Micro 95- The Beehive Mystery 2.5

[orcinus_theoriginal]

hurry boy hurry

and tell me what the scum intention behind my actions are

[Umbrage]

jmo shut up

[jmo16mla]

hurry boy hurry

and tell me what the scum intention behind my actions are

Actually, tell me the scum intentions of me not giving my analysis within a few hours time and why that's reason for a vote.

Umbridge, who the fuck said anything to you?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Because you've posted in the meantime and either you need to think a lot about answering my questions which presumes that you're scum making stuff up or...yeah no, just that. Hurry up and answer so I can go back to pushing Siv.

On second thought, I'm going to stop the bickering with xtoph because it isn't getting anywhere. However:

And how have I been attacking you?

Pedit: What does my reaction tell you?

You've been attacking me as opposed to defending yourself. It's really not the strongest of attacks, but I was trying to compare to what I might expect. You seem to be attempting to shift blames.
Also I can't tell you what your reaction tells me because that spoils the point of the test

Why are you effectively refusing to give me your read of me?

I'm looking for the people who aren't using the power of the town (see: "majority") to counteract the weakness of it (see: "uninformed"). Treating the vote like it's just a +1 on a vote count is not helping us with becoming informed.

Why is this scummy and not just bad town?

My read of you getting worse and worse every time you post.

[xtopherusD]

I don't have to tell you my read on you. Why would I have to tell you my read on you? Do you really have no idea what I think?

Also, I never said that that was scummy, and I did say that that was "bad town", to use your wording here. I've already said the difference between the two, and that's basically that "scummy" is useless and "least town" has to be the lynch.

And, I could say the same of you? Good for you. Try actually reading my posts, rather than finding the worst parts (that usually aren't even intended how you interpret them anyway).

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What benefit to town does withholding your read of me create?

ITT xtoph reveals that he isn't trying to lynch scum, but people who he feels are the worst players. Gotcha.

And what am I supposed to do, find the best parts of your posts and pat you on the head for it? I'll pick out the parts of your posts that I think look like scum and question you on it. We ARE trying to find scum here, remember?

[xtopherusD]

Here's a better question: Why would giving a half-formed read be helpful to the town, rather than trying to work out what I think before I start trying to convince other people of it?

And I never said that, either. I said that "scummy" is not a helpful thing to look for; rather, I'm looking for people who are not helping the town.

So you understand the concept of questioning for reads? Why are you so opposed to my doing that to you?
And there is a difference between reading my posts for Town parts, and reading my whole posts to see what I am trying to say.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I read your whole post and address the worst parts. I don't know what's confusing here. I'm not going to answer a comprehension test on your posts.

So xtoph, do you have any actual scumreads or what? Because all of your scum cases seem very weak right now and seem half-formed. You haven't been trying to convince anyone of any reads, and haven't been commenting on any of the scumcases except for Siv I think.

Okay and how does not helping town=scum? I'm not seeing how you're contributing to town's goal of finding scum at all.

I haven't been opposed to you questioning me for reads. I do find you questioning me a lot on a quick vote I slapped on you when I first started reading the game suspect.

[xtopherusD]

So xtoph, do you have any actual scumreads or what? Because all of your scum cases seem very weak right now and seem half-formed. You haven't been trying to convince anyone of any reads, and haven't been commenting on any of the scumcases except for Siv I think.

This is the OPPOSITE of what I said. Stop talking until you learn to read.

[xtopherusD]

Wait don't respond let me rephrase that.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So xtoph, do you have any actual scumreads or what? Because all of your scum cases seem very weak right now and seem half-formed. You haven't been trying to convince anyone of any reads, and haven't been commenting on any of the scumcases except for Siv I think.

This is the OPPOSITE of what I said. Stop talking until you learn to read.

lol

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Also why do you feel the need to insert some sort of insult at the end of every one of your damn posts?

[xtopherusD]

That quote shows that you read my comment in the OPPOSITE way of what I intended. I can't remember a time when you responded to a post of mine when you read everything correctly.

I'm starting to think this is a malicious twisting of words. It would be in your best interest to work out how to read what I'm saying before you keep taking

everything

I say as scummy.

I said don't respond. Come on.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So xtoph, do you have any actual scumreads or what? Because all of your scum cases seem very weak right now and seem half-formed. You haven't been trying to convince anyone of any reads, and haven't been commenting on any of the scumcases except for Siv I think.

I take it that you aren't going to answer this question?

OK I guess.

[xtopherusD]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU

/sigh

I already did answer that question, before you asked it. I already have told you that I don't need to answer that question again. Of course I don't have any full reads. It's like page five. I've been trying to make some. But you call it bickering. You're making it hard for town to do their job.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

After roughly 2 full pages of going back and forth with me and then saying that you would read something from my reaction, I find it highly unlikely that you have not at least a lean-read for me.

