Duplicitous Mafia [Postgame]

[DragonEater70]

fun fact dragoneater would have been at e-1 in a regular game here.

@dragoneater do u have any reasons for suspecting ranger that go beyond the fact they are voting you?

Nah

[DragonEater70]

I also don't really like Dragon's recent posts. Seems a little bit defensive. It's not the wolfiest thing in the world, but he definitely flips to the wolfier side of my read list.

It's not a defense. I'm literally subconsciously using the exact same approach I'd be using as scum. But as you will see if you end up flipping me, I'm town. It's really awkward to me because I usually choose to use this approach consciously when I'm scum and here I'm very unconsciously using it and I don't know how to stop. So it's more commenting about something I find weird in my own behavior than a defense. When I manage to remember how to play town, I'll let you know (and you'll probably start townreading me at that point since I'll stop posting from a scum mindset).

This post seems very artificially constructed to seem contrite.

That was definitely NOT contrite, goddamnit. Like, scumread me if you want but don't insert emotions that aren't there into my posts.

But why is AniX scum? I'm only voting AniX because the alternative is voting myself atp and I don't want to vote myself.

oh well I'll do the right thing

UNVOTE: AniX

Like...

openly admitting to voting someone you don't actually wolfread in order to save yourself is sus af

.The unvote afterwards feels like Dragon either realized how bad the vote looked or had a guilty conscience (I've never seen someone claim they're "doing the right thing" in a game dedicated to murdering people).

No it's not. Openly admitting to doing antitown bad evil things is not sus as fuck. Denying doing it while still doing it is sus as fuck.

The thing with Ranger is I'd expect her to do everything she's done so far as town, but also I feel like she's doing what I'd expect her to do too well, so maybe she's scum just perfectly imitating her town play style? I feel like as town she's probably a bit more, um... fast and loose?

Also, I'm just annoyed at Ranger not explaining her scumread of me at all (so basically, OMGUS, except ranger can you PLEASE explain the reasoning behind the scumread???)

VOTE: ranger

Again, voting someone who he doesn't actually wolfread. And in general, wolves tend to be more sensitive to people wolfreading them because they feel like they're more transparent than they actually are.

Have you considered the option that this day phase has had a very clear trajectory of people sussing and voting me (I would be at E-1 as DkKoba has just noted), and that as an experienced town player who is also hyper self-aware when playing town and currently admits to being in his scum meta, I would be aware of this? No, you probably haven't considered that option because most town players aren't hyper self-aware and aren't in their scum meta when they play town. *raises arms in the air and drops them on the table in desperation*. Ah, whatever. Just vote me.

The meta-clearing thing, idk about. NAI for me.

Which meta-clearing thing?

[DragonEater70]

Okay but seriously speaking

I dislike slow and "chill" / low-intensity game states where people don't make wallposts / detailed cases / dynamic votes (in this game, voting someone other than me/korina/anix/flower probably), because I just can't generate any sort of reads in this gamestate and then I get stuck defending myself instead of pushing who I think is scum because I don't even know who is scum.

So it would be kinda nice if all of you posted some spicy reads and pushed them and talked about them in detail (no, "dragon scummy vibe" and "hypershock very town" don't count) and then I'd get an opportunity to actually THINK about your posts and ANALYZE them and PROVE that I have a THOUGHT PROCESS which happens to come from a TOWN mindset. But I can't prove it right now because I've got nothing to think about or analyze right now because all of your posts are just "dragon scummy vibe, anix scummy vibe maybe, korina scummy, hypeeshock towny".

[KayJayQueue]

Okay but seriously speaking

I dislike slow and "chill" / low-intensity game states where people don't make wallposts / detailed cases / dynamic votes (in this game, voting someone other than me/korina/anix/flower probably), because I just can't generate any sort of reads in this gamestate and then I get stuck defending myself instead of pushing who I think is scum because I don't even know who is scum.

