Open 578: Fire and Ice Mafia [Game Over]

[Luca Blight]

Also - you are completely ignoring what was a blatantly scummy act by CoolDog in voting me, when a House vote would have made much more sense from him, given his reads throughout this game. His reason for voting me was also suspect.

Cheets, you are completely ignoring everything in this game that doesn't involve finding reasons to scumread me. You don't care what is going on as long as I'm lynched. I hope other people are seeing this.

I had every right to call CoolDog out on that vote, and once again Cheets ignores CD and uses my questioning of it to try and make me look scummy again, by making out I just scumread anyone who votes me, which is a misrep.

Cheets, you have completely lost it. You are scum.

[Egg]

Vote: CoolDog

The more I think about that vote, the less I think it's anything other than opportunistic scum.

House is pretty much right about sorting Luca and Cheet. I can't see them being scum together and that doesn't even mean one of them is scum. So 1-2 scum in CoolDog, House, and TSQ. I feel like House is probably town. Luca/CoolDog makes no sense right now. So CoolDog with either TSQ or Cheet?

Luca/House, do you think TSQ/Cheet makes any sense? That's the only way I can see CoolDog being town personally, but even that means he made that Luca vote as town which doesn't seem likely.

please remember the colon

[Luca Blight]

That vote from CoolDog was opportunistic and scummy.

What do you think about Cheets not only ignoring said vote, but using my questioning of it to try and paint me as scummy?

Cheets has to be scum, in my opinion. TSQ is probably Town. I will consider a CoolDog vote - it is hard to see that vote coming from Town, it literally made no sense.

[Luca Blight]

@Mod: TSQ hasn't posted in nearly a week - I assume he will be getting replaced?

It is a bit shit needing to get a replacement at this late stage in the game.

[Cheetory6]

I just scumread anyone who votes me, which is a misrep.

Who's voted for you that you haven't found scummy? Who's expressed a clear scumread on you that you in turn haven't called scum? Every time I brought it up, you started questioning my alignment again, and when I dropped it, you were totally fine with me.

For the benefit of the others, the other thing was Cheets saying I am scum because I said I scumread House throughout the game - not only was this not true, but House actually WAS guilty of doing this with me, but Cheets ignored that as well.

Lol? The other thing. Implying I don't have anything else that I'm scumreading you for?
Further, I openly established that I don't universally scumread people for the same behaviors, and that I openly admitted that I misunderstood what you'd said, but still clarified that I still found it scummy that you rushed into D4 with a scumread on House without indicating any kind of interest in TSQ anymore. Something that I'd seen you do before with Om/guille that I felt was based on something you must have been talking about with your scummate.

I will give you one thing, the only doubt that I have at this point is the consistency with which you push back so fucking hard on anyone that pushes you. I find it hard to fathom why you would so aggressively apply the same scumtactics over and over and over and over again. I really wish I had better scum-meta to check on you for this, but there's not much to work with here and it just makes too much sense in my head that you're scum for me to ignore my feelings on this just for one logical reason that might just be based around your scum meta.

P-Edit: It's not that you questioned it, it's that you automatically scumread him so reflexively for it. Much in the same way you reflexively scumread House and I for pushing you.
I won't try and argue that it's weird that CoolDog is voting you and not House, but bad play =/= scum and he may have just been voting who he thought had a better chance of being lynched. In my head it just makes so much more sense that you're pushing a scumread on CoolDog because it's the easiest thing to do. You only voted for me once House had expressed that he was townreading you. If anything your votes read carefully opportunistic to me.

Whatever. I'm probably confbiasing some stuff and in all likelihood am possibly wrong on some things, but I still strongly believe Luca is scum even if I've been wrong about the details along the way.

[House]

Vote CoolDog

The more I think about that vote, the less I think it's anything other than opportunistic scum.

House is pretty much right about sorting Luca and Cheet. I can't see them being scum together and that doesn't even mean one of them is scum. So 1-2 scum in CoolDog, House, and TSQ. I feel like House is probably town. Luca/CoolDog makes no sense right now. So CoolDog with either TSQ or Cheet?

Luca/House, do you think TSQ/Cheet makes any sense? That's the only way I can see CoolDog being town personally, but even that means he made that Luca vote as town which doesn't seem likely.

I've been scumreading TSQ's slot since the Flum days, so I can go for a CD/TSQ ticket. Pretty sure I suggested as much on D1, actually. It would be hilarious if that turned out to be the scum team. Although if it was, I'd have likely been NK'ed, so nvm.