If you can't form a read from 2 pages of going back and forth with someone and SAYING that my reaction told you something, I shudder to think how much information you need to form a full read.

[xtopherusD]

I like making conclusions using facts. This 2 page back and forth will be useful at some stage, after we have some solid truths (including but not limited to flips) in play. Until then, anything anyone says could mean absolutely anything. I don't want to create reads on D1 that I will have to revise after each person dies.

At this stage of the game... nothing is true, everything is permitted*

* This isn't a claim of being an assassin. I just thought a reference^# would be better than an insult, dumbass^

^# Just because it's a reference doesn't mean it's not relevant and true.

^ This is irony not a serious insult.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I like making conclusions using facts. This 2 page back and forth will be useful at some stage, after we have some solid truths (including but not limited to flips) in play. Until then, anything anyone says could mean absolutely anything. I don't want to create reads on D1 that I will have to revise after each person dies.

At this stage of the game... nothing is true, everything is permitted*

* This isn't a claim of being an assassin. I just thought a reference^# would be better than an insult, dumbass^

^# Just because it's a reference doesn't mean it's not relevant and true.

^ This is irony not a serious insult.

So basically: We can expect absolutely nothing from you on day 1.

Am I reading this right?

[xtopherusD]

Have I been doing absolutely nothing?

[mozamis]

@ Orc -you voted for Siv. Then didn't really make a case on Siv. Then quite quickly unvoted and voted for Jmo. You haven't made a case on Jmo. And yet you are concentrating your fire on Topher? Do you actually think Topher is scum?
I'm keeping my vote on Umbrage for now, but you're not looking massively town to me, Orcy.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yes toph. And the way you said 141 is a blatant excuse from responsibility or forming any opinions that you can be held to on day 1.

Siv is scum. He's hypocritical, piggybacking a shitty reason that JMO made to vote me (which is scummier than making up the reason itself), and refusing to defend his vote on me and instead jumping off when I ask him about it.
Xtoph is scummier and scummier the more I question him.
I have no idea what JMO is until he answers my questions and I'm sick of him avoiding them. That's actually all I want from JMO, then he can shut up.
Slimer is Slimer and is thus always a good lynch.

I am good with a lynch of the first two.

The unvote of Siv wasn't quick.

I haven't started pushing a wagon yet. The way I see it, I like to collect information before pushing a wagon. For instance, if I tunneled Siv, I would never have caught the piece of work that is xtoph.

[Umbrage]

VOTE: xtopher

@ Orc -you voted for Siv. Then didn't really make a case on Siv. Then quite quickly unvoted and voted for Jmo. You haven't made a case on Jmo. And yet you are concentrating your fire on Topher? Do you actually think Topher is scum?
I'm keeping my vote on Umbrage for now, but you're not looking massively town to me, Orcy.

SO MUCH TOWN

"Do you actually think Topher is scum?" is such a dumb, bald question, it can't be from scum. And he actually keeps track of votes. This man here is TOWN.

I agree with orci that xtopher is getting scummier and scummier. When under fire, resort to humour. Claim the other person has it wrong before you actually read their post. Scum scum scum. He does the FRUSTRATED TOWNIE bit very well, but there's no reason for him to become frustrated as a townie. There's no effort in his posts, just MAKE A BIG NOISE.

Scum: slimer/xtopher

Maybe scum: Lincolm/Naomi

Useless town: jmo/moz

Town: Orci/Siv

[jmo16mla]

What was the purpose of "useless town" besides belittling someone?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why are you avoiding my questions?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I agree with orci that xtopher is getting scummier and scummier. When under fire, resort to humour. Claim the other person has it wrong before you actually read their post. Scum scum scum. He does the FRUSTRATED TOWNIE bit very well, but there's no reason for him to become frustrated as a townie. There's no effort in his posts, just MAKE A BIG NOISE.

Just to add on this: Xtopher only has one other game under his belt, in which he was lynched as town cop day 2 in an ongoing game. His play in that game was vastly different to his play in this game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Note a distinct lack of: anger, frustration, "read my posts", and humor. Also, (this is important) xtoph set down reads and actually called somebody out for doing the same thing xtoph is doing this game.

Spoiler: a sample from xtoph's ISO in that game

ISO 20: Cheery Dog posted a list of nulls? That's all well and good but I think I would like to see where all the other people sit (i.e. the people who are leaning town/leaning scum). Posting null reads is a very safe bet - there is no evidence to post as to why they are null... Because the reason they're null is that there are no tells in their posts. If Cheery Dog could maybe give us something more substantial that people could actually comment on please?
Added later note: Posting null reads is also safe because it's something that everyone will agree with. Getting people to start being comfortable with agreeing with you is another thing you are kind of doing.

(This is day 1 by the way)

I don't normally meta but this is a giant departure from your playstyle and I think the flip on the idea of "reads=useless without hard evidence" is damning.

Still want jmo to fucking answer my questions though, although he might just be town for intentionally being a pain in the ass.