Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

I had a whole case written up on isis but I guess we’ll be boring and do the mech solve thing

No come on I wanna see

[Isis]

I came to this day wanting it to be long and to have stuff, so you wanting to make the day as dismissive as possible means like you're coming to this game from a different place than I am

MURDERCAT

[xofelf]

I'm feeling less good about Isis than I was before. Are we sure Exorcists were clearing Dunn? But of the rest, Gamma feels null which might just be an indication that he's problematic. I think it's just the way you play that makes me feel all sus Cat, but I don't think you're actually bad at all, you just ruffle my feathers something fierce.

I recall you TRing me D1, what changed?

You pointed out that you were scum in one of the games we played so I don't feel as confident now as I did Day 1 that how you've been interacting is how you play as town. But you're also just... pretty null in general in a way that could mean something. It's not a strong read, none of mine typically are.

[Infinity 324]

The fact that isis wants people to claim makes me not want people to. I’ll post the case in a bit, have to make sure it’s readable to anyone else lol

[MURDERCAT]

Lol at 1815

[PlusJOYED]

or i guess 2 commuters. but seems unlikely

why commuters?

-2 points left for town
-almost 100% chance we have a protective cause strongman
-rolestopper shield blocks strongman, so unlikely
cop, vig, have 3 points, thats too many
a joat would have crumbed or shot and isn't a protective
-angel isn't protective
-strongman kills commuter

that leaves: 2 commuters (each only have 5% chance to appear so unlikely), 1 commuter 1 rolestopper (unlikely to justify strongman), or healer (biggest chance)

driving home from gym ill be back in a bit

[MURDERCAT]

Is it just that you think I was guiltied or how I played?

Mostly I think you were guilted, but in this pool it's slim pickins

[Gamma Emerald]

I think with the fact Isis is claiming healer I don't want to go there
iirc healer is a 3 point role btw, so scum must have picked roles less than what they were allowed? Is that possibler?

[Isis]

Also asking for information and showing a lack of actual interest into it is a scumtell I've run into a lot, I don't think you cared about the crumb and now the way you're asking about Infinity's case seems like a similar LAMIST

[Gamma Emerald]

wait no, how did I mess that up?

[MURDERCAT]

I came to this day wanting it to be long and to have stuff, so you wanting to make the day as dismissive as possible means like you're coming to this game from a different place than I am

MURDERCAT

I mean from my POV we are pretty safe to elim you right? Like we aren't in Elo right? I'm still not sure if I want to do a massclaim or not but that Cobra post looks pretty damning.

[MURDERCAT]

I think with the fact Isis is claiming healer I don't want to go there
iirc healer is a 3 point role btw, so scum must have picked roles less than what they were allowed? Is that possibler?

Yeah healer is 2, math adds up

[MURDERCAT]

Also asking for information and showing a lack of actual interest into it is a scumtell I've run into a lot, I don't think you cared about the crumb and now the way you're asking about Infinity's case seems like a similar LAMIST

I am still considering it, what makes you think I'm not? I'm not even voting you right now.

[Gamma Emerald]

If we lim Isis and she flips healer scum get to kill PJ for free tonight

[MURDERCAT]

Like Isis you have to admit that the potential guilty makes you look pretty bad? I am happy for you to fight out of it if you are town and I'm taking in data to see if that's what's happening but my prior is like "yeah pretty likely scum"

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that's a good point gamma, but isn't it pretty likely they have strongman anyway? Otherwise wouldn't plus have just died last night?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh tru
could have been off-cycle

[Isis]

When people just say "I change my read", they usually mean they changed their read. When people say "that person smells like garlic" they are trying to crumb stuff.

It's the same stuff that happened when I played this setup offsite.

We are actually pretty fine, there are a lot of clears, and my claim doesn't clear me. I think if you don't touch Gamma, Dunnstral, or Plus it doesn't take much more to win.

I would encourage giving everyone equal chance to weigh in because it will make it easier to sort xofelf fairly

pedit: No, I really don't think it looks bad. It just looks like someone who reread the game to me.

[PlusJOYED]

I’m confused about who killed cobra, I think we massclaim?

I had a whole case written up on isis but I guess we’ll be boring and do the mech solve thing

i would say no need to massclaim

[MURDERCAT]

my claim doesn't clear me

I mean it does if we mass claim I'm just not sure if we should do that yet. The problem is I just can't see who is scum if it's not you? Like xof I feel pretty good about, but then who else? Gamma? Infinity I've been TRing the whole game

[MURDERCAT]

I want to hear from everyone for sure though, including Dunn

[PlusJOYED]

Ok maybe exorcists shot cobra. Then we have 1 other 2-power role, assuming plus is town. So healer, angel, or a fourth WH. I guess they don’t have to claim if they don’t have results, though an angel claim might help us PoE things down.

i think exorcists shot cobra. I almost shot cobra too but changed my mind. I was thinking that cobra fake crumbed start of day since there can't be 2 WH but I checked and that was wrong.

[MURDERCAT]

fake crumbed?

