DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[Almost Chara]

Where do you stand with twc currently and why?
They didn't respond to my question and seem to do you pretty hard for little reason back there.
Plus I wonder why you didn't question them.

i've been watching the hydra but nothing they'd done has pinged me or made me wonder, so while i don't have any reason to townread them majorly, i don't have any reason to scumread them either.
Almost is sure they're town, so i'm trusting him. if i see something that contradicts that, i'll make it known.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

i did ask, Shepard. i wanted to know how you came to the conclusion you did re: farside and myself.
~Chara

Intent behind the posting.

Then just say that no need to go into the rest of it.

i need more information. what's farside's intent in her posting? what was mine?
~Chara

[Wraith]

Gonna be honest, after the flurry of activity a couple days ago it really feels like the day is in the denouement stage and people on the fence are just trying to convince themselves which wagon to commit to as deadline approaches.

[The Wood Cutters]

I mean, we could always policy lynch Sheppy, I'm still down for that

[Aristophanes]

VC 1.16

HavingFitz

(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Wraith

(3): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688, Shaddowez 1083

Almost Chara

(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

Tea and Biscuits

(1): Prism 1091

Shaddowez

(1): CloudKicker 1263

Not Voting

(2): Farside22 979, HavingFitz 1097

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
No vote changes!

Farside22 is V/LA until Monday

[Tea and Biscuits]

Okay, so, a couple of things.

Firstly, my townread on AC. It stems mainly from the following:

RC though I'll call it a "sinking feeling" for now. The replace out at this precise time right after the Newbie game finished (where he was scum and I called him out but nobody listened) doesn't bode well with me.

Here's the link

Of course I could be wrong and imagining things, but that's how I view things right now anyway.

~A50

[somewhere around here A50 starts being called out by a bunch of people for accusing RC of strategically replacing out]

Anyway, it's now either TM or RC for me. If EITHER flips red I'm going after BOTH nancy and Postie (T&B). The reasoning is in the hydra PT for now, but I'm fairly confident. (Confident enough to drive a lynch on either nancy/Postie before RC/TM if I could. My problem is I'm still weak in constructing cases and making people follow them, so I'll take the TM lynch first to use the Mod-confirmed flip afterwards as it would no longer be "working under the assumption"; i.e. the alignment cannot be refuted).

Hmmm.. deliberating with Chara is GOOD as it makes me rethink some stuff. Their arguments ESPECIALLY when they seem to differ from my views and me trying to rephrase my own arguments make me see things.

[...]

My explanation is this:

Since RC knew better, then he probably would not have fed his own scum team false info. So who did? THINKBIG. He was the other one in that game and he thought I faked a guilty on him, and he blamed me post-game, so he is the one who told them about that game.

When? Long before I had provided the link in this game thread.

Why? Because while momo was pushing me with weak sauce (I've never seen him play like that) it was THINKBIG who got paranoid by my VT claim. Scum tried to evaluate that claim to see if it was true (being scum they already know I'm Town, but whether I'm really a VT is what they were trying to figure out). ThinkBig told them about the Newbie game proceedings from his own PoV, and that's how BOTH thought they were telling the right narrative.

Again: I don't know why they would defend RC. RC cannot be pocketed, and he had already requested to replace out (which is why the whole subject was brought up my me in the first place), so I have absolutely no explanation why they would do that.

But that's besides the point. The point is: WRONG NARRATIVE .. TWO SLOTS ... SHORT TIME = Most probably were fed the info through the same source, and that source is most likely ThinkBig.

So, I'm proud to call Thinkmomo, Tea & Biscuits AND nancy: the 3 partners in crime in this game.

(snipped slightly for length)

I would expect A50 as scum, on being told that accusing RC of strategically replacing out is kinda dumb and shitty, to either say "sorry guys yeah that was kinda shitty of me" or double down on it. What I wouldn't expect him to do is talk to his hydra partner and then say "actually, I have CAUGHT THE ENTIRE SCUMTEAM". That feels very much like a confbiased town thing to do.

