Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Kublai Khan]

I'm going to agree with you that the alignment cop sorta points to a SK (maybe tratior) Although part of me is also thinking that it could just be standard boilerplate.

I'm thinking it's more of a mod mind-fuck. Like having a Mafia Strongman in a game with no protective roles. Or a Town Universal Backup in a game with no power roles.

Unrelated,

My town-tell on rosterfoster dissolved. So..

VOTE: rosterfoster

[popsofctown]

You can't be serious

[Kublai Khan]

You can't be serious

I am. Why shouldn't I be?

[rosterfoster]

Mind telling me what the town tell is so I can use it in future scum games? <3

[Kublai Khan]

Mind telling me what the town tell is so I can use it in future scum games? <3

You had a super-secret reason for calling Montosh 100% town. You were so certain that I thought it might be an informed read. But now it's nothing. So without that town-tell, I'm back to scum-reading you.

[Not Known 15]

Vote Count 3.2

ofrhz(4)nomnomnom,Jesus Louisus,Montosh,LuckyOtter,

Montosh(2)Nero Cain,rosterfoster,

LuckyOtter(2)Kirari Momobami,popsofctown,

BodhiSmith13

DeasVail(2)Alchemist21,Vorkuta,

Not Voting(1)DeasVail,

rosterfoster(1)Kublai Khan,

HeWhoSwims

nomnomnom(1)ofrhz,

Jesus Louisus(0)

Vorkuta(0)

Saudade

Lil Uzi Vert

popsofctown(0)

EvilDeanius

Eyes without a face(0)

Alchemist21(0)

Nero Cain(0)

Kublai Khan(0)

Kirari Momobami(0)

No Lynch(0)

With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch.

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2019-07-11 13:10:00) or when a lynch has been achieved.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: ofrhz

[DeasVail]

DeasVail -- between the DV/LO 1v1 I think I'd do LO first since I liked DV's reads early game, but that feeling has waned a bit. I don't like 708 as much as I did on day 1 since he paired me with creature which is the kind of "let's put my scum townread with a town in case I flip so it's not obvious" thing you see from scum a lot, also so much of the iso is irt LO I'm kinda... hmm

oh by the way for what it's worth the reason I paired you with Creature was because you had both claimed/soft-claimed stuff and my plan was to wait for further info before considering either of you as scum.

--

As for where I'm at from a quick glance through,

Town: Pops, Kublai, roster, Alch
Less Town: Nero Cain, Kirari, ofrhz
Less Scum: Montosh, nomnom, Jesus
Scum: Vorkuta, Otter

My first thought is that I kinda townread the twilight posting from Kirari and ofrhz?
In the case of Kirari, the vote on Red after he was obviously hammered is pretty weird from scum and seems more jokey than anything else.
And with ofrhz, my expectation is that she would realise her buddy was hammered and avoid doing some weird waffly pseudo-defense.
Buttt I'm going to think these through more when I'm not about to sleep because my usual approach to townreading people has not really held up so far here.

I do generally disagree with the blanket wagon clearing also. I think that the way that someone votes a person (and the situation) can be pretty town-indicative, but the Creature wagon in particular is not something I believe scum would have necessarily avoided. In particular my Vorkuta concern is that they were cheerleading that wagon without actually contributing to it.

I'll be giving this more thought tomorrow morning.

Why is Jesus so low on your list? Red threw around some useless votes this game including on Creature but seemed pretty intent on getting Jesus lynched.

Jesus was there on my list mostly due to me feeling fairly mediocre about him from the first 2 days. He’s not among my top picks for scum at this point, but I don’t really think Red’s votes on him are that significant? You surely remember having an issue with Red yourself for voting Jesus after the gun comment without really reading the game, right? So why would you think Red was intent on getting Jesus lynched? It was always unlikely that Jesus was going to be lynched in favour of Niko because of the fun comment. When Red voted Jesus Day 2, I don’t think he had much reason to think the wagon would take off, and there’s always the “I didn’t read the game” excuse if he moves his vote later. If they are scum together, it seems like reasonably low-impact distancing. But again, I’d still say Jesus is more likely town than scum.

Is the skitter thing the only reason people are wanting to clear Montosh? I can see scum faking that.

Also I’m not a fan of this minimisation of reasons people may have for thinking Montosh is town, particularly since I didn’t get the impression that this was considered to be a big thing?

[nomnomnom]

Deas can I get actual reads from you? You're still not voting.

[Montosh]

Why vote when you aren't caught up?

I'm here... don't need a catch up? Like what are you on about?

and

Yeah you've got it wrong. I do legit scumread Creature. To be fair, I always scumread Creature a bit.

