Open 90 - Trendy and Subversive C9 Mafia Wins! before 656

[Azrael001]

I was about to suggest that we have the cop claim, but then I remembered the role blocker. Should we hit the role blocker today, I think that tomorrow the cop should claim.

[iamausername]

Well, that's less vague. Excellent.

Do you disagree with the points I raised in your defense?

[Mirth]

When I am scum, I often defend those that I know to be innocent, for two reasons. Firstly, if they get lynched I will have been proven right, and this will reduce suspicion from me. Second, if I get lynched and am proven to be scum, it will look as though I am partnering up with the innocent one and may get them lynched. This is what I think that iamausername is doing. As such

Wow, way to softclaim townie here. This post bothers me soooooo soooooo much. We don't know if you're innocent. Don't claim it.

You also win scum points for even thinking about asking the cop to claim day 1 with no results. We don't even know if we have a cop, so this may be a moot point. There is absolutely

NO

reason for a cop, if there be one, to claim anything at all unless they have a guilty. My vote is very very happy where it is.

[Azrael001]

I see, it's cop OR nurse and doctor OR Deputy. Yeah I guess we don't want to risk that.

My thinking was this: If the cop claims an no one counters that, we have one confirmed townie. The doctor (who I assumed existed) would protect him. We would then have the results of all of his investigations following. Essentially having an invincible cop right up until the doctor dies.

Should two people claim cop, we would then have one guaranteed scum. We then have a 50% chance of guessing right instead of a 14% chance of guessing right (barring all other circumstances). Even if we guess wrong we will then have a guaranteed scum the next day...

Of course this is a moot point as we may or may not have both a cop and a doctor.

@Iam I don't disagree with you, I just think that defending people is something that only someone with extra knowledge can safely do. Currently only the mob has knowledge of who is and isn't scum. Defending someone once is probably fine, but twice (or more) sets off warning bells for me.

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy. I don't get scum vibes from them so I am not voting for them.

Wow, way to softclaim townie here. This post bothers me soooooo soooooo much. We don't know if you're innocent. Don't claim it.

Is the default claim not regular townie? Are we not all trying to convince everyone else that that is what we are?

Also, it is foolish to defend a team mate as

[Azrael001]

... That last part of the last post was not finished.

...as it tends to show pairing, which is bad (for them, not the town.)

I would assume that most people know this.

[iamausername]

Should two people claim cop, we would then have one guaranteed scum. We then have a 50% chance of guessing right instead of a

14%

chance of guessing right (barring all other circumstances). Even if we guess wrong we will then have a guaranteed scum the next day...

28%. Two in seven, not one in seven.

@Iam I don't disagree with you, I just think that defending people is something that only someone with extra knowledge can safely do.

Well, if I see a flawed argument, I'm going to point out the flaws in it, no matter who it's addressed to.

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy. I don't get scum vibes from them so I am not voting for them.

W-W-W-W-WIFOM!! This could be a calculated move to make yourself appear more townie, and looks moreso for you pointing out how townie it makes you look.
If you were scum, you could have set either Mirth or retro up to be hammered, yes, but you'd be under heavy scrutiny tomorrow when they turned up town (assuming you'd go for the one who wasn't your buddy if one of them was).

Is the default claim not regular townie? Are we not all trying to convince everyone else that that is what we are?

The default claim is "town" with no indication of whether you're a power role or not.

[Mirth]

I see, it's cop OR nurse and doctor OR Deputy. Yeah I guess we don't want to risk that.

My thinking was this: If the cop claims an no one counters that, we have one confirmed townie. The doctor (who I assumed existed) would protect him. We would then have the results of all of his investigations following. Essentially having an invincible cop right up until the doctor dies.

Should two people claim cop, we would then have one guaranteed scum. We then have a 50% chance of guessing right instead of a 14% chance of guessing right (barring all other circumstances). Even if we guess wrong we will then have a guaranteed scum the next day...

Of course this is a moot point as we may or may not have both a cop and a doctor.

@Iam I don't disagree with you, I just think that defending people is something that only someone with extra knowledge can safely do. Currently only the mob has knowledge of who is and isn't scum. Defending someone once is probably fine, but twice (or more) sets off warning bells for me.

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy. I don't get scum vibes from them so I am not voting for them.

Wow, way to softclaim townie here. This post bothers me soooooo soooooo much. We don't know if you're innocent. Don't claim it.

Is the default claim not regular townie? Are we not all trying to convince everyone else that that is what we are?

Also, it is foolish to defend a team mate as

First of all, cop claiming D1 with no results is the stupidest thing ever. Really. If you are ever a cop in any game, please, please, please NEVER claim Day1 unless you are about to be lynched. Outing a powerrole to get a "confirmed" townie is not good. That powerrole might not even exist, and might out others. So this sounds like blatant role-fishing to me.

