Mini 1245: Trouble in Paradise (Over!)

[Thor665]

Heck, even look at his dance with me.
I keep saying over and over - 'I'm right, here's why, look at the evidence, I'm right. Here's links, I'm right. Please oh gawd do the research because it supports me and I'm right!'

Yabba's replies are a lack of providing links, but acting smugly secure he's telling the truth. Then he has a few debates with me where he even goes so far as to say stuff like 'well, you're right, but if we *mumble, mumble and close one eye and twist our head and squint* then I might be right too!" Also the case on you is huge, but I can't say it. Also you use AtE! Oh...yeah, I am too...and...well, mt AtE is town and yours must still be scum, never mind that you never called me on AtE and I acted like it was a slam dunk...and obviously you and bionic both decided to redefine the way scum play this game, and your meta is still a lie, because I sez so...and...oh gawds, why do I look so weak and scummy, I never should have gone in one on one vs. Thor when a lynch is on the line! (/Vazzini)

[Sleepless Assassin]

So you're saying his point, that this is a unique situation and links are near impossible to find, is BS?

[Thor665]

I think that his inability to seem to grok my meta is BS when he uses it as part of his case.
I think his admission that this is a magically unique situation that has never come up before in the annals of mafia history is not BS - I think that's something you should be paying extreme and careful attention to as a matter of fact.

[Sleepless Assassin]

scum have probably claimed SK before. I'm not sure I can recall a game where they've done it with a buddy still alive.

If you're town, you've been guessing pretty well about:
-daytalk
-the delayer
-I feel like there was another

[Thor665]

scum have probably claimed SK before. I'm not sure I can recall a game where they've done it with a buddy still alive.

Oh, claiming SK *I* could provide you.
CLaiming SK to get their buddy lynched in lylo?
That's...kinda different.

If you're town, you've been guessing pretty well about:
-daytalk
-the delayer
-I feel like there was another

I agree, I do not suck at the game.
I also was correct on two of my lynch calls, though admit I reversed on one due to double scum wagons - and considering there was a no lynch Day and I'm correct today that means my lynch accuracy>50% - which pleases me. Literally the only real "mistake" I made as town was getting scum vibes off yabba for misrepping Snarky which 'derp'.
Though figuring out the delayer was not so much that I was brilliant it's that you and Whisper for some reason never seemed to remember the no kill night. ::shrug::
I'm not bad at this game - that's another knock on the scum case on me. The only way I'm scum is if either I'm a twit - or I decided to play like a twit the entire time just because I figured no one would call me on it.
And the daytalk thing...I swear I'm going to smack you in the face if you keep bringing that up as a tell. Seriously - go quote the post in question and tell me how that's a magical insight into daytalk as opposed to JUST BEING AWARE DAYTALK HAPPENS SOMETIMES!

[Thor665]

Deep question to help you understand how the daytalk tell is silly;

If there had been no daytalk would it have been a towntell on me?

[yabbaguy]

Eh, we'll play normally then.

I think that his inability to seem to grok my meta is BS when he uses it as part of his case.

Hold up a sec, I think SA agrees with me when we mention that you haven't been hunting in the same Town-motivated way as before. You cherry-picked the meta and showed us one snippet where you were voting supposedly baselessly, which matches, but you omitted the bit where you decided to pursue a case aggressively. Now you're waking up, but obviously, you have to at this point, so that means nothing.

Yabba's replies are a lack of providing links, but acting smugly secure he's telling the truth.

Well one, I provided a link showing how the real-life good guys know that bearded people are scum, and two, why are you trying to say that

I'm

smugly secure? You're the one who's got the out-of-place enthusiasm that you're right.

You're accusing me of lacking citations, but none of your own. Where's my baselessness? Simple logic has pretty much ruling this argument, the way I see it.

I'm not bad at this game - that's another knock on the scum case on me. The only way I'm scum is if either I'm a twit - or I decided to play like a twit the entire time just because I figured no one would call me on it.

Uh oh. If SA thinks that's a tell, then me and my bad-at-this-game self is in deep doodoo right now.

