Mini 1930: Titus's Old Music Playlist Mafia

[Drixx]

The problem with suggesting I am gambiting a doc claim coming off a no kill is that I

literally crumbed to MariaR yesterday that I had docced her instead of Famethyst

... and Famethyst was my first choice but I talked myself out of it.

[MariaR]

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

[Penn and Teller]

The problem with suggesting I am gambiting a doc claim coming off a no kill is that I

literally crumbed to MariaR yesterday that I had docced her instead of Famethyst

... and Famethyst was my first choice but I talked myself out of it.

I don't understand what you mean by this at all, to be quite honest. What crumb? And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

[Drixx]

find it very weird that twice the person that mbc has chosen to have an ability used on, they end up dying before the ability could be used.


I am also

v/la through the weekend

I'm starting to think I can kill with it
I was actually hoping that Fam would be protected.

... so much

Sad. So much Sad. (Because Fam wasn't protected). Then doctor emoji and death emoji, which is the emoji version of my role.

---

Just because the mod posted that a particular modifier would be applied a particular way in this game does not actually confirm Zach. Zach gambiting has to at least be considered, but probably Zach is off the table today. The problem in that situation is that if he's gambiting and MBC is his partner, then assuming he's honest for today always results in a loss.

As far as my recollection goes, I believe we only had a single 2 death night. If Zach is scum and had an extra kill to spend, then his team basically played perfect. Killing one of his own team basically makes his vig claim unassailable. He explains away the lack of other deaths by claiming the loyal modifier. Then it hits MYLO and he puts me and MBC as his living targets that didn't die, "clearing" us. I know I'm clear but obviously believe I should have died to his shot (and still do; mechanically speaking the loyal modifier is a "means" of preventing my death, so I should be dead and the ruling doesn't make sense with the wording of my role PM).

So yeah ... Zach could totally be gambiting and if we believed that the question would be whether he would put his remaining partner in the innocent list?


On the other hand, we could decide that the possibility of scum being given an extra kill in a mini is low, and scum using it to kill a teammate is even lower (but not unheard of, if anyone was paying attention to a game that just ended where I was in hydra), to the point where we discard it into the paranoia pile, then:

MBC, Zach and myself are clear.
MariaR has strong evidence to be clear since I doctored her and we had no death.

That makes Robb and P&T the scum among us.

It's

plausible

for sure that MariaR caught my crumb (it wasn't exactly subtle) and worked out that I had chosen to doctor her over Famethyst. In that case, witholding a kill to make me think she is town is a great move. It doesn't change the number of mislynches needed to win, so it's effectively a no cost gambit to run.

So basically it seems to me that scum is either {MariaR, P&T} or {Robb, P&T} with an outside chance that {MariaR, Robb} put on a bickering show in thread as scum theatre for us. Then there's the paranoia scenario.

I think those are all the possible worlds we could be living in.

I think P&T is the right choice for today. I think that if that is correct, then I'm unlikely to be around, but I just laid out all the possibilities so it shouldn't be hard to sit down and decide what is most probable.

Poke holes in it if you can.

[Drixx]

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

Because I doctored you and nobody died?

[MariaR]

*ahem*

SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP

[Penn and Teller]

Drixx:

And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

In no way did you explain why this isn't true. Your crumb doesn't confirm you. Your 1375 doesn't make sense as an argument. How does you crumbing "doc that didn't protect Famethyst" somehow exclude you from no killing as scum to lend credence to a doctor fullclaim the next day?

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

Because I doctored you and nobody died?

I think she's referring to earlier - you said you doctored her the night Famethyst died.


PEdit: Yes?

[MariaR]

Drixx:

And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

In no way did you explain why this isn't true. Your crumb doesn't confirm you. Your 1375 doesn't make sense as an argument. How does you crumbing "doc that didn't protect Famethyst" somehow exclude you from no killing as scum to lend credence to a doctor fullclaim the next day?

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

Because I doctored you and nobody died?

I think she's referring to earlier - you said you doctored her the night Famethyst died.


PEdit: Yes?

This.

[Drixx]

*ahem*

SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP
SCUM MOST LIKELY HAVE A BP

Why are you attached to BP when we have no rational way to know WHAT the mod gave the scum team? An extra kill used in the gambit I described as something Zach could have done is just as plausible. I don't understand the BP thing. I suppose if we assume a BP, that moves MBC into the pool?

Drixx:

And if you're gambiting scum then doesn't it make sense to crumb doc before doing a no kill, as part of your setup for the MyLo gambit?

In no way did you explain why this isn't true. Your crumb doesn't confirm you. Your 1375 doesn't make sense as an argument. How does you crumbing "doc that didn't protect Famethyst" somehow exclude you from no killing as scum to lend credence to a doctor fullclaim the next day?