[Luca Blight]

I just scumread anyone who votes me, which is a misrep.

Who's voted for you that you haven't found scummy? Who's expressed a clear scumread on you that you in turn haven't called scum? Every time I brought it up, you started questioning my alignment again, and when I dropped it, you were totally fine with me.

Does it matter if I've scumread people who have voted for me? I have given clear and valid reasons for every scumread this game, and have scumread people who haven't voted me as well.

Obviously if someone is pushing against me, I am going to try and work out if they are doing it from a Town or scum perspective. Until today I've considered you misguided Town, but that is no longer the case.

For the benefit of the others, the other thing was Cheets saying I am scum because I said I scumread House throughout the game - not only was this not true, but House actually WAS guilty of doing this with me, but Cheets ignored that as well.

Lol? The other thing. Implying I don't have anything else that I'm scumreading you for?
Further, I openly established that I don't universally scumread people for the same behaviors, and that I openly admitted that I misunderstood what you'd said, but still clarified that I still found it scummy that you rushed into D4 with a scumread on House without indicating any kind of interest in TSQ anymore. Something that I'd seen you do before with Om/guille that I felt was based on something you must have been talking about with your scummate.

I will give you one thing, the only doubt that I have at this point is the consistency with which you push back so fucking hard on anyone that pushes you. I find it hard to fathom why you would so aggressively apply the same scumtactics over and over and over and over again. I really wish I had better scum-meta to check on you for this, but there's not much to work with here and it just makes too much sense in my head that you're scum for me to ignore my feelings on this just for one logical reason that might just be based around your scum meta.

P-Edit: It's not that you questioned it, it's that you automatically scumread him so reflexively for it. Much in the same way you reflexively scumread House and I for pushing you.
I won't try and argue that it's weird that CoolDog is voting you and not House, but bad play =/= scum and he may have just been voting who he thought had a better chance of being lynched. In my head it just makes so much more sense that you're pushing a scumread on CoolDog because it's the easiest thing to do. You only voted for me once House had expressed that he was townreading you. If anything your votes read carefully opportunistic to me.

Whatever. I'm probably confbiasing some stuff and in all likelihood am possibly wrong on some things, but I still strongly believe Luca is scum even if I've been wrong about the details along the way.

The other thing, as in the other thing you have scumread me for, which I didn't do, while ignoring House who actually did do the thing you were scumreading me for. I thought I made this pretty clear in my post. Maybe if you didn't resort to chopping up my posts so you only reply to stuff that suits your argument, you would have seen that.

Further - I know you said that, I was just pointing it out for the benefit of the other, as I said.

Re p;edit;

I didn't 'automatically scumread him for it' - are deliberately misrepping me or what? I could have automatically scumread him for it and been justified in doing so as it was such a scummy act in itself, but if you read my post you would see that I was in a dilemma about which of House and CD was scum with you. Egg also noticed how scummy that vote was, so I'm not alone there.

ONCE AGAIN - I did not automatically scumread you and House for scumreading me - I'm starting to think you are not even reading my posts, because I keep saying this - You have scumread me virtually ALL GAME - I have only scumread you TODAY - this is not 'reflexively scumreading' you'. With House - he is the one who 'reflexively' scumread ME for scumreading him - not the other way around. Either stop lying, or if you are genuinely mistaken then read my fucking posts properly, as it boils my blood reading the same old untruths again and again.

If you agreed that CoolDog's vote was weird then why not pull him up on it? Why continue to tunnel me instead?

Why do you scumread me for apparently not having consistent reads with Om, when CoolDog has just done this in the most blatant fashion imaginable here?


....



I don't want to tunnel Cheets because that would make me no better than him....CoolDog/TSQ would actually make sense because CoolDog acted badly to me saying I was considering hammering TSQ at the end of Day 3.

Maybe CoolDog was waiting for TSQ to post before voting...and then just kind of hoped my wagon would stay at L-1 until TSQ came back, so chucked a vote in there?

I think CoolDog would have pestered the mod to get him replaced a bit earlier if that was the case, though.. I also am having a hard time seeing Cheets as Town right now.

[House]

I think the last part of your post is confbias, Luca.

Other than that, interesting perspective.

[Luca Blight]

In fact, there is no way Cheets could be genuinely mistaken - there is no possible way he could think I am scumreading House for scumreading me, when my scumread came first on both day 1 and today, and I have pointed this out on a number of occasions.