[Thor665]

@yabba - you're saying I haven't been aggressive this game? You're saying I haven't pursued reads and ideas doggedly - to the point you were even telling me to 'shut up' as I pressured on you?
Yeah, pull the other one, it has bells on.

I've provided citations, you have not, so...huh? I went into the game you cited, and took out quotes to show how I played the same - your response? "Nah, Thor played different...derpty-derp-doo." Yeah, pull the...oh, wait, I already used that, um...just keep the tallywacking party going there hotshot.

@SA - Please tell me you're seeing this. If you're *still* sitting at 'Herp, Thor 85% scum' then you might as well hammer me now, because I can't figure out how to show you a better knockout punch than I've done. If I've shifted you a bit then keep on coming at me, because the case is still air + stupid on me. Heck, do yourself a favor and engage yabba a bit as to the case on me, you'll sit around wondering where the walls are for a while and then you'll notice the holes. Then ask for his evidence of him as town and watch as he repeats my case for him.

Other random thought to prove Thor is town;

The current super proof of SA=town was Godfather+Delay ability? Bwuh?
Person who brought delay ability into conversation?
Thor.
Day he did this?
Today, lylo, the day he's theoretically supposed to be arranging a mislynch, and instead decides to keep clunking at the setup and looking for answers?
The day where the only reason Thorscum would have to kill Whisker was to push through an SA mislynch on 'lol, obv. scum killed Whiskers!'?
Yeah...
C'mon man, rocket science - it's all not up in here.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Thor, no. I don't think it would be a town tell.

Yabba, I actually never said anything about Thor's town meta.

Thor, it's more like 60/40 now.

[yabbaguy]

Yabba, I actually never said anything about Thor's town meta.

Huh?

|
v

By the way, I glanced at your meta maybe a week ago. I don't see hard bnussing. I see repetitive jabs at scumbuddies without really voting them unless you really need to. That's distancing, not bussing. I also see that you have this weird habit of NEVER dying. Not by lynch and not by NK. It's weird.

Oh, you were mentioning scum meta. ._. I do want to know your thoughts on Thor's claimed Town meta - as you'll clearly see, what he quotes makes sense when he mentions the baseless votes, but when you read further, you'll notice the side of Thor that pursues cases in that game (again, that was the big-ass interrogation of me) is there kinda sorta... but it just isn't there. We saw a lot of Thor blathering and misrepping and a lot less of Thor hunting this game.

@SA - here's the timeline as I see it.

Snarky - Yo, dawgs, I find some people scummy, mostly CTD/Buddy Lee - but I see yabba as his scum partner because of this. Also, yo, Thor, whassup wit your case, I'mma interested!
Thor - Beard, beard, beardity, beard...
Grimm - But what happened to all that Mer suspicion?
Snarky - Um, whut? Yo, Mer=yabba lrn 2 read foo'!
Grimm - but you're supporting a case you don't agree with!
Snarky - I...I never said that hashbrown casserole.
SA - Snap! How can you say you suspect a guy but then get bent out of shape for being called out for suspecting him! SCUM!!!
Snarky - ...whut?
SA - This is a huge jump in logic for you to suspect someone and then express interest in a case someone else has on that same person, and then you got paranoid! PARANOID!!!
Snarky - ...lol...um...wait...is this April 1st?

Do you think posts like this help or add more white noise to the game?

@yabba - you're saying I haven't been aggressive this game? You're saying I haven't pursued reads and ideas doggedly - to the point you were even telling me to 'shut up' as I pressured on you?
Yeah, pull the other one, it has bells on.

I've provided citations, you have not, so...huh? I went into the game you cited, and took out quotes to show how I played the same - your response? "Nah, Thor played different...derpty-derp-doo." Yeah, pull the...oh, wait, I already used that, um...just keep the tallywacking party going there hotshot.

I yelled at you because it was absolute white noise of misreps and nonsense. That's another way your scumhunting style is anti-Town. This actually is even more proof that your scumhunting isn't just a matter of disagreement.

It isn't hard to comprehend, and I know you know this, Thor.