Townie is the default claim, but you have absolutely no reason to claim it until you are at L-1. Therefor your soft claim of "i'm so protown" is suspicous,

[retrowiz]

I see, it's cop OR nurse and doctor OR Deputy. Yeah I guess we don't want to risk that.

My thinking was this: If the cop claims an no one counters that, we have one confirmed townie. The doctor (who I assumed existed) would protect him. We would then have the results of all of his investigations following. Essentially having an invincible cop right up until the doctor dies.

Should two people claim cop, we would then have one guaranteed scum. We then have a 50% chance of guessing right instead of a 14% chance of guessing right (barring all other circumstances). Even if we guess wrong we will then have a guaranteed scum the next day...

Of course this is a moot point as we may or may not have both a cop and a doctor.

@Iam I don't disagree with you, I just think that defending people is something that only someone with extra knowledge can safely do. Currently only the mob has knowledge of who is and isn't scum. Defending someone once is probably fine, but twice (or more) sets off warning bells for me.

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy. I don't get scum vibes from them so I am not voting for them.

Wow, way to softclaim townie here. This post bothers me soooooo soooooo much. We don't know if you're innocent. Don't claim it.

Is the default claim not regular townie? Are we not all trying to convince everyone else that that is what we are?

Also, it is foolish to defend a team mate as

First of all, cop claiming D1 with no results is the stupidest thing ever. Really. If you are ever a cop in any game, please, please, please NEVER claim Day1 unless you are about to be lynched. Outing a powerrole to get a "confirmed" townie is not good. That powerrole might not even exist, and might out others. So this sounds like blatant role-fishing to me.

Townie is the default claim, but you have absolutely no reason to claim it until you are at L-1. Therefor your soft claim of "i'm so protown" is suspicous,

even l-1 day one I'd fight claiming it for awhile. Other wise, your banking on a doctor being present that night right?

[retrowiz]

unvote. Vote:AZ

for me I just dont like the comment for cop claiming coming out of nowhere..sure the concept is whacked out, but I just dont see where the train of thought appeared from.

[farside22]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

[Azrael001]

Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.

I am not. There is a role blocker and we may not have a doctor. I was about to suggest it when I realized that the role blocker would get him/ her. I am of the opinion that an early out is better than a late one as the mafia has more to lose and is less likely to try to claim the role themselves. Also having a confirmed innocent makes things much clearer for everyone.

I had anticipated someone using the WIFOM argument against me, but there isn't much I can say against it. Lynching me might make things more clear.

Also, I would contend that vanilla townie is what it is that

everyone

is trying to convince everyone else that they are. Should the mob believe that one is a power role then they are more that person is much more likely to be killed.

It should be noted that rather than consider the possibility that I might be the doctor trying to find the cop (I am not) there were those that immediately attacked me. I am getting more and more inclined to ignore Strife's rabid attacks, as they target everyone, and therefore (to me at least) seem ineffective.

I applaud your (claimed) honesty Iam, it is much better playing with people like you. I think that I am better able to read such people as I am so similar myself (Believe what you will). I will always say what I think, regardless of whether or not I have anything to back it up. This causes me too appear guilty to almost everyone. There was a time when this was not the case, but alas my play style has evolved.

you could have set either Mirth or retro up to be hammered, yes, but you'd be under heavy scrutiny tomorrow when they turned up town (assuming you'd go for the one who wasn't your buddy if one of them was).

I would think that being one of four people voting would not put me under that much pressure, especially if I was voting in as indecisive a spot as third. Also, I am often tempted to start votes against my slightly suspected teammates in anticipation of the end game.

[sekinj]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

retro not responding to me, or any other arguments effectively was another reason I voted for him.

[strife220]

Only having 7 players in the game is not nearly 'scary' enough to warrant such extreme language.

You joined the site when newbie games were still seven players, so you've played them before, so how can you say how 'scary' it is for those of us who haven't? I'm finding it a little hard to adjust to myself, so I don't see any reason to doubt retro's sincerity in that comment.

It shouldn't be 'scary' because regardless of how many players start off, having 7 alive is nothing compared to having 3, 4, or 5 players alive. It's the same as playing a 9 player game with a d1 mislynch. Town is still over double the scum population.

If I was used to playing with 7 players off the beginning, and we started the game with 9, I wouldn't say 'oh wow... 9 alive... this is a breeze - we can mislynch d1 and still be golden!'

BTW, don't talk about your protown vibes please.

I don't think it's a bad thing to do in this size of game.

Disagree. I think endgame and before a potential lynch is the only appropriate time to talk about 'pro-town vibes.' At this stage of the game, knowing who people feel is pro-town just gives scum more knowledge on who to NK.

