Mini 1580: EpicMafiaTime [GAME OVER]

[Bookitty]

Thank you to everyone for the fun game, especially Skullduggery.

[d3x]

I am freaking gobsmacked by this game.

1- Epic flavor {as it should be in an EpicMealTime theme} and great Mod'ing, Skull. Thank you!
2- Epic gambit Nati. Hot shit, that was prostyle.
3- Epic Scumfail. I'm sorry guys, but I have no idea how this all fell apart for you. Sal's outting Generic left me dumbfounded, staring at the monitor in disbelief. This is why you never drop alignment until the Mod's posted the deathscene and the game's closed.

Scum played a hell of an early game, but damn...

Maybe this will be revealed in the Scum QT, but I have some questions re: the actions taken {esp N1}. You guys had a Strongarm Kill and a RB, so why Kill the Doc? Why not Strongarm HC, Block whomever, and leave the Doc to be strung up D2? Or RB the Doc and Kill HC? He basically outted himself as a PR in the waning pages of D1, so I don't get it at all.

[d3x]

Oh, and it was a pleasure playing with everyone.

GG all.

[Mirhawk]

BOO I'M SORRY. Man I was so sure you were scum, good job pulling our bacon out of the fire though.

This was a fun game, I had a blast playing with everyone so handshakes and back pats all around.

Props to Skulldeggery for the excellent modding as well.

[Bookitty]

<3 Mirhawk. Our disagreements were at least as much my fault as yours. At least it turned out okay

I do have one question:

@Nati: Why did you indicate to RedCoyoe that I was scum even after I passed up the chance for a scum win in favour of voting Salamence?

[Maestro]

Cabd brought me here

[RedCoyote]

I've got to admit, I feel sympathy for Sal, and to a lesser extent LLD. Generic really dropped the ball here. I don't know 100% who I would've voted for. The words I said in the thread were me being honest. I wanted to think on it and not reacted in a kneejerk way based on the emotions I was feeling at the moment. My mind told me Generic was scum, but my heart was going back and forth. Generic was definitely tugging at my heartstrings there at the end.

That said, the town, especially Nat, Boo and d3x, played very well.

I was reading over the dead thread, and, mod, don't listen to SG. SG, unless you're hit by a truck, don't tell me life kept you from taking 2 minutes to PM Skull and say, "Sorry, have to replace out". I didn't agree with you being lynched, but there's no excuse for you to drop from the site for 5-6 days, come back shortly after you are lynched and say that it's unfair to call your play bad. You hurt us and you should own up to that, imo.

Nat, hell of a game, my friend. Great gambit. I echo Boo's sentiments though. I wonder why you were so convinced Boo was scum in light of the factors we both brought up on D6. Were you being sarcastic or did you not notice these things?

Thanks to the mod and the replacements for keeping this game going! gg all!

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hello, my apologies for getting force replaced; life got crazy and I logged on to find two PMS, the first telling me to post and a second saying not to bother. As I mentioned, I was sort of testing to see if my new life circumstances could handle Mafia, and the result was not what I hoped. That being said, I regret that my problems wound up being to everybody else's expense.

RC, Nat, you two are amongst my favorite scummers and it was great getting to play with both of you at once. Boo, I also enjoyed playing with you, especially now that we're both no longer new players. Skull, great modding and great game. Sorry I couldn't hang in all the way.

[Natirasha]

Woo.

[Natirasha]

I thought Boo was scum legitimately, but part of that was wishful thinking and the thing Gen was saying about voting with Sal does sound like something he'd do if town, lol. I think if someone mentioned that Boo could have won at some point, I would have made the right call.

BUT THANKFULLY I DIED.

[Generic]

I am surprised you admonish salamence of any responsibility redcoyote given he completely sold me out on the penultimate day.

But then given you were willing to vote boo kitty just to avoid nats being mad at you I guess your logic isn't very good anyway.

[Generic]

In fact, I'm gonna go one further on that.

The only reason scum were still in a position to win was because of me. Salamence had basically handed me on a plate. LLD had done fuck all and died because of it. And I gave you way too much credit to actually see the obvious rather than fear what someone else might say about you RC.

My win to throw away. So I gucking did so. Sal can be angry, but every member of the scum team is responsible for this loss. The difference is I couldn't give a fuck and I have the best scum record of the three of us.

I've never known a town player angry at winning and being stopped from looking stupid. I mean seriously, you are angry that I took away your opportunity to loss the game got town in the most ridiculous manner possible?

Lol.

