread, and especially not the one he came up with, with all of its flaws.

When you say "all of it's flaws," are you referring only to the one I explicitly mentioned? Furthermore, do you have a plan of your own or do you think any you've seen talked about are better significantly than the one I originally proposed?

that's beside the point. the point is that you presented a plan, flaws were pointed out, vax acknowledged those flaws, and continued to townread you ignoring it, simply cause you brought up a plan. aka no matter what kind of plan you provided, shitty or no, just because you tried, and tried ostensibly before anyone else, vax would think that the plan was town-minded, which doesn't make sense to me.

[Vaxkiller]

I thought about it (and hopefully most people did) but I think a formalized set hypo-targeting plan for daughters is a good way to start this game for at least the first night.

The simplest is everyone targets the next available non-daughter below them on the playerlist. #1 targets #2 etc. (unless #1 and #2 are both daughters than #1 targets #3, number #2 targets #4, granted this would suck, but it's a necessary evil; all plans of this sort run into the same problem but we can vote on any arbitrary one possibly).

I think we should agree to this relatively quickly before Mafia get any sense of the flow of the game. Doing this now avoids crumbs and an awkward hypo-claim process later.
Simply quote
Yeah
Nay

to express approval. I don't want this to be a drawn out affair

I read this post as town (as it did another, but you only addressed me). Regardless of weather the idea would work out or not the post sounds real. It doesn't sound contrived, made up, or some kind of secret scum agenda.

[Nosferatu]

And do it better.

I was originally going for a long enough computation to make it inconvenient to brute force, but scaled it down to make it easy. O well.

btw if you plan on like rewriting that earlier code to be shorter,

Code: Select all

def primes_to(n):
    multiples = set()
    for i in range(2, n+1):
        if i not in multiples:
            yield i
            multiples.update(range(i*i, n+1, i))
print(list(primesto(1000000)))

faster/shorter prime function if you want to use it

[Kagami]

Alright. Here's a much better version with an ELI5:

Run it here if you don't have python 3 on your own machine: https://www.python.org/shell/

You can copy and paste the whole thing there. It will hang for a while on the "for i in range(1000000):" and following line. If it's stopped at the end, then hit enter again.

Code: Select all

import numpy as np

daughters = [7, 3, 15]
donotvisit = []

visitable = [x for x in range(1, 18) if not x in daughters and not x in donotvisit]

dcode = sum([x * (17 ** i) for (i, x) in enumerate(sorted(daughters))])
np.random.seed(dcode)

for i in range(1000000):
    a = np.random.random(10000)


visitlist = [visitable[i] for i in np.random.permutation(len(visitable))]

for (i, d) in enumerate(sorted(daughters)):
    try:
        print('Daughter #{} should target player #{}'.format(d, visitlist[i]))
    except IndexError:
        print('Too many "do not visits" to generate more visitations')
 

Here's what it does.

-You give it a list of daughters, you give it a list of people that all the daughters have agreed not to visit.
-It makes a list of visitable people from the numbers not in daughters or donotvisit
-It makes a unique number (dcode) from the combination of daughters. Every different set of daughters (ignoring ordering) gives a different number.
-It seeds the random number generator with that value. This just makes it so that all the "random" stuff it does from here on will be exactly the same for anyone who runs it with the same set of daughters.
-Now it does nothing useful for a long time (a few minutes on my laptop). This is by design to make it annoying for anyone trying to reverse engineer the daughter combo. It can't be skipped or the final combo will come out differently
-Now it "randomly" comes up with a list of people amongst the visitable players.
-Lastly it prints out who should visit who.

Go ahead and give it a try.

[Nosferatu]

I read this post as town (as it did another, but you only addressed me). Regardless of weather the idea would work out or not the post sounds real. It doesn't sound contrived, made up, or some kind of secret scum agenda.

not saying it doesn't, I'm just saying that your reasons for keeping it after a flaw was pointed out an acknowledged seemed dubious to me. I would like to know what super piano chick thinks too

[Kagami]

By "hang for a while," I mean for a few minutes. Again, this is unnecessary but intentional.

[Kagami]

For daughters = [7, 3, 15] I get:

Daughter #3 should target player #11
Daughter #7 should target player #2
Daughter #15 should target player #4

[Cabd]

For daughters = [7, 3, 15] I get:

Daughter #3 should target player #11
Daughter #7 should target player #2
Daughter #15 should target player #4

Can confirm this works exactly the same results for me.

[Vaxkiller]

Ugh, I fucked something up and the same code is there every time I visit the site. Went incognito to fix that issue, but I'm about to leave work, will try later tonight.

