Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[MURDERCAT]

The main thing I'm seeing is tonal. In that game it seemed like gave a shit who was elim d1. This game it doesn't really feel like you give a shit.

But I don't think she was ever wagoned on day 1

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think I'm being an asshole or making disparaging comments. I think she has a valid playstyle, it's just one that I feel is anti-town.

Also very rude that you say I'm not playing, shea. Ur bully

you literally multiple times tried to divide the game into "people who are good at mafia and people who are trash" and I really didn't like it. I don't want to get into a big thing about it but I think there were multiple places this game where you had a chance to be nice or say something mean and you chose the latter path. That's what I'm getting at.

You're certainly playing the game more than N_M but that is a very low bar indeed.

I’ve already mentioned Panzer has essentially contributed the same amount of real contribution as NM but has more posts than NM (maybe in different words but w/e). Do you think that assertion is accurate, and do you think Panzer is scum if it is?

[Thestatusquo]

I am not making a claim about whether your play was scummy that game. I am saying that you seemed interested in determining alignment, and those posts are examples of you actually engaging with reads and the game. You have not done that this game.

My argument is not based on meta, my argument is based on your actions in this game and how they have not been interested in finding the scum. You say "I don't try to find scum d1 in my other game too!" and I say fine, I'll take a look and see if I agree, and I don't. I see a major substantive difference in terms of how you are approaching this game and how you are approaching this game in terms of if I think you are trying to find scum or not.

If you really don't try to find scum as a town playstyle I'm not particularly seeing it in that game and perhaps you should consider working on that because the way I solve games is to look at motivations behind posts and weigh the probability. I don't see a ton of town motivation for not being that interested in determining alignment and a ton of scum motivation. Meta can frequently go to hell as far as I'm concerned but in this instance your meta defense doesn't make much sense to me either.

It is however not the basis for my argument. The basis for my argument is your play. In this game. In this thread. And how I would expect a townie to approach the game and how I perceive you as approaching this game.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think I'm being an asshole or making disparaging comments. I think she has a valid playstyle, it's just one that I feel is anti-town.

Also very rude that you say I'm not playing, shea. Ur bully

you literally multiple times tried to divide the game into "people who are good at mafia and people who are trash" and I really didn't like it. I don't want to get into a big thing about it but I think there were multiple places this game where you had a chance to be nice or say something mean and you chose the latter path. That's what I'm getting at.

You're certainly playing the game more than N_M but that is a very low bar indeed.

I’ve already mentioned Panzer has essentially contributed the same amount of real contribution as NM but has more posts than NM (maybe in different words but w/e). Do you think that assertion is accurate, and do you think Panzer is scum if it is?

I don't think its accurate. N_Ms contributions literally boil down to "vote X" "I still want to vote X" "Oh someone made a joke at me? Vote Y instead!"

I think panzers contributions have a lot more meat on them than that.

And even then, as I've already stated I think that is null at best for both of them. Neither panzer or N_M is going to get to LYLO so I'm not too worried about them for day 1, especially because I don't think either of them gives us a lot of information.

[Noraa]

@Shea
So I feel like ur purposefully trying to find my towniness in the finished town game knowing that I was JKer. However, there is none imo which is making me question why ur using something like how much I solve to show if I'm town. I say I didn't solve or try to determine alignment and whatever that game but u insist I did. I did not. Not even compared to this game. I think I made more effort to solve this game than I did that one and I think its very obvious. You keep arguing that its bc of my lack of solving that I'm scum. I've told u my meta proves otherwise and u manage to take some fence sitty asf posts and tell me I'm solving more there. I disagree big time.

My jumping off murder and not voting anyone is my common townplay of not knowing who to SR. I'm scum hunting but I'm not able to find scum this fast. In that finished town game, I "sussed" 4 people and all 4 were vanilla town. I am not confident in my scum hunting abilities and that makes me withhold my vote and withhold reads at times too.

[MURDERCAT]

withhold reads at times too

If you are elimed it is not worth doing this. I know you have given scum reads but it seems like you are suspecting everyone. Who do you think is town?

[Noraa]

Ur case is terrible. I hate that its frustrating me so much but it is. I think I am solving this round and you saying that I solved more in that game is not rubbing me the right way bc I DID NOT. It's clear as day that I was only TRed that game bc I hammered scum day 1.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not trying to find "townieness" I'm trying to find you engaging with the game in a way that makes me think you care about alignment.

In what the fuck way am I fence sitting here?

You jumped off murder specifically because you said that "other people are scummier" so in what world am I supposed to believe that the reason you did it was because "you didn't know who to SR"

You literally said that other people had made you suspicious IN THAT POST. And then refused to tell me who they were or why when I asked.

[Noraa]

withhold reads at times too

If you are elimed it is not worth doing this. I know you have given scum reads but it seems like you are suspecting everyone. Who do you think is town?

I can't seem to form a town block here with half the playstyles being jestery ones that joke around and do nothing else and the other half all sussing the hell out of me. I am a biased player and I am OMGUSy asf when I'm town. SRs on me will affect my reads whether I want it to or not.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm making absolutely zero claims about whether I would have town or scum read you that game. All I've read is pieces of your ISO to find the things that I think have simply not been present in this game, because again I AM NOT MAKING A META ARGUMENT. I am saying that you are not playing towards a town win condition IN THIS GAME.