He really is continually lying to try and get me lynched.

[Cheetory6]

I have only scumread you TODAY

So D1 wasn't a thing then? Pretty sure you voted me then.

I didn't 'automatically scumread him for it' - are deliberately misrepping me or what?

I can't logically see how Town CoolDog could make that vote - it has left me nearly speechless.

This is pretty clearly an implied scumread. Even if you're not outright saying "CoolDog is scum", you're clearly implying that scum is between House, CD and myself, which might as well be a scumread.

If you agreed that CoolDog's vote was weird then why not pull him up on it?

Because I felt like two people prodding him about it was enough? Do you need a third person to ask a question to get the answer for it?

Why do you scumread me for apparently not having consistent reads with Om, when CoolDog has just done this in the most blatant fashion imaginable here?

He didn't do it coming out of a night cycle and his read on House is still consistent? I don't know what you're trying to say here.

If two people who aren't Luca tell me they think I'm confbiasing at this point, I'll drop it and try to find the other scum.

P-Edit:

there is no possible way he could think I am scumreading House for scumreading me, when my scumread came first on both day 1 and today, and I have pointed this out on a number of occasions

Your push on House was halfhearted until he voted for you in my eyes. Feels like you really kicked it into gear the moment he also voted for you.

[Cheetory6]

It's like your saying that I'm saying "every scumread Luca has ever had has only been people who have scumread him"
when I'm actually saying "every person who has scumread Luca has also been scumread by Luca."
Don't really understand how the latter statement isn't true and I do see a pattern of you increasing your interest/pushes on people the moment they become a threat to you.

[Luca Blight]

I have only scumread you TODAY

So D1 wasn't a thing then? Pretty sure you voted me then.

I didn't 'automatically scumread him for it' - are deliberately misrepping me or what?

I can't logically see how Town CoolDog could make that vote - it has left me nearly speechless.

This is pretty clearly an implied scumread. Even if you're not outright saying "CoolDog is scum", you're clearly implying that scum is between House, CD and myself, which might as well be a scumread.

If you agreed that CoolDog's vote was weird then why not pull him up on it?

Because I felt like two people prodding him about it was enough? Do you need a third person to ask a question to get the answer for it?

Why do you scumread me for apparently not having consistent reads with Om, when CoolDog has just done this in the most blatant fashion imaginable here?

He didn't do it coming out of a night cycle and his read on House is still consistent? I don't know what you're trying to say here.

If two people who aren't Luca tell me they think I'm confbiasing at this point, I'll drop it and try to find the other scum.

P-Edit:

there is no possible way he could think I am scumreading House for scumreading me, when my scumread came first on both day 1 and today, and I have pointed this out on a number of occasions

Your push on House was halfhearted until he voted for you in my eyes. Feels like you really kicked it into gear the moment he also voted for you.

1) Day 1 was more a vote in anger than a genuine scumread - I didn't understand why you were tunneling as you were, but as I said I thought you were misguided Town, hence why I moved on - despite you continually attempting to prolong the anti-town argument.

2) You're making out as if I just said 'CoolDog must be scum because he voted me', or something. If you take that comment in the context the post provided, you will see it was not a 'reflexive scumread' - hence why I didn't just vote him straight away, as I would have been justified in doing.

3) I feel it is pretty important to know where you stand on an issue like that, yes. You have scumread me for not laying down everything I've thought with regards to Om, yet you don't feel the need to comment on such an important thing as a 'weird' L-1 vote in MYLO? You indirectly supported CoolDog by continuing to tunnel on me instead, and using MY questioning of the 'weird' vote to paint me as scummy.

4) Until that vote he hadn't contributed anything today, so essentially he had 'just come out of a night cycle'. I think it's pretty clear what I'm trying to say - His vote isn't consistent with his reads throughout this game - and his reason for voting me did not justify someone he hasn't scumread at all this game, to someone he has scumread ALL game, including now. Do you understand now?

5) I was already voting House when he voted me, and his voting of me only added fuel to the fire, for reasons I won't go into again because it has been done to the death. You're not still trying to argue I 'reflexively scumread' House? Or are you?

[Luca Blight]

It's like your saying that I'm saying "every scumread Luca has ever had has only been people who have scumread him"
when I'm actually saying "every person who has scumread Luca has also been scumread by Luca."
Don't really understand how the latter statement isn't true and I do see a pattern of you increasing your interest/pushes on people the moment they become a threat to you.