Just to speak general mafia philosophy for a second,


Az's talk of cops bewilders me. But I do agree with him that even power roles should be trying to appear as vanilla townies - i.e. 'softclaiming' vanilla when you're cop is okay in my books.


*and... caught up*
We're in desperate need of a votecount.

[strife220]

ebwop:

MOD

please put the deadline into the game title.

[Mirth]

I'm going to be completely without game access until Monday. I need to leave for a funeral. I apologize for the inconvenience to you all.

[Greasy Spot]

Day 1 Vote Count:

Azrael001 (2) (Mirth, retrowiz)
retrowiz (2) (strife220, sekinj)
Mirth (1) (iamausername)
iamausername (1) (Azrael001)

Not Voting: farside22

7 Alive = 4 votes needed to Lynch

Deadline: September 6, 10:00 AM EST

Deadline Clock

[farside22]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

retro not responding to me, or any other arguments effectively was another reason I voted for him.

What did he not answer? Or are you saying his answers were lacking? I'm confused.
Iamausername do you think Az lastest comment isn't disconcerning in the least? You seem to be the only one really defending him.
Mirth: I honestly never know what to say to a person going to a funeral.

[sekinj]

I just found this in my purusing.

sekinj : Post 24: Why did you think Strife's vote was random? Mostly good comments stated. Very thoughtful on what is going on in the game.

here is my original quote:

Strife: Was you vote on retro random or serious? i thought it was serious since you said the random stuff wasn't going anywhere. But your later questioning of mirth's suspicions make me think you thougt you were being random.

@far: I didn't think strife's vote was random. It seems serious, but it was on page 1, so I was asking for clarification from Strife.

Here is the vote I was referencing:

Well this random voting stage isn't going anywhere fast.

Obligatory

Unvote, Vote: Retrowiz

for putting a player L-2 on page 1! Sure fire lynch here; this tell is never wrong.

He later said that he was obviously joking...

[sekinj]

@far re:Retro - His play is just bad. His posts do not include content. I will go back and take a closer look at him in isolation, but what I am seeing so far is just useless comments, stealing other people's arguements, petty personal attacks, and no follow-up... maybe I'm being blinded by noobiness, but where is the analysis and comrehension??

[strife220]

Day 1 Vote Count:

Azrael001 (2) (Mirth, retrowiz)
retrowiz (2) (strife220, sekinj)
Mirth (1) (iamausername)
iamausername (1) (Azrael001)

Not Voting: farside22

7 Alive = 4 votes needed to Lynch

Deadline: September 6, 10:00 AM EST

Deadline Clock

Deadline in about 30 hours; we need a lynch.
Farside: please vote one of the players currently being voted for. If you vote Az, I'll switch over for the hammer (as opposed to no-lynch). If you vote retro, I'm sure someone will step in for the necessary hammer. If you vote Mirth or IAUN, I hope you provide enough reasoning to motivate people to join you.

[farside22]

I think Az is the scummiest. Mirth and Retro are about even for different reason's. If Az turns scum I will be looking at Iam.

vote: Azrael001

[strife220]

K. I'm hammering Az after others get a say in

[retrowiz]

Not really much to say today. hard to supply analysis and compresension in day one. but AZ comment about cop claim just seems way too messed up to ignore.

[iamausername]

Iamausername do you think Az lastest comment isn't disconcerning in the least? You seem to be the only one really defending him.

By that, I assume you mean his comments about the cop claiming? I don't see any advantage to be gained for scum by saying "Hey, I was thinking the cop should come out, but then I realised that's a bad idea." It's something he probably should have kept to himself, but I don't think it's overwhelming evidence against him.

I'm a lot more bothered by this:

Besides, if I was scum why would I vote for someone who has no votes? Mirth or retrowiz would be much better targets, setting them up for a hammer would be easy.

When he made his vote, I was thinking he looked more pro-town for it, for pretty mush the reasons he states here, but when he immediately followed it up with this post, it seemed more like he deliberately chose a less popular target for his vote just so he could say this and "prove" he isn't scum.

Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.

What interaction was this?

I would think that being one of four people voting would not put me under that much pressure, especially if I was voting in as indecisive a spot as third.

What makes you think third vote is an 'indecisive' spot? Common knowledge seems to suggest the exact opposite, actually (see here)

It's the same as playing a 9 player game with a d1 mislynch.

No, it really isn't. In that game, you've got a whole day's worth of voting patterns and so on to analyse that we didn't have when this game started.

[farside22]

farside wrote:
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.


What interaction was this?

Just mostly the fact that I felt and still feel Mirth was ignoring you and what you said and focusing more on others. You would say something that someone else stated and she just glossed over your comment, but attacked others.