Mini 567 - iPick - Game Over: The Stunning Conclusion

[Kison]

Aims as in night targets? Claimed night targets only or including my own results?

[Lawrencelot]

Yes. Just those that are claimed.

[Guardian]

Vote Count 33

The TV Reads:

Rogueben[2] (Kison)
Kison[1] (Rogueben)

3 to lynch

[Kison]

~~Night One~~
Xtoxm -> Vollkan
Lawrencelot -> Vollkan
Shaft.ed -> Rogueben
Adel -> Cicero/Kison
Rogueben -> Paradoxombie
Xyzzy -> Shaft.ed
Kison -> Shaft.ed
Paradoxombie -> Shaft.ed
NabakovNabakov -> <No Claim?>
Vollkan -> <No Claim?>
hasdgfas -> <No Claim?>

~~Night Two~~
Xtoxm -> Shaft.ed
Lawrencelot -> Adel
Shaft.ed -> hasdgfas
Adel -> Shaft.ed
Rogueben -> hasdgfas
Kison -> Lawrencelot
Hasdgfas - <No Claim?>
Paradoxombie - <No Claim?>

~~Night Three~~
Rogueben -> Kison
Xtoxm -> Lawrencelot
Kison -> Rogueben
Lawrencelot -> Rogueben

[Kison]

Those are claimed night actions only.

[Kison]

Assuming the PR's were triggered the night before they first appeared, this would be the triggered times for the four we've seen so far :

~~Night One~~
Shafted - Nibbler Comments
Shafted - Haiku
Cicero - Outrageous lies about Guardian

~~Night Three~~
Lawrencelot - Current

[Lawrencelot]

You mean Night Two. Thanks for the

information

. I looked for things with the pegs too, but could not find it. Who knows who changed the pegs each time?

[Kison]

I have no clue about the pegs.

And I'm pretty sure those would be Night One - the one which came right after Day One. Didn't those 3 PR's show up during Day Two?

[Xtoxm]

Whatever Tox-Tox. I'm so incompetent because I'm surprised at a subtle game mechanic. Good thinking there, stud.

It's not been at all subtle, it's been quite obvious throughout the game, as well as discussed on D1, if you read it.

[Kison]

It's not been at all subtle, it's been quite obvious throughout the game, as well as discussed on D1, if you read it.

Dude, I have been in this game for a grand total of two weeks. Give me a break.

Like I said, Toxic boy, I missed that mechanic, and it was not obvious to me. If you think I'm a horrible, incompetent player because of that, then your insult has been heard. But let's move on. You made your point. I made mine.

[Xtoxm]

Like I said, Toxic boy

Lol, I like the sound of that.

If you think I'm a horrible, incompetent player because of that, then your insult has been heard.

That's not what I was doing at all. I'm not trying to insult. I think you are more scum for it. And now you are trying to twist it.

I'm very close to voting you, only haven't incase it counts as 2 and lynches you.

[Kison]

That's not what I was doing at all. I'm not trying to insult. I think you are more scum for it. And now you are trying to twist it.

You never made

that

clear. And since I think this is an absurd thing to base my alignment on considering the fact that I am

not

a consistent player in this game, would have to wade through 50 pages(1,250 posts) thoroughly in the short time I've been here, I think you are looking far too deep into this subject. So yes, I interpreted it as an insult because I don't quite understand why you are so bent on this. It was a very simple, ultimately harmless, mistake in a very COMPLEX game, and one that Lawrencelot, proven Townie, also made. So no, this does not indicate that I am scum. Contrary to what you also said previously, I have been paying very close attention to this game, which is evident by the posts I have made so far.

But I don't know what you'd have me say. The game is up to you and Lawrencelot. If you truly think I am scum because I missed the origin of Rogueben's double vote(which has absolutely no benefit to me as scum over me as town), then have a go at it. I can't really convince you of the idiocy of what you're suggesting beyond what I already have.

[Xtoxm]

Ok, apologies if you thought I was insulting you, that was not my intention.

It was a very simple, ultimately harmless, mistake in a very COMPLEX game, and one that Lawrencelot, proven Townie, also made.

No, it was not the same mistake.

And yes, it is ultimatley harmless, but it shows that you weren't paying attention to when Law did it.

[Kison]

Ok, apologies if you thought I was insulting you, that was not my intention.

It's fine. I wasn't exactly shedding tears anyway.

And yes, it is ultimatley harmless, but it shows that you weren't paying attention to when Law did it.

No. Xtoxm, that's not true. I did catch Rogueben's two-for-one vote when Lawrencelot did it. What I did not catch was the CAUSE of the double vote. In other words, I knew Rogueben was receiving two votes per voter(or whatever) but I hadn't attributed it to Guardian's comment about Rogueben's "funeral arrangements" the previous day. I thought that had to do with the proceeding Night and dismissed it from that point on.

[Xtoxm]

No, worst case is we fucking lose because you told me to vote Adel. If I get a penalty vote then it will take two votes to lynch me once you're dead.

[Xtoxm]

What is the alternative win condition?