1) It doesn't matter if I scumread people who have scumread me - it would if that was the only reason I gave, but the fact I have given valid reasoning every time renders your point irrelevant.

2) You tried to make out I 'reflexively scumread' you and House - This is a lie.

[Cheetory6]

but the fact I have given valid reasoning every time renders your point irrelevant.

It's not like you can't be lying about this. Don't know why you're expecting me to take your word for granted on this when it clearly looks to me like you're trying to push scumreads off of you.

2) You tried to make out I 'reflexively scumread' you and House - This is a lie.

For me:
Certainly looked like it on D1.
Certainly looked like it this day cycle.

For House:
You started hardpushing myself and House as scum after we both voted you. Yes, you didn't immediately start voting for House simply based on this premise, but I more just find it questionable that the intensity of the scumreads you have becomes magnified intensely the moment that someone votes for you.

but as I said I thought you were misguided Town, hence why I moved on

No-one is interested in lynching Cheety, and he isn't my biggest scumread despite him lying in the argument. I'd rather lynch Om but no-one seems interested in that, either. House is a decent shout for a lynch. I will explain why I think this in a bit.

You are emotional about this, and maybe I have been too in this argument, but even I can see this is going nowhere. You can suspect me, fine, just as I will continue to

suspect you

, but you are tunneling right now and it is anti-town.

To me, it looks like you didn't say that I was just misguided town, especially not in the posts after you change your vote. Can you provide an example of you actually saying that you thought this? Cause I'm really not seeing it.

You indirectly supported CoolDog by continuing to tunnel on me instead, and using MY questioning of the 'weird' vote to paint me as scummy.

And upon being asked about it, I clarified with a direct position on the matter that was consistent with me not thinking it's scummy. It's not that you questioned it, it's that you immediately started posturing that CoolDog simply could not possibly have any kind of reasoning that could make him be town and do that.

[House]

Cheetory, who is scum with Luca?

Luca, if I flip town, who is scum with Cheetory?

[Cheetory6]

Have to go V/LA.
Forgot about family roadtrip and probably won't have any access to a computer until around the 23rd/24th.

[Cheetory6]

Zzzz.
UNVOTE: Luca

[tn5421]

Official Vote Count 4.6

CooLDoG

(2): House, Egg

Luca Blight

(1): CooLDoG

Cheetory6

(1): Luca Blight

Not Voting

(2): Thestatusquo, Cheetory6

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-12-25 23:45:00)

Will seek replacement for TSQ

[Egg]

Luca, you could be right on Cheet. My problem, though, is that you are only looking at that side of it. Do you not see that he could be town who is dealing with confirmation bias? So sure he has you pegged that you can't change his mind. Both of those things are entirely possible. Tunneling comes from both sides. Can you explain to me why this is scum tunneling as opposed to town tunneling?

Vote CoolDog

The more I think about that vote, the less I think it's anything other than opportunistic scum.

House is pretty much right about sorting Luca and Cheet. I can't see them being scum together and that doesn't even mean one of them is scum. So 1-2 scum in CoolDog, House, and TSQ. I feel like House is probably town. Luca/CoolDog makes no sense right now. So CoolDog with either TSQ or Cheet?

Luca/House, do you think TSQ/Cheet makes any sense? That's the only way I can see CoolDog being town personally, but even that means he made that Luca vote as town which doesn't seem likely.

I've been scumreading TSQ's slot since the Flum days, so I can go for a CD/TSQ ticket. Pretty sure I suggested as much on D1, actually. It would be hilarious if that turned out to be the scum team. Although if it was, I'd have likely been NK'ed, so nvm.

Eh, I could see them keeping you alive as lynchbait even if you had them pegged. People were pretty gung ho about lynching you at a few points in the game.

[tn5421]

Pine replaces Thestatusquo effective immediately.

[House]

Welcome, Pine!

[Pine]

Sup

Who's scum

[House]

Sup

Who's scum

You and CD.

[Luca Blight]

Egg - I have given Cheets the benefit of the doubt all game despite his tunneling on me - I put it down to confirmation bias, and had him as misguided Town, but I don't think his behaviour today makes sense from a Town perspective - and trust me I've tried to see it from that perspective.

I'm considering voting CoolDog but I want to get Pine's take on things first.

[Pine]

I'm playing marathons today. When is deadline?