Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over

[LuckyLuciano]

In what WORLD does town play like LL does here in LYLO?

Mini Normal Butterfly. 3v2 and I voted a player to prove they are scum because they wouldn't be hammered.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wanted to be the NK because it was TITUS' game to win or lose. She started this game. I didn't.

Maybe. But considering this game is about bananas and you're a monkey i'd say you're more than qualified to finish it.

[LuckyLuciano]

@A50, coming right up.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll be back later to see what you've come up with.

[Almost50]

A50, do you think my crumbs believing you were doctor tracing all the way back to D2 were fake? If they are legitimate, then there's no reason for you to have lived as long as you did.

If I was Mafia and I knew there was a Doctor and I assumed they'd be on the IC all the time, it would have been suboptimal for me to shoot them before I got rid of the SK. Even by day (the elimination) it would always be better for me to land it on someone else who just might be the SK instead.

So, I am leaning towards you actually believing I was Doc. It makes sense for Scum!you to defend me by day (towncred) and avoid shooting me at night (hunting for the SK)

[LuckyLuciano]

@A50, I can lay out why I voted EE if you want, but it's always EE so w/e.

I would like to see that still. It could be beneficial. Plus I promised Titus to reconsider Nowee, and I am a man of my word. I make no promises that your case would change my view, but let's hear it anyway.

These are bullet points. Let me know if you want to talk about any of them in depth.

(1) I've been wrong a lot this game, so I'm reevaluating what other players have said.
(a) Titus wanted Norwegian
(i) Titus thought you were town
(b) Cakez wanted Norwegian
(2) Norwegian's play this game is not genuine coming from town. Town wants to find mafia. They are looking for reasons why players could be mafia, and why they could be town. Norwegian is being careful not to upset either of us while also trying to direct both of us towards each other with his questions. Reread his questions this game, look at the trajectories he's trying to establish in our reads. He's not upset that I voted him, but that I'm not considering you.
(3) Titus is the only NK that allows Norwegian to win. If I die, you and Titus vote Norwegian. If you die, Titus and I vote Norwegian.
(a) If you NK Titus, you lose since, as Norwegian loves to point out, I was leaning you yesterday. If you Norwegian, you risk losing depending on how Titus sways. If you NK me, you just win. This is both the best NK for Norwegian and the worst NK for you. If I'm mafia, I'm NKing A50 and winning by voting Norwegian with Titus.
(4) Norwegian earlier said that I can't be scum if I actually thought you were doc. I've laid out all the places I hinted at believing you were doc. They ignored that because townreading me cuts off one of their paths to victory.
(5) I don't think scum!A50 is as openly hostile towards other players, suicidal, and just a plan asshole. Part of winning is making people like you. You tried your darnedest to make sure that wouldn't happen.

I can also try to town!case myself if that helps, but really this game is easy.

[LuckyLuciano]

A50, do you think my crumbs believing you were doctor tracing all the way back to D2 were fake? If they are legitimate, then there's no reason for you to have lived as long as you did.

If I was Mafia and I knew there was a Doctor and I assumed they'd be on the IC all the time, it would have been suboptimal for me to shoot them before I got rid of the SK. Even by day (the elimination) it would always be better for me to land it on someone else who just might be the SK instead.

So, I am leaning towards you actually believing I was Doc. It makes sense for Scum!you to defend me by day (towncred) and avoid shooting me at night (hunting for the SK)

Cool, so let's talk about this. Why did I hard stall the Wake wagon at L-1 when the IC was pushing for a quicklynch before I finished catching up. If I think you're doc, doesn't this allow me to eliminate the Doc while distancing myself from responsibility for the wagon?

[Almost50]

It's less about you being town and more about Norwegian being scum. The NK is the only viable option for Norwegian. Titus was scum on him. I was willing to vote either way. You were leaning towards voting me. If you die, I obviously never vote the IC and then Norwegian loses. If I die, you and Titus vote Norwegian.

Are you trying to use the WIFOM I created against me?

Nor could have killed you and used the same logic to convince Titus to vote me. Titus has a natural tendency to suspect me regardless, and Nor knows it (I think), but anyway.. that's pure WIFOM. The essence of WIFOM.

[LuckyLuciano]

Another big thing for me is that Norwegian lied about not participating in this game D2 because they were mentally exhausted. They were active for days in other games but refused to play here. They only got more active after a miselim and another night of 2 dead townies. Feels like they were demotivated after Drew died and then got motivated again when they saw they still had a chance.

Pedit: Sure. You can dismiss WIFOM as WIFOM if you want. There's still the fact that it takes more effort to convince someone with WIFOM than to just take the easy road.

[LuckyLuciano]

Has Norwegian played with you and Titus at the same time before?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re framing my disinterest in the game D2 as if it was AI?

[LuckyLuciano]

A50 is probably scum based on that wagon, but I also realize that if I dislike a person's attitude I tend to want them to be scum. A50's tone was incredibly dickish and condescending when he came into the game, so I might have been confbiasing reads onto him.

What about A50 was condescending?