[Bookitty]

@Nati:

Your gambit WON town this game. You are by far the MVP for town, and D3X is second for his LLD catch. While I was coming around to the idea that Sala was scum due to a couple of odd posts and relentless buddying, I don't see any way I would ever have suspected Generic. His posts just seem SO freaking sincere. Regardless of how you would have voted, it's through your efforts that town had a chance at all.

@Haschel:

It was so great to play with you again! <3 I can relate to real life issues affecting play. I'm being promoted at work, which should be good, but it's at the expense of my boss and good friend who is being force-retired (force-replaced) because my institution wants a younger and more dynamic workforce. It's unfair and it makes me very sad

@Squirrel Girl:

I LOVE your playstyle and I wish real life hadn't made it difficult/impossible for you to defend yourself. At least for me, you were right that it was just PoE and not your play that led up to your lynch. I don't really agree with Skullduggery that you played wrong for a BP, but opinions on Mafia theory and optimal play are as varied and diverse as the shades of colour in the rainbow I thought you were great and you lent a much needed dose of humour to the game.

@Generic:

You were awesome fun to play with (I will say this for d3x and kthxbye too) and to me, at least, you played a near-flawless town game as scum. You were a truly formidable opponent. I agree that my argument about passing up a sure win was water-tight from a logical perspective; I think you made the classy move and I hope I would have the guts to do the same in a similar situation.

[Generic]

Thankyou boo, much appreciated.

[Oversoul]

Yeah Generic, I find you to be a very fun person to play with (I'm little lizard from MTGS).

[Generic]

Hi lizard! It's been a little while, hope you are well

[Squirrel Girl]

I was reading over the dead thread, and, mod, don't listen to SG. SG, unless you're hit by a truck, don't tell me life kept you from taking 2 minutes to PM Skull and say, "Sorry, have to replace out". I didn't agree with you being lynched, but there's no excuse for you to drop from the site for 5-6 days, come back shortly after you are lynched and say that it's unfair to call your play bad. You hurt us and you should own up to that, imo.

I did not deny that I lurked, nor that my lurk was bad.
I did deny that I played BP badly and lacked aggression or fear in offering my thoughts.

If he had said 'your lurk hurt town' I would have fully agreed with him - it did.
He said that my lack of aggression and fear of being lynched hurt town. I disagree with that.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Squirrel Girl: I LOVE your playstyle and I wish real life hadn't made it difficult/impossible for you to defend yourself. At least for me, you were right that it was just PoE and not your play that led up to your lynch.

I lurvs you too I thought you played brilliantly this game.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, well, I won't put words in the mod's mouth. It looked like he just said you played your role badly, which I agree with. Granted, I'd say that for anyone with a PR that lets themselves get lynched in that situation, but still. Anyway, you played good up until that point, at least.

HC, good to play with you again, too. I wish you had more time for the site. Maybe someday.

Gen, you're right in that Sal shouldn't have started bragging like he did on D5. I was so shocked with your vote that that seemed like a relatively less egregious sin, but you're right in that that was pride coming before the fall (oh, what a sweet fall it was, lol). I don't want to speak for Sal, but it appeared to me like he "outted" you to try and WIFOM the rest of the town, and, during that small window of him strongly attaching himself to you, he appeared to have fooled Nat temporarily.

I've never known a town player angry at winning and being stopped from looking stupid. I mean seriously, you are angry that I took away your opportunity to loss the game got town in the most ridiculous manner possible?

Because it wasn't "your win to throw away". How pompous of you to say that. How arrogant to think you know the heart and mind of another human being and can make such a judgment about them. This game is an art, first and foremost, before a science. It's not any player's place to dictate whether or not someone did good/bad enough to "deserve" to beat them. That completely undermines the spirit of the game. Like, take that game I referenced earlier, Mafia 125. I was a vig that shot 2 of the 4 scum and an SK in that game. I'm not saying this to brag, but to make a point. On the final day, when it was down to a mafia ascetic, town rb, town vig, and vt, meaning the town would be able to eliminate two of the four. The scum, seeing that two of the townies suspected him already, could've just given up and let us win, but he stuck it out and ended up taking it.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying that, winning this game isn't about someone deeming someone else "worthy" of winning. It's about earning victory. I'll gladly take a loss here and there by making the wrong call if I can get my share of victories that I earn as well. The sweet isn't as sweet without the sour, Gen, and I hope you get a chance to think about what that means.