Especially

Again: I don't know why they would defend RC. RC cannot be pocketed, and he had already requested to replace out (which is why the whole subject was brought up my me in the first place), so I have absolutely no explanation why they would do that.

this part.
He openly admits there are major flaws in his argument, but then goes on to say that that doesn't really matter because he's caught the entire scumteam anyway. It feels

very

confbias-y, as opposed to scum trying to sell a mislynch. I don't think that scum!A50 would think this "case" would convince anyone, especially as he goes on to say

Now, do I even care if anyone believes me? Absolutely not. I'm fairly satisfied to have called the scum team. Whether the Town players are willing to lynch them one after one is totally up to them. The Newbie game may have ended in a scum win but I personally will call it a personal win, because I DID call the scumsters (both of them) in that one too and it was Town!Accountant, Town!TB (on D2) and Town!Drixx (on D3) who opposed me, so totally not my fault that my calls were spot on and they didn't listen.

I'm reading the smug satisfaction here as mildly towny too.

Now, I think there is something to be said for A50 potentially just wanting to pull a case out of their ass to look towny, but overall I find the way the whole thing developed and played out a lot of more likely to come from town.

-- Postie

[Tea and Biscuits]

Secondly, I want to address nancy's read on RC.
Between saying she couldn't read him yet because he hadn't started playing the game, and nancy putting him as her top scumread, RC hadn't really done anything other than call Shepard as the "correct" lynch. I'm assuming, then, that this is probably why nancy scumread RC, and it's something that made me uneasy too. For me, it didn't feel like a genuine push, though I'm not sure I can properly articule why other than that RC was trying to push it as the "correct" play. I wonder if nancy picked up on something similar.

But here's the thing: RC is dishonest about his motivations for wanting someone lynched as town often. It's something that he's required to do a scum, but there are also reasons for town!RC to do so. And in this case, that motive was definitely there. RC has Shepard's main blacklisted, can't stand being in games with them, and has a very low opinion of their town game. But if he said that those were reasons he wanted Shepard lynched in addition to their derptunnel on me, would that be likely to persuade anyone? Probably not. So it makes sense for him to push the lynch from a different angle.

The fact he replaced out immediately after I said I wasn't willing to go along with his push and would rather work with Shepard also makes perfect sense in light of that. In fact, it's town-telling, if anything.

tl;dr: I don't think nancy's read means much here; RC didn't do anything he wouldn't do as town

-- Postie

[The Wood Cutters]

Where is superjack?

[Tea and Biscuits]

Lastly, Wraith.
From what I've gathered, people have been calling him town for posts such as

I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?

so I'm here to tell you why that's bullshit.

Does it look genuine? Sure. Does genuine = town? Fuck no.
I buy that Wraith would be frustrated with being mislynched all the time and that this could make him demotivated, but there's no reason for it to bother him any less as scum.
I know this, because I've been in the same situation, and even considered writing up a post bitching about it because I figured people might townread the frustration I was channeling.

He's also using this as a substitute for meaningful content. And that's really the problem I've had with Wraith all game. He's substituting content that moves the game forward with complaining. (The post he made above is another great example of this.)
It's hugely scum-indicative because it's an easy way to say things that look game-relevant but don't mean anything.
Letting Wraith get away with that and even townreading him for it is

shameful

.

Wraith needs to die, today.

-- Postie

[Empking]

Empking: I definitely think I could come up with the reasoning in 277 if I was scum. Why do you think momo couldn't?

If you were told: Respond to this post. Then you could come up with that reasoning; sure. I think the alacrity, brevity, correctness, directness, and the emotion in getting that post - and only that post - shows that while he was reading the thread he was reading it with town eyes.

[havingfitz]

Usually v/LA on weekends but didn't state it this time because I hoped to get caught up over the weekend. Only through about half the game.

Spoiler...my current townreads are Drealm, Prism, RC, CCShepard, Infinity and maaaybe TeaBiscuit.

More when I get to it.

[Infinity 324]

Wraith, what's your read on prism?

[The Wood Cutters]

Nacho, what do you think of my townread on you?

I think Prism has a valid criticism when he says that I would probably accidentally shadow you as scum.

I also think that good reads on me (early, before I'm forced to start making obvious scum moves) are typically more feeling than logic and I think you're probably picking up on that due to your oots comment.

[The Wood Cutters]

Gonna be honest, after the flurry of activity a couple days ago it really feels like the day is in the denouement stage and people on the fence are just trying to convince themselves which wagon to commit to as deadline approaches.

