Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)

[Nathann]

I started with the assumption that Prime Cultists wouldn't vote their Leader, and went from there.

BBT voted Bella and Jacket.
Bella voted BBT and Jacket.
furtive voted Jacket.
Jacket voted BBT and Bella.

each of the 4 of them got voted twice by others, except for furtive that didn't get voted at all. I thought that was out Cult Leader, but only then I realized he cannot be. If he's the Leader, Jacket has to be Prime, and one of BBT/Bella has to be Prime. But whichever one of them were Prime would've gotten hammered for the win by now. So that's not it.

So, at least at some point did at least Prime vote their Leader. Very useful info, I know.

[Enchant]

It's basically dice roll.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have laid out clearly why it is Bella.

What is going on?

[Enchant]

Mafia is hard.

BBT would Fultive be CL on your opinion?

[furtiveglance]

I started with the assumption that Prime Cultists wouldn't vote their Leader, and went from there.

BBT voted Bella and Jacket.
Bella voted BBT and Jacket.
furtive voted Jacket.
Jacket voted BBT and Bella.

each of the 4 of them got voted twice by others, except for furtive that didn't get voted at all. I thought that was out Cult Leader, but only then I realized he cannot be. If he's the Leader, Jacket has to be Prime, and one of BBT/Bella has to be Prime. But whichever one of them were Prime would've gotten hammered for the win by now. So that's not it.

So, at least at some point did at least Prime vote their Leader. Very useful info, I know.

It was completely safe to vote Jacket at that time. Because the narrative had been bought and sold that Leader would never claim Vengeful. You've ruled me out as Cult Leader. If I was a Jester role, I would have got voted day 1 or 2, I'm great at getting voted. You must know I'm town, and Jacket is CL.

[Nathann]

I have laid out clearly why it is Bella.

Can you link it? I skipped some pages from Today since I wanted to focus on interactions from the previous Days.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mafia is hard.

BBT would Fultive be CL on your opinion?

I don't think so, I seem to remember Jacket pushing him? In order it's Bella, Furtive and then Jacket as most to least likely.

I'm pretty much certain it's Bella now though. It has to be

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Here's a thought: What if CL decided to claim vengeful.

This is partly because I'm not over my RH9 sus.

This confirms to me that Furtive or Bella are CL. I think it's likely to be Bella.

Reading through ISOs now.

Outside of vengeful claims I think Korina/Beat look Prime and Bella/Cat/Titus for Leader.

That Bellaphant E-2 from Korina stands out to me as a culty move. I get the feeling Bella isn't CL based on the way some culty people are happy with this vote.

Look how quickly Furtive managed to remove Bella from his CL pool here.

I could go for Bella or cat, I don't necessarily want to vote Titus because she doesn't seem like she's even trying to look town. I'd also vote furtive, his posts have really taken a nosedive for me.

ISO Furtive, Jacket and Bella together. Furtive and Jacket are consistently throwing shade at each other but neither of them show any *real* interest in pushing Bella despite mentioning her name a couple of times as an option.

It's Bella.

Enchant is Governor.

Jacket/Nathann/RH9 claimed Vengeful.

Me/BBT/Bella claimed VT.

This means BBT/Bella are confirmed Cult. I need to re-evaluate things.

Nice reevaluation.

If you're not cult, I think BBT pairs with Jacket, so too does Bellaphant. They're the ones I remember insisting a venge claim must be prime and not get voted.

More shade from Furtive on Bella but, unsurprisingly, he still won't vote her.

Bella has been extremely passive in allowing Furtive to scum read her all game and for him to do nothing about it as well. Like, she hasn't pushed him on the read once.

People are thinking about this game in the wrong way. CL is'n't necessarily someone widely townread, just someone who will never get voted because cultists refuse to vote for them.

Do you think Bella is part of the cult?

Yes, they go with Jacket and Korina. I don't think they go with BBT though.

More shade on Bella.

I think it's 2 of Bellaphant/BBT/Korina.

More shade on Bella.

The team is BBT/Jacket/Korina, with Jacket as Cult Leader.

Wait, what? Where did Bella go?

With Enchant having the sole vote of the day Furtive simply couldn't risk having Bella in his pool. I would love an explanation for the sudden exclusion of Bella in his scum team.

I need to re read a few people in iso. Beat/jacket made sense.

Jacket/furtive/??

At this point of the game it should have been obvious to Bella that the team was Jacket/Furtive/BBT but because she isn't actually trying to solve she doesn't realise. It's only when I post my solve that it dawns on her...

I mean, those are my options with you swapped for me.

Enchant is Governor.

Jacket/Nathann/RH9 claimed Vengeful.

Me/BBT/Bella claimed VT.

This means BBT/Bella are confirmed Cult. I need to re-evaluate things.

Why is Bella being Cult such a shock to Furtive here? He has literally been scum reading Bella all game long and he STILL wants to push Jacket over her. No reevaluation happened at all.

Nope.

You have shaded one Cult (CL) all game without pushing them (Bella)

You have shaded another Cult (Prime) all game and have pushed and pushed and pushed on them.

There is a huge difference in the way you treat the two slots.

Can you talk about how Bella magically dropped from your scum team when Enchant had the deciding vote?

But I was in both your scum teams, silly.

Why did Bella get removed from it?

Umm, Furtive. You know myself and Bella are Cult, right? Why are you so concerned about my push on her?

Like, why does it bother you in anyway whatsoever? You haven't tried to understand my push, you haven't even considered Bella as CL from today. You have just started defending her. Why?

Oh, I am?

