Mini 65: FOX mafia - Finished

[Medicated Lain]

Maybe there actually is a Family Guy mafia, 3-4 members, two night kills, maybe a godfather and two others, the two members have one choice, and the godfather has one choice, two Family Guy members are dead now, and there was only one killing last night, could make sense.

[MeMe]

I'm from Family Guy, and I'm not mafia.

I feel completely at a loss in this game, though. Without any indicators post mortem, I can't see a way to decipher who's what. We're still questioning blackhawk's motivation, though I think his posts shouted pure scum. This is the first time I've felt like quitting a game out of sheer frustration. We don't even know whether we're in a lynch or lose situation or if we're about to win the whole damn thing.

[CaptainBlicero]

Yeah, I'm hoping that there's a damn good reason for this "no alignments" revealed rule, because it makes every Day seem like Day One. It's hard to come with logic and analysis when we have no idea of who is getting killed.

After reading through the thread, I'm going to

vote: genku

. He seems to waffle and equivocate in every post he makes. Here are some examples:

It just doesn't sit well with me.. I'm not saying it makes you scum, and I'm not saying I'm sure of it at all because I'm not... that's why it was a FOS instead of a vote.

Hmm, I guess I wouldn't mind voting blackhawk.. he always seems to act very weird.. when he's scum. I don't think we should hurry and lynch him but maybe vote him until he can explain his actions.

Hmm... hmm.. hm... do I believe his claim. Well, I believe his claim is possible. I still think even if he is Quagmire, he could still be a baddie... and there is also a chance that he's lying about that.. the question is how big is the chance and is it worth a lynch?

Maybe genku is just a very timid person, but it seems to me as if he's being very cautious about what he says so as to avoid suspicion. But, I would definitely like to hear a little more from Sugar.

[genku]

I'm usually like that when it's close to a lynch, like I'll ask before putting the 6th vote on people and such. I only freak out when people vote me so... DIE EVIL SCUM!

[genku]

And reading over most of your past posts, all YOU seem to ever say is "hmm, this character could be mafia or a good guy. I wonder which one" in the few posts you make.

[Prizm]

CaptainBlicero: We've all been equivocating and somewhat unsure, because of the blind nature of the game. As such, I can't really blame genku for not posting a strong position.

[genku]

Yeah, when I vote someone, I want to be as sure as possible since when he's dead, we still won't know if he's a good guy or a bad guy.

[Stewie]

vote count:

sugar 2 (meme, coolbot)
genku 1 (captain blincero)

mmm... maybe I tried to hard to make the game interesting, that it became frustrating. I can change that rule, and reveal all the roles dead so far if you want me to. so just underlined, at the end of your next post write "yes" if you want me to reveal or "no" if you don't want me too.

[MeMe]

Stewie, you can just ignore my rants, they're not meant to target you as a mod -- I just tend to post whatever I happen to be thinking at any given time. Earlier today it was "I'm confused...I hate being confused...aarrrrggghhh!" Basically, I don't want the game ruined if it's integral that the alignments are kept hidden. But, if it won't wreck the game,

yes

[MeMe]

Another thing, though...some may have based their posting strategy on the assurance that their alliance wouldn't be revealed upon death -- is it going to be fair to

them

if alliances begin to be revealed? Is there any other way to do this? Like telling us how many innocents are dead right now? And then tomorrow morning telling us what the count is? That way if, for example, it's 3 innocents and 1 scum dead atm -- and tomorrow it's 4 innocents and 2 scum dead, we won't be sure which of the two new dead guys is the bad one...but we have something more to work with.

[Stewie]

what about you pm me your vote, and if I get everyone to vote yes, I'll reveal everything about dead people, if I get half of them, i'll reveal how many of them where town.

And it's not just you, everyone seems frustrated.

[Sugar]

I don't know whether blackhawk was pro-or anti-town. Only the mafia would know that for sure. Yesterday he panicked and role-claimed before he had to... I'd think that scum would do everything they could to keep from having to lie about a claim. He had no problem naming a character, and then the role's mechanics. I believe I was the first to vote him, randomly, but then I didn't agree with the bandwagon which quickly formed because of a "random" vote he placed, so I switched my vote to somebody who looked scummier. And because blackhawk's role just seems like a pro-town one to me, CoolBot's again looking suspicious, especially because he put the final vote on.

Vote: CoolBot

[Prizm]

Sugar: Actually, I put the lynching vote on blackhawk, although I thought it was still one away.

I reread most of the thread, and I've changed my mind on blackhawk's innocence. I think he was scum, for the reasons Sugar mentioned.

That said, I think we have to be very careful about lynching ANYONE. We've had two killed who were, in all probability, our cop and our backup cop, so we're not only blind, but we've lost our walking sticks.

[genku]

Heh, I find it pretty odd that people would post out in the open about voting yes or no. Voting yes for everyone to see is just like saying "Really, I'm not guilty.. believe me." while you go off and vote no through a PM.. it just seems kind of stupid to me for some reason or another.

[genku]

what about you pm me your vote, and if I get everyone to vote yes, I'll reveal everything about dead people, if I get half of them, i'll reveal how many of them where town.