Hedging on Creature

makes some sense to me

That post was followed by:

THAT WAS NOT SERIOUS

[Montosh]

If Red and Montosh are scum together, why wouldn't Red just jump on the Niko wagon there?

why would he?

Keep pressure away from Creature

After niko claimed scum I think creature was under no pressure?

I don't think there was much serious pressure even before.

[Montosh]

VOTE: ofrhz

Just sheeping townreads, though not to the point where I'm voting with them since they're voting for me. Well one of them is. Nero I'm not so sure about but he's probably just irritating me. Probably not actually scum though.

Remind me who your townreads are?

nom, roster, pops and Nero. My gut wants me to townread Nero less but I think he's just annoying me rather than being scummy. I guess Vork too but I'm less sure.

[DeasVail]

Re: Montosh

Looking over their posts again I am struck by the sheer ATTITUDE of their early posting (e.g the stuff about clearly stating what parts of their posts are serious and not) and I think this is why I townread them earlier. It feels like towny frustration. It felt genuine to me when first reading through. Maybe it still does?

I’m definitely more suspicious of later posting though. The ISOing feels like looking busy without doing much in reality.

I also am concerned by this post.

Blarghh... my reads have been shit.

Ok I'll be here tonight after work.

It seems like a potentially over-negative reaction to the gamestate? 2 scum dead at this stage of the game is pretty awesome, so why the negative focus on their reads?

Yeah overall I don’t know here. Obviously there are potential town explanations for the things I’m concerned by, but the things I like could potentially be faked.

I’m leaning slightly against scum here I think, but I could be persuaded otherwise maybe?

At this point my favoured lynches are probably

Otter > Vork > Montosh/Nom/Jesus

(Still need to look at nom and Jesus properly but my guess based on previous feelings is that I won’t want to lynch either of them more than Otter/Vork)

I’m also unlikely to want to lynch anyone else (including ofrhz)

[DeasVail]

Deas can I get actual reads from you? You're still not voting.

I’ve given tentative reads and am in the process of clarifying them before I vote.

Is there a reason why me not voting is particularly significant right now?

[nomnomnom]

Deas can I get actual reads from you? You're still not voting.

I’ve given tentative reads and am in the process of clarifying them before I vote.

Is there a reason why me not voting is particularly significant right now?

I like having a mental map of where everyone is at and you're still not voting, so yeah I am bothered by that.

[popsofctown]

You can't be serious

I am. Why shouldn't I be?

Because he doesn't work very well as a partner to the flipped scum, as far as I can tell

[DeasVail]

Eh it’s closer to end of day than I thought.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

Quick look through nom confirms that I probably won’t vote for them.

The idea of a Jesus lynch at the very least wouldn’t light my fire as much as vork or Otter.

PEdit: @nom I think my posts gave a fairly clear indication on where my head was at. I could vote someone or say “I am scumreading” them and it would under a lot of circumstances achieve the same thing.

[DeasVail]

And I still don’t really think ofrhz’s twilight posting makes much sense from a buddy

[nomnomnom]

PEdit: @nom I think my posts gave a fairly clear indication on where my head was at. I could vote someone or say “I am scumreading” them and it would under a lot of circumstances achieve the same thing.

I have some trouble with long-winded posts if I'm being honest, votes are a much better representation of someone's mindset imo

[DeasVail]

Fair enough. I feel like people in general place too much importance on “votes” (and I have similar problems with RVS heh), but I think I’m fairly alone in that belief!

[popsofctown]

I care in the sense that the moderator tracks it and puts it on a spreadsheet for us, but if the mod logged your FoS's and you just voted at deadline that'd be the same to me.

[DeasVail]

Roster, apart from the hedging on Creature, was there anything that made you change your mind on him?

[DeasVail]

On Montosh

[DeasVail]

Errr Jesus why do you think Ofrhz is scum? I’m actually a bit perplexed by how you changed from scumreading Nero and alch to going with Ofrhz.

[Kublai Khan]

You can't be serious

I am. Why shouldn't I be?

Because he doesn't work very well as a partner to the flipped scum, as far as I can tell

Yeah, but RedFlavor didn't really post much connection to anyone. He mostly hopped on wagons. He even hopped on a Creature wagon. JesusLousius gets a slightly town tick, only because RedFlavor kept hopping back on him a few times.

Therefore my set of scum reads mostly stays the same: Vorkuta, DealVais, JesusLouisus. But I had ignored both rosterfoster and Montosh because I thought I read a solid towntell from rosterfoster declaring Montosh to be town with such certainty and explaining all his actions as town. I thought maybe there was a town reason. But now he's voting Montosh. It's a flip-flop that I don't understand, so I want to push in that direction.

I don't have a scumread on either ofrhz or LuckyOtter.