---

Look, let's bring something else up - the prior attempts to prove me scum. I mean, we've had the "Snarky bus is just derpderping" thing going on, but the fact is, I had a concise and to the point scumhunting method that was much Townier.

Every case on me up to this point also has clearly had scum on it. I mean, I complain here:

Let's have a look at the reasons why people are suspecting me:

You = Diddly-squat
don = Following your diddly-squat
CTD's rep. = Meransiel slipped (where?) and that my vote on Coug was bad. (A: not a scumtell B: as clearly evidenced, if I'd stuck with Coug, Soda would've been the lynch for sure. I didn't think Soda was Town and, well, I'm partially winning.) Thanks for at least attempting to help me understand.
Whiskers = Actually closest to rational thought - but I simply don't understand why I got put in that one group.
Snarky = Thinks the case "sounds good"

Throw me a bone here.

...and that You = Thor, Snarky got on for really, really bad reasons, and you're saying he bussed me? I mean, you can go back to that post and you'll find that none of those votes really had any substance to it. Obviously, they weren't all scum, but usually when a wagon is developed based on squadoosh, there's scum trying to wagon on it. We know Snarky was there, but you were one of the diddly-squats of the group as well.

I press you on the case and you come back with VCA about

one votecount

. That is still squadoosh on a stick and you know it. So you went a while in that Day voting me over just that little tidbit of nothingness. I guess I shouldn't have asked for a bone, because that's basically what you threw me, just the bone - no meat.

So I ask again, why would you just dangle a vote on me over essentially nothing?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Meh, meta cases are kinda hard to digest when it's someone you've never played with. I just wanted to see if he busses because he's brought it up quite a few times.

I don't really see the white noise thing. Exaggarations sometimes help people to understand where you are coming from, which is what I think thor was doing with that post.

Still, though, it seems this is what I'm dealing with:
Yabba- seems to really believe what he is saying about ThorScum.
Thor- seems to be trying to make me feel like i'd be stupid to vote him

Not hard to see which seems more town motivated at this point.

[Thor665]

You're saying I don't sound like I believe what I'm saying? Now you are being stupid
Feel free to come at my points - it's not like I haven't made a pot full of very poignant ones in and amongst noting how you'd be stupid for ignoring them. Don't miss the case for the bombasticness, you can still easily have one with the other.

@yabba - I specifically pointed out big interrogations I've done this game. You've specifically avoided talking about that and then just throw the case back up as though it is unassailed. I am unamused.

"That's another way your scumhunting style is anti-Town."

Yeah, not "scummy" huh?
Yeah, and not 'clearly town minded like my town games' Huh?
Oh, wait, my scumhunting is the same, and it *is* town minded, and this is scumYabba trying hard to show me as bad but not being able to show me as scummy. Proceed.
And the "clear scum" on you was Snarky in a cross bus that neither of you actually pushed that hard while me and SA were pushing the cases and having the debate while you sat on the side chortiling 'just as planned' so...yeah. We've each had clear scum on us - I just had clear scum on me claiming SK in lylo which is still headdesking for me because wtf SA?

[Thor665]

@SA - clear point for basic situationaly case between yabba and I (that you'd be stupid to ignore)

He's town (by his own admission) because Snarky bussed him on day 2 (feel free to look over Snark's play and decide for yourself how serious that bus was)
I'm scummy because *clearly* bionic whipped out a strategy that yabba admits he's never seen before to pull a cross bussing action with me.

Occam's Smurfing Razor dude.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Occam's razor doesn't apply when both situations look scum vs town.

[yabbaguy]

SA, our argument is stalemating here on a few points, and I'm frustrated that my scum likelihood is going up, so I'd like to ask you some questions.

1. Do you believe bionic's SK claim is or can be scum bussing?
2. Do you believe Thor's scumhunting is scummy, just anti-Town, or pro-Town?
3. Do you believe the fact that I have failed to post citations is scummy?
4. Do you believe my interaction on Snarky was a two-way bus interaction?
5. Do you believe that Thor is Town because he would've bussed Snarky as scum?
6. Do you believe I am trying to dodge arguments in this conversation? (Thor has felt that I am "pooing my drawers" among other things that I don't want things mentioned.)
7. Why have you declared your confidences now as 60/40?