[Xtoxm]

vote Kison

[Kison]

What does your quote prove? I knew that Adel received two votes. But I did not know it was a consistent theme as you suggested. It happened once. When Guardian made the Rogueben comment, I did not know the same thing would happen.

So again. What does that prove?

[Kison]

"It happened once

by that time since I replaced in

"

[Lawrencelot]

I think I understand what you are saying here. That is that if Kison targeted you he wouldn't have known which of the targets was your target. However if he had targeted you I believe he would have received the following:

Lawrencelot <--> Xtoxm
Lawrencelot <--> Rogueben

I believe this is pretty easy to work out who targeted who. The logical choice for Xtoxm last night was to target Lawrencelot.

That leaves Lawrencelot targeting me.

From there all he has to claim is that I targeted Lawrencelot and that implies that I am scum.

All this assumes that Kison is scum now, but I am more sure of that than I have been of pegging scum in any game I've played before.

I spot a wrong thing here. What is in bold does not have to be true, as he did not know I had a thing that needs an aim. Or did he?

Kison

: I think you are scum.

Answer

this:

What is the alternative win condition?

Xtoxm

: what if there are just two scum?

Rogueben

fits kill role well, but not plain scum.

[Xtoxm]

I doubt there are just 2 scum, tbh. I've only seen it once before in a 12p. And the game had an SK.

And there was a town modkilled pre-day 1. I really think it's just a normal scum team, tbh.

[Xtoxm]

What is in bold does not have to be true, as he did not know I had a thing that needs an aim. Or did he?

You'd already claimed your historical disfigurement thingy by then, so yeh we all knew.

[Kison]

I spot a wrong thing here. What is in bold does not have to be true, as he did not know I had a thing that needs an aim. Or did he?

I'm not sure how this twists your entire perspective of my alignment. Again, I am going to point to the fact that I targeted you with my mystery role during Night Two, right after I replaced in. Did you receive a PR Day Three? No, you did not. Did I

actually

target you Night Two? Yes, I did. How do we know this? Because the results I provided were accurate, prior to you ever claiming a night targeting ability.

So again, I am going to ask, what has twisted your perspective of my alignment?

The alternate win condition : I guess I have no choice. I'm tired of explaining the lack of benefit of my your knowing this. But the game's out of my hands. Your call, my doing.

The win condition is a series of targeting or "aims" as Lawrencelot likes to call it. This makes sense given my role. I previously said I did not have a role specifically designed to prevent this condition from being met. This is true. My role allows me to obtain some insight as to the progress of this condition, but I am largely left in the dark and am forced to rely on the information given by others. However, I do have a part to play in this condition, which would somewhat allow for the prevention of this condition being met, but it's easily overridden by the actions of others(and has been). This'll make sense in a moment.

The condition in my own words has two parts to it :

1) Link must target each aspect of the Triforce
2) One aspect of the Triforce must target Link.

This has been completed in part as far as I can tell. Shaft.ed targeted Rogueben N1, according to both my results and what he has claimed. This completed the controllable aspect of this condition. Rogueben's results, as far as he claims, indicate he has targeted only me. However, I know this to be false at least in light of Night Three. His other two results are said to have hit two non Triforce members, but again, I cannot trust this especially given that I know he is scum.

Courage -> Link

Wisdom -> Courage

Power -> Courage

Power -> Link

*Link -> Power

I targeted him last night because I knew that our side of the condition had already been met. My targeting him should not affect the outcome.

This is why I was initially reluctant to roleclaim. If any Triforce/Link was scum, my results and/or knowledge of the condition gives insight into the level of completion of this condition. Guess what? Ding! Ding! Ding! It did. Guess what else? This doesn't help us, just like I said. This is especially bothering given that around the time Rogueben initially claimed Link, Xyzzy and Shafted hinted at having knowledge of Link.

In reality it is unlikely that this condition will be met. This requires Rogueben to have targeted Xyzzy during Night One and Shafted during Night Two. It's just as likely he tried hitting Shafted Night One and never had the opportunity to try for Xyzzy. But that doesn't matter. This information does

absolutely nothing

to benefit us aside from giving a heads up, yet that's too obvious of a play. Why give me insight of a win condition when I could prevent it from revealing it? Imagine if I'd revealed this yesterday, or better yet, Cicero on Day Two. No gain. Only loss.

So have a go at it. I'd still like Lawrencelot to actually think through what I said earlier.

[Kison]

Kison targets Lawrencelot N2.
Kison provides accurate results D3.
Lawrencelot does not receive PR D3.
Lawrencelot does not die N2.

Kison claims he targeted Rogueben N3.
Rogueben does not receive PR D4.
Lawrencelot receives PR D4.
In order for Kison to give PR to Lawrencelot as scum, he would have to have the ability to PR, kill, & watch/track.

Rogueben failed his N1 kill.
Rogueben failed to provide a unique kill N2, implying the possibility of failure.
Rogueben failed his N3 kill.
Rogueben's claimed target contradicts that of Kison's results.

My role is proven not only to be valid, but not to be accompanied by post restrictions. Rogueben's role has failed three times out of three so far. I don't really know how much clearer this can be. He's scum.

[Xtoxm]

Well i'm thinking I gave him the PR, if anything, atm.