Open 447: Overturn To Riddler Day 1...

[4nxi3ty]

nah you are making big assumptions about something being obvious to you will automatically be obvious to everyone.

I see nothing to indicate he knew we would be in LyLo. Even if he did, it is quite possible for town to not care or realize that going into LyLo after a pl is a bad idea.

[njoseph]

4nxi3ty, did you read my post 103? How would fixation on past game content be either scummy or townie if it's performed by a great share of the player roster? I want game content that actually distinguishes the scum out of the town.

[saulres]

I took the combination of this, his first post:

This is a policy lynch. This needs to happen. He is a liability in LYLO.

With his claim of innocence here:

Let's say you lynch me. You are in 3/2 Lylo. Would a Venrob lynch benefit town?

as knowing all along that we'd wind up in LyLo tomorrow if we killed him.

pedit: njoseph, to your point: Something else in my 115: He was "worried" in the first quoted post that I wasn't scumhunting, but he hasn't done

any

scumhunting -- he pushed a policy lynch, and then sheeped someone. He's also made jokes. But he hasn't been looking for scum.

[njoseph]

okay, after trying to process the omissions Salamence has been making, I have developed a personal ultimatum for Salamence:
@Salamence, if you're going to keep your vote on Disturbed_1, you're going to have report as to WHY he's scum beyond being voted for by Klick, or I will support your lynch.

[njoseph]

@Salamence, being candid about reasons or being closer to being gone, that will be the price you pay for having your vote on Disturbed as a sheep vote.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Minerals replaces Venrob

[Disturbed_One]

nah you are making big assumptions about something being obvious to you will automatically be obvious to everyone.

I see nothing to indicate he knew we would be in LyLo. Even if he did, it is quite possible for town to not care or realize that going into LyLo after a pl is a bad idea.

Post #127 suggests it was pretty obvious that Sal knew Venrob PL would force us into LYLO. So I'm actually not making assumptions at all.

[Klick]

Actually, Post #127 is wrong. He was assuming that lynching

himself

would put us in LyLo, which is obviously going to be his PoV.

[Disturbed_One]

Actually, Post #127 is wrong. He was assuming that lynching

himself

would put us in LyLo, which is obviously going to be his PoV.

Actually, if he has the mental faculties to even consider Lylo at all for himself, it isn't at all a stretch of the imagination to suggest that he is quite aware that lynching Venrob on PL could push us into Lylo. Do you honestly think he is somehow oblivious to this?

[Klick]

If he's town, he

doesn't

know that lynching Venrob will put us in LyLo.

[Disturbed_One]

If he's town, he

doesn't

know that lynching Venrob will put us in LyLo.

But nonetheless the probability of Venrob flipping scum based on a PR lynch is not favorable. So basically to argue in his favor, you have to argue that he's ignorant of this fact. And I don't think it's likely that he is.

[4nxi3ty]

Let's say you lynch me. You are in 3/2 Lylo. Would a Venrob lynch benefit town?

as knowing all along that we'd wind up in LyLo tomorrow if we killed him.

except this happened after you had already explained we would be in lylo tommorow.

njospeh soft-defending salamence and then turning around, getting ready to jump on his wagon is scummy imo.

[saulres]

njospeh soft-defending salamence and then turning around, getting ready to jump on his wagon is scummy imo.

Only if Sal flips town.

Speaking of Sal (again), I notice how he's somewhat avoiding this thread. Scum who doesn't know what to do?

[njoseph]

You are saying that Salamence's policy lynching is too appalling of a townie act to be believed as a townie act.
It's also equally too appallingly dumb of a scum act to be believed as a scum act.
Thus I would say that he's no less or more likely to be town/scum, based on this information, than before the game started.

Calling Salamence null at that point was not defense. However, sheeping Klick and pursuing a Disturbed_One lynch for no reason DOES make Salamence be more likely to be scum.

[njoseph]

If he's town, he

doesn't

know that lynching Venrob will put us in LyLo.

But nonetheless the probability of Venrob flipping scum based on a PR lynch is not favorable. So basically to argue in his favor, you have to argue that he's ignorant of this fact. And I don't think it's likely that he is.

I see how you can dispute the ignorance idea, but to me it's not really a good argument to say it's too ignorant for town to do, and my reason for saying this is that it's too ignorant for scum to do as well.
@saulres, Salamence's following Klick's vote on Disturbed is almost too convenient of a reason to vote against that particular player, and I somehow don't see Salamence copying Klick's votes in all cases.
If Salamence flips scum, consider the idea that Disturbed_1 may have been bussed by Salamence.

[njoseph]

nah you are making big assumptions about something being obvious to you will automatically be obvious to everyone.

I see nothing to indicate he knew we would be in LyLo. Even if he did, it is quite possible for town to not care or realize that going into LyLo after a pl is a bad idea.

Post #127 suggests it was pretty obvious that Sal knew Venrob PL would force us into LYLO. So I'm actually not making assumptions at all.

@Klick, yes you're right about post 127. It's a pretty sloppy misrep to say its context was about Venrob's being lynched day 1.

[njoseph]

@Disturbed, how do you get "Venrob PL" from Salamence's saying "Let's say you lynch me [then] You are in 3/2 LYLO" ?

[Disturbed_One]

@Disturbed, how do you get "Venrob PL" from Salamence's saying "Let's say you lynch me [then] You are in 3/2 LYLO" ?

My argument is that if Salamence is able to consider that lynching himself would put us into LYLO, he should also be able to see that a Venrob PL would force us into LYLO as well.

Someone made the point that he wouldn't be able to know that it would put us into LYLO, but I also explained that the definition of a PL means that we're lynching someone for reasons that typically have nothing to do with their alignment, therefore more likely than not that person will flip town.

So we're basically arguing over whether Sal is ignorant enough to not consider this.

But in any case, a lot of this back and forth is fueled by a lot of WIFOM on both sides. The fact remains Sal was all too happy to sheep Klick on to me and then tried to fish for a role-claim. That is very scummy behavior and is now the primary reason for my vote, and it's why I haven't unvoted.

[Salamence20]

^Why are you asking for a claim at L-2? Rolefishing?

My scumread on you just got bigger.

For some reason I was thinking 3 to lynch. My apologies.

[Disturbed_One]

We had 12 days to make a decision. You still jumped on a wagon and tried to push an early claim, so whether you made an error or not is irrelevant. Your general approach to my wagon and subsequent rush for a claim is quite fishy.

I know the deadline time is bankable and whatnot, but that still doesn't quite justify your actions in my mind.

[saulres]

Also, Sal, why are you ignoring njoseph's ultimatum?

[Salamence20]

I don't like his reasoning on how PL'ing Venrob makes me obvscum. I makes me really feel as if it's protecting a buddy.

[saulres]

That's fine, you don't have to like it.

But you really

do

need to provide a reasoning for your current vote other than "sheeping". Or do

something

else that could be considered scumhunting.

[njoseph]

I don't like his reasoning on how PL'ing Venrob makes me obvscum. I makes me really feel as if it's protecting a buddy.

Why are you throwing away the fact that the vote I'm actually calling you scummy for is the Disturbed_One?

[Salamence20]

And I just gave you the reason I voted him. His defense of Venrob is scummy.