Why did you tr me so hard drixx?

Because I doctored you and nobody died?

I think she's referring to earlier - you said you doctored her the night Famethyst died.


PEdit: Yes?

The only way I'm not clear is if Zach is lying. If you believe Zach is lying, then say so. If not, then he clears me and I think my confusion at how he could possibly clear me with a killing ability should either make you firmly town read me or else believe I deserve an Oscar for best acting.

Like ... pushing me is basically saying Zach is lying and I'm his partner.


@MariaR - Night 2? Just gut. You weren't my first instinct but something made me swap to you. Last night, after the DD lynch tho? I town read you enough to doc protect you because your frustration at the DD lynch reads exceptionally genuine. It doesn't look like scum positioning. You were legit trying to save him from mislynch. That's frankly a considerably better reason than I have for anyone else in the game (apart from if I trust Zach and believe MBC is clear, which I apparently shouldn't believe even if I believe zach because you seem super sure of a BP for {reasons}?)


An observation: Zach votes MariaR in RVS and says voting for scum buddy. MariaR later made a post (which I quoted earlier) referring to him as scum pal. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. Just saying.

[Penn and Teller]

The only way I'm not clear is if Zach is lying. If you believe Zach is lying, then say so. If not, then he clears me and I think my confusion at how he could possibly clear me with a killing ability should either make you firmly town read me or else believe I deserve an Oscar for best acting.

Like ... pushing me is basically saying Zach is lying and I'm his partner.

You're trying very hard to redirect me onto Zach, which is scummy as all hell considering the vig is our only chance to save this if we mislynch today. I also don't really appreciate people telling me why I should be townreading them, I'd recommend not doing that.

There is a very simple way for Zach to be telling the truth and you to be lying - I believe you are BP scum, and this resulted in a false clear.

Why are you attached to BP when we have no rational way to know WHAT the mod gave the scum team? An extra kill used in the gambit I described as something Zach could have done is just as plausible. I don't understand the BP thing. I suppose if we assume a BP, that moves MBC into the pool?

There being BP scum makes a lot of sense to balance a vig that is essentially a supercop. It works as a godfather.

It is

much

more plausible than scum getting an extra kill one night and choosing to use it on their own partner. I have no idea why you would believe otherwise. Yes, this puts MBC into the pool, but it also puts you in as well. How do you not realise this?

@Mod: Sorry but would you be able to prod MBC? He's been gone four days.

[Robbnva]

That makes Robb and P&T the scum among us.

Except I'm not scum so what else you got?

[Robbnva]

So can somebody tell me why NL isn't a good option here?

We NL or Lynch drixx is basically dead anyway.

Zach shoots tonight.

Seems safer than gambling with a lynch

[Robbnva]

An extra kill used in the gambit I described as something Zach could have done is just as plausible.

so you think scum got an extra kill and they decided to use it to off a scum buddy? they can just take the win if that's the case cause that is either really stupid or really brilliant

[Zachstralkita]

We assume bp or a scum "protective" cause my role basically gives free clears and hits guilties for fucks sake


It's the exact same shit Drixx pushed me for cause my role was too "powerful" and Titus " wouldn't" do it

An extra kill used in the gambit I described as something Zach could have done is just as plausible.

so you think scum got an extra kill and they decided to use it to off a scum buddy? they can just take the win if that's the case cause that is either really stupid or really brilliant

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Penn and Teller]

Why are we letting drixx get away with i docced maria so we both clear. If ur scum u nokill fakeclaim doc and its an ez "clear". My other half already pushed scum!BP thing and Im in agreement there. I just dont get why Drixx seems to not be getting flak for claiming a clear that would be super ez for scum to do. I mean ive seen scum do it b4 to set up doc claim or so they can set up a doc claimZ

-ntrp

[Zachstralkita]

I literally have no idea who to trust right now. certainly can't trust the 2 "near confirmed town" who have been acting shady all game

oh my god

[Robbnva]

Why are we letting drixx get away with i docced maria so we both clear.

zach has "cleared" drixx

Drixx claims he blocked maria which would make her the mafia kill

[Drixx]

No. I doctored MariaR. P&T is scum. All you have to do is read his posts from the past 12 hours or so.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

I need to read this today

[Robbnva]

No. I doctored MariaR. P&T is scum. All you have to do is read his posts from the past 12 hours or so.

yeah that is what I meant, you doctored her

[Penn and Teller]

Why are we letting drixx get away with i docced maria so we both clear.

zach has "cleared" drixx

Drixx claims he blocked maria which would make her the mafia kill

But we think (and so do Zach and Maria apparently) that there might be a BP/godfather type scum role, making the clear potentially false. It would also be trivially easy for scum!Drixx to no kill and claim a successful protection was the reason.