[Squirrel Girl]

Eh, if I "played good up until that point" and the issue was the four days I was not present and town lynched me - then my crime was lurk, and not what he said it was, and I never disagreed that my lurk was bad. So I think you and I agree with what we did "wrong", and I and Skull disagree. I played my role no worse than if I had been a VT though - the lynch was due to PoE and lurk, and me playing my role different would not have changed anything besides maybe claiming the Day before when I'd been around...though I have doubts that would have done much of value.

[Squirrel Girl]

Looking back, my wagon was also 50% scum.

[Squirrel Girl]

So was Generic's, but...

[Bookitty]

Eh, if I "played good up until that point" and the issue was the four days I was not present and town lynched me - then my crime was lurk, and not what he said it was, and I never disagreed that my lurk was bad. So I think you and I agree with what we did "wrong", and I and Skull disagree. I played my role no worse than if I had been a VT though - the lynch was due to PoE and lurk, and me playing my role different would not have changed anything besides maybe claiming the Day before when I'd been around...though I have doubts that would have done much of value.

If you had been present and put up any kind of defense, I had a strong enough town read on you that I would have fought for you. To ME, the only thing you did wrong was to disappear; that can happen to any one of us and I don't hold you responsible for it. I thought you played really well otherwise.

@Red Coyote:

I don't understand why you're railing at Generic in the way that you are. Opinions may vary, but Salamence actually instructed Generic to self-vote, if you don't recall. The way you're arguing, it seems as if you are angry that Generic didn't let you lose the game for town in the way you wished to. Is that what you're trying to convey to the rest of us?

I don't think anyone, including Generic, could have predicted that you would be so irrational that you would be willing to vote me given these indisputable facts:

• Generic had put a naked vote on you, sheeping Sala who had just finished announcing Generic as his scumbuddy and was in the process of quicklynching you, something I couldn't do a thing about;
  
  When Nati voted Salamence, I could still have voted for you and won the game for scum HAD I BEEN SCUM.

To think that Generic was town and that I was scum, given those two facts, you'd have to believe I was the dumbest scum alive. That I rushed in to vote Salamence (the first non-Nati vote, by the way) rather than helping out my scumbuddy Salamence to win the game. Generic was actually paying you a compliment, by the way, by assuming that you'd make the only rational call given the FACTS as they existed. In return, you've been fairly condescending about how he shouldn't have given up.

Apparently, if he hadn't, though, you would have had your chance to go against all logic and lose it for town. Would that have been a better outcome?

[Generic]

Boo covered it very eloquently.

And yes it was my game to throw away, I was the one who had to pick up the pieces after Salamence openly declared me as sc thinking nats was a neutral. He hasn't once denied he believed the gambit. So my actions to turn this into a wifom excerice which sal then picked up on (only after encouraging me to give up when he thought all was lost) was the sole reason scum were in any position to win. And the mere fact I gave you far more credit than I should have was my folly.

Do you realise if I hadn't looked in and saw a lovely piece of unarguable logic from boo you current claim is that I would now be able to gloat that I overturned an impossible situation? And you would have half the town railing on YOU for bad play and not thinking?

I will be pompous as you see it therefore. Nats deserved every bit of credit for an outstanding gambit, and she and boo certainly didn't deserve to see you toss it away.

I've lost, only the second time on mafiascum as scum, and I applaud the town team on their win. Get over yourself RC and stop being so butthurt that you didn't get to throw the game away for town.

[RedCoyote]

Boo, again, I don't speak for Sal, but I thought his D5 post-Nat vt claim was all WIFOM. So the claim that he "outted" Gen doesn't really hold water for me. I applaud that you were able to see through it so easily. You're clearly better at reading him than I am, because I wasn't aware whom his partner was at that moment. After I had a chance to consider it, I was leaning toward Generic, because I brought up both of those very points you just did, but I wanted to sleep on it because I didn't want to make any rash decisions before getting a chance to give it enough thought. If that makes me irrational, so be it.

Losing or winning is besides the point, it's the choice that matters, darling. Without the choice, the game is less fun, in my eyes. I guess I just believe in fighting it to the end. I don't believe in any sort of threshold to where, "X did good enough, I can give up now". I'm not saying I'm right, but I appreciate hearing your point of view as well.

Do you realise if I hadn't looked in and saw a lovely piece of unarguable logic from boo you current claim is that I would now be able to gloat that I overturned an impossible situation? And you would have half the town railing on YOU for bad play and not thinking?

Brother, I had the same questions Boo had brought up. Additionally, you cannot assume that I would've lynched Boo after the fact... you took away that choice from me. Now I guess we'll never know what would've happened!