Read and comment on the post I made on you, please.

[The Wood Cutters]

Letting Wraith get away with that and even townreading him for it is shameful.

...she says, waving an angry fist at all of those harsh and cruel injustices that didn't actually exist.

Who has said that they're townreading Wraith for that? Who is letting him get away with something he shouldn't be getting away with? If you're referencing the recent post on him that I made, please read it again; I don't think you're understanding the position I'm taking here.

[The Wood Cutters]

Bolded the problem here. While I may have been reticent to stick my neck out in Sakura Wars, the other game you've seen with me as scum, and the one I was by far more energetic in, had the exact opposite case.

I said that sticking your neck out has nothing to do with willingness to die. You bring up that you've been energetic and being willing to die and energetic and willing to carry. I have no idea what your statement has to do with mine; we are talking past each other here.

[Infinity 324]

I think prism is saying that he can be willing to stick his neck out as scum.

[The Wood Cutters]

If I was forced to hazard a guess, I suspect that you know there's a lot that you don't know about my scumplay-how that plays into your alignment here, I'm not quite sure, which is why it's a puzzle.

It doesn't play into my alignment much. As town, I don't actually know what you're capable of. I don't know your natural tendencies. I do know you have a terrifying range based on what you've demonstrated in a short time, I know you have a very strong drive, and I know that you have a great mind for strategy. If you are scum, you are my biggest threat. And so, I'm much more aggressive about getting a read on you than I am for others, which means a lot of my angles will be bad. As scum, I know I have to fake interactions with you, I know you'll be reading me in the hydra, so immediately I'll be pushing to make you a contender for a mislynch, immediately looking to discredit you and making your experience getting into the game as difficult as possible, and I have the perfect excuse to do it.

This post has no real purpose for anyone not named Prism and, even then, its usefulness is debatable.

[The Wood Cutters]

I think prism is saying that he can be willing to stick his neck out as scum.

My problem is that he goes "I totally do stick my neck out as scum! Here are a bunch of examples that have nothing to do with what you're trying to say!".

I think this probably happens because I dropped a term that means something different for me than it does for other people (I play on different sites or I get concepts I like from certain people and it never turns out well). I'm just trying to get is back on track.

[The Wood Cutters]

I think your treatment of me in general with those posts, both with activity and with purported scum tendencies, were nuanced and odd. The not realizing my intent with the post about AC wasn't much of an issue to me, though I remember the force or energy with which you took to it to again be strange.

To be fair with regards to the activity point, it's not like I saw you lurking and called you out on it, it's that I didn't know you were posting with limited time because you didn't say anything about it. Yes I'm aware of sketchy schedules (note how I am extremely in and out myself), but I assumed "when you're here you're here" erroneously. That was a mistake, but I don't see it being the type of mistake that eats away at you for pages and pages.

[Commander Shepard]

@Shepard:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I thought you were NOT that player that did not exist and is not in this game. Can't you see the irony in you arguing with me about your meta when you don't want me to use your meta in my arguments with you???

You know you can't have your π and eat it too.

~A50

I know that player's play pretty well. Since you insist on saying I am that person I am merely playing to what cards are dealt since you refuse to deal with well facts.

[Commander Shepard]

Another placeholder until I get home.

Damn 24 hour commute? Traffic must be brutal when not using a Nomad.

[Commander Shepard]

I mean, we could always policy lynch Sheppy, I'm still down for that

So you don't believe your scumreads then? Ok.

I am down for lynching TWC. I have barely posted and somehow still "policy".

[Commander Shepard]

i did ask, Shepard. i wanted to know how you came to the conclusion you did re: farside and myself.
~Chara

Intent behind the posting.

Then just say that no need to go into the rest of it.

i need more information. what's farside's intent in her posting? what was mine?
~Chara

I did. Not sure what you need here? The intent behind your posting isn't trying to read anyone and Farside's is.

[Almost Chara]

Shepard, i understand the desire to play in an alt, but you've already outed yourself. you can't honestly expect people who know you to ignore that they do.
~Chara

pedit: you've barely posted? that's not a reason

against

a policy lynch.

peditx2: no, you're still not giving enough information. what about farside's posting shows she's interested in reading me? you're being very vague.