Newbie 694 (over)

[urielzyx]

Actually, when u think about it, he only has 6 posts in the thread,

1st post - confirmation.
2nd post - we asked where everybody lives and he says florida.
3rd - vote Xtoxm(RV).
4th - mentions he loves RV.

After that he disappears for a long time, until we start talking about lurkers, then he jumps out with a wierd question, and doesn't contribute anything.

In addition, he did not cancel his RV yet.

Vote: infamousace2

[Xtoxm]

Now that the game has kicked off, i'd like to see him come into the game more, there are a couple things to comment on, rather than just vote him. If it continues in this fashion though, I shall feel the need to vote him.

[Elennaro]

I never said you should lynch lurkers without giving them a chance to defend themselves. And anyway, the only town power role who should really try to remain hidden is the doctor, and he could play active townie just as well, it should be really easy for him, because he has no knowledge the town does not have (unless he prevents a kill, and even then it doesn't mean anything in games with a vig). Lurking should not be a good way to keep a low profile. But, of course I'd rather lynch a probable mafia than a lurker.

What's wrong with lynching liars, by the way? I mean, of course exceptions must be possible, but what is wrong with it in general?

[Xtoxm]

No, all town power's want to stay hidden on Day One, really. There are a couple of exceptions, but certainly not in this game.

[Elennaro]

Staying hidden and lurking are not synonymous.

[urielzyx]

I never said you should lynch lurkers without giving them a chance to defend themselves. And anyway, the only town power role who should really try to remain hidden is the doctor, and he could play active townie just as well, it should be really easy for him, because he has no knowledge the town does not have (unless he prevents a kill, and even then it doesn't mean anything in games with a vig). Lurking should not be a good way to keep a low profile. But, of course I'd rather lynch a probable mafia than a lurker.

What's wrong with lynching liars, by the way? I mean, of course exceptions must be possible, but what is wrong with it in general?

Lets say there i'm a watcher, ok?
Now, I know u targeted the guy that died last night, ok?
So I claim cop and say that I have a guilty on u, and ask u to claim.
if u claim miller, then I'll know your scum because miller doesn't target, if u say I can't be cop because ur not scum(ur vig or cop or something), then I'll know u may be telling the truth.

now, after that happens, if u claim miller, and I claim watcher and tell everyone that I just wanted to check if u r scum or vig.

after that happens, a guy with a Lync all Liars policy would lynch me next day(this day lynch the scum) just because I lied...

get it?

[infamousace2]

I check on the message board every few hours...

but I feel until we no lynch...or until someone is lynched...there isn't much to talk about

[infamousace2]

And this is my first game on this website, which is why I asked the question how long day takes.

In another game I'm in...its 48 hours, and the person with the most votes is lynched if there isn't a majority

[Xtoxm]

Inf, what do you think Mafia is about, and why did you sign up for this game? - This is a genuine question.

[GIEFF]

Lets say there i'm a watcher, ok?
Now, I know u targeted the guy that died last night, ok?
So I claim cop and say that I have a guilty on u, and ask u to claim.
if u claim miller, then I'll know your scum because miller doesn't target, if u say I can't be cop because ur not scum(ur vig or cop or something), then I'll know u may be telling the truth.

now, after that happens, if u claim miller, and I claim watcher and tell everyone that I just wanted to check if u r scum or vig.

after that happens, a guy with a Lync all Liars policy would lynch me next day(this day lynch the scum) just because I lied...

get it?

There is no watcher in this setup. Let's try to keep the theoretical discussions relevant to the game ahead of us. I don't see where a similar incentive to lie would happen in this game; a townie claiming a power role risks outing that power role, and should not be done. Power roles should of course claim vanilla town if pressed, but this is not really a lie so much as sound strategy, and there isn't really any way for this "lie" to be caught in the setup we are using.

So uri, do you agree that in the current setup someone caught in a lie is very likely to be scum?


Regarding the lurker-lynching: I do agree that it is better than a completely random lynch, but hopefully we can find a better lynch by getting a mafia member to slip up.

[Xtoxm]

He was making a point, it's fair enough.

But yes - In this setup VT's shouldn't claim power's at all, imo.

Power's only want to give up their role if absolutley necesary to prevent their lynch, with the expection of a cop with a guilty, who would claim it right away.

[Xtoxm]

That and massclaim, ofcourse. Usually done around lylo.

