Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[TheSkeward]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

While I agree that lurking and being unhelpful is scummy, I don't think it's scummy to be suspicious of someone else for exhibiting the same behavior you yourself are exhibiting. Hypocritical, sure, but not scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

I dont like the push on dana which is screaming easy target all over his head. Thats the basic premise of one of Monkey and Karma is scum.

I dont think lurking and being unhelpful are conclusive scumtells, btw. Do you?

Lately I've just seen so many lurking, unhelpful people flip scum, but it seems to be against current site meta to lynch these kinds of people. I agree that D1 lurker lynches usually aren't helpful. I think being unhelpful is generally more indicative of scum than general lurking.

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me, but it seems I just didn't give Anon enough time after his original post to back it up.

[Scott Brosius]

Also may not have internet until Friday.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day One Vote Count: #6

5 - MonkeyMan576 (TheSkeward, inHimshallibe, VasudeVa, Karma, Anon)
3 - inHimshallibe (danakillsu, muh316, Zang)
3 - muh316 (Shadow Dancer, ekiM, Scott Brosius)
1 - danakillsu (MonkeyMan576)

With

12

alive it takes

7

to lynch, and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is July 2 at 4:00 p.m. PST.

Not Voting - 0 - Nobody

[muh316]

sorry guys i just wanted to get in a post before they start replacing me
but im gonna write something tomorrow its really late right now.

[Zang]

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

This is suspicous. There were three votes on Dana when he posted the post that you quoted (one of which was yours). And how could he be scumhunting until a few posts before this it was the RVS.

The whole case against Dana is flawed. And I see almost nothing from karma except "He is scum, vote for him!".

Unvote
Vote:Karma

In all your post you attack Monkeyman. Yet your vote is on Karma.

That's because karma did almost nothing but saying that he was scummy and told people to vote for him. To me that's scummier because at least monkeyman had reasons, even if they were flawed.

[VasudeVa]

@Scott: What inHim participation?

---

Monkey, muh, inHim, SD and ekiM continue to fail to deliver. Some mod intervention would be nice. Aside from that, is there anything we players can do to encourage participation? >.>

---

Vote: Zang

I am not convinced with your reasoning. Why pick Karma over Monkey? Your attack on Monkeyman seems stronger than your attack on Karma but you voted Karma over Monkey.

[Zang]

I am not convinced with your reasoning. Why pick Karma over Monkey? Your attack on Monkeyman seems stronger than your attack on Karma but you voted Karma over Monkey.

do I have to explain it again?

I didn't attack monkeyman, I attacked his accusations. I felt karma was scummier because he didn't do anything besides say that he was scummy.

[muh316]

ok guys heres my scum list
monkeyman
zang
karma
inhim

I'm not so sure about zang but there might be a chance of them three to be scum as a team. They've been showing lots of scummy behavior and I'm not getting any town reads from any of these guys. And sorry guys about my "gem" its just that I was busy the past few days.

[danakillsu]

Whatever.
@Zang, VasudeVa
If I jumped on the MonkeyMan wagon, would you two finish it off?

[Karma]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: muh316

This is the better option here. Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting, just four names of people whose behavior is scummy. Nice try. Monkey deserves a vig shot though, for scumminess and general uselessness.

Wagon go!

[inHimshallibe]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: muh316

This is the better option here. Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting, just four names of people whose behavior is scummy. Nice try. Monkey deserves a vig shot though, for scumminess and general uselessness.

Wagon go!

I dunno, the fact he posted suspicions was a helpful step.

@all: Sorry, got a new job and adjusting to the schedule of having to wake up early. You should see more evening CST posts from me in the future.

[danakillsu]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: muh316

This is the better option here. Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting, just four names of people whose behavior is scummy. Nice try. Monkey deserves a vig shot though, for scumminess and general uselessness.

Wagon go!

I dunno, the fact he posted suspicions was a helpful step.

@all: Sorry, got a new job and adjusting to the schedule of having to wake up early. You should see more evening CST posts from me in the future.

What you must mean is more helpful than you, because it just reflected the opinions of the town.
@ Karma
I really don't think muh is the lynch for today. Even though he has continued to promise content and hasn't given us any, there are two players (inHim and MonkeyMan) who have actively posted scummy material.

I would suggest that everyone vote for one of those. If you're voting for Karma, please switch to MonkeyMan. Anyone else should decide between the two. This would be the most helpful strategy for town, since if Karma is scum, MonkeyMan is scum with him.

[VasudeVa]

This would be the most helpful strategy for town, since if Karma is scum, MonkeyMan is scum with him.

Explain.

[Zang]

I will be V/LA Friday to Sunday.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, I had some connection and time problems lately, but it's fine now.

OK, dana, that you now do the same - well, I'll call it misinterpretaion for now - on me is something I absolutely do not like! Where do I say I want to lynch

any one

?!

SB: Only player who's posts I really like so far. Not because of actual scum hunting but because he's got his logic straight... He's the only one so far I wouldn't frivoulously D1 lynch...

How about right here? SB is the only one you WOULDN'T lynch. And way to prove that you're scummy by completely ignoring the other things I said in response to you.

OK, I see your point. Really bad choice of words on my part. Lets change it this way: Lynching SB for any reason that is not really really convincing that he is actual scum (which hardly happens D1) would be frivolous.