You guys are talking to someone who failed Turbo Pascal 15+ years ago. I'd really love a simpler solution.

[Kagami]

Doesn't matter if the code is there, nothing will break if it's run twice.

[Vaxkiller]

I guess I just need to wait longer.

[Joey_]

Im slightly irritated by the amount of people with a k as the fisrt letter, i will be naming any of those by their last nane if they have one and i suggest others do the same

[Maki Harukawa]

you all do that while I try not to think on that cause my brain hurts

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Kagami's plan is solid with very little chance of error in the case of all 3 visiting scum on the first day. The only way scum can find anything out of it is if they learn all three identities of daughter which if the case we are lost anyway.

It will be an asset and for the people that think we are letting things up to chance, that is false. We will play the other part's of the game as normal.

Furthmore I find Vax insistence against it suspicious.

[Kagami]

I think we'll just do audibles informally.

If a mason doesn't want to visit their prescribed target, explicitly state him as a scumread; crumb the new target well enough that fellow masons can figure it out reliably.

[Hinduragi]

I get that, but we cant remove the daughters ability to choose.

What if daughters choose within 3 people above and below them to hide behind? MAYBE 2 above and below. It gives us an idea of where they were at least.


Also, we will have a VERY CLEAR IDEA whether they visited scum or hid behind the NK... hiding behind the NK results and 2 dead.

This doesn't do anything except give us a lynching pool with 1/6 or 1/4 confirmed scum with us not having any ideas as to who's the 1. Hard pass.

[Hinduragi]

Unvote; Vote: Joey

For the record, I don't like Vax's posting either. It hasn't sat right with me. I do like Nos' push amid all the setup discussion.

Also, is there any reasons we are calling hiders/daughters masons? It's confusing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There are three Daughters in this game. They are aligned with Town, and know each other's identities.

From the rule set, Hindu. They're confirmed town and know each other's identities. That's definition of Mason.

[Hinduragi]

There are three Daughters in this game. They are aligned with Town, and know each other's identities.

From the rule set, Hindu. They're confirmed town and know each other's identities. That's definition of Mason.

Fair enough. I just assumed without a PT they would simply be hiders.

Do you have any thoughts on things so far, LLD?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ah, I just realized they're hiders, not commuters.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There are three Daughters in this game. They are aligned with Town, and know each other's identities.

From the rule set, Hindu. They're confirmed town and know each other's identities. That's definition of Mason.

Fair enough. I just assumed without a PT they would simply be hiders.

Do you have any thoughts on things so far, LLD?

I was writing a big post about "why don't the daughters all just claim?" but the more I thought about it the more awful it sounded because I realized they were hiders, and not commuters like I thoguht when I read the rules post first.

[Hinduragi]

There are three Daughters in this game. They are aligned with Town, and know each other's identities.

From the rule set, Hindu. They're confirmed town and know each other's identities. That's definition of Mason.

Fair enough. I just assumed without a PT they would simply be hiders.

Do you have any thoughts on things so far, LLD?

I was writing a big post about "why don't the daughters all just claim?" but the more I thought about it the more awful it sounded because I realized they were hiders, and not commuters like I thoguht when I read the rules post first.

Lolrip

What's your take on the python thing and player-wise?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There are three Daughters in this game. They are aligned with Town, and know each other's identities.

From the rule set, Hindu. They're confirmed town and know each other's identities. That's definition of Mason.

Fair enough. I just assumed without a PT they would simply be hiders.

Do you have any thoughts on things so far, LLD?

I was writing a big post about "why don't the daughters all just claim?" but the more I thought about it the more awful it sounded because I realized they were hiders, and not commuters like I thoguht when I read the rules post first.

Lolrip

What's your take on the python thing and player-wise?

Informed Minority Advantage is a problem.

If everyone targets someone different, the three scum can point and say "if these 3 are hiders, they would all die".

Then, they get to do hider hunting, because they get to say "this person is the most likely to be the Daughter... and they're likely targetting here. Let's kill that person and down them both."

Because don't forget, the daughters are compulsive hiders. Which means there are two ways for scum to win

1) kill all the daughters

or

2) kill all the NON daughters. Because if that ever happens, the daughters MUST hide behind the scum, and we lose that scenario. Even if there are more daughters than scum remaining.

So if we confirm targets from players, it will eliminate PRIVATELY for the scum who is NOT the hiders.

Eventually, this will confirm for the scum who the daughters are, but not the town.

Each night we progress with this, the worse it will become.

I feel this plan needs some review.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also am getting bad tingles from Kagami.