[urielzyx]

Lets say there i'm a watcher, ok?
Now, I know u targeted the guy that died last night, ok?
So I claim cop and say that I have a guilty on u, and ask u to claim.
if u claim miller, then I'll know your scum because miller doesn't target, if u say I can't be cop because ur not scum(ur vig or cop or something), then I'll know u may be telling the truth.

now, after that happens, if u claim miller, and I claim watcher and tell everyone that I just wanted to check if u r scum or vig.

after that happens, a guy with a Lync all Liars policy would lynch me next day(this day lynch the scum) just because I lied...

get it?

There is no watcher in this setup. Let's try to keep the theoretical discussions relevant to the game ahead of us. I don't see where a similar incentive to lie would happen in this game; a townie claiming a power role risks outing that power role, and should not be done. Power roles should of course claim vanilla town if pressed, but this is not really a lie so much as sound strategy, and there isn't really any way for this "lie" to be caught in the setup we are using.

So uri, do you agree that in the current setup someone caught in a lie is very likely to be scum?


Regarding the lurker-lynching: I do agree that it is better than a completely random lynch, but hopefully we can find a better lynch by getting a mafia member to slip up.

yes, I do agree with ur opinion about this specific setup, but I Elennaro didn't ask y we shouldn't lynch liars, only whats the problem with doing it...

in general I think u should lynch a liar unless his lie was a real strategical step...

[GIEFF]

I thought the below might be useful - it is a history of votes and FoS's with hyperlinks to the relevant posts. I can continue to do this throughout the thread if you find it helpful.

infamousace2

FoS: ClockworkRuse Post 22
Vote: Xtoxm Post 32

hambargarz

vote: Xtoxm Post 26
Unvote, Vote: militant Post 95
FOS: ClockworkRuse Post 110

militant

Vote: GIEFF Post 28

urielzyx

VOTE: Elannaro Post 30
Unvote Post 57
Vote: infamousace2 Post 121

RealityFan

Vote: Gieff Post 43

ClockworkRuse

Vote: ClockworkRuse Post 82
Unvote, Vote hambargarz Post 96

Xtoxm

Vote Militant Post 88




infamous, militant, and RealityFan all still have their random votes "on;" infamous for Xtxom, and the other two for me. Is it customary to simply unvote after the random voting stage has passed, or to leave the vote on the random target until a better target presents itself?

And infamous, I am curious to hear your answer to Xtoxm's question in #129.

[hambargarz]

I check on the message board every few hours...

but I feel until we no lynch...or until someone is lynched...there isn't much to talk about

Does this mean you won't contribute until someone is lynched? how are we going to lynch scum without any discussion?

[urielzyx]

I thought the below might be useful - it is a history of votes and FoS's with hyperlinks to the relevant posts. I can continue to do this throughout the thread if you find it helpful.

infamousace2

FoS: ClockworkRuse Post 22
Vote: Xtoxm Post 32

hambargarz

vote: Xtoxm Post 26
Unvote, Vote: militant Post 95
FOS: ClockworkRuse Post 110

militant

Vote: GIEFF Post 28

urielzyx

VOTE: Elannaro Post 30
Unvote Post 57
Vote: infamousace2 Post 121

RealityFan

Vote: Gieff Post 43

ClockworkRuse

Vote: ClockworkRuse Post 82
Unvote, Vote hambargarz Post 96

Xtoxm

Vote Militant Post 88




infamous, militant, and RealityFan all still have their random votes "on;" infamous for Xtxom, and the other two for me. Is it customary to simply unvote after the random voting stage has passed, or to leave the vote on the random target until a better target presents itself?

And infamous, I am curious to hear your answer to Xtoxm's question in #129.

thx, it has been very enlightning, if we have something like that every few pages(in addition to the mods vote count), it will be easyer to follow who is doing what...

[infamousace2]

How much info can you really get on the first day before the first lynch?

Yea...we can discuss all day...people will claim whatever...and we still won't lynch anyone...but just for the sake of speeding up the game...I'll unvote...lol

Unvote: Xtoxm

[infamousace2]

Inf, what do you think Mafia is about, and why did you sign up for this game? - This is a genuine question.

From my general understanding...Mafia is a party game between 2 sides...a town and a mafia. The mafia knows each other and discuss at night who they want to kill while a majority during the day gets someone lynched. The object of the game is for the town to eliminate all Mafia to win and for the Mafia to win...it has to eliminate all town.

And like I said...this is my first game on this website, as I played on a different one which had different rules...

[GIEFF]

How much info can you really get on the first day before the first lynch?

Yea...we can discuss all day...people will claim whatever...and we still won't lynch anyone...but just for the sake of speeding up the game...I'll unvote...lol

Unvote: Xtoxm

I see a conflict here. You claim that you are unvoting Xtoxm to "speed the game up," but that doesn't make any sense. How does UN-voting speed up the game?