How have I taken things personally, exactly? I haven't said anyone insulted me, personally. I stated that MonkeyMan baselessly said I wasn't scumhunting, but I never thought of it as a personal attack. And once again, unless you're an alt, I don't know where you get off saying I'm going down the road to VI.

I am not saying you are on the road to VI already, I just said that I see you (over)interpreting things i a way that suggests that you are somehow personally involved. I think it would help if you tried to keep an eye on yourself in this regard.

I also noted this one:

No, don't worry, it pretty much is a "hollow bubble". But it does show that I'm not a VI and don't need to resort to personal attacks, OMGUS, or AtE's.

So if you see no useful content in that whole argument yourself and also claim to have no secondary (p.e. personal) reasons to keep that debate up, then, according to you, you have only knowingly and willingly created a huge bubble of empty posts to appear to town in one way or another. That is kinda scummy, don't you think? I'll keep it in mind until later, I'll have a look at the muh and monkey cases first.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmm... Just from ISOing them I can see nothing prominent. monkey has really little content, I think I have to reread everything in context. Will do it tomorrow.

[VasudeVa]

@SD: Why aren't you changing your vote? Do you still think muh is scum?

[inHimshallibe]

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: muh316

This is the better option here. Continually promising posts, and then delivering us that last post? No scumhunting, just four names of people whose behavior is scummy. Nice try. Monkey deserves a vig shot though, for scumminess and general uselessness.

Wagon go!

I dunno, the fact he posted suspicions was a helpful step.

@all: Sorry, got a new job and adjusting to the schedule of having to wake up early. You should see more evening CST posts from me in the future.

What you must mean is more helpful than you, because it just reflected the opinions of the town.
@ Karma
I really don't think muh is the lynch for today. Even though he has continued to promise content and hasn't given us any, there are two players (inHim and MonkeyMan) who have actively posted scummy material.

I would suggest that everyone vote for one of those. If you're voting for Karma, please switch to MonkeyMan. Anyone else should decide between the two. This would be the most helpful strategy for town, since if Karma is scum, MonkeyMan is scum with him.

It's a shame you can't get over a read.

Also, there's very little chance both Karma and MonkeyMan are scumbuddies.

[danakillsu]

It's a shame you can't get over a read.

Also, there's very little chance both Karma and MonkeyMan are scumbuddies.

It's a shame you can't help me.
On the Karma/MonkeyMan issue, they pretty much teamed up to try to take me down with horrible reasoning. Even if they're NOT scum together, if you think Karma is scummy, you should think MonkeyMan is even scummier for the same reasons. So you shouldn't be trying to lynch Karma.

So if you see no useful content in that whole argument yourself and also claim to have no secondary (p.e. personal) reasons to keep that debate up, then, according to you, you have only knowingly and willingly created a huge bubble of empty posts to appear to town in one way or another. That is kinda scummy, don't you think? I'll keep it in mind until later, I'll have a look at the muh and monkey cases first.

Let me counter these questions with my own question that really gets at the heart of the matter. What would everyone have thought if I said "Hey, Karma, you're stupid. I'm not going to defend myself against you and I'll just allow you to think I'm scum."

[Javert]

Sorry, under wrong account. See next post.

[petroleumjelly]

MonkeyMan576 is being replaced.

[ekiM]

How many times do I have to say that it's not just the playstyle, it's the pattern of votes. He votes for me, calls for more votes for me, jumps off my wagon, and votes for my secondary adversary. That's a scummy flip-flop.

I don't see how changing one's mind is scummy inherently and you haven't explained why this particular change is scummy. If one moves a scum read into the town column looking at who else had pushed that wagon would be logical, seeing as scum are more likely to wagon townies.

@ekiM
btw, why are you voting for a lurker while telling me that lurking isn't a scumtell?

Lurking is a scumtell, and even if it weren't it should be heartily discouraged. Not giving reasoning for all your actions upfront isn't lurking though.

@ekiM: What do you mean by 'Try to encourage there is scum between them'? How is that scummy?

It'd be beneficial for scum to get people to buy into a false dichotomy between two town players.

What would everyone have thought if I said "Hey, Karma, you're stupid. I'm not going to defend myself against you and I'll just allow you to think I'm scum."

I'd have been happy.

---

So I think the dana wagon was bad because it was mostly based on a stylistic consideration. The problem is distinguishing between misaimed scumhunting and scummy town-pushing.

inHim's vote progression looks town to me.

I don't buy the idea that Karma and Monkey would be scum together. It's actually very rare that you see scum coördinating like that, especially early on. I think Karma looks quite townie actually, with willingness to change mind etc. Monkey looks OK to me.. he was trying to progress the game with not much to go on. The flaking is apparently sitewide. Let's hear his replacement.

I have a bigger issue though guys: why are we on page 7 and apparently thinking about lynching someone for making a weak case on page 3?

---

I also think it would be great if we could somehow force people to contribute more. But I don't know how we do that given that y'all seem totally unwilling to lynch people for lack of involvement. Suggestions? Lynching muh sounds good to me.

[VasudeVa]

I have a bigger issue though guys: why are we on page 7 and apparently thinking about lynching someone for making a weak case on page 3?

Because Monkey is the scummiest, and he isn't around to reply to all the scrutiny. His replacement is soon to come though. I fully expect everyone to start posty as soon as probLynch replacement comes around. All this lurking is inexcusable.

Also, muh is reads as town.

[petroleumjelly]

Starbuck replaces MonkeyMan576, effective immediately.