Excalibur [Endgame]

[Dunnstral]

Gladiate MariaR

What happened to me? What about Elsa? You're all over the place here dude.

What is going on with you this game?

I can have multiple scum reads, and my reads can change.

It's called progression of thought.

There is none for your MariaR read

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmm don’t like how Dunn built up to that vote

[Dunnstral]

I don't care what you don't like, you can't vote for me right now

[DVa]

Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.

mmm spicy

Where were you hiding this Gamma during Witches Ball?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't care what you don't like, you can't vote for me right now

Ahaha this is such scum
VOTE: MariaR
I’m not voting with Dunn

[Dunnstral]

You sat there.

And said you would lynch me.

Without really calling me scum.

Or pushing me in any hard way.

That is not what town maria would do.

she did that in the ball game too from my memory though.

^^^^^^^^
LEGIT I CALLED YOU SCUM AND LET YOU GET LYNCHED JUST LAST GAME THE FK YOU TALKING ABOUT LOL
Dunn can vouch

Maria definitely thought the Firebringer duo had scum in that game and was wanting them gone

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.

mmm spicy

Where were you hiding this Gamma during Witches Ball?

I didn’t have anyone trying to take cheap shots at me that game.

[DVa]

You don't think Dunn would bus d1?

[Dunnstral]

No way town LLD duels me here without trying to talk to me more.
Although I must say this'll be fun let's go fellow knight~

Agree with the first line

And out of the corner of my eye I see Gamma is freaking out about something in pedit

[Dunnstral]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

He wasn't in that game so this reasoning only holds for saying it's a bad idea

Didn’t I already disprove that to you

You were asking questions on things from post ~250 when we were in the 900's in current posts so I'm not sure why you're taking this stance with me now

Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.

Not sure what you're talking about

I feel like you were complaining about me responding to past things instead of current ones when it's something I've seen you do this game

I don't know how that escalates to "I'm gladiating you tomorrow"

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't think Dunn would bus d1?

Maybe? I think my last time playing with Scumstral was Terror in the City.

[Gamma Emerald]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

He wasn't in that game so this reasoning only holds for saying it's a bad idea

Didn’t I already disprove that to you

You were asking questions on things from post ~250 when we were in the 900's in current posts so I'm not sure why you're taking this stance with me now

Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.

Not sure what you're talking about

I feel like you were complaining about me responding to past things instead of current ones when it's something I've seen you do this game

I don't know how that escalates to "I'm gladiating you tomorrow"

That’s not what that was at all
I was thinking I’d proven UT was in BoR to you already, then I checked your posts and realized your thread reading was strictly linear til then

[Dunnstral]

LLD is trying to creature the illusion that she was gonna win any duel so people go "oh yeah why would she dual maria as scum here it makes no sense"
When the reality is she was losing almost if not every dual she was in. So the only play scum her can make that makes sense is a risky one. That being me. In fact she went after me me right after I said I'd side with elsa

Yeah I saw that

I guess my problem is that LLD makes this play as either alignment and I'm having a hard time discerning Maria's alignment

My gut says scum maria but I dont know why. LLD can you sell me on it plz. Something other than "read her"

Scummy post regardless of my read on Maria/LLD

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?

I could see you flipping scum yes but I would rather see you go for the sword then dual.

I find it interesting you want me to duel day 1. I think that seems strictly suboptimal, don't you?

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the dual you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

And this was really weird coming from you - she's going to be pushed so might as well lynch her anyway? What? There's NO WAY you're actually thinking like this... Like I know there's not

Ok, so for starters here's someone who knows Maria very well saying that her behaviour doesn't match her norm, and it doesn't. Maria has been doing this weird "I want LLD to have the sword" and "I will vote LLD to die" thing and this is the culmination of it.

Yeah but I also said she was town before this and I agreed with what she was saying

I'm not scumreading her right now

[Ariane]

Hey all, I'm really really sorry but I'm requesting replacement, had no idea how quickly large games went and there's a significant chance I won't be able to keep up/catch back up. Wanted to bail now rather than when it was even longer for the sake of replacements. Sorry again and good luck!

[Varsoon]

Confirming any player to claim the sword in advance, is basically a death warrant if they’re town.

Not necessarily...!

If we use it on scummy players, then at some point scum is going to have to stop killing them or the scum kill just becomes an extra lynch. Of course that does give scum a measure of agency in who does end up with the sword (a valid argument against this plan that Varsoon neglected to point out)

uuuuughhhh this is why I hate talking to you

Picking a player to claim the sword is an awful idea. If scum are actually threatened by town offing its weaker players and the game being 'nightless', they just let the claim go through and then the whole claiming thing is off the table unless that town player literally kills themselves and even then we won't be able to retry until the following night.

Also I still think most people going for sword is important because then it actually gives us a chance arthur gets sword instead of ends up being the mook who doesn't and, on top of that, keeps scum from being able to plan their kill around swordclaimers.