[PlusJOYED]

Unless we have a 4th WH:

Plus shoots Taylor
Exorcists shoot cobra
Scum kill exorcists

Not sure what cobra’s result was, but I want isis today nonetheless. Exorcists probably inno’d dunn but idk

that'd make no sense. why would they pick strongman then? they could of gotten avenger or something better for 4 joats

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, why do you feel like MURDERCAT's "style" being close to yours proves a point that he's town? Like, usually when someone's playstyle is closer to mine, I have the opposite reaction, I get paranoid that I might townread them for something that's going to be part of how they play both alignments when they might really be scum. I spent a long time townreading scum in Nightless Vanilla because of this, also with a player I was meeting for the first time.

The first thing that worried me about isis was this, she seemed to realize it didn't have anything to do with my alignment so not really sure why she brought it up? It felt like she was maybe trying to break up town synergy

Spoiler: BM/taylor opinions

My mind might change as I finish this catchup but I think the scummiest active player left to me is Battle Mage with a lot of the remaining scum equity on quieter slots like Tayl0r.

Noraa has lots of unfairly caught scum vibes, but then I keep changing my mind

I think doing something with my vote is better than nothing so I'll go VOTE: Taylor for now.

Somewhat scummy that she'd warn people her energy was going to be lower instead of waiting to get pressured since she's usually so devil may care.

I'm townreading lots of things

Much of my thinking was that his read progressions don't make sense and the way he is mentioning reads doesn't fit well into pushing a player he wants to flip and trying to get other people to vote that person too, or being suspicious of someone and asking questions of that person to figure them out. It's a lot of tossing and changing places for no reason.

Generally when he articulates reasons they make sense, but it doesn't make sense that he is where his.

Like even if you spot him good faith on whatever excuse he is going to say about Datisi, why would he say, "I would be happy flipping egotisi today" while voting me and not seeming to scumread me any less than that scumleany reason he came up with? Shouldn't you be unhappy if you don't get your first choice?

Positioning is what I had in mind.
I kind of agree that Exorcists is bleeding obvtown though, whether that is scummy would just be paranoia over whether the weird timing of it was "I just reread some isos and Exorcists' obvtown iso is screamy" or "my partners pointed out/I realized I'm not townreading many people and Exorcists probably isn't getting voted out anyways" but I don't know how you'd pick one of those over the other.
Swift and Battle mage probably aren't both scum, and Swift doesn't look great either though?

Looking back, the progression on BM/taylor here is bad and I'm not seeing a natural emotional reaction to the BM/taylor interactions. Like, she doesn't talk about BM's case on taylor at all, which is odd. Since they are two of her top scumreads, the case would be a natural thing to analyze to get alignment-relevant info. It feels like she's trying to set up mislims on one or both.

I feel better about Swift, I liked the "YAS LOOK AT ME" post, because I think she came up with it out of a genuine desire to see herself talked about which she liked in Menagerie and I think she didn't seem to like in Noir.

There are a lot of instances like this where isis seems to be looking for reasons to read people rather reading the thread than letting them come.

Battle Mage - still feel pretty good here. I almost want to indulge the poor man with his Taylor elim even though I don't really see it.
egotisi - I would be skeptical of someone willfully ignoring alignment indicative information "for honor", but I had an aha moment that Datisi did in fact do that in Autumnal. I think the spew is actually alignment indicative, but, if Gamma's posting read null to me maybe I would feel more guilty
I'm not sure how to read egotisi.

MURDERCAT

calling my vote weak broke me a little inside and makes me feel like I don't have much I can bring to bear against the slot. I don't know who posted it but someone else said they seem like they are summarizing and feel IIoAish a lot and I think that's most of it.
...
Noraa - I want to hammer this soon. It seems more like she's faking townslips than townslipping to me, which is also like, something I would say metaphorically about the way she's been playing the game, not just mechanics stuff.
I think this is a point Infinity may have made or tried to make or maybe not, but, WIFOM is part of the game, and pushing for an interpretation of play that has some amount of weakness to WIFOM is part of the game, but making WIFOM arguments without appreciating or acknowledging the wine seems to come from scum more often than town. It's something I've experienced. In theory it could help both town and scum survive, it's one of those things I feel I don't have to understand to use as a guide just because it's a pattern I've seen before. So it's scum indicative. It's not like a brightline rule that you should start every other sentence with "I know this is WIFOM but" to be allowed to post, but there's something about the attitude and presentation that can differ. I don't think this will flip VT.

Here, the SR on egotisi weakens for weak reasons. The nora SR also feels manufactured to me. Another example of looking for reasons for a read. Something I noticed here and other places is the attempt to have original reasons almost for the sake of it. If a lot of other people agree with a read, town often feels less need to justify it, whereas scum may be worried about being called out for sheeping. Similarly to BM's case on taylor, it's also very weird that she doesn't really talk about others' reasons for voting nora. (She says here that I made the WIFOM point when I didn't, and in any case it was clear that wasn't my central point against nora). Talking about "indulging" BM with him taylor elim along with...

I haven't liked any of Taylor's play after liking the "YAS LOOK AT ME" post. I can't remember very much of it and like

MURDERCAT

says that's probably bad.

seems like a made-up progression. Normally when I TR people and then forget about them I tend to keep TR'ing them unless I reread, it takes effort to question an established read. Feels like setting up a mislim on taylor.

1720, because it feels like "scum are probably lurking but I want to justify my nora vote anyway".

Now it feels like she's confbiasing on murder when she didn't seem to have a strong SR to begin with? Rather than focusing on her apparent top scumreads, me and xof.