Mini-Normal 2070 is done

[Nero Cain]

chennisden(4)-Skellen, Jingle, Egix96, RuiRui
themilkcartonkid(3)-Vorkuta, chennisden, Inferno390
Egix96(1)-RadiantCowbells

Not voting: davesaz, themilkcartonkid, John Pierce Gantt

Deadline is (expired on 2019-04-25 22:00:00)

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm so happy that happened

[Nero Cain]

I've prodded Skellen. Look at me, doing mod stuff.

[Inferno390]

Chen’s D1 was poor. Lurking most of the day and the few posts he did make were not productive.
Now this phase has been somewhat better. His posts feel solvey. The problem is that those posts are also not the greatest. The consistency is not perfect. And he is repeating what others are saying a little bit. But while it’s not great posting, it’s not screaming scum to me either. Hence the lean.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I've prodded Skellen. Look at me, doing mod stuff.

How about dave?

he was on v/la till Sunday so his prod timer is different.

[Inferno390]

Inferno, do you townread chennisden?

I do not. I am slightly leaning scum on him.

I checked Infernos iso because this post surprised me. Turns out they've been shading chen all day 2 with no reason stated and often argues in a way that says "yeah, ignore their scumminess" in favor of different lynches. also, this is +town for rui I think.

I’m strongly put off by this post. I’ve literally been agreeing with you and Jingle that Chen’s posting is not great. That’s not shading. And I am not “ignoring their scumminess in favor of other lynches.” The only lynch I’ve pushed today is you. Which if I haven’t made clear, is because I think there is more merit for scum!milk than scum!Chen right now based on the narrative of the game so far. That’s very clearly not the same thing, and the fact that you would portay it as such is very much a misrep of today.

[themilkcartonkid]

Inferno, do you townread chennisden?

I do not. I am slightly leaning scum on him.

I checked Infernos iso because this post surprised me. Turns out they've been shading chen all day 2 with no reason stated and often argues in a way that says "yeah, ignore their scumminess" in favor of different lynches. also, this is +town for rui I think.

I’m strongly put off by this post. I’ve literally been agreeing with you and Jingle that Chen’s posting is not great. That’s not shading. And I am not “ignoring their scumminess in favor of other lynches.” The only lynch I’ve pushed today is you. Which if I haven’t made clear, is because I think there is more merit for scum!milk than scum!Chen right now based on the narrative of the game so far. That’s very clearly not the same thing, and the fact that you would portay it as such is very much a misrep of today.

No it's not. You've been saying "look I know hes scummy, but here's where your logic might be flawed and heres where hes coming from. You're defending his slot and position while sharing him

[themilkcartonkid]

Shading

[Inferno390]

That is not what I am doing at all. Saying that what you and Jingle are saying has validity to it is not the same as shading someone.
You are very clearly interpreting the facts and taking my posts out of context in such a way as to make what I’m saying look bad.

[themilkcartonkid]

That is not what I am doing at all. Saying that what you and Jingle are saying has validity to it is not the same as shading someone.
You are very clearly interpreting the facts and taking my posts out of context in such a way as to make what I’m saying look bad.

But like, I'm not.

[Inferno390]

But like, you are.
Here, let me put it in context for you.

Chen:

As scum do you nightkill lynchbait who is pushing you?

Why does scum want to infiltrate the neighborhood?

Did you read:

Please let me know if you want to join me and a mysterious third person in partying hardy.

Does it effect your tmck read?

@Jingle:

No. IMO lynchbait pushing me just makes me harder to lynch.

Scum can buddy and if you're a PR they can learn more about your plans and scum can counteract. From my experience it's a lot easier for scum to live in a neighborhood.

For my tmck read it makes me think he's scum even more

Inferno, or whoever, what do yall think about this inconsistent logic, is it scum or town or total nai?

Why is it inconsistent? It’s only inconsistent according to your logic (scum doesn’t want to be a neighborhood at all). I don’t think that’s true. A good scum player would actually welcome to opportunity, because if they could convince the neighborhood that they are Town, it gives scum an edge. Also, in a neighborhood, scum has the opportunity to be privy to info (especially, as I have pointed out already, PR) info that they wouldn’t have otherwise, which again, would give them an edge.