[Noraa]

I'm not trying to find "townieness" I'm trying to find you engaging with the game in a way that makes me think you care about alignment.

In what the fuck way am I fence sitting here?

You jumped off murder specifically because you said that "other people are scummier" so in what world am I supposed to believe that the reason you did it was because "you didn't know who to SR"

You literally said that other people had made you suspicious IN THAT POST. And then refused to tell me who they were or why when I asked.

I said I was fence sitty in that towngame.
"other people were scummier" = multiple people were scummier and I didn't know which one to choose.
I dont have to specify my reads especially when they weren't fully developed. Why are u pushing me to give an undeveloped, not thought out read literally like 3 days into day 1(at the time that was the amount of time basically)

[MURDERCAT]

I can't seem to form a town block here with half the playstyles being jestery ones that joke around and do nothing else and the other half all sussing the hell out of me. I am a biased player and I am OMGUSy asf when I'm town. SRs on me will affect my reads whether I want it to or not.

Can you give a blank read list then? Call everyone you aren't scum reading null

[Noraa]

Now that I think about it, why were u pressuring me to give a read when my read wasn't fully developed?

there were plenty of people that had contributed less. Why pressure me?

[MURDERCAT]

Why are u pushing me to give an undeveloped, not thought out read literally like 3 days into day 1

Because this is how other people sort you

[Noraa]

I can't seem to form a town block here with half the playstyles being jestery ones that joke around and do nothing else and the other half all sussing the hell out of me. I am a biased player and I am OMGUSy asf when I'm town. SRs on me will affect my reads whether I want it to or not.

Can you give a blank read list then? Call everyone you aren't scum reading null

one sec

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not trying to find "townieness" I'm trying to find you engaging with the game in a way that makes me think you care about alignment.

In what the fuck way am I fence sitting here?

You jumped off murder specifically because you said that "other people are scummier" so in what world am I supposed to believe that the reason you did it was because "you didn't know who to SR"

You literally said that other people had made you suspicious IN THAT POST. And then refused to tell me who they were or why when I asked.

I said I was fence sitty in that towngame.
"other people were scummier" = multiple people were scummier and I didn't know which one to choose.
I dont have to specify my reads especially when they weren't fully developed. Why are u pushing me to give an undeveloped, not thought out read literally like 3 days into day 1(at the time that was the amount of time basically)

I would find this defense a lot more reasonable if you hadn't literally given a half baked fluffy full game read list like literally the first time the thread was over.

I apologize about the fence sitty thing I misread what you said and thought you were calling me that.

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like Pooky has been gone for 3 days, but it's only been a few hours.

I am off for a while, but I'm interested to see his catchup

[Thestatusquo]

And now for a summary:

TR:
Kazu
OutWorldER
Bulge
Guesser

Null:
Blitzo
Pooky
Gamma
Not mafia
Shea

SR:
Murder
Duppin

you sure seem capable of giving undeveloped reads here early in the game when theres no consequences or weight to things you're saying.

Why does this go away as soon as there's actual content to analyze?

[Noraa]

Full on reads take me so long. Shea ur just tunneling town.

I'm interested in looking more into you but rn I'm a lil annoyed of this game so imma visit my other threads. If ur town, calm the tunneling down and come up with a block of questions that u want answered from me. If its already been answered, tell me what u didn't like about the answer dont just ask again. Some things I just won't agree with u on. No point in asking those questions. They are subjective anyways and will get us nowhere.

Murder will get his read list later when I come back to this thread.

[Thestatusquo]

Name 2 or 3 things you've done this game that you feel come from a town mindset.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

skimmed the thread and I'm thinking MC-scum Noraa-town.

feels like MC is trying to use Noraa to hide himself.

These posts ping me:

1108 - I don't get this mindset - shouldn't whether noraa is town or scum be the primary motivation for voting here?
1109 - Feels like he is trying to use a Noraa-Green Flip to Clean Himself
1138 - Why wouldn't he do something about it then?
1149 - The tone of this post feels too certain for what he's quoting - feels like TMI-scum
1183 - I don't understand this - feels like he's mirroring off her self-sacrificial tone. Not really a town mindset here.
Like if MC-Town really townreads Noraa he should be convincing her that ___ is a better vote and he's town, not trying to egg her into making a case on him because what purpose would that serve? It feels very performative.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'll do a full reread later when I have time, feel like I might be too tunneled onto MC right now and I need to look at him from another angle.

[MURDERCAT]

Like if MC-Town really townreads Noraa he should be convincing her that ___ is a better vote and he's town, not trying to egg her into making a case on him because what purpose would that serve? It feels very performative.

Not gonna click the links because I'm on my phone so I'll look at this again later. But the goal is to try to get her to do town things, I don't really think anyone will follow her case and vote me as a result

[Noraa]

Name 2 or 3 things you've done this game that you feel come from a town mindset.

I think that my asking people to solve me and sticking to my own opinions are all huge town tells. Asking people to solve me is generally a town tell for me. I'll admit, I think I've done it a lil in scum games but I do it much much more as town. Sticking to my own opinions is 100% a town tell for me. Im an indecisive person in general and as scum I can definitely use that to my advantage and flip flop without much trouble.

[Noraa]

Going with the flow and blending into the crowd of townies is not hard for me whether or not you believe it.