2. The problem with 'use the sword to cop players' is that it only works if both town and scum agree to play around it AND if we fail to catch scum with it the first time, it literally won't work because the sword won't become unclaimed unless the townie that claimed it suicides.

If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

I've been addressing this issue SINCE I BEGAN TALKING ABOUT THE MECHANIC
Still catching up but I'm so done with S_S right now.

[Varsoon]

So I need to re-read because I thought LLD either didn't understand the mechanic or was reaction-gambiting with the gladiate because the rule is
"All matters are settled with duels, not lynches. Each of you may publicly challenge another to a duel, which gladiates the two of you."
Which I, for some reason, interpreted as "You must write, in bold 'I challenge you to a duel [playername]'." to duel someone.
I was really expecting to come back to no VC and be like, "Guys! We aren't in a duel yet!" but it seems like I'm wrong here.
Now that I know intent was actually real, I gotta go read it like that. Gotta say, though, I'm not a fan of how LLD tried to couch this in some scum bussing meta.

[Varsoon]

Hot take:
Isn't a no lynch here actually not a terrible idea for us?
1. It assures we don't accidentally mislynch Arthur
2. It lets us get an extra day if scum hit our BP

That said I am probably still going to vote one way or another.

[Dunnstral]

2. It lets us get an extra day if scum hit our BP

There are way too many factors to rely on scum hitting bp this game

Plus, by this same logic, we can no lynch later. Do you see yourself never voting out maria/lld? That's what you're suggesting right now, because nolynching now only to turn around and gladiate them day 3 doesn't make sense

[Something_Smart]

AWWWW I GET THE PLAN. I'm flattered LLD is scared of town me so she wants people to think we're buddies when she dies to get rid of town me. Aw lld I'm honored ty for choosing me this is really cute

If that's the case, would you be okay with taking the sword tonight?

[Varsoon]

Do you see yourself never voting out maria/lld? That's what you're suggesting right now, because nolynching now only to turn around and gladiate them day 3 doesn't make sense

That said I am probably still going to vote one way or another.

Radical reading comprehension, Batman

[Something_Smart]

It's just a bad post in general, not just because it's wrong, but because I can't figure out HOW he could arrive at that conclusion looking at only posts in this thread

Man, it's almost as if I have experience with LLD outside this game.

[Varsoon]

I really, really hate that you're trying to justify a ton of your reads by "I have experience with this player" or "I don't have experience with that player"
It does nothing to produce read clarity for anyone other than you and is incredibly easy to hide behind as scum.
Again, I think this is a fundamental difference between how we both approach the game of mafia, but I can't stand it.

[Something_Smart]

Hi Varsoon
A large number of arguments does not equal a strong argument. 1101 is true but doesn't matter because claim strategies are ALWAYS off the table after someone claims unless they suicide. 920 was disproved by math. 774 and 216 are true but the only people who've expressed willingness to mess it up are you and maybe UT.

Look at it this way-- if LLD is scum and Maria town, LLD clearly challenged Maria to get rid of her. If Maria claims the sword, they'll get the exact opposite of that, unless they kill her-- and then they've killed someone they were trying to mislynch and the sword is still unclaimed. Either scum give us a free mislynch, or a strong town player that scum wanted to eliminate gets the sword, or Maria is also scum and is outed and the sword remains unclaimed.

If they kill Maria or if she's scum, then we can do a free-for-all the next night. And if LLD is town, we can probably just do a free-for-all and then hang Maria.

This sounds like a win-win to me. What do you think?

[Something_Smart]

I really, really hate that you're trying to justify a ton of your reads by "I have experience with this player" or "I don't have experience with that player"
It does nothing to produce read clarity for anyone other than you and is incredibly easy to hide behind as scum.
Again, I think this is a fundamental difference between how we both approach the game of mafia, but I can't stand it.

I'm not trying to justify READS, just OPINIONS. Me saying Jay challenging LLD was suicide wasn't a read, it was a prediction based on my experience with both of them.

If I give a read based on meta, I'll explain the exact behaviors that are similar or different so people can understand why.

[Varsoon]

So it's either:
1. Both are scum, best situation, very unlikely since LLD would just wait for Elsa to gladiate anyway and would be aware a bus gladiate here costs both slots because of Excalibur.
2. One is scum, good situation, also unlikely just off of odds and what makes sense for play, but you're the one with experience; does LLD-scum gladiate town here despite knowing Excalibur guilties her tonight?
3. Both are town, awful situation, not a win-win at all, as we mislynch one and even if we browbeat the other to get the sword, scum can either kill there if they want or avoid it if they're not worried about Maria.

I don't see how it's a win-win either way.
I do agree that LLD challenged Maria to get rid of her because a D1 challenge absolutely condemns the other slot no matter what and either scum-confirm or town-confirms them due to Excalibur.