So it would be kinda nice if all of you posted some spicy reads and pushed them and talked about them in detail (no, "dragon scummy vibe" and "hypershock very town" don't count) and then I'd get an opportunity to actually THINK about your posts and ANALYZE them and PROVE that I have a THOUGHT PROCESS which happens to come from a TOWN mindset. But I can't prove it right now because I've got nothing to think about or analyze right now because all of your posts are just "dragon scummy vibe, anix scummy vibe maybe, korina scummy, hypeeshock towny".

If you could describe this post, would it fall under your scum meta or town meta?

[DragonEater70]

I'm gonna post the little reada I do have:
I'm currently townreading Fenrir for pretty bad reasons but if I drop the townread then I'll be back to having no reads so that suck. I townread him because of the mindmeld on Enchant being town and because I feel like he's genuinely trying to solve (but I typed and deleted this sentence several times because honestly Idk if it's actually genuine or just fake genuine).

I townread Hypershock not because "oh look, cute newbie! Must be town" but because I actually fond that he has provided the most detailed thought process out of all red players so far, and I actually find his thought process to be believable (like I do think he's actually thinking those thoughts).

And I do genuinely think that Ranger has higher than random chance of being scum, because I think that while town Ranger is LIKELY to do what Ranger is doing this game, scum Ranger is MORE LIKELY to do it (so if town!Ranger would do it 70% of the time, scum!Ranger would do it 80% of the time, if that makes sense). And I pretty heavily disagree with Fenrir's assertion that how much her reads make sense is a baseline of how to read her - I think understabding the agebda or lack thereof behind those reads is much more key.

[DragonEater70]

Reads*
Find* (not fond)

[DragonEater70]

Okay but seriously speaking

I dislike slow and "chill" / low-intensity game states where people don't make wallposts / detailed cases / dynamic votes (in this game, voting someone other than me/korina/anix/flower probably), because I just can't generate any sort of reads in this gamestate and then I get stuck defending myself instead of pushing who I think is scum because I don't even know who is scum.

So it would be kinda nice if all of you posted some spicy reads and pushed them and talked about them in detail (no, "dragon scummy vibe" and "hypershock very town" don't count) and then I'd get an opportunity to actually THINK about your posts and ANALYZE them and PROVE that I have a THOUGHT PROCESS which happens to come from a TOWN mindset. But I can't prove it right now because I've got nothing to think about or analyze right now because all of your posts are just "dragon scummy vibe, anix scummy vibe maybe, korina scummy, hypeeshock towny".

If you could describe this post, would it fall under your scum meta or town meta?

Neither.

[DragonEater70]

I have never made a post of this type as far as I'm aware.

[KayJayQueue]

I have never made a post of this type as far as I'm aware.

Maybe not exactly but the tone is really resonant imo. I’ll consider this while also being very aware that I made a point to express my opinion on your self-meta earlier today so you could be pivoting on purpose.

[StraightFlush]

Hey folks how's it going, what's the word on the street

[DragonEater70]

I have never made a post of this type as far as I'm aware.

Maybe not exactly but the tone is really resonant imo. I’ll consider this while also being very aware that I made a point to express my opinion on your self-meta earlier today so you could be pivoting on purpose.

By resonant, do you mean it reminds me of another post I've made? Or...?

[DragonEater70]

Reminds you*

[DragonEater70]

I need sleep probably

[DragonEater70]

Going to sleep at 1am, five nights in a row is actually really not good is it

[Korina]

Okay but seriously speaking

I dislike slow and "chill" / low-intensity game states where people don't make wallposts / detailed cases / dynamic votes (in this game, voting someone other than me/korina/anix/flower probably), because I just can't generate any sort of reads in this gamestate and then I get stuck defending myself instead of pushing who I think is scum because I don't even know who is scum.