And while Jingle’s reasoning makes sense, yours doesn’t nearly as much. I highly doubt scum is going to play so differently between a PT and the main thread that’s it’s going to be noticeable, and they’d really have to not be paying attention to slip up enough to actually incriminate themselves. Part of what a good scum player has to do is be consistent. And unless they’re really having to fabricate the things they’re saying, I highly doubt they’re going to be inconsistent, and if they are, they’re probably already doing it once the main thread.

In summary, I think you are intentionally ignoring a line of thought here and promoting the version that makes you look the towniest. While Chen doesn’t read great, you saying everything he’s saying is illogical while simultaneously implying that there’s no reason why scum would want to be neighborhood, and therefore what you’re doing is town. I don’t think that’s true, and I think it feels pretty LAMIST.
VOTE: Milk

Inferno:

Logic Track 1:

Axe was pushing tmck. Axe was likely to be lynched. tmck is therefore the only person to have a reason to kill axe.

Logic Track 2:

If someone who is liable to be a mislynch is pushing me, I should not kill them, because keeping them around will help me stay alive.

These are implicitly contradictory. Either the premise is that scum milk is worse at picking NK's than scum chen or chen is pushing something he doesn't see scum doing as scummy.

The important question is whether the latter would come from town who is surface leveling the shit out of that read or scum making it up.

Inferno:

Logic Track 1:

Axe was pushing tmck. Axe was likely to be lynched. tmck is therefore the only person to have a reason to kill axe.

Logic Track 2:

If someone who is liable to be a mislynch is pushing me, I should not kill them, because keeping them around will help me stay alive.

These are implicitly contradictory. Either the premise is that scum milk is worse at picking NK's than scum chen or chen is pushing something he doesn't see scum doing as scummy.

The important question is whether the latter would come from town who is surface leveling the shit out of that read or scum making it up.

See the problem with this is the word “implicitly.” Chen said he would not shoot lynchbait at night if they were pushing them. Does that mean that no one would do it ever? No. Does that not mean that the line of thought of scum!milk makes sense? No.
Does this not look great for Chen? No. But it does not mean it is something Chen does not see scum doing. It just means it is something Chen would not do as scum. That is an important difference. And Axe did make a strong end post casing milk to finish out the day yesterday, which could be influencing how Chen views the situation.

From this it is very, very clear that I am not just shading Chen. You and Jingle are saying Chen’s posting is bad. I am agreeing with you. Not the same thing. Never ever the same thing. Will never be the same thing.
This is BS and you know it.

[Inferno390]

Also, I love how the two people you are throwing shade at/wagoning are the two people pushing you this day phase.

[Inferno390]

In fact, the only people you’ve pushed as scum are me and Chen in response to our reads on you, Axe and Tchill on the wagons, and Gantt and RC. And the RC one you’ve redacted. I don’t like the context of where those reads are coming from.

[themilkcartonkid]

I reread the iso. Please somebody check me here. I think that Inferno's outrage in D1 is bad. They made no real reads apart from axe, which was a very duh read and seemed omgus. That being said, I can see where his read developed on my a little better and its not as bad as I thought. What does concern me is that his posts seem to be focusing purely on weird lines of what counts as good logic or not. Is that a skill thing or not I can't tell. Also "Saying that what you and Jingle are saying has validity to it is not the same as shading someone." is not the whole picture. What pinged me is the fact that you agree with the fact that chen is scummy, but IMMEDIATELY switch attention to someone else's wagon (mine). I don't care who's wagon it is, that seems scummy ESPECIALLY when two those two wagons are opposed. It seems to me like you're trying to keep chen distanced from yourself enough to say that you were "just pointing out my logical flaws" without actually having to lynch scummy logic. Please someone else read the iso and set me straight please.

[Inferno390]

Actually, I don’t like the way you interact with RC at all. First you call him scum for no reason as far as I can see, but then you spend the rest of the day ignoring him or treating him like town. You don’t even push the read. And then you come back and say everything at the beginning of D2 about town!RC. It’s all very off.

[themilkcartonkid]

In fact, the only people you’ve pushed as scum are me and Chen in response to our reads on you, Axe and Tchill on the wagons, and Gantt and RC. And the RC one you’ve redacted. I don’t like the context of where those reads are coming from.

My reads are NOT based on your response to my wagon, nor chens. They're based on your lack of putting your vote where your scumread is and chen's lack of logic to his read. I don't think chen's read is real, and I don't know why you won't vote chen after admitting his logic is scummy. You were not even on my radar until I isod JP and it was his association that made me sr you. I thought you were tunneling town. It was only after I ISOd you for other associatives that I came to my conclusion. You are the one misrepping.
Pedit: please explain?