[Thor665]

Occam's razor doesn't apply when both situations look scum vs town.

Occam's Razor does apply when you agree that the one manuever is common as common can be, and the other is something that no one has seen before (and that no one has bothered managing to explain what bionic's endgame was).

[Sleepless Assassin]

1. If thor is scum, it's a response to a bus. If thor is town, it's a weird last ditch effort to save himself
2. It appears pro town. All I can say is how it appears though because I don't know his alignment.
3. No.
4. It doesn't look that way to me, but it's still possible.
5. No.
6. No.
7. Most likely because thor is a very persuasive person which says more about his personality than his alignment. I'm pretty sure I'm about to hammer him in the next day or two.

Thor, cross bussing on day 2 and refusing to entertain the idea of joining a 3 man wagon on town late in the day isn't exactly "common as common can be".

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm getting tempted to just vote again.

[Sleepless Assassin]

The day we lynched 65784934903, bio seems to have an attitude of "I'll lynch thor if I have to but I really don't wanna. Here's why whiskers is scummier". He avoids the 6755834933 wagon (whether yabba or thor is scum) because it built quickly and he didn't want to be the guy that hammered it.

[PeregrineV]

Vote Count 6-5

(as of Post 13)

Thor665 (1)

- yabbaguy

yabbaguy (1)

- Thor665

Not Voting (1)

- Sleepless Assassin

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch

Deadline: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12noon CST

Prods:

None

V/LAs:

None

Replacing:

No one

[Thor665]

Thor, cross bussing on day 2 and refusing to entertain the idea of joining a 3 man wagon on town late in the day isn't exactly "common as common can be".

Dude. He has stated a meta case as "this game that I'll mention" and never bothered to actually produce evidence therein.
Please, FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME, tell me, what was bionic's plan, as scum, to get his buddy lynched while claiming SK? You see the scum win there? You see a scum win by him getting me lynched if I'm town? His play makes sense as an SK, and his play makes sense as scum if I'm not his buddy, but it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANY OTHER WAY.
Also, just because I'm a charming bastich doesn't actually automatically weaken my chance to be scum - you can't say my arguments are just persuasive because I'm personable - my arguments are persuasive BECAUSE THEY'RE FLAMING TRUTH IN TWELVE FOOT LETTERS!

Why is yabba town?
Why is yabba town?
Why is yabba town?

Oh my gawd - while we're at it, why is Thor scum? "Hurrr, defended Snarky" is about as far opposite of logical scum play as you can get, and I've clearly stated my meta goes even further in the other direction, and I note that NOBODY has managed to produce anything otherwise (because it's TRUE!).

You need to write these cases down and post them - I'll even make a sacred vow not to comment on them at all till after you do make your lynch choice. But you need to write them down and see your own logic reflected back at you, because that will make it painfully apparent where the holes are.

[Thor665]

Heck, I just want that Thor=scum and yabba=town case in writing so I can at least justify to myself if you do lynch me that you actually ever engaged your brain in making this decision. Because I still think your perception of both cases is around the brilliance of a not-so-bright rock and you're dorking around with preconceived ideas and not actually breaking down the evidence and asking serious questions about it.

There's a reason I've been asking you these same questions since this whole spiel started - I seriously do not believe you're looking for answers, you're just sitting there reading this debate between pre built goggles of cases you vaguely feel are right but can't particularly put into words why. STOP THAT! Pretend you just replaced into the game, write out your cases again. If Thor=scum STILL makes sense at that stage then bloody well hammer me already, but at least do the rest of the town a favor and prove that you went through the motions of cognitive consideration on this one.

[Thor665]

@Yabba - and if that doesn't get him to do it, then you picked the endgame crowd way better then I gave you credit for earlier, apologies.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hmm. Looking back at whiskers, I think she'd have hammered Thor pretty quick had she been alive today. Makes more sense that she was killed by Thor than yabba, who she barely mentioned except to occasionally say he was town.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Grimm pretty clearly saw Throscum and yabbatown before he died too.