Personally, I think you are unvoting Xtoxm because your random vote is still on him, and the random voting stage appears to be over. I think that this is a perfectly legitimate reason to remove a vote, so why not just tell us that is the case instead of claiming it's only to "speed up the game?"

Inf, what do you think Mafia is about, and why did you sign up for this game? - This is a genuine question.

I think a few of us are interested in your response to this question.

[urielzyx]

How much info can you really get on the first day before the first lynch?

Yea...we can discuss all day...people will claim whatever...and we still won't lynch anyone...but just for the sake of speeding up the game...I'll unvote...lol

Unvote: Xtoxm

I see a conflict here. You claim that you are unvoting Xtoxm to "speed the game up," but that doesn't make any sense. How does UN-voting speed up the game?

Personally, I think you are unvoting Xtoxm because your random vote is still on him, and the random voting stage appears to be over. I think that this is a perfectly legitimate reason to remove a vote, so why not just tell us that is the case instead of claiming it's only to "speed up the game?"

Inf, what do you think Mafia is about, and why did you sign up for this game? - This is a genuine question.

I think a few of us are interested in your response to this question.

he answered a moment later, also, I do not think he removed the vote because RV is over, otherwise he would have said so, I think when we specified his RV still being on this deep in, he thought(as do I), that it might look a little scummy...

[hambargarz]

How much info can you really get on the first day before the first lynch?

Longer discussion is always helpful. In addition to providing reads on everyone, it also leaves a posting history or paper trail that becomes very valuable later on in the game.

[infamousace2]

I know that, but like I said...this is my 2nd game...and I honestly don't know how much info you can get on the first day.

Mafia knows who town is...but if they start the lynch wagon...then town knows who mafia is.

But Town isn't smart enough to realize it, because they will just be lynching someone and be like OOPS...hey...it was the first person...it doesn't matter...

[Elennaro]

I never said you should lynch lurkers without giving them a chance to defend themselves. And anyway, the only town power role who should really try to remain hidden is the doctor, and he could play active townie just as well, it should be really easy for him, because he has no knowledge the town does not have (unless he prevents a kill, and even then it doesn't mean anything in games with a vig). Lurking should not be a good way to keep a low profile. But, of course I'd rather lynch a probable mafia than a lurker.

What's wrong with lynching liars, by the way? I mean, of course exceptions must be possible, but what is wrong with it in general?

Lets say there i'm a watcher, ok?
Now, I know u targeted the guy that died last night, ok?
So I claim cop and say that I have a guilty on u, and ask u to claim.
if u claim miller, then I'll know your scum because miller doesn't target, if u say I can't be cop because ur not scum(ur vig or cop or something), then I'll know u may be telling the truth.

now, after that happens, if u claim miller, and I claim watcher and tell everyone that I just wanted to check if u r scum or vig.

after that happens, a guy with a Lync all Liars policy would lynch me next day(this day lynch the scum) just because I lied...

get it?

Yes, but I wasn't suggesting to make the policy unconditional.

[ClockworkRuse]

I never said you should lynch lurkers without giving them a chance to defend themselves. And anyway, the only town power role who should really try to remain hidden is the doctor, and he could play active townie just as well, it should be really easy for him, because he has no knowledge the town does not have (unless he prevents a kill, and even then it doesn't mean anything in games with a vig). Lurking should not be a good way to keep a low profile. But, of course I'd rather lynch a probable mafia than a lurker.

What's wrong with lynching liars, by the way? I mean, of course exceptions must be possible, but what is wrong with it in general?

Lets say there i'm a watcher, ok?
Now, I know u targeted the guy that died last night, ok?
So I claim cop and say that I have a guilty on u, and ask u to claim.
if u claim miller, then I'll know your scum because miller doesn't target, if u say I can't be cop because ur not scum(ur vig or cop or something), then I'll know u may be telling the truth.

now, after that happens, if u claim miller, and I claim watcher and tell everyone that I just wanted to check if u r scum or vig.

after that happens, a guy with a Lync all Liars policy would lynch me next day(this day lynch the scum) just because I lied...

get it?

It isn't always this black and white, keep that in mind. Lying as town comes with consequences.

Alright, I think most people have answered my question about the self-vote. Personally, I agree with all of you but I know a lot of players who wouldn't. If the time came when someone disagreed with you on that point, what would you do?

[Elennaro]

No idea. Listen to their logic and offer my own, I guess.
How much time are lurking players generally given before asking for a prod?

MOD EDIT:

I'm planning on giving 5 days. In fact, I'm prodding RealityFan right now.