[Inferno390]

Just because I agree with you that Chen’s play is poor does not mean I think he is scum.
And I agree with you that he is scummy, yet it suprised you that I had a scum lean on him?
There is so much flaily bad logic in what you are saying that it makes me hurt. You are just throwing words in an attempt to derail me atp.

[themilkcartonkid]

Just because I agree with you that Chen’s play is poor does not mean I think he is scum.
And I agree with you that he is scummy, yet it suprised you that I had a scum lean on him?
There is so much flaily bad logic in what you are saying that it makes me hurt. You are just throwing words in an attempt to derail me atp.

It surprised me because you were tunneling me instead, THEN you said you agreed with me about him being scummy. BEFORE you just said you disagreed with his logic, NOW you're calling him scummy.

[Inferno390]

I am not “not putting my vote where my scumread is.” My strongest scumread is YOU. I’m not sure how that’s clear.
I have said that his logic does not read great. I have also said that you and Jingle are twisting his logic into something it is not. You are very clearly painting what Chen is saying as something far worse than it actually is. Chen’s play is poor, yes. But it’s not nearly as a bad as the BS you’ve been throwing in an attempt to shake both him and me. Which sets off a lot more alarms for you considering that Chen’s play is not good. If his play was really as terrible as you make it out to be, you would not be flailing nearly this hard against him.

[themilkcartonkid]

Do you sr jingle?

[Inferno390]

I am going to lay out my entire argument in one really long post to make it explicitly clear.

I scumlean Chen. Play was very poor D1, but today, while his logic could use some work, feels solvey and like he’s sorting.
Chen is NOT my strongest scumread. My strongest scumread is milk. He has felt exceptionally flaily today. His response to my neighborhood questions was incredibly poor. He is misrepping what I am doing and painting what Chen is saying in a far worse light than it actually is. The only things milk has seriously pushed was the Axe and Tchill wagons yesterday, and me and Chen today after we started pushing him. He is saying my focus on logic is weird, except that is exactly what he is doing to rebuff Chen, and Chen’s logic is not even near as bad as what milk is making it out to be. And to top it all off, the narrative of the game shows that Axe was looking to flip his game around at the end of D1, starting with a strong case on milk. Axe was shot at night, and when pressured on it, milk has done little but flail and call those pushing him scum. He has not given an alternative narrative as to what happened, or even shown support for one of the ones offered. He has simply pushed back on those applying pressure.
In addition, upon reading his ISO, the way milk interacts with RC does not feel natural. He starts out by calling him scum for no reason. Then he interacts with RC as though he thought RC was town, bouncing off him, sending him questions and not pushing his read at all. We enter D2 with milk saying that there is a possible narrative for town!RC. This does not feel like natural progression.
Milk is, based on this evidence, my strongest scumread by far and away.

[Inferno390]

Do you sr jingle?

I actually do not have an opinion on Jingle at the moment. I hadn’t paid much attention to the slot besides the fact that we had a mechanical and logic debate.
However, if what you are trying to say is that I can’t scumread you for the whole logic debacle of I don’t do the same for Jingle, the way you two approached that idea was very different, and whereas Jingle hasn’t said anything #966, afterwhich I pointed out the flaw in what he was saying, you are still flail-pushing against everything I say.

[themilkcartonkid]

Can you please provide the post for where I called RC scum? Also, I have not called the original person who pointed out the nk scum and in fact dont think he is atm. You can say I've flailed, I cant really respond to that other than that i have tried to give logical responses to your post.

[Inferno390]

Certainly I can quote the post.

I'm fairly certain theres at least 1 scum between jp, rc, axe, and tchill

. So that's great. If I had to vote one of them right now it would be axe, but I dont trust my read there because its influenced by tone and theres a few things that dont match up with my internal logic. I dont think inferno has absolutely screamed scum since their first few posts but they havent pkayed well as town either. I do think they over reacted to their push, but that's nai atm. Will probably influence my read later post someone flipping. Honestly, I dont get the push on tchill. Seems more actually annoyed town than inferno did and RC tred inferno for that. Jp I dunno.. again mostly tone plus have they actually brought anything other than parroting? If they were lurking that would be one thing, but they post a good bit. Vork, what have they said scummy, someone whose tring them, what do you find good about them?

[Inferno390]

And yeah you’re not pushing Vork, but Vork did not push that read either. There’s a difference between saying things and actually pushing them.