i'm not sure how much an agar (assuming that penguin was the vig shot, which seems at the moment a decent assumption) kill makes sense with zito / hayker scum. to be fair, i think i might be ignoring the counterfactual here, which is simply why agar was killed at all, not even considering why specific teams might have killed him (and i have given that question less thought than i probably should have).In post 576, AGar wrote: #547 - If Hayker is scum, Zito is town. Book it.
Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]
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northsidegal Survivor
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dann, i think there are some inconsistencies in the zito/hayker narrative that i want to mull over a bit with you. i guess the first isn't so much of an inconsistency so much as a really notable point, that of hayker's kind of weird and really strong townread on zito. it does, however, lead into the other point—agar said this:-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i wouldn't say that i'm "tinfoiling" him necessarily, just that whereas before he was one of my only townreads i wouldn't really put him up there anymore.In post 1024, unwnd wrote:
Yeah I'm tinfoiling him a good amount too, even if our reasons aren't fully similarIn post 1023, northsidegal wrote:oh, kazyan has sunk down a bit more to null for me since 940. i think a lot of my read was based on the idea that he actually was hectic, and he made a comment that seemed really hectic-town-indicative to me in 215, the "reactions more important than the act itself" point. given that he (as i now believe / know) isn't and given some tonally kind of scummy posts like 632 he's dropped-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i'm pretty confident in lunar being town such that i'd be really surprised if he ended up being scum, mostly because he's played in a way that really doesn't seem like in general how a newer player would play scum, nor does it seem like for him specifically he's playing his scum game. zito brought up earlier some point about him dying before lylo or some such as a liability, and i bring up him bringing that up only to disagree on both a reads level and a philosophical level. people "needing to die" should be struck from any town player's vocabulary.
anyways, to go into some specific examples while not overstating the subject, i think that lunar probably doesn't go really hard against the guy defending him (ben) like he does in 246 if he were scum. it doesn't match how he interacted with his partners in the one scum newbie game i saw from him and i would doubt that he would interact with a townie like that as scum – i'd imagine he'd just ignore it. (not sure why i bring up the partner point when ben is conftown already but whatever)
also just in general he's playing a pretty aggressive game such that it doesn't feel like he has anyone that he could be partnered with. again i'm going off of his other scumgame here with regards for what i was looking for in terms of partner interactions, but still even without that i feel as though he lacks almost any partner associatives. there are some other random posts that also seem like they basically only come from town too like 264 and 604 but that's probably enough said on the subject-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i believe the term is LAMISTIn post 1028, unwnd wrote:Affirmative action was probably the wrong thing to say there
I'll rephrase: It looked he made such a deliberate point to basically say 'OK guys, here's the blatantly obvious thing townies should do, because I as well am town'
and yeah looking back i think that i sort of passed over it because if hectic were to say that i would understand it as him getting at some sort of underlying philosophy with regards to townies doing outrageous things, but without that context it doesn't quite look the same-
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northsidegal Survivor
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i also thought the continual numbering 1) 2) list thing was a hectic bit too but yeah
anyways enough about hectic-
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unwnd Jack of All Trades
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northsidegal Survivor
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scumread
i know that i harp on and on about not overfocusing on townies who do outrageous things but in this case i feel as though he did outrageous things and is just scum. we'll see if ignoring my own philosophy comes back to bite me, but to be fair another thing that a very wise townie once said is that the best townies know when to not dogmatically follow rules-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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northsidegal Survivor
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specifically among other things i think that his end of day votes yesterday were fairly scummy-
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whyIn post 1034, Gamma Emerald wrote:Y’all two need to read Hayker’s ISO once the flip happens-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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northsidegal Survivor
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oh yeah and in case i haven't said anything on the subject yet which i'm not sure if i have i think we're green light on hayker dying today-
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northsidegal Survivor
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point to specifics?In post 1037, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way Hayker handles Kazyan does not look like scum-scum interaction at all-
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He literally self-voted and gave up, I kinda think his mates are just lying low after the fact to avoid spewIn post 1038, northsidegal wrote:oh yeah and in case i haven't said anything on the subject yet which i'm not sure if i have i think we're green light on hayker dying todayStop-
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northsidegal Survivor
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so he did
anyways point to specifics on what you're talking about there?-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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These two posts make me very confident Kazyan is town upon Hayker’s scumflip
The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan townIn post 652, Hayker wrote:I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and then a silent vote on Alchemist. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.
Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts. My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.vote:kazyan
This seems a weird thing to post for a buddy, especially since daytalk is unencryptedIn post 668, Hayker wrote:In post 664, Kazyan wrote:I mean, sure, but I still don't get why that makes me scum.
Hammer is in hand, but I'm gonna listen to another post or two from NPOM in case he talks us down.
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northsidegal Survivor
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oh man this is annoying, i get no quality dann time (probably)
@datisi how much bribe money for you to "forget" to check the thread for a day or so-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Yeah I'm pretty down on my "Papa Zito is Hayker's scum buddy" theory nowIn post 1025, northsidegal wrote:'m not sure how much an agar (assuming that penguin was the vig shot, which seems at the moment a decent assumption) kill makes sense with zito / hayker scum.
Mostly I was freaking at how quiet the game was and then Zito seemed to be the only one interacting with Hayker at all who I'd figured was caught scum
but I don't super feel like this is a game in which scum are being especially pro-active-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm here but I can't promise qualityIn post 1044, northsidegal wrote:oh man this is annoying, i get no quality dann time (probably)
@datisi how much bribe money for you to "forget" to check the thread for a day or so-
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northsidegal Survivor
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so you're confident in elements being scum?In post 1043, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan town
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