Why is it you haven't even considered CL Bella? Despite sussing her all game long?

Why did Bella get removed from your scum team on the day Enchant had the deciding vote?

Noticeably, when Bella hit 4 votes and was tied with Cat on D1 the people voting her were; Cat, Korina, Beat and Enchant.

Despite sussing Bella, Furtive was nowhere to be seen... Except for the counter wagon to Bella! He was voting Cat, forming a CW to a slot he had been sussing... Make sense?

Outside of vengeful claims I think Korina/Beat look Prime and Bella/Cat/Titus for Leader.

That Bellaphant E-2 from Korina stands out to me as a culty move. I get the feeling Bella isn't CL based on the way some culty people are happy with this vote. I'm now convinced RH9 is a real vengeful, and agree that Cat.Jpeg is a better elimination.

UNVOTE: Nathann

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg

Let's do this!

This is super fishy. The big change in stance on Bella as her wagon is forming.

Bella is CL

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For Nathan

[Nathann]

Thanks, BBT.

Looking at this game purely mathematically, the only possible worlds are:
> Bella as the Cult Leader, Jacket + furtive as Primes (Town!BBT)
> BBT as the Cult Leader, Jacket + furtive as Primes (Town!Bella)
> Jacket as the Cult Leader, BBT + Bella as Primes (Town!furtive)

I don't know what to think otherwise. The fact that Bella's wagon existed on Day 1 with only confirmed Townies touching it, and furtive straight up avoiding look off. But then Jacket did vote Bella on Day 2. But we also know a Prime did vote their Leader at least once in the game.

I'm slightly inclined to vote Bella right now, somewhat because I still wanna believe I read the BBT/Jacket interactions as non S/S correctly, but I'm nowhere near sold on it. RH9, Enchant?

[RH9]

Thanks, BBT.

Looking at this game purely mathematically, the only possible worlds are:
> Bella as the Cult Leader, Jacket + furtive as Primes (Town!BBT)
> BBT as the Cult Leader, Jacket + furtive as Primes (Town!Bella)
> Jacket as the Cult Leader, BBT + Bella as Primes (Town!furtive)

I don't know what to think otherwise. The fact that Bella's wagon existed on Day 1 with only confirmed Townies touching it, and furtive straight up avoiding look off. But then Jacket did vote Bella on Day 2. But we also know a Prime did vote their Leader at least once in the game.

I'm slightly inclined to vote Bella right now, somewhat because I still wanna believe I read the BBT/Jacket interactions as non S/S correctly, but I'm nowhere near sold on it. RH9, Enchant?

I'm still unsure.
Though, BBT's almost completely disproved Bella's case.
I can't be sure because I distinctly remember losing a ELO over getting convinced by good cases and disproving other cases.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Vote count 5.3

Jacket (1)

: furtiveglance

BlueBloodedToffee (1)

: Bellaphant

Bellaphant (1)

: BlueBloodedToffee

Not voting (4)

: Nathann, Jacket, Enchant, RH9

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate

Day ends in: (expired on 2022-07-18 10:05:00)

[Enchant]

I think i vote Bella soon.
If we lose, we lose.

[RH9]

I think i vote Bella soon.
If we lose, we lose.

But that'll only put her on E-2.
Unless she's a Prime and the other Cult hop onto the wagon, then we can't possibly lose with your vote.

[RH9]

I think i vote Bella soon.
If we lose, we lose.

But that'll only put her on E-2.
Unless she's a Prime and the other Cult hop onto the wagon, then we can't possibly lose with only your vote.

EBWOP

[Enchant]

I think i vote Bella soon.
If we lose, we lose.

But that'll only put her on E-2.
Unless she's a Prime and the other Cult hop onto the wagon, then we can't possibly lose with your vote.

...

EXACTLY?

Because one townie voting on prime/townie is lose, because cult will quickhammer.

[RH9]

I see.
You worry that she's a Prime.
I think that I get it now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RH9, if Bella was Prime, we would have lost.

She isn't prime. If she was prime, my vote, plus Bella self-vote plus two two other Cult votes mean we lose.

She cannot be Prime.

[Bellaphant]

Rh9, it's hard because I think bbt did really well - if he didn't have to be scum I'd be struggling to vote him, but knowing what I know some of his actions look very different, if that makes sense?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I refuted your entire case

If you could explain WHY the things you said make me scum, instead of just a narrative of what I did, I'm sure everyone would appreciate that.

[RH9]

RH9, if Bella was Prime, we would have lost.

She isn't prime. If she was prime, my vote, plus Bella self-vote plus two two other Cult votes mean we lose.

She cannot be Prime.

I see.
So Enchant's worry is that she's Town?

Rh9, it's hard because I think bbt did really well - if he didn't have to be scum I'd be struggling to vote him, but knowing what I know some of his actions look very different, if that makes sense?

I think that I get your point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah.

Her point is that she can't case scum!BBT so she'll just say he played well instead

[Enchant]

VOTE: Bella

Alright fuck, if this flips town, then we was terrible, if CL is somehow in vengeful claims, I FUCKING DOOMED US I AM SORRY YOU HEAR ME I AM SORRY!

... Believed? Haha votes goes boom boom i don't give a shit.

[Bellaphant]

You don't even have a case on me, though. You managed to prove that furtive's positioning around stuff was Sus - great, everyone knows he's scum I could write more words about why what you've done is scummy in hindsight but it's not really going to change anyone's minds. You did really well overall in a difficult situation but you don't have a case on me and your insistence that people should just follow your 'obvious" solve is both your only way to win and also really scummy.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Unlucky guys.