And it's not just you, everyone seems frustrated.

Hmm, and I really don't think this would work because all non-mafia guys would vote yes, the mafia would have to be insane to not vote no.. so it'd be impossible for everyone to say yes.. and if it was a majority, town would win no matter what anyway so you mine as well just start revealing roles upon death not because of a vote or anything because that wouldn't really work.

[CoolBot]

I don't think Stewie should reveal the names, either. That's the way we started the game, and I think it would be unfair to those who are basing their statergy on the alignments not being revealed. All the RL games of mafia I've played have been like this. The fact is, at least five people were sure enough about blackhawks scumminess that they were willing to lynch. What has changed over night that we're not sure anymore?

For my part, it looks like BH was posting in a scummy way, thus I looked at people trying to defend him. Sugar fits that criterion; thus, I voted him. I don't think is as big a handicap as some are making it out to be.

[CaptainBlicero]

unvote: genku

vote: CoolBot

That was the most ridiculous "YES I'M SCUM" post I have ever seen in any mafia game.

However, if we have a vigilante in this game, I would highly recommend genku as a good night choice.

[genku]

Please explain to me why. C'mon, give a reason. Try to make one up.

[MeMe]

I don't think is as big a handicap as some are making it out to be.

Well, you're wrong.

See, we're basing our actions today on an unproven assumption from yesterday. Yeah, I agree that blackhawk looked scummy and am voting Sugar right along with you because of it -- but this strategy hinges on blackhawk's guilt and we still

don't know for sure that he was guilty

. What if he just screwed up? Are you going to tell me you've never been

sure

of someone's guilt only to be absolutely surprised when their role says "doctor" or "townie" when they die?

I'm keeping my vote on Sugar because she's my best guess, but CoolBot's last post makes me wonder if he's just trying to make us feel secure when we're anything but.

[genku]

Oh, FOS: CaptainBlicero

Coolbot was saying lets keep this game fun, if telling roles upon death makes a game unfun.. it's a bad idea. We are supposed to be figuring out the roles ourselves.. that's the point of the game and to be honest, I think the most likely answer to a character's role is probably the right one. I am quite sure that Ray's brother was a cop, etc. The point of the game is to have fun, not to win at the price of fun.

[MeMe]

Am I the only one who considers being in a state of constant confusion "no fun"?

And how the heck do

you

know what 'Bot meant, genku? He didn't mention "fun" in his post...he mentioned "fair" (the same thing I mentioned in my earlier post about why it might be a bad idea for Stewie to change the rules mid-game).

[MeMe]

The point of the game is to have fun, not to win at the price of fun.

I'm in total disagreement with this statement. The point of

every

game is to win...it's people who don't understand that and don't put forth their best efforts toward victory that make it no fun.

everybody playing hard = a very fun game

[CoolBot]

I'm scum because I don't want to change rules in mid-game? That's one of the worst arguements I've heard.

Point of fact, MeMe, I do think this way of playing is fun. At least in my RL games, they have been. True, it's much more of a game judging other peoples reactions game than a game of analysis of voting patterns. This hurts the mafia, as well, as they will never know if the cops and docs are gone.

I do not want to spend the entire day discussing this and kinda wish Stewie didn't bring it up. As long as we argue this, we're taking all pressure off the mafia.

So, everyone knows my arguement against Sugar. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[MeMe]

Uh, no CoolBot...please read my posts more carefully and try not to be reactionary. If I thought you were scum for thinking it might be a bad idea to change the rules, I would have to condemn myself because I suggested it before you did.

Another thing, though...some may have based their posting strategy on the assurance that their alliance wouldn't be revealed upon death -- is it going to be fair to

them

if alliances begin to be revealed? Is there any other way to do this? Like telling us how many innocents are dead right now? And then tomorrow morning telling us what the count is? That way if, for example, it's 3 innocents and 1 scum dead atm -- and tomorrow it's 4 innocents and 2 scum dead, we won't be sure which of the two new dead guys is the bad one...but we have something more to work with.

It's

this

portion of your post that makes me question your motives:

I don't think is as big a handicap as some are making it out to be.

Which seems to say: "Playing this way isn't that hard!" Yes, it

is

hard. We're in the dark 'til game end. You're welcome to call it "fun" and claim to like it...but you can't pretend it isn't more difficult.

This game is already hard enough. If our roles' motivations were obvious by their names, I might not have a problem with the non-revelation. But, because of my role, I know it's not that cut-and-dried. When I die, if all you have to go on is my name, you'll assume I'm scum. Compounding the confusion is the fact that I killed Thoth. Let me just drop the bomb now: I'm

Stewie

, townie. But, in order to win, I had to find and kill Lois. I did that night one. Now I'm a vigilante. It is certainly bad for my role to have no post mortem revelation...see where I've been coming from guys?

[genku]

And I am giving my best effots but I think the roles will say if a role is bad or not or at least give some kind of hint.. if there was a Homer in the game, I'd guess he was a good guy. If there is a Mr. Burns in the game, I'd guess he was a bad guy. I don't think guessing who's bad and who's good is rocket science, I think it's just logic.