No. I doctored MariaR. P&T is scum. All you have to do is read his posts from the past 12 hours or so.

Your arguments get steadily worse! I've explained multiple times why we don't believe you're 100% cleared.
If you think we're scum, for the love of god, give something more coherent than "P&T r scum bcuz posts!!"

What in our recent posts makes us scum?

Why do you insist on talking past us and ignoring our points in favour of repeating the same position that

I don't believe?

Like for god's sake work with me! Why should I believe you?

Why do you refuse to consider the possibility of BP in the scumteam?

Because it seems like the only explanation is that it makes your arguments all fall down and suddenly it's only your word holding them together!

Like to be so ridiculously blind even when making statements like

I think those are all the possible worlds we could be living in.

and the self-analysis in post 320 about how you pay attention to detail and think rationally just leaves me totally gobsmacked.


In addition:

And given the fact that MariaR dropped a gloating tell about Famethyst

Please quote me MariaR's "gloating tell".

I do like checking my sources, even if I sometimes leave it a bit late.

I need to read this today

Yes.

[Drixx]

MBC was the one who dropped the gloating, and I already quoted it on this page. You're obviously cherry picking and if you're cherry picking, you're not being genuine.

[Penn and Teller]

the frustration is too much to handle

The problem with suggesting I am gambiting a doc claim coming off a no kill is that I

literally crumbed to MariaR yesterday that I had docced her instead of Famethyst

... and Famethyst was my first choice but I talked myself out of it.

My goodness I am cherry picking aren't I?

I forgot to include the part where you explicitly said you were crumbing

to Maria

, hence why I thought you were definitely responding to her because in no way shape or form did your crumb insinuate she was your protection target instead, though 1375, quoted above in full, suggests it did. I can go and find more quotes to back up why I believe this, if you like.

I wanted you to quote it because she had made a couple of posts since daystart, and I wanted to see which of them was supposedly the tell. "Cherry picking" is a weak defense against my question, considering you mixed up two players and never corrected the error. And that's somehow my fault for assuming you meant what you said and asking you to provide evidence?

Why did you describe MBC's post as a "gloating tell"? Why was it gloating?

---

And... you know... if you wanted to take off the blinders for a second and stop

cherry picking what you respond to

, you could also answer the other questions I bolded!

What in our recent posts makes us scum?

...

Why do you refuse to consider the possibility of BP in the scumteam?

[Drixx]

There's nothing productive in engaging with you. You are in survival mode and making exceptionally implausible assertions to try and make a case that I'm scum.

For me to be scum basically requires Zach to be scum. Do you believe Zach is scum?

I mean ... I literally was assuming Zach was lying when he claimed to have aimed a vig shot at me and it failed to kill me. To the point where the mod had to come in and contradict her own wording and explain that the modifier somehow would prevent shooting at town, even if that town has a modifier that says any kill ability aimed at them cannot be stopped "by any means". I still believe that by the wording given that I should be dead.

Occam's razor. Use it.


Like ... you clearly read my post where I laid out who is clear if we assume Zach is being honest and not running a gambit, and why MariaR should be considered mostly clear, and thus you know that you ended up in the scum pool by PoE. I didn't base it upon any posts you made, which makes you demanding I tell you where you slipped up just a distraction. Smoke and mirrors.

Your REACTION to being caught by PoE has been nothing but scummy. You are giving off a demonstration of grasping at any straws you can to try and get out of the box. So first you got labeled as probscum by PoE and now you are making posts which appear to be frenetic attempts to escape the box.


And finally: stop putting words in my mouth. I never once "refused to consider the possibility of BP in the scumteam". I asked MariaR why she is so

certain

that scum must have a BP instead of some other role. That's literally the very definition of considering the possibility ... I'm literally asking for the reasoning for it.



P.S. - it's common courtesy to sign your posts when in hydra so people know which head they're talking to. The only plausible reason not to sign (other than to just annoy people) is to avoid meta reading.

[Zachstralkita]

It's happening.

For me to be scum basically requires Zach to be scum. Do you believe Zach is scum?

I mean ... I literally was assuming Zach was lying when he claimed to have aimed a vig shot at me and it failed to kill me. To the point where the mod had to come in and contradict her own wording and explain that the modifier somehow would prevent shooting at town, even if that town has a modifier that says any kill ability aimed at them cannot be stopped "by any means". I still believe that by the wording given that I should be dead.

Occam's razor. Use it.

Except this is rather faulty. The kicker is that you put Occam's Razor at the end of it LOL