Like, if my scumread of A50 is self-admittedly confbiased due to thinking he's condescending, why would Norwegian want me to go back to talking about A50 being condescending? Does he want me to reignite a confbiased push, or does he want me and A50 to get into an emotional conflict? What's the town motive for this question?

Pedit: Yes, I am. Considering you explicitly lied about why you were lurking, I am indeed doing so.

[LuckyLuciano]

Hmm. This was unexpected. I’d expect A50 to be the kill assuming scum!LL. I’m goong to have to read over the game again. Nobody place any votes yet please.

Typically when people act like they know why a player was killed or should have been killed as soon as the day goes up, they are mafia.

[LuckyLuciano]

Time for the good old LYLO paranoia to set in. I would most likely vote LL here, but i can’t completely deny the possibility of A50 having tried to pocket me either.

"Hey guys, I'm going to keep my options open and proceed to shade both players and try to instigate both players to shade each other."

[LuckyLuciano]

Also Nahdia's definitely Town. This game is easy (well, easy to scum hunt for the main team at least. If there's a SK -as was indicated by the two NKs on N1- then I am at a loss of who that might be, but still those I called TOWN already are not it.)

What were your reasons for TR’ing Nahdia here?

"Come on Lucky, let's get A50!"

[LuckyLuciano]

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

Personally I'd go for all-town (or -at leat- Mafia-free)

Oh shit.

Well other than THAT, i think A50's ISO is relatively townie and i stand by what i've said regarding him earlier.

"Gotta look like I'm solving and think A50 can be town."

You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking of No Elimination. Scum can shoot each other or can shoot town. If they both shoot town though they make the last townie as a kingmaker. If only one of then shoot town and the other shoots the opposing scum we're in a 2v1 Elo. If they both shoot each other we win.

This was quite dumb though.

"Just kidding, that makes it harder to win, doh!"

Actually, you know what? My lynch doesn't hurt the town that much. It just brings the 2-1-1 situation right now, and whichever of you doesn't kill the other loses. The only difference is you can both agree to share the win (which would be lame tbh).

So, let me help you there:

VOTE: A50

Oh and a self-vote too. A50, why do you do this? *facepalm*

"See A50, it's not

my

fault I can't townread you, please don't hold it against me and vote me, it's

your

fault."

[NorwegianboyEE]

When i said i didn’t feel well enough to play in this game it is explicitly because people insulted me in earlier days for making jokes. And that pisses me off so i’d rather be more active in more entertaining games. There was no lie except for my true motivation behind taking a break from this game in favour of others.

[Almost50]

I revisited the wagons overnight and it makes sense for Drew to be double bussed given that Norwegian was on early and Nahdia made the mistake of lingering around so she was forced into hammering or looking scummy AF for refusing to.

That part in particular threw me off. I didn't understand why Nahdia needed to be online at this precise time. It may have had to do with that other game I linked, maybe.. but I still think she could have avoided this thread, and especially so if he partner was already on the wagon (thus lynching off the wagon was fine still).

The interesting part is that your slot didn't join that wagon, and -even more interesting- both NKs were on the wagon.

The next night Umlaut (also on the wagon) was shot. Someone was hunting for the SK. If Nahdia had jumped on the wagon knowing her p was also on then it must have been to limit the pool for them to hunt for the SK, but that is certainly not a good reason to hammer your p with as little time left of the day.

[LuckyLuciano]

And THAT is one reason why I prefer Nor to win if he is not Town. He's playing the correct way (from my own PoV). JV/LL coming at me is really bad play. They should have -at least- considered each other, which they didn't. (JV for no real reason, and LL because he's trying to twist everything into a narrative that fits his agenda and is often retracting when it's made obvious he is going astray)

Yeah this points to scum!LL though.

"I'm going to reinforce A50's scumread on LL."

[LuckyLuciano]

LL, what are your thoughts on A50's: 1813?

"I'm going to reinforce LL's scumread on A50."

[LuckyLuciano]

But wouldn't LL want to kill you and capitalize on Titus scumreading me. According to yourself?

"I'm going to reinforce A50's scumread on LL."

[NorwegianboyEE]

Lol dude.

[LuckyLuciano]

Well then.
I suggested talking thinks through first LL.

"I'm not going to ask LL to unvote, because I

know

A50 isn't scum so I'm still safe. Let me shade LL for voting me."

[LuckyLuciano]

LL, that's quite the difference in attitude towards A50 from post 1796 and post 1802 yesterday.

"LL isn't allowed to change his mind. Why is he not voting A50? This is so unfair!"

[LuckyLuciano]

A50 is probably scum based on that wagon, but I also realize that if I dislike a person's attitude I tend to want them to be scum. A50's tone was incredibly dickish and condescending when he came into the game, so I might have been confbiasing reads onto him. I need to revisit a lot of topics if I'm in ELo, but I think I'm still leaning mafia on A50 preliminarily just because of the Drew wagon dynamics. I think in the case that 2 mafia were on the Drew wagon, then it would have been too easy for him to live if they just laid low.

"LL, you are supposed to be voting A50!"