So it would be kinda nice if all of you posted some spicy reads and pushed them and talked about them in detail (no, "dragon scummy vibe" and "hypershock very town" don't count) and then I'd get an opportunity to actually THINK about your posts and ANALYZE them and PROVE that I have a THOUGHT PROCESS which happens to come from a TOWN mindset. But I can't prove it right now because I've got nothing to think about or analyze right now because all of your posts are just "dragon scummy vibe, anix scummy vibe maybe, korina scummy, hypeeshock towny".

you wont get any walls out of us because that's how we burnt ourselves out of mafia last time. willing to go into depth on these, probably won't be the most coherent thoughts since i'm about to take the weed pen and start smoking so hard.

{korina, flower} - town - {de70}
{hem, gyp} - town ig - {hyper, dragons}
{enchant, itf} - null - {straightflush, ranger, kjq}
{luka} - scum ig - {anix}
{smiley} - scum - {randy}

{drew} - drew/koba¹ - {Koba}

¹this is its own category because while i can provide a read and reasons on those players, (drew probably town, koba probably town tbh), these are the two players i have the biggest issues reading d1 and as such, i just ignore their posting today and will provide a read tomorrow.

pre-edit: i lied actually. i'm like 60% confident in my read that drew is town, but i still would rather have tomorrow to actually read and sort drew. worst case, the tpr can check drew and we can resolve this issue entirely.

[Korina]

dont ask us for our reads on red either - they're all vibes based. randy and anix do not pass the vibe check.

[KayJayQueue]

UNVOTE:

[AniX]

AniX is red scum. Policy lim is a bad reason to wanna kill someone.

How, exactly, would I benefit from policy-limming someone whose death doesn't impact my win condition? Red Scum BENEFITS from you trying to get rid of red players and hammering random red people.

There are 48 pages, and if you have nothing else to go off for wanting to kill me than something I said at the start of the game, you are just scum. Find a better reason, or lie better, because I can’t tell which one you failed at.

Pedit: I will later when I’m not at work

You said this 2 hours ago:

We gotta kill someone from both games and I have been very consistent in my desire to end the red game first. Smiley is getting my vote after red game hammer.

[Korina]

a better question anix: how would it

hurt

you? i have a tinfoil theory, but i will not share it. just know, if you know what i think you know, i'm aware. that's why i want you dead. if someone gets to e-1, that requires the majority of players to have decided that, and even then the day still doesn't end.

the second two things you quoted aren't inconsistent, and if they somehow are, please point them out because i don't see it.

[DragonEater70]

{korina, flower} - town - {de70}

the "unpopular townies" gang, lol

[AniX]

It is not trying to kill you off something you said 48 pages ago, it is trying to kill you for a continually stated philosophy.

As for how it would hurt me, I am not parsing what you are trying to ask. How would it hurt me if I was scum to go after you? I don't know, I haven't analyzed the meta for how to pay this game as Scum. It would certainly be an opportunity cost, if nothing else.

[DragonEater70]

They're asking how would it hurt you that they hammer any red that gets to E-1.

[DragonEater70]

Which tbh unless the blue team collectively decides to bully the red team by having like, 7 blue players voting for the same red player who is also being voted by 2 red players, it would be impossible for them to hammer someone who the read team doesn't wan't hammered.

[DragonEater70]

I think what Korina is

really

saying is that they don't care enough about the red game and will therefore sheep the red players in the red game. Why am I their defense attorney? Because I'm part of the underdog townies gang with them!

[AniX]

At this point it isn't even the hammering, it is the general statement their focus is finishing the Red Game first. An eagerness to involve themselves in Red Game hurts Red Town, however subjectively minimally one wants to argue it is. I still like Flower first, because Blue Mafia is threat to all Towns in early game, and if another Scum suspect starts rising, I'd be fine limming then too. But with no heat on the actual Scum and Blue independently reaching the conclusion they don't like Korina, Red benefits from selecting Korina as their blue pick of the day.

I think what Korina is

really

saying is that they don't care enough about the red game and will therefore sheep the red players in the red game. Why am I their defense attorney? Because I'm part of the underdog townies gang with them!

"I don't care about red game so I am going to tamper with red game to get it done faster" is caring more about red game than simply ignoring it or treating it as an ordinary extension of the town as most others are doing.